Time to Break Your Chains!

Thursday, April 2, 2015

Over a year ago, I went to talk to Erik about a book idea I had. The pitch was simple: "Let us do a book filled with whatever crazy ideas we have floating around in our heads". He said "no". I said, "Wait though, allow me to explain, our crazy ideas might make the game better." He said "tell me more", and Pathfinder Unchained was born.

This book is just about to be released and it is time for us to give you a good idea of the crazy ideas you will find inside. Pathfinder Unchained is a book full of rules tweaks and alternate systems you can use to mod your game, changing the way it plays. While we suspect that everyone will find their own favorite rules subsystem, just about everyone take a long look through Chapter 1, detailing alternate versions of the barbarian, monk, rogue, and summoner. So to kick off our previews, I've asked designer Mark Seifter to give you some of the juiciest tidbits about the Unchained variant classes!

Barbarian: From a game-balance perspective, the original barbarian serves her role admirably, but her mechanics are math-intensive, forcing you to recalculate numerous values once she enters rage and keep track of a bevy of once per rage abilities. Worst of all, she's the most likely character of all to die in a fight due to the way that ending rage lowers her current hit points. The unchained barbarian keeps the adrenaline-pumping fun of her former self but significantly simplifies the gameplay by adjusting the final mechanics instead of the stats themselves. For example, she gains temporary hit points instead of raising and later decreasing her current and maximum health (woo, no more dying at the end of rage!). Finally, she gains stronger versions of some of the mechanically weakest rage powers like raging climber (now you get an actual Climb speed instead of a small bonus!).


Illustration by Michael J. Penn

Monk: The original monk has many disparate abilities. While these abilities may be useful, they don't always synergize, and they are extremely inflexible. The unchained monk loosens up, gaining ki powers that allow you to customize your monk to fit your vision, whether it be a kung fu genius or wuxia mystic (my favorites are the ones like ki visions that let you gain divination powers that affect the narrative out of combat!). The unchained monk also has a full base attack bonus, an all-new flurry of blows, and some martial arts style strikes that help him reach his true potential (my favorite is flying kick, which lets you perform a leaping kick out to a distance equal to your extra monk movement speed once per flurry—mobile combatant for the win!).

Rogue: The original rogue has plenty of skill points and a damage increase in the form of sneak attack, but she needed a way to rule her own niche, especially with all the other classes that have things like big skill bonuses and accuracy boosts. The unchained rogue has a powerful debilitation ability that dramatically alters her ability to hit or dodge her foe, rogue's edge, which allows her to do unique things with her favorite skills (figure out surface thoughts with Sense Motive, Bluff so well you bypass truth-telling magic, use Disable Device reactively to protect yourself from a triggered trap, and much more!), and a significant boost to some of her rogue talents (For instance, minor magic? Yeah, you get that cantrip at-will). She also gets Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat and the ability to add her Dexterity to weapon damage!

Summoner: The original summoner has plenty of innovative features, but he also lacks focus and theme. As Jason was fond of describing it "You just have this amorphous blob with ten tentacles and two butts." The unchained summoner gains an eidolon that fits among existing outsiders, gaining additional abilities but also focus and theme (and if you want ten tentacles and two butts, we've still got that—go protean all the way my friend!). Some of these outsiders gain some pretty juicy abilities, like the angel's protective aura (that double strength magic circle against evil/lesser globe combo) or constant true seeing. Additionally, he possesses the spell list originally intended for the summoner.

So there you have it. We are confident that some of these classes will find a home at your game table, even if the Eidolon no longer has two butts. Tune in next week when we move on to look at some of the exciting new options in the Skills and Feats chapter!

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

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Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Random (probably already been addressed) - does anyone know if PFS characters of one of the 4 re-vamped classes be able to re-train as the new versions?

I believe it was said earlier in this thread that PFS legality of all the new options is still under review.


Lol that cleric discussion.

And there totaly aren´t
-inquisitor
-oracle
-warpriest
-shaman

as other divine options that offer so much flexibility you can literaly do what you want.
If something, some of those options need to be toned down.

And rise of the players vs GM?
That seems more like rise of the narcists, who can only be topped by an even worse narcist that GM´s to me from time to time.

Silver Crusade

6 people marked this as a favorite.

The cleric has a capstone. It is this entry on the table, under the subheading "9th" under the heading "Spells Per Day:"

Quote:
4+1

That is all the capstone the cleric, or any other full caster, needs. Those who whine for more don't know what they've got.


Mark Seifter in blog wrote:
She also gets Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat and the ability to add her Dexterity to weapon damage!

Holy Moses this is getting me keen.

Now that the flood gates of Dex to Damage are beginning to open, (it can now be done with Gunslinger, Swashbuckler, Rogue if I have my sources correct) I wonder if (and dearly hope) there will be generic options to allow it for other Dex builds without requiring dipping. E.g. Dex based Fighters, Slayers, Monks etc.

I need this book now so I can find out now! Blargh!


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Random (probably already been addressed) - does anyone know if PFS characters of one of the 4 re-vamped classes be able to re-train as the new versions?

*Rubs Ryjins head and looks into the future...*

[total speculation]

You will be able to make a free one time leap onto the unchained version if you choose to do so

The barbarians, monk and rogues will live along side each other in relative peace

The old summoner will be grandfathered in, new summoners will be required to be the unchained version.

[/total speculation]

Community Manager

6 people marked this as a favorite.

Removed some posts and their replies. As others have said, the ship to make changes or additions to this book has (literally) already sailed.

Grand Lodge

Lemmy wrote:
Well... I'll gladly give the book a chance, but I certainly won't preorder it. I'd advise everyone else to do the same.

I get the hardbacks as soon as they hit the streets. Unless my wallet says "NAY!" Then I wait in the shadows, plotting.

SM


I'm really looking forward to this, and added it to my subscription to get the pdf too.

Which brings me to a slightly unrelated subject, why do we subscribers have to wait until our order is shipped for the pdf to come through? Surely you should send the link when the order goes to pending, as that's when you actually take my cash?!?

I have to wait a long time for my hard copy books to arrive here in NZ. It's really annoying seeing my order hit pending, see the cash leave my account, and still have to wait a week+ for a flipping pdf!

Grump over..

Contributor

Liz Courts wrote:
Removed some posts and their replies. As others have said, the ship to make changes or additions to this book has (literally) already sailed.

Clearly no one saw that picture of Jason on Facebook, where he's smirking as he clutching his copy of Pathfinder Unchained.

A picture that is, by the way, almost a month old at this point.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Hayato Ken wrote:

narcist

Huh?


I'm guessing he means "narcissist".


Liz Courts wrote:
Removed some posts and their replies. As others have said, the ship to make changes or additions to this book has (literally) already sailed.

You say that, but I have a couple words for you: magic marker.

Yes, I'm kidding.

But you've got to admit the mental image of Jason and the gang going through a stack of books penciling in additional/different content is a funny one, yeah?

Silver Crusade

Mythraine wrote:
Mark Seifter in blog wrote:
She also gets Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat and the ability to add her Dexterity to weapon damage!

Holy Moses this is getting me keen.

Now that the flood gates of Dex to Damage are beginning to open, (it can now be done with Gunslinger, Swashbuckler, Rogue if I have my sources correct) I wonder if (and dearly hope) there will be generic options to allow it for other Dex builds without requiring dipping. E.g. Dex based Fighters, Slayers, Monks etc.

I need this book now so I can find out now! Blargh!

You can get Dex to damage already; anyone can take Fencing Grace. It's just that the swashbuckler gets a healthy dose of the prerequisites for free (and the Inspired Blade archetype gets all of them).

Community Manager

Alexander Augunas wrote:

Clearly no one saw that picture of Jason on Facebook, where he's smirking as he clutching his copy of Pathfinder Unchained.

A picture that is, by the way, almost a month old at this point.

That book is an advance copy from the printer, and I assure you, one month would not be enough time to edit, adjust layout, re-proof, print, and ship for our hardcovers.


Renegade Paladin wrote:
Mythraine wrote:
Mark Seifter in blog wrote:
She also gets Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat and the ability to add her Dexterity to weapon damage!

Holy Moses this is getting me keen.

Now that the flood gates of Dex to Damage are beginning to open, (it can now be done with Gunslinger, Swashbuckler, Rogue if I have my sources correct) I wonder if (and dearly hope) there will be generic options to allow it for other Dex builds without requiring dipping. E.g. Dex based Fighters, Slayers, Monks etc.

I need this book now so I can find out now! Blargh!

You can get Dex to damage already; anyone can take Fencing Grace. It's just that the swashbuckler gets a healthy dose of the prerequisites for free (and the Inspired Blade archetype gets all of them).

True. And anyone can take Dervish Dance for Dex to damage as well. But that's very specific and limits it to either a rapier or scimitar and BOTH options must be one-handed with nothing in the other hand. I'm wondering if there are more generic ways that will be opened up.

We'll find out soon enough.


Fencing (and Slashing) Grace allow for a weapon in the off-hand.

With Fencing Grace + Effortless Lace you can even pull off an effective Dex-based TWF build. Or you can dip Swashbuckler/Daring Champion and use Sawtooth Sabres with Slashing Grace, but that might throw off your level scheme.


kestral287 wrote:

Fencing (and Slashing) Grace allow for a weapon in the off-hand.

With Fencing Grace + Effortless Lace you can even pull off an effective Dex-based TWF build. Or you can dip Swashbuckler/Daring Champion and use Sawtooth Sabres with Slashing Grace, but that might throw off your level scheme.

Yes I stand corrected. FG and SG do allow off hand weapons. Thanks for pointing that out.


Liz Courts wrote:
That book is an advance copy from the printer, and I assure you, one month would not be enough time to edit, adjust layout, re-proof, print, and ship for our hardcovers.

Create demiplane greater with the sped up time trait? Geeze. ;)

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Apocryphile wrote:
Surely you should send the link when the order goes to pending, as that's when you actually take my cash?!?

Because they don't take the cash until it ships. See this FAQ.


Ross Byers wrote:
Apocryphile wrote:
Surely you should send the link when the order goes to pending, as that's when you actually take my cash?!?
Because they don't take the cash until it ships. See this FAQ.

Well maybe the banks here in NZ do things differently, because my account is debited before my order moves to shipped. The funds are no longer accessible by me, i.e., I have paid for them.

I understand that Paizo may not receive my money for some time after that (I worked in Finance for over 11 years), but the point remains that I have paid. As the authorisation has been successful, the funds have been confirmed to be present, and set aside for Paizo so at that point there is no danger of them not receiving their cash.

So I ask again, why do I have to wait for the warehouse to get round to ship my order (which usually seems to be at the bottom of the stack) to be able to download my pdfs when payment for them has been set aside from my account for usually well over a week previously?

What reason is there for not allowing access to the pdfs once the order has been authorised? Payment is assured at that point. There is no risk, only goodwill, and swift delivery of goods paid for.


Anzyr wrote:
They already rewrote the Cleric. It's called the Shaman.

They also already rewrote the rogue. It's called the Investigator.

Actually, if by "they", you mean Jason Bulhman, then "they" rewrote the rogue more than a decade ago: it's called the Factotum. Still one of my favorite classes: a cunning intelligence-based fighter who is also an awesome skillmonkey.
(It's actually for 3.5, even though the store says it is for 3.0.)

Renegade Paladin wrote:
The cleric has a capstone.

I proposed a cleric capstone in the other PF Unchained thread:

Me wrote:

Fine then, let's give clerics a capstone:

Filler Capstone (Ex): At 20th level a cleric gains Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Hand Crossbow) as a bonus feat. In addition, whenever the cleric hears someone say the word "capstone", they must immediately make a will save vs DC 30 or yell "I have one of those!" as loud as they can.


Buri Reborn wrote:
Liz Courts wrote:
That book is an advance copy from the printer, and I assure you, one month would not be enough time to edit, adjust layout, re-proof, print, and ship for our hardcovers.
Create demiplane greater with the sped up time trait? Geeze. ;)

Mythic Time Stop might work better:)

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Apocryphile wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
Apocryphile wrote:
Surely you should send the link when the order goes to pending, as that's when you actually take my cash?!?
Because they don't take the cash until it ships. See this FAQ.

Well maybe the banks here in NZ do things differently, because my account is debited before my order moves to shipped. The funds are no longer accessible by me, i.e., I have paid for them.

I understand that Paizo may not receive my money for some time after that (I worked in Finance for over 11 years), but the point remains that I have paid. As the authorisation has been successful, the funds have been confirmed to be present, and set aside for Paizo so at that point there is no danger of them not receiving their cash.

So I ask again, why do I have to wait for the warehouse to get round to ship my order (which usually seems to be at the bottom of the stack) to be able to download my pdfs when payment for them has been set aside from my account for usually well over a week previously?

What reason is there for not allowing access to the pdfs once the order has been authorised? Payment is assured at that point. There is no risk, only goodwill, and swift delivery of goods paid for.

Well, having worked in finances for 11 years you surely do know that authorisations on bank accounts don't last forever. The usual expiry date is 7 days. So, consider this scenario:

April 7th: Paizo authorises your acc and gives you access to your PDFs.
April 14th: Auth expires.
April 16th: Paizo comes around to sending your order (since it's on the bottom of the stack) and charges your card, but the money isn't there any more. Maybe it's because that wasn't a credit card but a flat/pre-paid card and you spent the money on something else in the mean time, or maybe because a bailiff put an order on your account to seize overdue alimony (in most jurisdictions, bailiff seizure orders override any other authorisations and charges short of other seizure orders), or some other reason.

In either case, you have the PDFs, Paizo has nothing, and in the quite possible event that this happened because you wanted to have free stuff and get away with it, there's little short of international litigation that Paizo can do about it.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Apocryphile wrote:


What reason is there for not allowing access to the pdfs once the order has been authorised? Payment is assured at that point. There is no risk, only goodwill, and swift delivery of goods paid for.

Payment is not assured. You could cancel your order, for instance. Or the 'settlement' could fail (sure, your bank put the funds on hold, for some indeterminate amount of time, but Paizo doesn't know that. To them, it's just another Visa or MasterCard.)

Or, as sometimes happens with subscription orders, it could be more than a week before the order actually ships and the authorization process would need to be repeated.

I have no idea how banks in New Zealand handle authorizations and settlements. But the thing is, neither does Paizo. They can't possibly have different Customer Service policies for each country with its own banking laws . They just take Visa and MasterCard. And Discover, but I don't think that's as relevant internationally.


Gorbacz wrote:
Apocryphile wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
Apocryphile wrote:
Surely you should send the link when the order goes to pending, as that's when you actually take my cash?!?
Because they don't take the cash until it ships. See this FAQ.

Well maybe the banks here in NZ do things differently, because my account is debited before my order moves to shipped. The funds are no longer accessible by me, i.e., I have paid for them.

I understand that Paizo may not receive my money for some time after that (I worked in Finance for over 11 years), but the point remains that I have paid. As the authorisation has been successful, the funds have been confirmed to be present, and set aside for Paizo so at that point there is no danger of them not receiving their cash.

So I ask again, why do I have to wait for the warehouse to get round to ship my order (which usually seems to be at the bottom of the stack) to be able to download my pdfs when payment for them has been set aside from my account for usually well over a week previously?

What reason is there for not allowing access to the pdfs once the order has been authorised? Payment is assured at that point. There is no risk, only goodwill, and swift delivery of goods paid for.

Well, having worked in finances for 11 years you surely do know that authorisations on bank accounts don't last forever. The usual expiry date is 7 days. So, consider this scenario:

April 7th: Paizo authorises your acc and gives you access to your PDFs.
April 14th: Auth expires.
April 16th: Paizo comes around to sending your order (since it's on the bottom of the stack) and charges your card, but the money isn't there any more. Maybe it's because that wasn't a credit card but a flat/pre-paid card and you spent the money on something else in the mean time, or maybe because a bailiff put an order on your account to seize overdue alimony (in most jurisdictions, bailiff seizure orders override any...

I call them "test charges", and I know it is not the real name. Back on this sub-topic--->I am surprised he did not know this. I don't work in financing or banking, and even I know this.

It is also common sense that an entity is not going to turn over a product or service normally until they get the money. Unlike a physical item you can't recall a pdf.

Gabby I am sure you know this. I am just reinforcing your message for the "finance" guy.

Dark Archive

Quote:
Barbarian: From a game-balance perspective, the original barbarian serves her role admirably, but her mechanics are math-intensive, forcing you to recalculate numerous values once she enters rage and keep track of a bevy of once per rage abilities. Worst of all, she's the most likely character of all to die in a fight due to the way that ending rage lowers her current hit points. The unchained barbarian keeps the adrenaline-pumping fun of her former self but significantly simplifies the gameplay by adjusting the final mechanics instead of the stats themselves. For example, she gains temporary hit points instead of raising and later decreasing her current and maximum health (woo, no more dying at the end of rage!). Finally, she gains stronger versions of some of the mechanically weakest rage powers like raging climber (now you get an actual Climb speed instead of a small bonus!).

I wonder if this means that the unchained Barbarian will gain morale bonuses to attack and damage, instead of a morale bonus to Strength.

If that's the case, the bonuses from Rage won't stack with standard Bardic Inspire Courage, which also gives morale bonuses to attack and damage.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Set wrote:
Quote:
Barbarian: From a game-balance perspective, the original barbarian serves her role admirably, but her mechanics are math-intensive, forcing you to recalculate numerous values once she enters rage and keep track of a bevy of once per rage abilities. Worst of all, she's the most likely character of all to die in a fight due to the way that ending rage lowers her current hit points. The unchained barbarian keeps the adrenaline-pumping fun of her former self but significantly simplifies the gameplay by adjusting the final mechanics instead of the stats themselves. For example, she gains temporary hit points instead of raising and later decreasing her current and maximum health (woo, no more dying at the end of rage!). Finally, she gains stronger versions of some of the mechanically weakest rage powers like raging climber (now you get an actual Climb speed instead of a small bonus!).

I wonder if this means that the unchained Barbarian will gain morale bonuses to attack and damage, instead of a morale bonus to Strength.

If that's the case, the bonuses from Rage won't stack with standard Bardic Inspire Courage, which also gives morale bonuses to attack and damage.

Actually, Inspire Courage gives a competence bonus to attack and damage, and a morale bonus to saves against charm and fear.

Good hope would be in trouble though. :(

Dark Archive

Kalindlara wrote:

Actually, Inspire Courage gives a competence bonus to attack and damage, and a morale bonus to saves against charm and fear.

Good hope would be in trouble though. :(

Ah, imagine my surprise. Inspire 'courage' and 'morale bonus' just sort of flowed together in my head. Turns out it's more like 'Inspire Competence.' :)


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My prediction on the unchained monk:

-It will get ki pool at 1st or 2nd level
-It will get a ki powers every even level
-flying kick will be like pounce
-it will have no alingment restriction
-flurry will be closer to the brawler version
-it will have style feats added to its list of bonus feats

Contributor

Set wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:

Actually, Inspire Courage gives a competence bonus to attack and damage, and a morale bonus to saves against charm and fear.

Good hope would be in trouble though. :(

Ah, imagine my surprise. Inspire 'courage' and 'morale bonus' just sort of flowed together in my head. Turns out it's more like 'Inspire Competence.' :)

Actually, inspire competence is a bonus on skill checks.

Scarab Sages

Monks full BAB for the win!!! I love the other ideas as well, but am fascinated at the changes coming for the monk class.

Jason, I think I love you!


Set wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:

Actually, Inspire Courage gives a competence bonus to attack and damage, and a morale bonus to saves against charm and fear.

Good hope would be in trouble though. :(

Ah, imagine my surprise. Inspire 'courage' and 'morale bonus' just sort of flowed together in my head. Turns out it's more like 'Inspire Competence.' :)

It was a Morale bonus in 3.5; presumably, Paizo changed it to work with Rage and other 'Morales'.


Jucassaba wrote:

My prediction on the unchained monk:

-It will get ki pool at 1st or 2nd level
-It will get a ki powers every even level
-flying kick will be like pounce
-it will have no alingment restriction
-flurry will be closer to the brawler version
-it will have style feats added to its list of bonus feats

I'm thinking a more modular Monk that may not necessarily even have ki unless you want it too, actually.

Sovereign Court

Alexander Augunas wrote:
Set wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:

Actually, Inspire Courage gives a competence bonus to attack and damage, and a morale bonus to saves against charm and fear.

Good hope would be in trouble though. :(

Ah, imagine my surprise. Inspire 'courage' and 'morale bonus' just sort of flowed together in my head. Turns out it's more like 'Inspire Competence.' :)

Actually, inspire competence is a bonus on skill checks.

The disadvantage of that is that it doesn't stack with Timely/Gallant Inspiration (which would otherwise probably be a couple of my favorite bard spells.)

Silver Crusade Contributor

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Set wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:

Actually, Inspire Courage gives a competence bonus to attack and damage, and a morale bonus to saves against charm and fear.

Good hope would be in trouble though. :(

Ah, imagine my surprise. Inspire 'courage' and 'morale bonus' just sort of flowed together in my head. Turns out it's more like 'Inspire Competence.' :)

Actually, inspire competence is a bonus on skill checks.
The disadvantage of that is that it doesn't stack with Timely/Gallant Inspiration (which would otherwise probably be a couple of my favorite bard spells.)

I... never realized that. :'(

Sovereign Court

Kalindlara wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Set wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:

Actually, Inspire Courage gives a competence bonus to attack and damage, and a morale bonus to saves against charm and fear.

Good hope would be in trouble though. :(

Ah, imagine my surprise. Inspire 'courage' and 'morale bonus' just sort of flowed together in my head. Turns out it's more like 'Inspire Competence.' :)

Actually, inspire competence is a bonus on skill checks.
The disadvantage of that is that it doesn't stack with Timely/Gallant Inspiration (which would otherwise probably be a couple of my favorite bard spells.)
I... never realized that. :'(

It's one of the main reasons that I've been tempted by archetypes which have variant performances for my next bard. :P

Silver Crusade Contributor

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Set wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:

Actually, Inspire Courage gives a competence bonus to attack and damage, and a morale bonus to saves against charm and fear.

Good hope would be in trouble though. :(

Ah, imagine my surprise. Inspire 'courage' and 'morale bonus' just sort of flowed together in my head. Turns out it's more like 'Inspire Competence.' :)

Actually, inspire competence is a bonus on skill checks.
The disadvantage of that is that it doesn't stack with Timely/Gallant Inspiration (which would otherwise probably be a couple of my favorite bard spells.)
I... never realized that. :'(
It's one of the main reasons that I've been tempted by archetypes which have variant performances for my next bard. :P

Hmm... court bard, perhaps?

Oooooh... or Dawnflower Dervish! Double your personal buffs while using the spells for party members. :)


I would point out the gallant and timely inspiration work perfectly with Skalds.

Silver Crusade Contributor

David Neilson wrote:
I would point out the gallant and timely inspiration work perfectly with Skalds.

I really like skald thematically, but it's probably the most dependent on party makeup of any class I can think of. I also don't like how raging song interacts with barbarians - when the most iconic companions for a skald would rather have a bard instead, something's off. :)


Arachnofiend wrote:
Jucassaba wrote:

My prediction on the unchained monk:

-It will get ki pool at 1st or 2nd level
-It will get a ki powers every even level
-flying kick will be like pounce
-it will have no alingment restriction
-flurry will be closer to the brawler version
-it will have style feats added to its list of bonus feats

I'm thinking a more modular Monk that may not necessarily even have ki unless you want it too, actually.

Well, a monk without ki would be just a brawler, but there could be options that focus less on ki.


Personally, about the whole Barbarians and the morale bonus thing, I feel all they really need is one little line that says "This morale bonus stacks with other morale bonuses." Or one other, considering.


Kalindlara wrote:
David Neilson wrote:
I would point out the gallant and timely inspiration work perfectly with Skalds.
I really like skald thematically, but it's probably the most dependent on party makeup of any class I can think of. I also don't like how raging song interacts with barbarians - when the most iconic companions for a skald would rather have a bard instead, something's off. :)

I am not sure why you would prefer to have a bard. You are giving out free rage with no fatigue. I mean its nice that you can have a bard in addition.


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The barbarian can't use it's rage powers under the skald's rage, which is the main reason for playing a barbarian.

Skald is great for Fighters, cavaliers, rangers, slayers, brawlers, maybe rogues, and 3/4 BAB going into melee after their buffs are up. But the Barbarian would be limited to the skald's rage powers so you'd go from like 5+ rage powers at lv10 to 3 rage powers.


David Neilson wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
David Neilson wrote:
I would point out the gallant and timely inspiration work perfectly with Skalds.
I really like skald thematically, but it's probably the most dependent on party makeup of any class I can think of. I also don't like how raging song interacts with barbarians - when the most iconic companions for a skald would rather have a bard instead, something's off. :)
I am not sure why you would prefer to have a bard. You are giving out free rage with no fatigue. I mean its nice that you can have a bard in addition.

The barbarian would probably rather have a bard so he can get rage with his own rage powers and bard buffs at the same time. With the skald he can get either his own rage with his own rage powers, or free rage with fewer rage powers that he didn't choose himself, both with the bard buff spells but without that sweet, sweet inspire courage.

Most casters will also prefer the bard.

Tangent:

Interestingly, I might stand to play a skald in a group that will also have a bard in the (perhaps) not so distant future :D With the remaining players planning to play respectively rogue, swashbuckler, druid (with pet) and ranger (don't know if he'll have a pet or not), that's going to be great if we can manage to coordinate our spell selections.

Grand Lodge

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Chess Pwn wrote:
The barbarian can't use it's rage powers under the skald's rage, which is the main reason for playing a barbarian.

Is that the reason? I thought getting stupidly huge boosts to Str and Con were the big draws.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
The barbarian can't use it's rage powers under the skald's rage, which is the main reason for playing a barbarian.
Is that the reason? I thought getting stupidly huge boosts to Str and Con were the big draws.

I would 100% play a Barbarian with no Str/Con boosts but the ability to utilize Rage Powers.

Grand Lodge

Sadly, my main barbarian died in a TPK a few weeks back, so I won't be getting much more experience with the class for awhile. He only had one rage power to his name.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Sadly, my main barbarian died in a TPK a few weeks back, so I won't be getting much more experience with the class for awhile. He only had one rage power to his name.

The first couple are often kind of meh, depending on your build, but later on you can start chaining stuff together crazily.

I'm putting together a Natural Attacker with Hive Totem and the new Animal Fury upgrades with Raging Grappler.

At higher levels he'll have a strong Bite, with Grab, that inflicts poison, and Raging Grappler lets him automatically Trip someone he has Grappled (no check). Plus immunity to Swarms. Always nice.

And that's a fairly niche, weak-ish build. The obvious comparison being the Beast Totem Superstition unstoppable juggernaut of "Screw that guy in particular" that's impossible to kill.

Grand Lodge

Of course, this GM has neve gotten a campaign above 4th level I hear, so it didn't really matter in the long run. Maybe I roll an Unchained barbarian next time.

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