New Options

Monday, July 14, 2014

The Year of the Sky Key, Season 6 of the Pathfinder Society Organized Play campaign, is approaching, and that means the new Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play is on its way. It's still a few weeks before we preview the new guide, but we can share a few new options available at the start of Season 6. In fact, there's something for players and something for GMs and organizers.

I imagine you've already spotted the art and guessed that expanded race access is one announcement—spot on. Just as non-standard race access is a hot topic on the messageboards, it's a common talking point during our meetings. It's tough to balance the lure of race boons for conventions against letting as many people as possible play the types of characters they want. Add to that the heated discussions about whether or not some non-standard races are overpowered and the concerns about the so-called "cantina effect." That's a lot to juggle when making a decision, but we decided that introducing a few new options would be best for the campaign. Beginning August 14th 2014 at Gen Con, three new races will be available for play without requiring a special Chronicle sheet: kitsune, nagaji, and wayang. These races have been in circulation through extra Chronicle sheets for nearly three years now, and even though some players have had an opportunity to create these characters, we want newer players to have new options to enjoy. Like other race options, it is still necessary that a player have a book or watermarked pdf reference for the race, such as from Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Dragon Empires Gazetteer, Pathfinder Player Companion: Dragon Empires Primer, Pathfinder RPG: Advanced Race Guide, or Pathfinder RPG Bestiary: Bestiary 4.


Illustration by Eva Widermann

So let's see... seven core races plus three Bestiary races plus three Dragon Empires races. That equals 13, right? Well, there's one piece missing from that equation. We're also removing two races.

For several years, aasimar and tieflings have enjoyed a prominent role in the Pathfinder Society, but as the organization concludes its work in Mendev—where numerous pit-born fight for recognition and heaven-blooded warriors wage holy war—it's time for them to step back. Beginning on August 14th, creating an aasimar or tiefling character will require a special Chronicle sheet, as was the case years ago. The exception is any aasimar or tielfing character with at least 1 XP; these characters are grandfathered into the campaign.

Does this mean you can create several new characters, play a scenario with each, and have several native outsiders waiting for when you need them? Well, we debated long and hard whether to require 4 XP per character, as at that point one is past the free rebuilding stage. However, we also recognized this as unnecessarily punitive to casual players who may only be able to play once or twice in the next month. To answer your question, yes, you can make 10 aasimars and play The Confirmation an equal number of times, but we're trusting you'll exercise some good taste and respect a decision made with the larger community in mind.

Now that we've covered the more controversial news, let's wrap things up with something outright awesome.

We (both Mike and John) both have experience as venture-officers and event coordinators, and we understand that sometimes it's tough to convince a new player to commit to a full 4-5 hour experience. Some events just are not conducive to running a full game, whether that's because it's a weeknight with lots of folks who need to get to bed early or because the location is only open for a few hours. What do you do when a scenario just isn't short enough?

For years the answer has been quests, one-hour mini-adventures intended to last an hour or less. They're great little adventures, but they're a little difficult to schedule for a few reasons. First, there's no easy way to tell a bigger story by connecting a few quests together. Second, the quests—though replayable—offer no gold, XP, or Prestige Points, giving them a reputation of risk for little reward. The most difficult hurdle is that there are only two of them in print (not counting the Goblin Attack demos or Beginner's Box Bash demos).

This year at Gen Con, we're debuting six new 1st-level Pathfinder Quests that take place in and around the River Kingdoms. Each one is a standalone adventure, but they are all loosely tied into a common plot thread, allowing a GM to combine anywhere from two to all six to make a larger adventure as suits the needs of the group and event location. Play them in any order—one can even play the finale quest early—and earn a Chronicle sheet with rewards that scale based on the number of adventures you played.

John Compton and Mike Brock
Developer and Global Organized Play Coordinator

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Eva Widermann Pathfinder Society
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Silver Crusade 4/5

Jiggy wrote:
Lamontius wrote:
after reading that humans are a terrible mechanical choice and that darkvision is the only way to escape death via darkness I have pretty much given up on all of you
The ironic thing is that my highest-level human *has* darkvision.

I have a gnome with Darkvision as a known spell. Deep Earth bloodline sorcerer. Not his best bloodline spell. Possibly his worst.

Silver Crusade 2/5 *

Lamontius wrote:

after reading that humans are a terrible mechanical choice and that darkvision is the only way to escape death via darkness I have pretty much given up on all of you

I never said that. Darkvision is just an incredibly efficient way to do so.

5/5

Potion of darkvision followed up by an elixir of darksight when needed. YMMV

Silver Crusade 2/5 *

Kyle Baird wrote:
Potion of darkvision followed up by an elixir of darksight when needed. YMMV

That's ridiculously expensive compared to darkvision plus oil of daylight or darkvision plus dayfinder.

This phenomenon is partially a result of the darkness spells being redonkulously good. Especially compared to their counterparts.

5/5

Ridiculous until your daylight gets dispelled. A potion giving see-in-darkness is much less noticeable and pretty cool.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.

WHAT EVIL GM WOULD DISPEL MY BEAUTIFUL DAYLIGHT SPELL?!??!!?1/111

Grand Lodge 4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I've gotten into dispel wars with darkness users. They tend to die before I run out of spell slots to throw daylight with.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
I've gotten into dispel wars with darkness users. They tend to die before I run out of spell slots to throw daylight with.

In the mean time, you're spending two channels to heal as a move action so you can use daylight as your standard.

Potion of darkvision doesn't say "Yoo-hoo antagonist NPCs, I'm right here!"

4/5 Designer

It depends on the number of enemies around, but I've definitely seen daylight dispel wars work to the PCs' advantage. Typically it takes a higher percentage of the enemies' actions to down the daylight than it does for the PCs to put it back up. For instance, I've seen prepared PCs cripple the damage rate of a small group of babaus because the babaus were forced to go for a roughly 50/50 dispel chance to bring the light level back down to what they preferred, thus losing 1 or 2 babau actions each round to the PCs' 1 action (and they had more PCs than babaus too).

Grand Lodge 4/5

Rachel Hill wrote:
Potion of darkvision doesn't say "Yoo-hoo antagonist NPCs, I'm right here!"

They haven't managed to seriously inconvenience her after air walk/defending bone/energy body. Mostly they waste their action recasting darkness.

Also, my bard starts performing as a move and maintains for free.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

The only way to defeat it is to play an Oread with the Murmurs of Earth feat...


I'm thinking of one scenario in particular where the darkness war really grates on players. As a GM, I've a blast running it. Readied actions to attack or stealth in the deeper darkness. Readied actions to dispel daylight. Infinite castings of deeper darkness. Caverns to really get that stealth and improved cover to work in your favor, et cetera.

I'm not saying you're incorrect, as I've had NPCs burn actions to get darkness/deeper darkness up, but NPCs last one combat; PCs burn their resources with each encounter. If the NPCs cause the party to use two extra ki points, three extra rounds of rage, four third level spell slots for daylight, and six channels to heal the party three times, they're less prepared for the next combat.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Once my Sun Domain cleric reached 8th level and gained the ultimate trump card against magical darkness, he stopped encountering it. :(

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

Fromper wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
Finlanderboy wrote:
Mark Stratton wrote:
Humans are always poor choices mechanically, but still my favorites. :)
Are you serious? That free feat can be game breaking.
Fatal flaw: no darkvision.
I'd rather have a free feat and a sunrod.

My human has a free feat, darkvision, a magic bridge, and a wolf.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/5 *

So will we be seeing Ratfolk Catfolk and Batfolk (dhampirs) as the new races in two/three years time?

Grand Lodge 4/5

Rachel Hill wrote:
If the NPCs cause the party to use two extra ki points, three extra rounds of rage, four third level spell slots for daylight, and six channels to heal the party three times, they're less prepared for the next combat.

The last time I have ever been out of resources by the end of the scenario was Risen From The Sands with my 4th level flame oracle.

1/5

these are some pretty specific cases

what is being referred to here with these examples should, if they were actually presented in level/tier context, in no way dissuade pfs players with less stars next to their names from doing simple things to counter simple problems that they are much more likely to encounter before they encounter what you all are talking about

anyways back to fox people and such

4/5 5/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Jiggy wrote:


My tiefling is an oni-spawn cleric. ;D

The larger point seemed to be the viability of a dual stated human because you couldn't get certain combinations of stats. Aasimar and tieflings together make that a pretty small pool. (strength/dex for archers is the only one i can think of really)

Any two combinations of physical attributes and Str/Int Can only be accessed by a dual talent human {generally the feat is a better choice but for some builds a dual talent human can be devastating

3/5

David Bowles wrote:
Finlanderboy wrote:
Mark Stratton wrote:
Humans are always poor choices mechanically, but still my favorites. :)
Are you serious? That free feat can be game breaking.
Fatal flaw: no darkvision.

Some of my humans have darkvision....


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dylos wrote:

I completely understand the desire to remove Tieflings and Aasimars, with blood of angels/fiends they are very powerful for just about every class, also their removal means that the only race that can early entry into Eldritch Knight (base Aasimar) is now a boon race once again.

I'm slightly disappointed about the announcement that Kitsune/Wayang/Nagaji will be legal since I just traded for a boon of them, but I suppose I can let it collect dust until such time that they are no longer openly available.

Maybe next year they'll force everyone to be gelatinous gray cubes...just for you.

Silver Crusade 2/5 *

Kyle Baird wrote:
Ridiculous until your daylight gets dispelled. A potion giving see-in-darkness is much less noticeable and pretty cool.

I've never seen that happen. Most NPCs are simply not capable. To each their own, but PFS PCs are pretty cash-strapped for those kinds of consumables.

Grand Lodge 2/5

Havoq wrote:
Dylos wrote:

I completely understand the desire to remove Tieflings and Aasimars, with blood of angels/fiends they are very powerful for just about every class, also their removal means that the only race that can early entry into Eldritch Knight (base Aasimar) is now a boon race once again.

I'm slightly disappointed about the announcement that Kitsune/Wayang/Nagaji will be legal since I just traded for a boon of them, but I suppose I can let it collect dust until such time that they are no longer openly available.

Maybe next year they'll force everyone to be gelatinous gray cubes...just for you.

Banking on it.

1/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Finlanderboy wrote:
David Bowles wrote:


Fatal flaw: no darkvision.

Some of my humans have darkvision....

All of my current PFS characters have darkvision.

(2 Aasimar, 2 Gnomes with the alternate trait, a dwarf, and a half-orc.)
For a while, my next character in the queue was going to be a human or half-elf Oracle, and I figured I'd go with the Clouded Vision curse for the darkvision. Another concept I have, a Nagaji Dragon Disciple, would only have Low-light, but that's justified because he'd eventually get Blindsense.

As an aside, of my two Aasimar: One is a vanilla Aasimar, and the other is Archonblooded, with plenty of alternate traits. The only trait I *didn't* trade out: Darkvision.

Silver Crusade 2/5 *

Mark Seifter wrote:
It depends on the number of enemies around, but I've definitely seen daylight dispel wars work to the PCs' advantage. Typically it takes a higher percentage of the enemies' actions to down the daylight than it does for the PCs to put it back up. For instance, I've seen prepared PCs cripple the damage rate of a small group of babaus because the babaus were forced to go for a roughly 50/50 dispel chance to bring the light level back down to what they preferred, thus losing 1 or 2 babau actions each round to the PCs' 1 action (and they had more PCs than babaus too).

First off, babaus don't even have deeper darkness, so all you need is regular old darkvision. Tieflings and Aasimars laugh at them. Secondly, babaus might have dispel magic, but most other critters can only dispel with darkness spells, which means they have to touch. Which is a losing proposition.

Lantern Lodge 5/5

In this thread, 10 comments regarding the topic of the blog post, 560 comments about whether or not Aasimar are broken.

And no end in sight.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Jayson MF Kip wrote:

In this thread, 10 comments regarding the topic of the blog post, 560 comments about whether or not Aasimar are broken.

And no end in sight.

Not surprising. People don't like other people taking their toys away, even if it is for the good of the Society. To cope, they assume that it was for power reasons instead of the stated reasons because the power level they can argue with, while the stated reasons they cannot.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

"The good of the Society"?

"The stated reasons"?

3/5

Kyle Baird wrote:
The Morphling wrote:
I really hope that if we're given a "consolation boon" it's not as useless and boring and flavorless as Xenophobia. I want a boon which lets another race gain some trait of said races. Something Tien-flavored. A third-trait boon which unlocks a Kitsune racial trait, or something.

Hmm. The idea of additional race-boon powered boons holds some merit.

How about a boon that gives certain skill bonuses vs. races attached?

Or one that opens up racial traits of boons attached?

Suprrrrrrrrnice!

Make that feats and we have real fun^^
I want to see gnomes with 9 fox tails hehehe.
Or halflings with realistic likeness that can change into foxes too!


I'll be curious to see just how many Kitsune Swashbucklers will be at the tables over the next year. Cause that just makes sense.

Silver Crusade 4/5

Kalvit wrote:
I'll be curious to see just how many Kitsune Swashbucklers will be at the tables over the next year. Cause that just makes sense.

I'm expecting more kitsune fey sorcerers.

3/5

Fromper wrote:
Kalvit wrote:
I'll be curious to see just how many Kitsune Swashbucklers will be at the tables over the next year. Cause that just makes sense.
I'm expecting more kitsune fey sorcerers.

I am expecting undead bloodlines.

Shadow Lodge 1/5

Thinking of making an Anubis worshiping paladin just to be different.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville

So, my Kitsune Oracle fits with all the subjects here. He is a planear Oracle with the Dark Tapestry mystery. He has Darkvision through the mystery and will be able to see through Deeper Darkness at 6th level.

His name is Bob Betelguise.

Scarab Sages 5/5

Finlanderboy wrote:
Fromper wrote:
Kalvit wrote:
I'll be curious to see just how many Kitsune Swashbucklers will be at the tables over the next year. Cause that just makes sense.
I'm expecting more kitsune fey sorcerers.
I am expecting undead bloodlines.

undead bloodline is pretty limited - only corporeal and only if they were once humanoid.

A dirge bard on the other hand affects all undead

3/5

Quick question:

Someone upthread said that Aasminar can get into Mystic Theurge by level 4, but I'm damned if I can figure out how that works. Since I have long wanted to make a Mystic Theurge that doesn't suck, that is off interest to me.

Anyone care to take me through it?

glass.

*

One of these will help, but I dinnae remember exactly which or where in the thread. SLA & Prestige class

Mystic Theurge in PFS

Paizo Employee 4/5 Developer

27 people marked this as a favorite.

Just a few responses to concerns, critiques, and comments across several threads over the past week:

Dialing back aasimars and tieflings from unlimited play to boon-only play involved Mike's and my reading and compiling several thousand messageboard posts over several years of observing the effects of such limitless access. It also involved countless (or at least "uncounted but numerous") discussions with campaign volunteers, conventions-goers, store liaisons, Paizo employees, and other campaign participants. We debated and discussed the matter over several weeks, determining that cycling out those two races for at least a year would be a positive move for the campaign. From there, we drew up a fair window to allow players to lock in another native outsider or three and resolved to require only 1 XP on those characters--the aim being that most participants would have the opportunity to create and play at least one new character in that time. As an important step in any tough decision, we then slept on the matter, revisited it several more times, and refined the details.

We also recognized that these conditions would enable however many people to exploit the system and create a dozen new native outsider characters for a rainy day. In a way, that's a feature and not a bug. Although I scratch my head a bit at stockpiling aasimars, I'm also aware that the campaign serves a wide range of play styles and interests, so if someone is wild about aasimars and wants to play a bunch of scenarios in a month, that's his or her business.

There are also some folks who have voiced concerns about trusting Paizo not to pull the rug out from them in the future regarding other products (such as appears to be the case for Blood of Angels and Blood of Fiends) and particular boons (such as the "triple boon" that opens access to the soon-to-be-open-acess kitsune, nagaji, and wayangs). I hear you. To my knowledge, Paizo has only performed two substantial scale-backs of available character options: the "archetype purge" (synthesist, vivisectionist, undead lord, and gravewalker) and now the restriction of aasimars and tieflings. That averages approximately one such announcement every three years, or just over one single character option removed/restricted per year for every several hundred (perhaps several thousand) added--once you add in the bracers of falcon's aim. It is not our goal to tweak the noses of those who buy a product with Pathfinder Society Organized Play in mind. Your desire to use these books is an important reason for our giving warning of thise change. Your enjoyment of these texts is one of many very strong reasons we did not ban aasimars and tieflings outright. We study and subsequently sanction new resources close to their dates of publication, announcing these updates not only because we want you as players to have more exciting options but also because we know you value being able to assess a new book's usefulness for Pathfinder Society Organized Play. As noted above, changing those terms is not something we do often or lightly.

For those who recently traded for a kitsune/nagaji/wayang boon, you have my condolences and understanding, for I've also been in a position where a campaign decision left me with several redundant boons. I suspect that no matter when we might have made the announcement, it would have caught several of you with buyer's remorse. It's not our intention to punish you for trading at an unpredictably inopportune time. As I mentioned upthread, I'm contemplating ways of making "useless" race boons useful--probably through one or more convention boons, though having one as a free download is not outside the realm of possibility.

Is cycling races something that we're looking to do regularly? I imagine it won't happen every year, though we may cycle in a few more races and cycle out a few in the future. As some posters have observed, this can help to keep things fresh in the campaign and open new options to regions that would otherwise have limited race boon access. Any such decision would be one we would consider carefully, much as we did for this one. Any such decision would consider how the aasimar/tiefling cycling goes.

Happy gaming,
John

Silver Crusade 4/5

Thanks for the feedback, John.

Dark Archive 2/5

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Ban humans for a year. ;)

4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

While on the one hand I can understand the frustration at having a boon become 'worthless' I think I would also view this with certain relief, as I no longer have to worry about what happens when my once-in-a-lifetime Kitsune PC dies. I would certainly feel less pressure to make sure I create 'the perfect character' as I have with other limited use boons.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ****

I could definitely support race cycling on a predictable time table.

Like every 2 years (Even Seasons), or 3 years to allows more access to a particular set.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

You know what would be awesome? If the good folks at Paizo would add some alternate stat options for the variant versions of the core races. Instead of just some racial trait choices they could trade in and out, perhaps have different stat modifier arrays for the different types of dwarves, elves and gnomes (not to be confused with the drow, svirfneblin, etc), that might make these iconic races more appealing for a wider variety of classes. If it worked so well for the Aasimar and Tiefling, it could work just as well for them.

Just a thought.

3/5

First of all, thank you for your response.
It helps restore some of the lost faith I have in the direction the campaign seemed to be going.

John Compton wrote:
There are also some folks who have voiced concerns about trusting Paizo not to pull the rug out from them in the future regarding other products (such as appears to be the case for Blood of Angels and Blood of Fiends) and particular boons (such as the "triple boon" that opens access to the soon-to-be-open-acess kitsune, nagaji, and wayangs). I hear you. To my knowledge, Paizo has only performed two substantial scale-backs of available character options: the "archetype purge" (synthesist, vivisectionist, undead lord, and gravewalker) and now the restriction of aasimars and tieflings.

As one of those who have "voiced concerns" over the perceived loss of value of my Paizo purchases, I would note that unlike the archetype purge, which removed only specific and relatively small portions of a book's usefulness, that this change effectively makes Blood of Angels and Blood of Fiends useless to those who intend to make new characters after 08/14/14 and do not participate in convention play.

The other point I would note is that the announcement was somewhat counter-intuitive in the reasoning behind the decision for the restriction. There was no mention of game balance or volunteer feedback, only some vague reference to the resolution of the Worldwound plotline and, combined with prior hints that Season 6 may involve scenarios returning to Tien Xia - this seemed particularly odd for with characters who might hail from Tianjing and have never ventured to the Worldwound. I know as I had to try to explain your "more options" post to my girlfriend after we just purchased the Dragon Empires Gazetteer so she can play an aasimar cleric of Yamatsumi, who originally hails from Tianjing.

John Compton wrote:
It is not our goal to tweak the noses of those who buy a product with Pathfinder Society Organized Play in mind. Your desire to use these books is an important reason for our giving warning of thise change. Your enjoyment of these texts is one of many very strong reasons we did not ban aasimars and tieflings outright.

The Law of Unintended Consequences has definitely raised its ugly head on this one, then.

Speaking of which, I would also like to respectfully point out that this will likely actually decrease the perceived value convention boons to those who may already have a aasimar or tiefling characters or no interest in them. Given the many, many, many discussions about convention boons and the need for more volunteers and participation at conventions, I can only assume this possible chilling effect is likewise unintended.

Though I still disagree with the decision and how it was communicated, as always, one of the things I appreciate most about both Paizo & PFS is the willingness of the employees & campaign staff to open and maintain dialogue with their customer/ player base. Thank you again for your responsiveness, especially difficult, I'm sure, with negative determinations such as these.

-TimD

Shadow Lodge 5/5

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Aasimar and tiefling tears combine to make a delicious sweet and sour sauce. I will be disappointed to see them go.

Grand Lodge 4/5

TimD wrote:
As one of those who have "voiced concerns" over the perceived loss of value of my Paizo purchases, I would note that unlike the archetype purge, which removed only specific and relatively small portions of a book's usefulness, that this change effectively makes Blood of Angels and Blood of Fiends useless to those who intend to make new characters after 08/14/14 and do not participate in convention play.

This is roughly what will be available from Blood of Angels after aasimars go back to boon-only.

Additional Resources wrote:
Bloodlines: martyred bloodline is legal for Pathfinder Society but the bonus feat Leadership remains unavailable; Feats: all feats on pages 24-25 are legal except Supernal Feast; Magic: bard masterpieces are legal; Other: variant assimar abilities are not legal for Pathfinder Society; Oracle Curses on page 26 are legal; Inquisitons on pages 26-27 are legal; Subdomains: all subdomains on page 27 are legal except the whimsy subdomain; Traits: all traits on pages 30-31 are legal except ethical leader. Clergy member is useable once per scenario instead of once per week. Faith healer may be used for Day Job checks.

If this is useless to you, then I am sorry. I still find plenty of use in it for my non-planetouched characters.

Dark Archive 2/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I admit, I haven't read every post in this thread...

However, there is more to Pathfinder than PFS. Have you considered branching out into non-PFS gameplay? If not, try it. In my experience, most GMs are MORE limiting in non-PFS than in PFS. ;)

3/5

TriOmegaZero wrote:
stuff that can be used without requiring a plane-touched character

Valid.

If it wasn't locked, I would alter my statement from useless to "much less useful" or "not useful enough I would have likely made the purchase for PFS play".

-TimD

Grand Lodge 4/5

I find that a valid concern as well. While John mentioned that as a reason they did not full on ban the races, it is still an unfortunate decision for those of us who enjoy aasimars and tieflings.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

I agree. I have no issues with banning the alternate heritages, but the base race option just seems meh, and very counter intuitive to either the idea of refocusing to Tien Xia, or the idea off cutting back on some races. Kitsune alone I foresee being the new Aasimar party x10.

5/5 5/55/55/5

DM Beckett wrote:
I agree. I have no issues with banning the alternate heritages, but the base race option just seems meh, and very counter intuitive to either the idea of refocusing to Tien Xia, or the idea off cutting back on some races. Kitsune alone I foresee being the new Aasimar party x10.

How? Dex and charisma are supposed to equal to all of the other stat combos.. including dex and charisma. They make good enchantment focused sorcerers but there's no way they'll even get into the same solar system of popularity to be EVERY role in the party as the pitchfork and halo set.

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