Advanced Class Guide Preview: Bloodrager

Tuesday, June 24, 2014


Illustration by Géraud Soulié

Even during the brainstorming and initial design for the Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide, the bloodrager was the "weird" class. The concept was strong—a mix of the barbarian and the sorcerer that used bloodlines to fuel its arcane rage—but the weirdness came from the lack of precedent for the class. Hunters, investigators, shaman, and swashbucklers were all over history, folklore, and were even mentioned in Golarion before they were added to this book, but the bloodrager was created out of whole cloth. We thought about toying with the name or forcing it into some kind of classical archetype, but when we tried either of those, something got lost along the way.

While we liked the initial proof of concept, marrying it with another story idea did not solve the problem. There was still something missing. Then it came like a thunderbolt—spells! The bloodrager needs spells!

Like the sorcerer, the bloodrager needed to be a spontaneous caster, but we wanted the progression to look something like the ranger or the paladin (the bloodrager was a full BAB class after all), both of which are prepared casters. The first order of business was to design a similar progression for spontaneous casters. Once that was done, we had to find the right spell list. Spell lists are tricky beasts, and we knew substantial shifts would occur with each design iteration, but we needed a starting point. To that end, we chose a modified version of the magus list. We knew it wasn't perfect—far from it—but it was the best place to start.

The overall design goal was to create a class that was both easy to build and fun to play. Even before we unleashed this most metal of classes to the general public, I had a good feeling we were on track. Ryan Macklin decided to give this bruiser a whirl during our internal playtests, and loved the feeling of playing a character that basically felt like a character off the cover of an old heavy metal album, without flipping though a number of sources to get him just right. In other words: mission accomplished.

When the bloodrager reached the public playtest, this sentiment was echoed by a great number of playtesters. Were there issues? Sure. As we figured, that spell list wasn't cutting the mustard, but it gave us handholds to make the climb toward the class's own spell list. There was some fiddling to be done with a number of class features, both those that were standard for the class, and those nestled in the bloodlines, but the excellent playtest data gave input on where to expand, where to pull back, and which ones just needed a little finesse to get right.

After some playtest chatter, we looked again at renaming the classes or to give it a focus that fit better with lore, but in the end the class is what it is called, and named what it does. So bloodrager stuck.

With the development of the bloodrager completed, the next step was the creation of archetypes. This is always difficult for classes that basically have archetypes in their design (bloodlines, I'm looking at you) but we came up with some exciting options. In Advanced Class Guide you'll find the bloodrider (a mounted bloodrager that transfers some of his power to his mount) the rageshaper (a rager that gains extra features when it changes shape) and the untouchable rager (which replaces spell progression with spell resistance). All together, mixing bloodlines with archetypes, you'll be able to play a variety of bloodragers!

Stephen Radney-MacFarland
Designer

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Tags: Bloodrager Géraud Soulié Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
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"ahh man they really hated the class preview for the Warpriest! What should we do next time?"
"Not tell them the second best feature of the class was nerfed without recompense?"
"Talk about the classes role in combat and how we expect it to work in a party dynamic?"
....
"Remove any preview showing changes to class features?"
"BRILLIANT"

Paizo Employee Creative Director

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Chaotic Fighter wrote:
Yes but the bloodrager iconic was supposed to be shown last Thursday but they skipped it.

Actually... we jumped the gun with the swashbuckler, and now we're back on schedule to have these lead right up to Gen Con.

The "Meet the Bloodrager" post should be going live on Thursday.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Insain Dragoon wrote:

"ahh man they really hated the class preview for the Warpriest! What should we do next time?"

"Not tell them the second best feature of the class was nerfed without recompense?"
"Talk about the classes role in combat and how we expect it to work in a party dynamic?"
....
"Remove any preview showing changes to class features?"
"BRILLIANT"

I too noticed that there didn't seem to be much actual preview in the blog, but I was thinking of saying something more along the lines of "I wish more actual material had been revealed, as I don't feel like I've really learned anything new."

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
James Jacobs wrote:
Chaotic Fighter wrote:
Yes but the bloodrager iconic was supposed to be shown last Thursday but they skipped it.

Actually... we jumped the gun with the swashbuckler, and now we're back on schedule to have these lead right up to Gen Con.

The "Meet the Bloodrager" post should be going live on Thursday.

What's the lineup after that? Alphabetical? Looking forward to the Brawler!

--Vrock 'em Sock'em Robots!

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
King of Vrock wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Chaotic Fighter wrote:
Yes but the bloodrager iconic was supposed to be shown last Thursday but they skipped it.

Actually... we jumped the gun with the swashbuckler, and now we're back on schedule to have these lead right up to Gen Con.

The "Meet the Bloodrager" post should be going live on Thursday.

What's the lineup after that? Alphabetical? Looking forward to the Brawler!

--Vrock 'em Sock'em Robots!

*eyes King of Vrock*

hey! I don't remember electing you!

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

12 people marked this as a favorite.
Insain Dragoon wrote:

"ahh man they really hated the class preview for the Warpriest! What should we do next time?"

"Not tell them the second best feature of the class was nerfed without recompense?"
"Talk about the class's role in combat and how we expect it to work in a party dynamic?"
....
"Remove any preview showing changes to class features?"
"BRILLIANT"

To be fair, I don't think there's anything they could have put in a preview that would make you happy.


You're right about that Ross. Still, I am excited and guardedly optimistic that I'll be able to make an Orc or Half-Orc Bloodrager who runs headlong into enemies and explodes. Hmmm, for some reason a goblin bloodrager seems to make more sense like that.

Gobbos!

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Major_Blackhart wrote:
who runs headlong into enemies and explodes.

That could be a cool Bloodrage power: when you start a bloodrage, set off an elemental burst, centered on yourself.

It has friendly-fire issues if you aren't careful, but that's what charging into the bad guys is for.

Or putting it on an NPC meant to battle the party.


Alternatively...it sounds like the Bloodrager may have not undergone that huge a revision from the last playtest packet, for them to really have that much to talk about.

Silver Crusade

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Holy Barbarian concept, here I come.

Again. :)

Sovereign Court

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Kieviel wrote:
King of Vrock wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Chaotic Fighter wrote:
Yes but the bloodrager iconic was supposed to be shown last Thursday but they skipped it.

Actually... we jumped the gun with the swashbuckler, and now we're back on schedule to have these lead right up to Gen Con.

The "Meet the Bloodrager" post should be going live on Thursday.

What's the lineup after that? Alphabetical? Looking forward to the Brawler!

--Vrock 'em Sock'em Robots!

*eyes King of Vrock*

hey! I don't remember electing you!

I order you to be quiet... or you'll see the violence inherent in the system!

--I'm the King of Vrock. There is none higher. Sucka PCs should call me sire!

Silver Crusade

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Bloodrager very exciting, but does anyone else want to caption the above picture with the voice of a high pitched nerd with a cleft pallet.

Bloodrager: "FOOLSH! You thought you could defeat me! But now I schummon forth my deadly schpinning hula hoopsch... OF DEATH!"

Merisiel: "Seriously?"

Silver Crusade

10 people marked this as a favorite.

When I first saw the artwork I thought "an archetype based on Soul Calibur's Tira is awfully specific..." ;)


Woo! Hopefully my favorite Bloodlines stayed the same (Arcane, Celestial, Elemental Wind) or were buffed (Fey, Infernal). Mostly Fey though. I feel so bad for that Bloodline.

Other than that, I am hyped. I wish they'd reveal at least a change or two though. I wanna see if my suggestions for Blood Sanctuary made it in.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

Bloodrager very exciting, but does anyone else want to caption the above picture with the voice of a high pitched nerd with a cleft pallet.

Bloodrager: "FOOLSH! You thought you could defeat me! But now I schummon forth my deadly schpinning hula hoopsch... OF DEATH!"

Merisiel: "Seriously?"

Never go in against a Thithilian when death ith on the line!


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

Bloodrager very exciting, but does anyone else want to caption the above picture with the voice of a high pitched nerd with a cleft pallet.

Bloodrager: "FOOLSH! You thought you could defeat me! But now I schummon forth my deadly schpinning hula hoopsch... OF DEATH!"

Merisiel: "Seriously?"

What is funny is that the hoops were added in at a later date. The original art totally lacked them.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Mikaze wrote:
When I first saw the artwork I thought "an archetype based on Soul Calibur's Tira is awfully specific..." ;)

thank god i am not the only one, although a samsaren warpriest named zasalamel now sounds like my first character to come from this book.


Stephen wrote:
Even before we unleashed this most metal of classes to the general public

This made me crack up laughing.

Ryan Macklin wrote:

To be truthful, my bloodrager in the playtest was all about tea, peace, harmony, all that... except while bloodraging. He was totally ashamed to be abyssally tainted. In our first major encounter, he even tried to talk down the monsters while everyone else was fighting. That, of course, served as a platform for the tilt: when the monster rejected his offer, the bloograge happened; I removed my lithe half-elf mini from the table and put the barghest in its place.

The players flipped. It was awesome. It highlights one of the little touches I love about the class: there's no alignment restriction from your bloodline (or at all in the class), so you can get your emo while clawing a foe's face. (Folks who know me well know that's my jam.)

This makes me think of someone who is unquestionably a pacifist... and violent about it.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Tels wrote:
This makes me think of someone who is unquestionably a pacifist... and violent about it.

I'm picturing the aftermath of that violent outburst. "Look what you made me do!"


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Ross Byers wrote:
Tels wrote:
This makes me think of someone who is unquestionably a pacifist... and violent about it.
I'm picturing the aftermath of that violent outburst. "Look what you made me do!"

YOU WILL ACCEPT PEACE AND DEMOCRACY EVEN IF IT KILLS YOU!!!

Bloodrager: The 'Murica class!

[Edit] Quick! Someone photoshop Crowe waving the U.S. Flag!


3 people marked this as a favorite.

As an aside, my first Bloodrager will be named Mr. Torgue.


Ross Byers wrote:
Insain Dragoon wrote:

"ahh man they really hated the class preview for the Warpriest! What should we do next time?"

"Not tell them the second best feature of the class was nerfed without recompense?"
"Talk about the class's role in combat and how we expect it to work in a party dynamic?"
....
"Remove any preview showing changes to class features?"
"BRILLIANT"
To be fair, I don't think there's anything they could have put in a preview that would make you happy.

Actually the Bloodrager was one of the few classes I liked. All it needs was for some of the weaker bloodlines to get buffs. Also a more updated spell list would be cool.

Liberty's Edge

Insain Dragoon wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
Insain Dragoon wrote:

"ahh man they really hated the class preview for the Warpriest! What should we do next time?"

"Not tell them the second best feature of the class was nerfed without recompense?"
"Talk about the class's role in combat and how we expect it to work in a party dynamic?"
....
"Remove any preview showing changes to class features?"
"BRILLIANT"
To be fair, I don't think there's anything they could have put in a preview that would make you happy.
Actually the Bloodrager was one of the few classes I liked. All it needs was for some of the weaker bloodlines to get buffs. Also a more updated spell list would be cool.

The blog actually mentions them having done both of those things. Just (sadly) without examples.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Insain Dragoon wrote:
Actually the Bloodrager was one of the few classes I liked.

I'm confused. Are you saying all your negativity in the other preview threads was because you didn't like those classes in the first place, or that if this blog actually contained some preview material you would have managed not to find fault with it?

Shadow Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
King of Vrock wrote:
Kieviel wrote:
King of Vrock wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Chaotic Fighter wrote:
Yes but the bloodrager iconic was supposed to be shown last Thursday but they skipped it.

Actually... we jumped the gun with the swashbuckler, and now we're back on schedule to have these lead right up to Gen Con.

The "Meet the Bloodrager" post should be going live on Thursday.

What's the lineup after that? Alphabetical? Looking forward to the Brawler!

--Vrock 'em Sock'em Robots!

*eyes King of Vrock*

hey! I don't remember electing you!

I order you to be quiet... or you'll see the violence inherent in the system!

--I'm the King of Vrock. There is none higher. Sucka PCs should call me sire!

Help! Help! I'm being repressed!

Contributor

Of all the classes in the Advanced Class Guide, this is the one that I'm most intrigued to read about in the Advanced Class Origins product.


Ross Byers wrote:
Insain Dragoon wrote:
Actually the Bloodrager was one of the few classes I liked.
I'm confused. Are you saying all your negativity in the other preview threads was because you didn't like those classes in the first place, or that if this blog actually contained some preview material you would have managed not to find fault with it?

He means that he liked almost every aspect of the Bloodrager, only finding the faults that he mentioned in the post you quoted. He also adored the Warpriest almost more than any other class in the book. What spawned the negative comments was the burn he experienced in seeing his favorite feature taken away from the Warpriest with only promises of buffs in other areas.

Sczarni

SONGS BUBBA DON'T LIKE MAKE BUBBA GET MAD! LOTSA THINGS MAKE BUBBA GET MAD! BUBBA LIKE KILLIN' MONSTERS! BUBBA WANTS TO CAST SPELLS, BUT NOT WITH BOOK LIKE WIZARDS!

I hope the class is not changed too much from the playtest version. I really like the aberrant bloodline.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Adam B. 135 wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
Insain Dragoon wrote:
Actually the Bloodrager was one of the few classes I liked.
I'm confused. Are you saying all your negativity in the other preview threads was because you didn't like those classes in the first place, or that if this blog actually contained some preview material you would have managed not to find fault with it?
He means that he liked almost every aspect of the Bloodrager, only finding the faults that he mentioned in the post you quoted. He also adored the Warpriest almost more than any other class in the book. What spawned the negative comments was the burn he experienced in seeing his favorite feature taken away from the Warpriest with only promises of buffs in other areas.

That's my point.

Blog with changes: "OMG, Paizo ruined it! (And the fact that they aren't answering my questions or arguing with me is proof that I'm right!)"

Blog without changes: "OMG, Paizo won't tell us anything!"


Your sample size is quite small to make generalizations like that.

It's also pretty much true, the only class we actually got some mechanical change reported on was a massive nerf.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

If that image of the Spellstorm turns out to be an archetype after all (that was omitted from Jason's original archetype list post), that would be kind of cool. A guy who can surround himself with a wall of blades as he goes charging into combat.


LoneKnave wrote:

Your sample size is quite small to make generalizations like that.

It's also pretty much true, the only class we actually got some mechanical change reported on was a massive nerf.

We did actually get some changes reported on the investigator post that Insain Dragoon did see. The action for studying a foe became a move action and studied combat now gives half the Investigator's level to damage too.

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Cthulhudrew wrote:
If that image of the Spellstorm turns out to be an archetype after all (that was omitted from Jason's original archetype list post), that would be kind of cool. A guy who can surround himself with a wall of blades as he goes charging into combat.

ponders reworking his not-martial-oriented-at-all-but-Charismatic-as-hell Desnan sorcerer into a starknife-based version of this


Adam B. 135 wrote:
LoneKnave wrote:

Your sample size is quite small to make generalizations like that.

It's also pretty much true, the only class we actually got some mechanical change reported on was a massive nerf.

We did actually get some changes reported on the investigator post that Insain Dragoon did see. The action for studying a foe became a move action and studied combat now gives half the Investigator's level to damage too.

I totally forgot the investigator! That one had a nice balance of new info, and that new info not being nerfs. Also don't remember any rage from there.


Cthulhudrew wrote:
If that image of the Spellstorm turns out to be an archetype after all (that was omitted from Jason's original archetype list post), that would be kind of cool. A guy who can surround himself with a wall of blades as he goes charging into combat.

Is it possible that this book might have prestige classes? Or that this art is for a feat/new class ability/spell? Because if this is a spell, thats pretty cool for a spell.


LoneKnave wrote:
Adam B. 135 wrote:
LoneKnave wrote:

Your sample size is quite small to make generalizations like that.

It's also pretty much true, the only class we actually got some mechanical change reported on was a massive nerf.

We did actually get some changes reported on the investigator post that Insain Dragoon did see. The action for studying a foe became a move action and studied combat now gives half the Investigator's level to damage too.
I totally forgot the investigator! That one had a nice balance of new info, and that new info not being nerfs. Also don't remember any rage from there.

Oh, there was rage, but more so of the 'Why isn't it August yet!" kind of rage.

Silver Crusade

Adam B. 135 wrote:
Because if this is a spell, thats pretty cool for a spell.

An alternate take on wreath of blades?


LoneKnave wrote:
Adam B. 135 wrote:
LoneKnave wrote:

Your sample size is quite small to make generalizations like that.

It's also pretty much true, the only class we actually got some mechanical change reported on was a massive nerf.

We did actually get some changes reported on the investigator post that Insain Dragoon did see. The action for studying a foe became a move action and studied combat now gives half the Investigator's level to damage too.
I totally forgot the investigator! That one had a nice balance of new info, and that new info not being nerfs. Also don't remember any rage from there.

Oh there was a fair number of people complaining about the Investigator Preview as well. Mainly just griping about how long it takes for Investigators to get Studied Combat/Strike and how it wasn't Sneak Attack. Really a molehill compared to the mountain that certain people turned the Warpriest Preview into.

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Tels wrote:
As an aside, my first Bloodrager will be named Mr. Torgue.

I just have one question for you.

EXPLOSIONS!!!???


I hope they fixed the issue with blood rage and stuff that work with rage. For example raging vitality and similar stuffs.


Mikaze wrote:
Adam B. 135 wrote:
Because if this is a spell, thats pretty cool for a spell.
An alternate take on wreath of blades?

Yeah, hopefully like that but without the 2008 gold tax for casting the spell once. Hopefully it will be a prestige class that makes that kind of thing a class feature.

Liberty's Edge

LoneKnave wrote:
Adam B. 135 wrote:
LoneKnave wrote:

Your sample size is quite small to make generalizations like that.

It's also pretty much true, the only class we actually got some mechanical change reported on was a massive nerf.

We did actually get some changes reported on the investigator post that Insain Dragoon did see. The action for studying a foe became a move action and studied combat now gives half the Investigator's level to damage too.
I totally forgot the investigator! That one had a nice balance of new info, and that new info not being nerfs. Also don't remember any rage from there.

Swashbuckler was about on par with this one. Actually, so was Warpriest, it just happened to mention something controversial.

Investigator appears to be the exception in that regard, not the rule.

Contributor

Adam B. 135 wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
Adam B. 135 wrote:
Because if this is a spell, thats pretty cool for a spell.
An alternate take on wreath of blades?
Yeah, hopefully like that but without the 2008 gold tax for casting the spell once. Hopefully it will be a prestige class that makes that kind of thing a class feature.

The mithral daggers are a focus component, so they aren't destroyed in the casting. You can use the same daggers over and over again.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
sowhereaminow wrote:
Tels wrote:
As an aside, my first Bloodrager will be named Mr. Torgue.

I just have one question for you.

EXPLOSIONS!!!???

LISTEN TO MR. TORGUE'S SICK GUITAR SOLO!!!

MEEEEEEEELYLEAYALEYEYELLAYWEAWELEWYYALWLWYEYALAYYWYEYAALALAYWYE WEEEEEEE


Deadmanwalking wrote:
LoneKnave wrote:
Adam B. 135 wrote:
LoneKnave wrote:

Your sample size is quite small to make generalizations like that.

It's also pretty much true, the only class we actually got some mechanical change reported on was a massive nerf.

We did actually get some changes reported on the investigator post that Insain Dragoon did see. The action for studying a foe became a move action and studied combat now gives half the Investigator's level to damage too.
I totally forgot the investigator! That one had a nice balance of new info, and that new info not being nerfs. Also don't remember any rage from there.

Swashbuckler was about on par with this one. Actually, so was Warpriest, it just happened to mention something controversial.

Investigator appears to be the exception in that regard, not the rule.

You are right! I forgot all about the Swashbuckler entry.

My guess is that I forgot about it due to the lack of rules spoilers, and that the Investigator over hyped me for what the reveals could be for future blogs.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Adam B. 135 wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
Adam B. 135 wrote:
Because if this is a spell, thats pretty cool for a spell.
An alternate take on wreath of blades?
Yeah, hopefully like that but without the 2008 gold tax for casting the spell once. Hopefully it will be a prestige class that makes that kind of thing a class feature.
The mithral daggers are a focus component, so they aren't destroyed in the casting. You can use the same daggers over and over again.

I believe you, but I am having trouble finding the rules for that. Do you mind assisting me? Though I do believe it to still be unfair. Buying and enchanting those daggers for that spell is quite the gold investment.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Adam B. 135 wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Adam B. 135 wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
Adam B. 135 wrote:
Because if this is a spell, thats pretty cool for a spell.
An alternate take on wreath of blades?
Yeah, hopefully like that but without the 2008 gold tax for casting the spell once. Hopefully it will be a prestige class that makes that kind of thing a class feature.
The mithral daggers are a focus component, so they aren't destroyed in the casting. You can use the same daggers over and over again.
I believe you, but I am having trouble finding the rules for that. Do you mind assisting me? Though I do believe it to still be unfair. Buying and enchanting those daggers for that spell is quite the gold investment.
Components wrote:

Focus (F)

A focus component is a prop of some sort. Unlike a material component, a focus is not consumed when the spell is cast and can be reused. As with material components, the cost for a focus is negligible unless a price is given. Assume that focus components of negligible cost are in your spell component pouch.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
LoneKnave wrote:
Adam B. 135 wrote:
LoneKnave wrote:

Your sample size is quite small to make generalizations like that.

It's also pretty much true, the only class we actually got some mechanical change reported on was a massive nerf.

We did actually get some changes reported on the investigator post that Insain Dragoon did see. The action for studying a foe became a move action and studied combat now gives half the Investigator's level to damage too.
I totally forgot the investigator! That one had a nice balance of new info, and that new info not being nerfs. Also don't remember any rage from there.

Swashbuckler was about on par with this one. Actually, so was Warpriest, it just happened to mention something controversial.

Investigator appears to be the exception in that regard, not the rule.

Swash and this one had little to no mechanical spoilers. Warpriest and Investigator had. The Warpriest seemed to be the worst received one, with swash and now bloodrager being chastised for being kinda vague and not really preview-ish, more like "it'll be cool, promise!".

At least that's what I'm feeling, but confirmation bias, yadda yadda.


Let's play a game. I am an Abyssal Bloodrager with ranks in perform guitar and profession porter. Who am I?

easy mode:
also a worshipper of Ormagoden.


13 people marked this as a favorite.

Solomon the Garundi, Human Undead Blooded Bloodrager is ready for action.

Solomon the Garundi,
Born on a Moonday,
Blessed on Toilday,
Married on Wealday,
Took ill on Oathday,
Grew worse on Fireday,
Died on Starday,
Buried on Sunday.
That was the start,
Of Solomon the Garundi

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