Rawrsong's page

Nathanael Love wrote:

If I'm reading this right taking both archetypes if you took the Hawk familiar you'd get that plus an animal companion (who could use your teamwork feats). . .

That would let you set up the kind of characters from fiction with multiple loyal animal companions, right?

Yes, you could get an Animal Companion plus an animal Familiar if you choose one of the Eagle/Crocodile/Monkey/Serpent/Frog Druid Domains. While not PFS legal, the Mauler Archetype lets your Familiar become a secondary combat pet. A small Inquisitor could also use a Mauler Hawk familiar as an airborne mount and let their regular animal companion as their main land mount.

I recently just finished up a mini-campaign using something like this combination to make a LvL 12 small Aasimar Inquisitor of the Eldest. To prevent combat getting cluttered with just my and my pets attack rolls, I talked my GM into letting me use the rules from Unchained for removing iterative attacks. All and all I had fun with the mounted archer build I came up with. We mostly just fluffed my mauler hawk's size changing off as it being a fey critter the Eldest sent me. With the pets and Animal Focus, I didn't really notice the lack of extra umph from Judgement but I was really missing Stalwart and the social boosts hat got swapped out and from Inquisitions/Infiltrator.

It would help if you told us what kind of campaign this will be used for, and what kind of playstyle/character you want to portray. Are you just looking to be a standard melee+heavy armor paladin with an antithetical race choice? Or are you looking for something more exotic like a ranged build or a dex melee based build?

Thank yas for the advice. Just finished up a campaign with one of my favorite characters yet. My awesome GM let me get away with a loophole for my Spellslinger(Wizard)1/Soul Forger(Magus) X to use Spell Combat and Spellstrike with my arcane bonded pistol. Not quite my original idea of a mundane Gunslinger with a nack for crafting special pistols but I had fun with my gishy crafter with a Magic Boomstick.

For our next campaign our GM is pitching the idea of mostly Urban based intrigue. From what I've read of the Advance Class Guide, this seems like the perfect chance to try out the Investigator, but I'm not quite ready to leave my gunplay wheelhouse. Does anyone have any tips on how to stat out and gear a Steel Hound Investigator?

Ah I see, I suppose that line saying SoulForgers can only use their arcane bonded weapon for Spell Combat/Strike does leave some wiggle room for a lenient GM. Have you read N. Jolly's Investigator's Guide yet? It's a great place to start looking for information about the quirks of Investigators. If you want some extra credit points I'd also suggest reading over N Jolly's Alchemist and Gunslinger guides since both classes are very relevant to playing a Steel Hound

Do any of the VMC abilities function at full level?

There are few, but mostly just the ones that affect skills only. For example Bardic Knowledge and Inquisitor's Stern Gaze function at full Class Level.

She's not one of the Big 20, so I would'n't hold my breath.

Actually, since the Empyreal Lords and the Devil/Daemon/Demon books kicked off the Obedience/Boon trend, it wouldn't surprise me if they added a book that expands on some of the lessor powers. Though I am somewhat jealous that since Birgh and Zyphus were detailed in books after Inner Sea Gods, they got Obediences and Boons. I'm planning a Besmaran Swasy/Magus our summer campaign and would really love if the to see an expansion of Besmara's entry from the Skull & Shackles book.

You know, I love reading over some of these morality debates. Really shows how sociopathic some gamers/people are.

Seriously though, has the group done much investigation or are they murder hobos whose actions are based solely on the word of the new Queen? Did they ever take the time to hear the Prince's side of the argument, or question some of the town folk and other nobles?

This PathfinderWiki page has a pretty good breakdown of the sourcebooks. I also agree with Fromper that the Inner Sea World Guide and the Inner Sea Gods books tend to be the best books to read in order to get a good feel for Paizo's Golarion Setting. The Inner Sea Primer is a brief, but good book for players to establish familiarity of the setting without spoiling to many secrets about the setting.

Rawrsong wrote:

Faelyn wrote:

Now here is the big question... how does a Cartomancer obtain a new Spell Deck if their previous is lost or destroyed? Would this follow along the normal obtaining a new witch familiar rules?

I'd follow standard Arcane Bond/Familiar/AC/Mount rules. Wait a week and then pay 200gp x Class Level and bound the replacement in an 8 hour ritual.

A Witch's familiar is replaced 1 day later.

I think that should apply to the Cartomancer too.

Ah my mistake, never noticed Witches had a 1 day later and 500gp x Class Level instead of the standard variations. Scarred Witch Doctors sets a precedent for handling their non-familiar features the same way as replacing a normal familiar. Though it can't be applied univerisally due to Bonded Witches, but they flat out form an Arcane Bond instead of replacing familiars.

Speaking of Bonded Witch Doctors with Scars, this reminds me of a previous topic of debate with those 2 archetypes. Chiefly, is it possible to add spells learned from scrolls to a Spell Deck? Normally Witches would feed the scroll to their familiar and Magus/Wizards would write them down in a book.

Now here is the big question... how does a Cartomancer obtain a new Spell Deck if their previous is lost or destroyed? Would this follow along the normal obtaining a new witch familiar rules?

I'd follow standard Arcane Bond/Familiar/AC/Mount rules. Wait a week and then pay 200gp x Class Level and bound the replacement in an 8 hour ritual.

*Edit* Disregard this.

Rawr we are speaking of paladins. Not oracles.

I stated quite clearly that his was IMG - in my game. There's plenty of nonsense that is RAW and plenty of sense that isn't. This is one case. I have no idea if the oracle in question worshipped a god that would object to this sort of action. This last bit was just to point out that paladins have no special status in my games. Anyone who wishes to get power from an external source should not do stuff that source disapproves of, and IMG good gods/philosophies strongly disapprove of killing innocents or allowing innocents to come to harm when you can help them.

I understand that the subject at hand is the Paladin and that Bjørn was referring to how things are at his table. I was simply stating Game Mechanics in case the Oracle was being in contention for losing their powers. I've met several people who don't understand the differences between Oracles and Clerics, especially in regards to the sources of their powers.

And for the record, this applies to all good characters in my games, not just paladins. Had any cleric/oracle of a good god done this, they would be standing there without powers.

Slight side tangent. I hate to nitpick, but since an Oracle was involved in the incident with the Paladin, I just want to point out that it's impossible for an Oracle to fall without house ruling. They can take a hit to their alignment, but there's no language in the APG to suggest that an Oracle can lose their powers. Also there's no rules for being an Ex-Oracle unlike all the other divine classes(Excluding Rangers).

boring7 wrote:

This is because Batman is just as much a fantasy as Jack Bauer, or the Inquisitor of Hera with magical powers.

I was suddenly reminded of the old Internet joke about Batman being of every alignment. Everything he does violates his alignment! Either that - or nothing does. But given that the PF assumption is that the GM will punish violations, rather than reward adherence, I'll go with the first (and funnier) one.

Ah yes, the Batman Alignment Chart. Basically Batman has his own alignment called "Batman" which changes depending on who's doing the writing.

It is important to note, Inquisitors don't even need to follow a Deity to get their abilities. Like Paladins, they can become an embodiment of an Idea simply by believing hard enough in it. For example they could be an Inquisitor of Harsh Justice if they believe strongly enough in the law and that criminals should be punished. They alternatively become an Inquisitor of Anti-Magic if they feel arcane practitioners need restricting.

What is this gobbligook I'm seeing? Every grognard knows that the one true unit of measure mean is the all mighty square.

emphasis mine. It appears that it was already like that....Am I missing something??

Nope, you're right. I was thinking of the change to Crane Wing style.

What's more important though is the tone of the game. If the people at the table are okay with things getting Grim Dark then in most cases torture can be fluffed away with a few Hail Mary's while the Inquisitor is refreshing his daily spells. Truth be told, an Inquisitor built for it really have no need to for an investigation to pass beyond a few harsh words and a slap across the face. They get tons fact finding steroids with Stern Gaze and Discern Lies built in as class abilities. They also have a good number of spells on their spell list dedicated to drawing out answers.

Absolutely. Many players tend to jump straight to the overt "SWEAR TO ME!" style of investigation. But, between their inbuilt mechanics and spell list, Inquisitors have more than enough tools in their toolbox handle any investigation non-violently.

Doesn't the Earthbreaker deal bludgeoning damage? Did someone explain that to WAR?

What? That beautiful hunk of a Metal can totally deal bludgeon damage by smashing people with the runic face. The tusks on the sides are just there for decoration.

Buy what I meant is the Swashbuckler's ability to make a 5ft-step out of turn, possibly removing himself from the reach of melee characters and denying the opponent his full attack. But to be fair, I think they removed that.

Ah whoops, you meant the Dodging Panache ability. That's still listed on Jirelle and as far as I can tell is unchanged from Playtest V.2.

I'm more worried about this ability making SBs effectively immune to full attacks.

According to the Jirelle's level 3 Pregen from Risen from the Sands, this ability has been nerfed since the play test. Now Swashies have to be proactive and not reactive when using this ability. They have to declare that they're going to attempt to parry before the opponent rolls to attack. So instead of Swashies waiting to see if an attack would've beaten their AC, and then parrying, they have to take a gamble.

MagusJanus wrote:

Dustin Ashe wrote:

So Crowe has dissociative identity disorder?

No. What they're describing is a berserker rage. It's entirely different from DID and a lot scarier.

I thought a berserker worked herself into a rage. In this case, it seems entirely outside of Crowe's control.

And is it normal for a berserker to have no memory of her rage?

Fluff-wise, it varies from person to person. Some have the traditional berserker who a driven by a hot, frothing at the mouth rage. Others have harnessed it for a cold, extremely focused rage. Then there are those like Crowe that have a Hulk/Bruce Banner style of rage.

So what kind of armor is he wearing?

In his level 3 Pregen, Crowe was wearing masterwork Steel Lamellar.

Without a properly enchanted weapon, to represent their sheer ability to physically avoid an attack, I'd allow a player at my table to attempt a parry with a penalty to the attack roll. No chance at a Riposte though.
With the changes to Opportune Parry and Riposte, I doubt any of my players would want to except that penalty except in a life or death situation.

*Edit:This is still my personal opinion on the subject*

The tools with which we wage war often times matter as much as the reason for the war. Simply because the target is "evil" and is going to die anyway does not justify using every available means of destroying it. A real world parallel would be that it's considered morally reprehensible to drop a nuke on someone or to use chemical/biological armaments. Yes, Real World Logic doesn't always translate into fantasy Murder Hobo Logic. However it's still something to be considered.

Spellstrike Gloves are a pretty useful Magus only item. However it's not one that's on the top of many Magi's most wanted lists.

"As with steal ki, some monks believe that life funnel is an unsavory act."

An unsavory act, like using the wrong sauce.

Wee bit out of context, the full sentence was, "As with steal ki, some monks believe that life funnel is an unsavory act, no better than what the undead do to the living."

That's more extreme than just slapping some BBQ sauce on a fine cut of meat.

Again though, this is all flavor text. There is no defined ruling on the morality of this archetype. If your home group views pulling a Shang Tsung as Kosher, then it's Kosher.

Okay, let's use the Murder Hobo Logic. I challenge you to name one good god of Golarian who would sanctify the theft of another's ki energy.

Ask yourself this simple question, "Is Stealing ever a Good action?". I don't care about extenuating circumstances or BS excuses like "It was for the Greater Good". At the heart of it, by most civil standards, is stealing ever anything else but a form of evil?

You're forcible taking and robbing someone of their Ki Energy. Ki can be used fuel all kinds of crazy stuff. Now ask yourself this, "Does that seem like something they're not going miss?"

If your character and your GM is ok with sugar coating it with Murder Hobo Logic then sure, Ki Leeching is a perfectly a good action.

*Edit, Blah Ninja'd*

#1)I see a scenario where using Moonlight Bridge more than twice in a row could be an issue. The bride is summoned touching a point adjacent to the Oracle and the bridge also despawns after the Oracle crosses it, right?

Let's say you're trying to cross a canyon. You create Bridge #1 anchored on the side of the canyon you're on and other end is hanging off in space. If you walk to the end of Bridge #1, summon Bridge #2 onto the end of Bridge #1, and then cross onto Bridge #2, Bridge #1 vanishes. So, if Bridge #2 isn't anchored to the other end of the canyon, it's probably going to fall into the gap with nothing to support it.

|._._._.|
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|.1.2.3.|

Adam B. 135 wrote:

LoneKnave wrote:

Your sample size is quite small to make generalizations like that.

It's also pretty much true, the only class we actually got some mechanical change reported on was a massive nerf.

We did actually get some changes reported on the investigator post that Insain Dragoon did see. The action for studying a foe became a move action and studied combat now gives half the Investigator's level to damage too.

I totally forgot the investigator! That one had a nice balance of new info, and that new info not being nerfs. Also don't remember any rage from there.

Oh there was a fair number of people complaining about the Investigator Preview as well. Mainly just griping about how long it takes for Investigators to get Studied Combat/Strike and how it wasn't Sneak Attack. Really a molehill compared to the mountain that certain people turned the Warpriest Preview into.

Well how about we put in the entire list somewhere and just guestimate for now based on the names what could be what.

To avoid breaking up the blog post too much, I saved one spoiler for the comments section. Since you all have been so patient with us and so supportive in our quest to bring home The Gauntlet, here is the complete list of archetypes that will be making an appearance in the Advanced Class Guide, due out this August. Of course, I am not going to tell you which class they belong too. I will let you speculate on that! :)

Animist, blade adept, blood arcanist, blood conduit, bloodrider, bolt ace, bounty hunter, brown-fur transmuter, champion of the faith, cleaner, counterfeit mage, crossblooded rager, cult leader, cutthroat, daring champion, daring infiltrator, deliverer, disenchanter, divine commander, divine hunter, divine tracker, ecclesitheurge, eldritch font, eldritch scion, eldritch scrapper, elemental master, empiricist, exemplar, exploiter wizard, fated champion, feral hunter, feral shifter, flame dancer, flying blade, forgepriest, grave warden, greenrager, herald of the horn, hex channeler, holy guide, hooded champion, infiltrator, inspired blade, kata master, martial master, mastermind, metamagic rager, mongrel mage, mountain witch, mouser, musketeer, mutagenic mauler, mutation warrior, mysterious avenger, naturalist, nature fang, occultist, packmaster, picaroon, possessed shaman, primal companion hunter, primalist, psychic searcher, rageshaper, sacred fist, sacred huntsmaster, sanctified slayer, school savant, shield champion, sleuth, snakebite striker, sniper, speaker for the past, spell sage, spell specialist, spell warrior, spelleater, spirit guide, spirit summoner, spirit warden, spirit whisperer, spiritualist, steel hound, steel-breaker, steelblood, strangler, stygian slayer, temple champion, totemic skald, underground chemist, unlettered arcanist, unsworn shaman, untouchable rager, vanguard, verminous hunter, visionary, voice of the wild, warsighted, white mage, wild child, wild hunter, wild whisperer, wildcat, and witch doctor.

Thanks again for supporting Paizo. We look forward to...

Syrinx and Strix are both bird people races with natural fly speed if you don't mind not transforming. Though with +2 Wis and -2 Dex, the owl-like Syrinx aren't the best chassis to build a fighter off of.

If you got some free time you might want to look over some of the example Oracle Backgrounds from Ultimate Campaign. Some great idea seeds there about possible ways you discovered that you had powers.

I'm refering to the "if the inquisitor has cleric levels, one of her two domain selections must be the same domain selected as an inquisitor." part.

Let's say when Bob the Inquisitor starts off he decides to take the Chivalry Inquisition instead of a Domain. At level 3 Bob decides to pick up a level of Cleric. He can then only choose 1 new Domain/Inquisition and not 2 because one of his Cleric Domains/Inquisitions has to be Chivalry as well.

There's no language restricting Inquisitions in the APG because when the APG was written, Inquisitions didn't exist yet. However since Inquisitions are in place of Domains, they follow the same rules of stacking that Domains do.

...so a Inquisitor/Cleric could have 3 Inquisitions.

No, this isn't true. Cleric/Inquisitors are still limited to a maximum combo of 2 Domains or Inquisitions.

If the inquisitor has cleric levels, one of her two domain selections must be the same domain selected as an inquisitor. Levels of cleric and inquisitor stack for the purpose of determining domain powers and abilities, but not for bonus spells.

Inquisitions(Which were introduced after the APG was released) follow the same limitations as Domains so you can't have more than 2 of them on the same character.

*Edit* This is my Personal Opinion.

It's not a question of, "Should there be balance?", and more of a question of, "Can there be balance between the classes?". Unfortunately, no it's not possible. This is not really Paizo's fault truth be told. Pathfinder is built on the back of older and antiqued(by modern standards) D&D/d20 editions. Without a total strip down and full overhaul of every single class, they can not be balanced.

In 3.5 DnD there was the Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords. That book introduced Maneuvers and Stances which were an attempt to give Martial classes access to mundane "spells" to reflect their skill at arms. But that book had very mixed reactions among players. Many players who enjoyed classes like Fighter and Rogues enjoyed having access to these new semi-spells. Players who largely favored divine/arcane classes flamed that book for daring to give Martials toys that properly belong exclusively in the realm of mystics. Dreamscarred Press has recently done a fairly good job revamping that book to work for Pathfinder as "Path of War".

I like to think of Oracles and Clerics like Sorcerers and Wizards. Wizards need to read through tomes of spellbooks to learn to cast and most Clerics have to supplicate themselves before a higher being to get them to toss the Cleric a bone. Sorcerers are born with magic in their blood and Oracles are force fed power rather they wanted it or not. Wizards and Clerics always know how and where they got their mojo, while with Sorcerers and Oracles it's not always clear what's powering them.

This thread has made me go back and take a long, hard look at the Inquisitor... man, I forgot how much that class gets! Especially with some of those Inquisition options. I'm starting to hope that the Warpriest was compared against them for balancig. Or failing that, I can build most of the same concepts with a book I already have and would only need to dip into the Warpriest for weird weapon weilders (A WWWW if you will.)

Aye, Paizo did a phenomenal job while designing Inquisitors to be Divine Bards. Yea, it may not have the innate group support of baseline Bards, but the Inquisitor chassis is still extremely versatile and can be built to fill a wide variety of party roles. The sheer number of Domains and Inquisitions it has access to really open up some interesting options for them.

The question I have is, does the "invest a single thrown weapon with a single touch or ranged spell" part prevent it from doing attacks/rays per level spells such as Frostbite or Scorching Ray if the weapon isn't recovered?

Also, if you have Close Quarter's Thrower, could you use a melee weapon with a natural throw range like a Trident or a Starknife enchanted with Returning or Calling to Spell Combat in melee and then chuck it for the "ranged" Spell Strike?

in the harrower book that came out recently is a card caster.

While it's originally meant for primarily using throwing cards, I think it actually allows you to spell strike with any ranged weapon.

Harrowed Spellstrike (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, a card caster can invest a single thrown weapon with a single touch or ranged spell as part of the spell’s normal casting time. The spell must target a single creature, and the spell’s range changes to match the thrown weapon’s range increment. This ability otherwise functions identically to spellstrike, except it can only be applied to thrown ranged weapons instead of melee attacks. This ability replaces and modifies spellstrike.

The Card Caster archetype from The Harrow Handbook is limited to Spell Striking with thrown weapons only.

Sigh. When is the Advanced Advanced Class Guide coming out? I'm still trying to be hopeful. Does the Warpriest get a full-BAB archetype? When do we finally get to play what we want to play?

Amazon has it list as coming out September 2, 2014. Though by this point all the text for it is pretty much st in stone. We have a list of all the Archetypes for ACG. But all we know is just their names, not what classes they're for or what they do. Well, we know the class for a few of them because Operion released the art he was commissioned to do for some of them. Also we know Flying Blade=Swashbuckler, Spiritualist=Investigator, and Divine Commander=Warpriest from the image urls in the class previews.

I couldn't find Card Magus anywhere, but personally I'd rule that you would get the attack bonus from WF: Dart with cards based on the first sentence of Deadly Dealer.

Cartomancer(Witch), Card Caster(Magus), and other archetypes that interact with the deck were added in The Harrow Handbook last month.

Blah, you crazy cats, don't make me pull the garden hose!

What sort of inquisitor? What's your combat focus?

We're playing through the Jade Regent, so I'm going for a NG or LN Inquisitor of Shizuru for a katana. Our table has a house rule feat that lets us use swap Str for Wis and a modified version of Disciple of the Sword for any god's favored weapon. Still undecided on feats and Domain/Inquisition. mainly waiting to see what the other people at the table build so I can fill in the gaps. Though a part of me want's to go down the path of madness with Tsukiyo, grab some ranger spells, and a white tiger with the Animal(Feather) Domain.

Yoho folks. I'm going outside my wheelhouse a bit and I'm thinking of either making a Samasaran Inquisitor for some Mystic Past Life Shenanigans. Does anyone have suggestions what Paladin spells I should nab that aren't already on the Inquisitor spell list?

For those not already aware of what Mystic Past Life is.

Mystic Past Life (Su) You can add spells from another spellcasting class to the spell list of your current spellcasting class. You add a number of spells equal to 1 + your spellcasting class's key ability score bonus (Wisdom for clerics, and so on). The spells must be the same type (arcane or divine) as the spellcasting class you're adding them to. For example, you could add divine power to your druid class spell list, but not to your wizard class spell list because divine power is a divine spell. These spells do not have to be spells you can cast as a 1st-level character. The number of spells granted by this ability is set at 1st level. Changes to your ability score do not change the number of spells gained. This racial trait replaces shards of the past.

How are you handling the Harrow Strike|Spell Combat dichotomy?

There's a perfectly good reason for Harsk to use a Crossbow. Dwarfs look flat out silly wielding a Longbow and a certain darkskinned elf hipster ruined dual wielding for all rangers.

It's somewhat interesting to note that in the Swashbuckler Iconic Jirelle's level 3 pregen, she doesn't have a dex to damage feat/ability even though she has 13 str and 17 dex. It may have just not been available in time for the pregens or it just may have requirements that she didn't have by level 3. Also they may have just not wanted to spoil ACG content. Also Swashbucklers Finesse or Weapon Finesse weren't listed on her sheet, yet she was still listed as "mwk rapier +7 (1d6+1/18–20) or light mace +6 (1d6+1)" so she was definitely getting a dex to attack mod from somewhere.

Yes, while Warpriests could spontaneously heal/inflict during playtest, the ambiguity came in the "As a swift action, a warpriest can expend one use of this ability to cast any one warpriest spell he has prepared." line. There was some debate over rather or not a spontaneous cure still counts as a prepared spell. Oloch's sheet still has the same language on his pregen sheet for Fervor and Spontaneous Casting.

Also for whatever reason they gave Warpriests spontaneous heal or inflict.

Haven't Warpriests always been able to spontaneously heal/inflict?

As has been stated by Paizo countless times, they do not design the Iconics to meet some standard of power. They make choices for the Iconics that make sense for the character.

Just because they're built for flavor over power doesn't mean we can't critique them and discuss ways they could of been better. :P