Quests for All!

Speaking of artwork... is there an official image of Ulisha floating about? I wouldn't be surprised if the answer was no (paying for a new piece of art for the Quest line is probably not cost-effective, and maybe there wasn't an already-made female half-orc bard lying around in the art pile), just curious. If the answer is indeed no, I think I gotta go out and find something that'll do the job (or use the half-orc sorcerer paper mini I did a while back and call that solid).

Wow- this is great! My girlfriend sometimes has a hard time getting through a full module, but would love to play a few encounters every week or so. This should also make it much easier to entice more friends/coworkers to dive in as well- thanks!

Wow, this looks like it could really fit a niche, exactly for the reasons given;
- accessible for new players that won't immediately commit to a 5 hour game
- practical for people with jobs on weekdays
- doesn't "poison" your wealth/prestige vs. XP progression

Doing it with pregens seems sensible; otherwise you might see all kinds of nova/15minute builds.

Personally I also kinda like the challenge of playing a pregen; it's easy playing a character I tuned myself, it's interesting to step outside that comfort zone now and then.

Pregen? Oh hell no.

Wow, this looks like it could really fit a niche, exactly for the reasons given;

- accessible for new players that won't immediately commit to a 5 hour game
- practical for people with jobs on weekdays
- doesn't "poison" your wealth/prestige vs. XP progression

Doing it with pregens seems sensible; otherwise you might see all kinds of nova/15minute builds.

Personally I also kinda like the challenge of playing a pregen; it's easy playing a character I tuned myself, it's interesting to step outside that comfort zone now and then.

This is exactly what we need for our intro saturdays at the Subcultures. I am sure you will get some great milage out of it too for de Tafelridder :)

I wouldn't be so sure considering the player I saw in the Columbus area with the kitsune barbarian monstrosity. Even after ruining (okay, that may be hyperbolic) my Night March of Kalkamedes table at Origins he was doing the same thing in Glories of the Past a week or two later when I stopped into a FLGS to run my 60th table.

So, Ohio is home to a lot of min-maxer and powergamers, both in PFS and other gaming. There are definitely a handful who play as you describe, with little regard for the experience of their table mates.

There are also a significant number of min-maxers around here who are also happy to play down their PC for the sake of everyone else having a good time.

I am not familiar with the particular PC / player mentioned, however.

Pregen? Oh hell no.

The ACG pregens hold their own. The old pregens from the core are being reworked. New pregens for the APG are being designed. Try to keep an open mind. And try them out before you just shut the idea down without any play experience with the new and revamped pregens.

The old pregens from the core are being reworked.

This surprises me, I was certain they would not be touched so they continue to match what is in the NPC Guide.

The old pregens from the core are being reworked. New pregens for the APG are being designed.

Interest = piqued.

Mike, I am confused how the chronicles are supposed to work.

Lets say I play Mausoleum with GM 1. He gives me a filled out chronicle sheet giving 1 xp, 1 pp, 100 gp. I then play webs with GM 2, He gives me a chronicle sheet, what does GM 2 put on that chronicle sheet? 1 xp, 1 pp, 100 gp? 1 xp, 1 pp, 250 gp? 0 xp, 0 pp, 150 gp?

3 or 4 years ago at PAX I played a series of similar adventures; I think there were five of them. I know that it was before Mike and John were part of the campaign, but do you know what happened to them? I think the adventures were called PAXport to the inner sea.

The old pregens from the core are being reworked.

Would you care to tell us a bit more about that?

Some of them are fine (say, Kyra), but there's quite a few that I think deliver a disappointing first experience (Harsk).

If possible, could we have a real archer pregen, with Precise Shot at level 1? Right now it's conspicuously absent, and I recently played with some kids with the Seltiel and Amiri pregens who desperately wanted to shoot everything rather than fight it in melee.

@Flite: as I understand it, GM 2 gives you 150gp, no extra XP, and no extra PP.

@Mike: is it me or is the "Special Information" checkbox missing on the Chronicle Sheet?

3 or 4 years ago at PAX I played a series of similar adventures; I think there were five of them. I know that it was before Mike and John were part of the campaign, but do you know what happened to them? I think the adventures were called PAXport to the inner sea.

Those are the demos mentioned in the blog, with a link to the Beginner Box Bash. If I recall correctly, the PAXPort to the Inner Sea encounters were by and large reskinned Beginner Box Bash demos.

I would expect that the XP, PP, Gold determination is not made until you have played another adventure which provides XP. Once that happens, you total up the number of quests played and determine the rewards.

@ Flite: from what I understand, you only get one chronicle sheet for the quests. As you play them, each quest get's checked off, and either when you complete the last one, or when you start your first non-quest scenario, the GM signs off on the quest chronicle, with the reward based on how many quests have been done.

How does reporting for the Quests work? There is one entry in the reporting tool for Silverhex Chronicles Quests. There is not an entry per quest played.

Do you report once for each time a quest is run? If you run all six quests for the same group do you only report that once or six times? What if you run three quests one week and three quests the next week for the same group? Do you report that once, twice or six times?

If you get a different group for each quest, I would imagine that you would need to report each one separately.

How does running quests count toward table credits for GM stars?

Amiri, Seoni, and Kyra all perform quite well in their chosen roles.

will these quests be treated as WBG in regards to pregen character death? ie, will players still get a chronicle if they don't survive? one of the quests could be particularly deadly, just wondering how to handle that.

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Pregen? Oh hell no.

The ACG pregens hold their own. The old pregens from the core are being reworked. New pregens for the APG are being designed. Try to keep an open mind. And try them out before you just shut the idea down without any play experience with the new and revamped pregens.

That's still only half of it. Even a well done character still isn't one of my characters.

My long time players enjoyed using the pregens, since they got to try out the different pregens for each quest if they wanted. Several of them now want to build characters of the pregens they tried.

That's still only half of it. Even a well done character still isn't one of my characters.

Hopefully not being too s&%+ty, but the quests are free, and they're specifically designed for new players. The pregen only policy makes sense to me. If you don't want to play a pregen, you can always run it. And if that doesn't do it for you, I guess they weren't written veteran players in mind anyway, really. They're a cool recruitment tool, and they're more akin to demos than full blown scenarios.

Michael Brock wrote:

The old pregens from the core are being reworked.

Would you care to tell us a bit more about that?

Some of them are fine (say, Kyra), but there's quite a few that I think deliver a disappointing first experience (Harsk).

If possible, could we have a real archer pregen, with Precise Shot at level 1? Right now it's conspicuously absent, and I recently played with some kids with the Seltiel and Amiri pregens who desperately wanted to shoot everything rather than fight it in melee.

I'm fairly certain I read in another thread that the hunter pregen is an archer with an animal companion. I could be wrong though?

But either way, Harsk was built with his backstory in mind (particularly his weapon of choice and his favored enemy giant), but maybe they could improve some other areas.

We're running the quests at Geek Girl Con mid October. I'll let you know how it goes.

At conventions in our area, we usually get brand new people who don't know anything about the game or who have played D&D several years back, so these quests are a really good fit.

To speed up the awkward "how did our characters meet" and "what's my motivation" section, I'm writing up an intro where Ulisha contacts the Pathfinder Society with the Silverhex deal, and an agent in the River Kingdoms recruits the PCs. Since there's not a big Society presence in the River Kingdoms, it seemed to make sense that they would need to contract with local labor. My first thought on reading the quests was "what do I do if my players don't want a druid artifact?" The Society tie-in dodges that problem nicely, and it lets me weave the Society into what we're using as an introduction to PFS specifically.

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Pregen? Oh hell no.

The ACG pregens hold their own. The old pregens from the core are being reworked. New pregens for the APG are being designed...

This is great news! Thanks Mike!

Ascalaphus wrote:

Michael Brock wrote:

The old pregens from the core are being reworked.

Would you care to tell us a bit more about that?

Some of them are fine (say, Kyra), but there's quite a few that I think deliver a disappointing first experience (Harsk).

If possible, could we have a real archer pregen, with Precise Shot at level 1? Right now it's conspicuously absent, and I recently played with some kids with the Seltiel and Amiri pregens who desperately wanted to shoot everything rather than fight it in melee.

I'm fairly certain I read in another thread that the hunter pregen is an archer with an animal companion. I could be wrong though?

But either way, Harsk was built with his backstory in mind (particularly his weapon of choice and his favored enemy giant), but maybe they could improve some other areas.

Given how utterly painful I've found the mechanics of crossbow shooting (i.e., the frustrating feat tax just for them to be as good as regular bows in addition to the combat feats necessary to make archery good in the first place), I hope that his back story is retconned. A shame, too, because thematically crossbows look and feel awesome.

Mike, I am confused how the chronicles are supposed to work.

Lets say I play Mausoleum with GM 1. He gives me a filled out chronicle sheet giving 1 xp, 1 pp, 100 gp. I then play webs with GM 2, He gives me a chronicle sheet, what does GM 2 put on that chronicle sheet? 1 xp, 1 pp, 100 gp? 1 xp, 1 pp, 250 gp? 0 xp, 0 pp, 150 gp?

Whenever you play through another Quest in the series, the GM simply needs to check off the corresponding box on your Chronicle sheet, so you should only receive the Chronicle sheet from GM 1. You only apply the rewards once you a) finish the entire series, or b) play an adventure other than The Silverhex Chronicles with that character.

No, you may not play a first level character of your own creation. First level pregens are required to play through these.

Unlike others, I don't mind this requirement. Even as an experienced player it gives me the chance to play something new and try out some of the new rules.

With new pregens coming out soon, I don't mind the pregen requirement, chance to try out new classes without having to commit to them is fun in itself.

Michael Brock wrote:

No, you may not play a first level character of your own creation. First level pregens are required to play through these.

Unlike others, I don't mind this requirement. Even as an experienced player it gives me the chance to play something new and try out some of the new rules.

I can moderately get behind this. For me, while it makes me raise an eyebrow, I understand that it's not meant for veteran players who can built the most min-maxed character in four minutes, but rather something that is meant to bring in new players that were thinking about playing who might have been making excuses because of time or were sketchy about the game. That being said, anyone who's played the "We Be Goblins" adventures didn't get to play their own characters for that either. Just look at it like that.

I understand that it's not meant for veteran players who can built the most min-maxed character in four minutes

I've seen some old first steps games get reduced to this, but that was only when there weren't any new people at the table. It's good to to remember that the scenarios catered to new players should to put those new players in the lime-light as much as possible. Similarly, the same should be done for anything repeatable for the people who haven't played it before.

Although, that bit me one time when I played the confirmation for the first time on a deaf oracle and was expected to do all of the social interaction! Super funny though.

Michael Brock wrote:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Pregen? Oh hell no.

The ACG pregens hold their own. The old pregens from the core are being reworked. New pregens for the APG are being designed. Try to keep an open mind. And try them out before you just shut the idea down without any play experience with the new and revamped pregens.

That's still only half of it. Even a well done character still isn't one of my characters.

As I've been advised countless times while in this job, we aren't going to please everyone all of the time, even when it's something that is new, free, and something previously unavailable. I'm also guessing you didn't like WBG or WBG2 since they had the same requirement. My apologies it doesn't fit your needs. Hopefully, we can take the feedback and do better the next time around.

Ascalaphus wrote:

Michael Brock wrote:

The old pregens from the core are being reworked.

Would you care to tell us a bit more about that?

Some of them are fine (say, Kyra), but there's quite a few that I think deliver a disappointing first experience (Harsk).

If possible, could we have a real archer pregen, with Precise Shot at level 1? Right now it's conspicuously absent, and I recently played with some kids with the Seltiel and Amiri pregens who desperately wanted to shoot everything rather than fight it in melee.

I'm fairly certain I read in another thread that the hunter pregen is an archer with an animal companion. I could be wrong though?

But either way, Harsk was built with his backstory in mind (particularly his weapon of choice and his favored enemy giant), but maybe they could improve some other areas.

I've heard that about the Hunter, and it's good news. But I can't see or use them yet, and I just wanted to mention the gaping wide niche for a real archer.

I'm okay with pregens only. These are pretty short adventures with about one real fight in them. That would favour Nova builds to an absurd degree if you let them.

As I've been advised countless times while in this job, we aren't going to please everyone all of the time, even when it's something that is new, free, and something previously unavailable. I'm also guessing you didn't like WBG or WBG2 since they had the same requirement. My apologies it doesn't fit your needs. Hopefully, we can take the feedback and do better the next time around.

As a semi-serious joke, how about you allow built characters ... with a 10-point buy, which you can later retrain, free of charge?

Ducks away from incoming aerial vegetation.

As a semi-serious joke, how about you allow built characters ... with a 10-point buy, which you can later retrain, free of charge?

Ducks away from incoming aerial vegetation.

GM time spent auditing your 10-point buy build for a one hour game.

Very cool idea! Looking forward to giving them a whirl!

If it was a tier 1 regular scenario open for full reply, I would agree with you. However, for a product focused designed specifically for introduction of the system and game to new players, and not for veterans to play ad nauseum, we decided it best to make it pregens across the board. In the future when we release other quests series, we may reconsider. However, I need my mind changed through actual play experience because there is too much of this crap that happens and drives away first time players for good.

I like the decision to limit play to pre-gen's. Based on my experience I always recommend first-time players start with a pre-gen. And for experienced players, I agree with Mike's original point about powergaming.

Given the number of pre-gens available (and with more coming by the looks of it) I think there is enough choice to satisfy everyone.

If every class is getting a pre-gen, I'm a lot less leery of a "pre-gen only" rule. That many choices will certainly feel much less like restriction, and more like having a bunch of options.

If every class is getting a pre-gen, I'm a lot less leery of a "pre-gen only" rule. That many choices will certainly feel much less like restriction, and more like having a bunch of options.

I'm skeptical that a brand new player really needs access to all the options. And really, what books are most new players going to have? Maybe the CRB?

I would argue that access to the ACG classes is probably exposing more options than the average new player would probably invest in before their first game on the basis that they're probably not going to buy it. It might even help ACG sales.

As I've been advised countless times while in this job, we aren't going to please everyone all of the time, even when it's something that is new, free, and something previously unavailable.

If one of secondary objectives is to get veterans playing with the newbies and if you have a lot of veterans saying they don't like the pregens only because they're underpowered the revamp will help considerably. If a lot of people feel the way I do, that using a pregen feels like dressing in someone elses clothes, then that might be a reason to reconsider the rule. (which i can see more than a few reasons for having)

If I'm the only one that feels this way (It would hardly be the first time-though I still insist Al Bundy's god shoes were a great idea) then by all means pay me no mind. Griping about perceived imperfections in the things we love is almost a geek ancillary hobby unto itself and doesn't necessarily carry any deeper meaning.

I'm also guessing you didn't like WBG or WBG2 since they had the same requirement. My apologies it doesn't fit your needs. Hopefully, we can take the feedback and do better the next time around.

The coolness of playing a goblin does a lot to offset it being a pregen in that case- sort of like Paranoia where you're expected to die hilariously.

Drogon wrote:

If every class is getting a pre-gen, I'm a lot less leery of a "pre-gen only" rule. That many choices will certainly feel much less like restriction, and more like having a bunch of options.

I'm skeptical that a brand new player really needs access to all the options. And really, what books are most new players going to have? Maybe the CRB?

I would argue that access to the ACG classes is probably exposing more options than the average new player would probably invest in before their first game on the basis that they're probably not going to buy it. It might even help ACG sales.

The fact that all those options are there is all that matters. If I can fan out a veritable plethora of choices, then the excitement of choosing a character to play will be noticeable. It doesn't matter if, ultimately, they choose Valeros. The fact that Valeros was chosen out of a possible 20+ options is what counts.

And, yes, the existence of pre-gen choices like Larianne will sell the Ultimate Combat book, etc.

Can each Quest be played with a different pre-gen?

Regarding reporting, also see what John posted HERE.

kevin_video wrote:

I understand that it's not meant for veteran players who can built the most min-maxed character in four minutes

I've seen some old first steps games get reduced to this, but that was only when there weren't any new people at the table. It's good to to remember that the scenarios catered to new players should to put those new players in the lime-light as much as possible. Similarly, the same should be done for anything repeatable for the people who haven't played it before.

Although, that bit me one time when I played the confirmation for the first time on a deaf oracle and was expected to do all of the social interaction! Super funny though.

Ah. Thanks, Mike. So it seems possible I could play the quests with more than one pre-gen, it would be easier to report if I played with just one. Right? I would then apply the completed 6-quest chronicle to any one of my 1st level PCs.

Acedio wrote:

kevin_video wrote:

I understand that it's not meant for veteran players who can built the most min-maxed character in four minutes

I've seen some old first steps games get reduced to this, but that was only when there weren't any new people at the table. It's good to to remember that the scenarios catered to new players should to put those new players in the lime-light as much as possible. Similarly, the same should be done for anything repeatable for the people who haven't played it before.

Although, that bit me one time when I played the confirmation for the first time on a deaf oracle and was expected to do all of the social interaction! Super funny though.

** spoiler omitted **

Sorry what was that again?

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Michael Brock wrote:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Pregen? Oh hell no.

The ACG pregens hold their own. The old pregens from the core are being reworked. New pregens for the APG are being designed. Try to keep an open mind. And try them out before you just shut the idea down without any play experience with the new and revamped pregens.

That's still only half of it. Even a well done character still isn't one of my characters.

As I've been advised countless times while in this job, we aren't going to please everyone all of the time, even when it's something that is new, free, and something previously unavailable. I'm also guessing you didn't like WBG or WBG2 since they had the same requirement. My apologies it doesn't fit your needs. Hopefully, we can take the feedback and do better the next time around.

Let them cry about every small thing not to their liking. I am just excited you acknowledge peoples concerns, and our looking into it.

Although the ACG pregens are way late.

I would have loved to have seen this without pregens, but I totally understand the logic behind it and would rather have the quests with pregens than not have them at all (I've never been one for having my cake and eating it.)

My advice, if you want to play these with your own wizard, play the pregen wizard and then when you apply the Chronicle sheet to your wizard, have your narrative canon be that he was there, not the pregen. I did something similar with WBG when I applied that to a character, by having him find a book (in his own narrative) written by an erratic hermit about the goblins of that tribe. Just an idea.

** spoiler omitted **

It started with a long conversation with Big Steve and Walter Sheppard who were playing and GMing respectively about why I didn't put a rank in linguistics at first level to get read lips, especially since this was my second deaf oracle, and I should have known better.