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My group has finally reached the Stag Lord's Fort, entering the fort as elite bandits under Kressle's "command." This was something she offered to do for them on the condition that they consider working for the Stag Lord, who she remains loyal to, and fighting him honorably if they can't come to some sort of arrangement.
Here's my question. What sort of understanding could a diplomatic group reach with the Stag Lord? He's a tragic, tortured figure who drowns himself in alcohol, possibly too self-destructive to ever be redeemed, but if there was a way to reach an understanding with him, I'm curious what course some of you might take. How do you go about negotiating with a damaged man who rules by default? Is there a path to redemption for someone whose worldview is tempered by years of brutal abuse at the hand of your only parent?
It goes without saying that the best case scenario will still lead to some sort of coup attempt by the most vicious of the Stag Lord's men, but I'm curious how my players will approach this and would like to prepare for as many possibilities as possible.
The Stag Lord has been shown might makes right. He was beaten as a child, and when he grew up he did the beating. It would take a long time to convince him there was another way to do things. I don't think the compromise would work. He would probably have to be taken prisoner, and somehow reeducated in order to be redeemed. As long as he is power he has to reason to listen to anyone, that is why I went with taking him prisoner.
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Redemption on this scale is a work of Divine intervention. It could be a mighty work for a cleric of a good deity to undertake, with high stakes, as the Stag Lord's attributes could make him a powerful servant of Good if he did convert. Maybe that helm's ties to Erastil are deeper than just improving archery? RRR says that Erastil has polymorphed some wayward folks into more "useful" things. Might a month or two as a beast of burden teach the Stag Lord about the value of service?
Another thought - his father is the root of the problem. Redeeming or destroying that influence might be the first step.
Also, his bio hints at Nyrissa's involvement. She'll surely try to stop any efforts to save him.
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You can allow the PCs to diplomatically speak to the Stag Lord to get him to surrender or some other agreeable means of truce.
Mechanics can be done as a "skill challenge" (for no better term) using Diplomacy. Grant the players a +1 to +5 on their check for how "good" or convincing their arguement is when they roleplay so as to make it important to have good interaction.
Make seven diplomacy attempts - against a stagnant DC (20 - 25 or so).
five failures means he goes into a drunken rage and orders the attack.
Success can lead to a number of scenarios.
1 option - since Stag Lord believes in Might Makes Right - perhaps after he's "convinced" he offers to surrender only to someone superior to him - so he asks the PCs for their best warrior to defeat his.
On the periphery - you don't want one player doing everything, so have events during that match that can use the other PCs. Perhaps they can control the crowd, see some of the loyalists conspiring to interfere, perhaps some non-combatants are trying to flee and being chased down by loyalists to be killed as desertes, make sure there's something for each PC to contribute to.
IF Stag Lord wins the duel have him order the others to attack the other PCs as he readies the killing blow - but at that moment have Akiros takle the Stag Lord and save the PC showing his hand as a redeemable fallen hero.
IF Stag Lord loses the duel Dovan looses an arrow to kill Stag Lord (finally to have command) and orders Auchs to attack the PCs.
The bottom line - the PCs still get to have a fight and kill some of the most despicable NPCs, and they get to bargain/deal with non-combat way to making the fight more fair (they aren't fighting all of the bandits AND Stag Lord at same time).
Robert
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This is some very good stuff. I particularly like the idea of incorporating skill challenges into the mix. So far Ive asked for sense motive to simulate their insight into the interpersonal relationships. Doing diplomacy checks to keep track of the group's various attempts to ingratiate themselves before they come out with their real purpose in being there.
Or, the Stag Lord could take a page out of Korben Dallas' book.
1. Shoot one of the PCs in the head.
2. Ask if anyone else wants to negotiate.
>:D
Charm monster (1 day/level). Repeat.
More seriously, there are actually rules for this in one of the 3.5 supplements, Exalted Deeds. IIRC, conversion requires lots of time and some opposed rolls. I'd make it a skill challenge, myself, using Concentration, Intimidate, Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Will saves, Knowledge: religion...
Of course, you have to capture him first to do that.
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I'd think a few decades of rage-fueled alcoholic madness qualifies him as "bat**** crazy" and it would require a LOT of intervention to A: stop the alcoholism, B: break his preconceived notions of "might makes right", and C: "convert" him to your side.
He'd still likely be aggressively predatory, and not very trustworthy, but as a potential ally very effective in his methods. You'd just need to keep him on relatively short leash, and keep him sober.
If you could heal the scars on his body, that would likely go a long way towards fixing the problems with his mind.
My group has finally reached the Stag Lord's Fort, entering the fort as elite bandits under Kressle's "command." This was something she offered to do for them on the condition that they consider working for the Stag Lord, who she remains loyal to, and fighting him honorably if they can't come to some sort of arrangement.
Here's my question. What sort of understanding could a diplomatic group reach with the Stag Lord? He's a tragic, tortured figure who drowns himself in alcohol, possibly too self-destructive to ever be redeemed, but if there was a way to reach an understanding with him, I'm curious what course some of you might take. How do you go about negotiating with a damaged man who rules by default? Is there a path to redemption for someone whose worldview is tempered by years of brutal abuse at the hand of your only parent?
It goes without saying that the best case scenario will still lead to some sort of coup attempt by the most vicious of the Stag Lord's men, but I'm curious how my players will approach this and would like to prepare for as many possibilities as possible.
I'm still awaiting my copy (it's in the mail), so perhaps I'm not aware of something within the NPC description that would prevent what I'm going to suggest.
While redeeming the character might be a worthy goal, it sounds like your group is looking for an immeditate or short-term diplomatic solution. Given that the NPC has been described as a Might-makes-right guy, the key to a diplomatic exchange is simple: Fear.
The party has to convince the Stag Lord that they have the ability and the willingness to destroy him. If they can convince him of that, he could bow to their rule out of good ole-fashioned self-preservation instincts. Essentially, he'd be a reluctant vassal, and during the feudal period of the Middle Ages of Earth, that wasn't an uncommon arrangement.
From a GM perspective, it also introduces numerous role-playing opportunities. How much effort can/will the PCs exert to keep him in check? Will they but heads in terms of ruling? If he becomes a vassal, can they count on him to deliver troops? Etc.
Finally, as a quasi-friendly adversary, the long-term quest for redemption or conversion could be played out in a more natural fashion over the course of the campaign.
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Longterm conversion...
Very interesting. That's actually very similar to how my group handled Kressle. They kept her as a more-or-less bound prisoner with some freedoms and took her with them as they explored, treating her well, talking to her every day, and gradually reached a point when she could be trusted not to run away. In a fight, they armed her and she fought alongside them. After a month, she was willing to help them infiltrate the Stag Lord's fort as long as they gave her the freedom to choose who's side she would be on if it turned into a fight.
I could see a similar thing playing out over the course of the campaign if the PCs pursue it, although Kressle was young and still had a little whimsy to her. The Stag Lord is a very damaged man, barely human any more after what his father made of him. Some of that damage may never be undone. But he could potentially be reprogrammed enough, rather like a terminator. His nature will always be brutal, but he could be made to use it in defense of the group's ideals. Interesting ideas.