Advanced Class Guide

Wednesday, August 28, 2013

Just a few weeks ago, we announced the Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide, an exciting new addition to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game due out next summer. While we talked about it a fair bit at Gencon, this blog post is here to get you caught up on all the news!

This 256-page rulebook will contain 10 new classes, each a mix of two existing classes, taking a bit from each class and adding new mechanics to give you a unique character. Around the office we're calling them "hybrid classes." You can think of the magus (from Ultimate Magic) as our first test of this concept. It takes some rules from the fighter, some rules from the wizard, and then adds its own unique mechanics.

At this point, you're probably wondering what new classes you can expect to see in the Advanced Class Guide. So far, we've announced five of the ten classes.

Bloodrager: This blend of sorcerer and barbarian can call upon the power of his blood whenever he goes into a rage. He also has a limited selection of spells he can call upon, even when in a mindless fury!

Hunter: Taking powers from both the druid and the ranger, the hunter is never without her trusted animal companion, hunting down foes with lethal accuracy.

Shaman: Calling upon the spirits to aid her, the shaman draws upon class features of the oracle and the witch. Each day, she can commune with different spirits to aid her and her allies.

Slayer: Look at all the blood! The slayer blends the rogue and the ranger to create a character that is all about taking down particular targets.

Warpriest: Most religions have martial traditions, and warpriests are often the backbones of such orders. This mix of cleric and fighter can call upon the blessings of the gods to defeat enemies of their faiths.

Of course, those are just half the classes in this book. There are four more we have yet to reveal.

"Four?" you say. "But I thought there were ten!" And you would be right—because I'm about to let you in on another of the classes that will appear in this book, which we haven't announced until this moment!

Swashbuckler: Break out your rapier and your wit! The swashbuckler uses panache and daring to get the job done, blending the powers of the fighter and the gunslinger! For those of you who don't use guns in your campaign, fear not—the base class is not proficient in firearms (although there will certainly be an archetype in the book that fix that).

But that's not all! This book will also contain archetypes for all 10 new classes, as well as a selection to help existing classes play with some of the new features in this book. There will also be feats and spells to support these new classes, as well as magic items that will undoubtedly become favorites for nearly any character. Last but not least, the final chapter in this book will give you a peek inside the design process for classes and archetypes, giving you plenty of tips and guides to build your own! Since class design is more art than science, this won't be a system (like in the Advanced Race Guide), but rather a chapter giving you advice on how the process works.

So, there you go. That's six of the 10 classes that will appear in the Advanced Class Guide and an overview of what else you can expect from this exciting new book. While it's due to release next August, you won't have to wait too long to get your hands on these classes, because we're planning to do a public playtest here this fall! Check back here for more news as the playtest draws close!

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

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Kayland wrote:

Sorry...but I don't see how there's possibly a way to "blend" ranger and druid...they're not enough differences to be able to make a completely separate class.

To me anything and everything that can be thought of as a combination of the two could easily be comprised within adding a singular archetype or two. The same thing could really be said about the warpriest...where I love new class ideas that have come up before (witch, oracle, inquistor etc), several of these sound like they're trying to shoe horn in more classes when they're not needed. I would rather concentrate on 5-6 new classes that are complete in and amongst themselves...than water things down with "half-classes" that truly belong as some simplistic archetype changes.

The Shaman and Bloodrager in the list sound like potential true class options...the others not so much. The swashbuckler was always a roleplaying choice easily accomplished through bardic/rogue archetypes.

Don't forget they are adding new mechanics to each of the classes to help blend them together. Magus could be achieved with Fighter/Wizard, but it added the mechanics SpellCombat/Spellstrike to help blend the two.


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The number of people pleased with the swashbuckler rogue archetype might be able to be counted on one hand. Visit the 'Swashbuckler Base Class Advocacy' thread and most of the people there want a warrior version, not a rogue/bard version.


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Exactly what I was going to say. Rogue and Bard fail to deliver what most people expect out of a Swashbuckler, and the current game mechanics penalize a Dex-based Fighter too much for that class to do the job as well.


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Kayland wrote:

Sorry...but I don't see how there's possibly a way to "blend" ranger and druid...they're not enough differences to be able to make a completely separate class.

To me anything and everything that can be thought of as a combination of the two could easily be comprised within adding a singular archetype or two. The same thing could really be said about the warpriest...where I love new class ideas that have come up before (witch, oracle, inquistor etc), several of these sound like they're trying to shoe horn in more classes when they're not needed. I would rather concentrate on 5-6 new classes that are complete in and amongst themselves...than water things down with "half-classes" that truly belong as some simplistic archetype changes.

The Shaman and Bloodrager in the list sound like potential true class options...the others not so much. The swashbuckler was always a roleplaying choice easily accomplished through bardic/rogue archetypes.

How are the Ranger and Druid that similar besides being nature themed? You have a full martial class with specialized prey and terrain. On the other hand, you have a natural caster with shapeshifting abilities. They really aren't that similar when you get down to it.


And from a design perspective, there's a place for a 3/4 BAB 6/9 divine caster there, even discounting new mechanics.

Liberty's Edge

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Kayland wrote:

Sorry...but I don't see how there's possibly a way to "blend" ranger and druid...they're not enough differences to be able to make a completely separate class.

To me anything and everything that can be thought of as a combination of the two could easily be comprised within adding a singular archetype or two. The same thing could really be said about the warpriest...where I love new class ideas that have come up before (witch, oracle, inquistor etc), several of these sound like they're trying to shoe horn in more classes when they're not needed. I would rather concentrate on 5-6 new classes that are complete in and amongst themselves...than water things down with "half-classes" that truly belong as some simplistic archetype changes.

The Shaman and Bloodrager in the list sound like potential true class options...the others not so much. The swashbuckler was always a roleplaying choice easily accomplished through bardic/rogue archetypes.

I respectfully disagree with almost everything you said. I think all of the announced classes have potential. The shaman and the bloodrager are probably the two I have the least interest in, note I am still interested to see what they do with these concepts.

Ranger and Druid are not as similar as you seem to think. But Albatoonoe said it best in their post above, so I will say no more there.

Swashbuckler without Full BAB sucks period, any class/archetype that tries to be a swashbuckler without Full BAB fails completely in my opinion. Therefore I could not disagree with you more on this point.

All that said this is my opinion on the matter.

Dark Archive

graywulfe wrote:
Kayland wrote:

Sorry...but I don't see how there's possibly a way to "blend" ranger and druid...they're not enough differences to be able to make a completely separate class.

To me anything and everything that can be thought of as a combination of the two could easily be comprised within adding a singular archetype or two. The same thing could really be said about the warpriest...where I love new class ideas that have come up before (witch, oracle, inquistor etc), several of these sound like they're trying to shoe horn in more classes when they're not needed. I would rather concentrate on 5-6 new classes that are complete in and amongst themselves...than water things down with "half-classes" that truly belong as some simplistic archetype changes.

The Shaman and Bloodrager in the list sound like potential true class options...the others not so much. The swashbuckler was always a roleplaying choice easily accomplished through bardic/rogue archetypes.

I respectfully disagree with almost everything you said. I think all of the announced classes have potential. The shaman and the bloodrager are probably the two I have the least interest in, note I am still interested to see what they do with these concepts.

Ranger and Druid are not as similar as you seem to think. But Albatoonoe said it best in their post above, so I will say no more there.

Swashbuckler without Full BAB sucks period, any class/archetype that tries to be a swashbuckler without Full BAB fails completely in my opinion. Therefore I could not disagree with you more on this point.

All that said this is my opinion on the matter.

zorro themed magus?


Zorro don't have spells and the Swashbuckler should not have or need spells.

Zorro/the Swashbuckler should be a full BAB dex based class with (social) skills that can take one a foe one-on-one. He/she shouldn't have do use sneak attack and a flanking buddy to get the job done.

Swashbuckler + Grit = Fine,
Swashbuckler + spells = not fine.

Liberty's Edge

Warpriest is really trying to get into a niche that doesn't exist. I would rather see an unarmored healer class like the archivist (cloistered cleric doesn't cut it).

Hunter is a WoW knockoff. They could at least find a better name.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Coridan wrote:

Hunter is a WoW knockoff. They could at least find a better name.

Actually, it's the D&D ranger that's a WoW knockoff. Animal companion? Check. Ranged weapons expertise? Check. Some magical powers? Check. Man, this whole Gary Gygax guy is lucky to dwell on some planar realm, because Blizzard should totally sue him.

Liberty's Edge

Gorbacz wrote:
Coridan wrote:

Hunter is a WoW knockoff. They could at least find a better name.

Actually, it's the D&D ranger that's a WoW knockoff. Animal companion? Check. Ranged weapons expertise? Check. Some magical powers? Check. Man, this whole Gary Gygax guy is lucky to dwell on some planar realm, because Blizzard should totally sue him.

I would love to favorite this a lot more.


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Still not seeing a point for the Warpriest. I just don't get it. Which is why I am looking forward to the playtest. I want to be surprised and amazed with flavor and crunch that 1: make sense together; and 2: has mechanics that are innovative.

As for the Swashbuckler "needing" a d10/Full BAB, I couldn't agree more, but then I cry every time I look at the monk's d8/3/4 BAB (flurry notwithstanding). Regardless of all his other roles, the Monk should have a d10/Full BAB. Please don't respond by telling me why not. Take it to another thread and beat me senseless with it there. This thread is for the ACG, not monk derailment. Sorry ahead of time devs. ;)

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

There is a nifty swashbuckler thread here.


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Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

Still not seeing a point for the Warpriest. I just don't get it. Which is why I am looking forward to the playtest. I want to be surprised and amazed with flavor and crunch that 1: make sense together; and 2: has mechanics that are innovative.

As for the Swashbuckler "needing" a d10/Full BAB, I couldn't agree more, but then I cry every time I look at the monk's d8/3/4 BAB (flurry notwithstanding). Regardless of all his other roles, the Monk should have a d10/Full BAB. Please don't respond by telling me why not. Take it to another thread and beat me senseless with it there. This thread is for the ACG, not monk derailment. Sorry ahead of time devs. ;)

So then why even bring it up here, if it's for another thread?


Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

Still not seeing a point for the Warpriest. I just don't get it. Which is why I am looking forward to the playtest. I want to be surprised and amazed with flavor and crunch that 1: make sense together; and 2: has mechanics that are innovative.

As for the Swashbuckler "needing" a d10/Full BAB, I couldn't agree more, but then I cry every time I look at the monk's d8/3/4 BAB (flurry notwithstanding). Regardless of all his other roles, the Monk should have a d10/Full BAB. Please don't respond by telling me why not. Take it to another thread and beat me senseless with it there. This thread is for the ACG, not monk derailment. Sorry ahead of time devs. ;)

the point of the warpriest IMO is to provide a paladinesque niche for the other 7 alignments. As for the argument that cleric can fill this role a cleric could fill the paladin role as well. Still gets a lot of play


2 questions:
1. Do we have even a rumored date for the start of the playtest, and
2. Do we even have rumors of what the other 5 classes are?


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
ecw1701 wrote:

2 questions:

1. Do we have even a rumored date for the start of the playtest, and
2. Do we even have rumors of what the other 5 classes are?

Actually, there are 3 we do not know about. We are told that there will be a total of 10 new classes and they tell us 6 of them in this article. Multiple other posters have posted here that there is another one they talked about at one of the conventions that is not on the list of 6 here; the arcanist. That leaves 3 that we do not know about.


1,167 posts is a lot to go through...do you happen to remember the 6th one that's been announced?

Either way, thanks for the heads up!


Arcanist was the sixth one. I have no idea what it is, since I've heard three different versions of what it does. But, there you go.


Odraude wrote:
Arcanist was the sixth one. I have no idea what it is, since I've heard three different versions of what it does. But, there you go.

Its supposed to be a spontaneous caster but can "prepare" his spells known daily.

A middle ground between sorcerer and wizard if you will.


Ashanderai wrote:
ecw1701 wrote:

2 questions:

1. Do we have even a rumored date for the start of the playtest, and
2. Do we even have rumors of what the other 5 classes are?
Actually, there are 3 we do not know about. We are told that there will be a total of 10 new classes and they tell us 6 of them in this article. Multiple other posters have posted here that there is another one they talked about at one of the conventions that is not on the list of 6 here; the arcanist. That leaves 3 that we do not know about.

I thought Ashanderai meant there were 7 announced: those 5, the Arcanist,and some other one.

I'd like to jump on the 'Arcanist seems redundant' and 'I want to see a viable Wizard/Cleric and/or Wizard/Druid class' hype trains, though.

I have a soft spot for Mystic Theurges and Arcane Hierophants.


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I want a 1/2 BAB full divine caster. That would sit so well with me, I could make tons of characters with the concept.

Shadow Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Isn't the witch a cleric/wizard hybrid? She has a good selection of wax and cleric spells. As to a 1/2 BAB full divine, isn't the cleric a 3/4 BAB divine? Have I missed something in the 1000's of posts prior


Cat-thulhu wrote:

Isn't the witch a cleric/wizard hybrid? She has a good selection of wax and cleric spells. As to a 1/2 BAB full divine, isn't the cleric a 3/4 BAB divine? Have I missed something in the 1000's of posts prior

Yes a cleric is a 3/4 BAB Divine.

I'm talking about a 1/2 BAB, like a wizard.


Cat-thulhu wrote:

Isn't the witch a cleric/wizard hybrid? She has a good selection of wax and cleric spells. As to a 1/2 BAB full divine, isn't the cleric a 3/4 BAB divine? Have I missed something in the 1000's of posts prior

Witch is pretty good, yes...but I don't like how specialized you have to be. You can do anything, but not everything; and that's not good for an old (confessed) power gamer like me. Not to mention they get a lot of spells, but are missing a lot of the foundational ones. To me, Witches are almost like casting super-Bards.


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Basically, take the cleric, lower the HP and BAB, and remove the weapon and armor proficiencies, but give it something like a witch's hexes to keep it fun and give it cool stuff. A lot of people really want a more "robes 'n casty" priest instead of the armored cleric, but don't want to have the unused proficiencies that the cleric would give you. I think I'd like to see a class like that. Think more White Mage from Final Fantasy, which I can totally dig.


Uh, where did my post go?

Shadow Lodge RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

The Hunter and the Arcanist are actually the two I'm most excited about at this point.


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Monk + Cleric class would be nice.

I hope the playtest is soon or at least they reveal the other classes really soon.

Ever since they made the oracle class I have wished that the sorcerer's bloodline abilities were set up like the oracle with 10 abilities per bloodline and you 7 slots + plus a extra bloodline feat so you could get all 10 if you want. I really wished they got supernatural attack abilities so they had something to use that wouldn't provoke or require a concentration check.


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Dragon78 wrote:

Monk + Cleric class would be nice.

I hope the playtest is soon or at least they reveal the other classes really soon.

Ever since they made the oracle class I have wished that the sorcerer's bloodline abilities were set up like the oracle with 10 abilities per bloodline and you 7 slots + plus a extra bloodline feat so you could get all 10 if you want. I really wished they got supernatural attack abilities so they had something to use that wouldn't provoke or require a concentration check.

I wasn't around for the APG playtest, but I don't really get the reason to have a "divine sorcerer" receive a penalty like that. No other class has such a thing. The closest thing is the alignment restrictions of the monk, paladin, and barbarian; and the armor restrictions for arcane casting, which can be overcome (for the most part) by taking a couple feats. Honestly, compared to the sorcerer, the oracle is not that great. Remove the curse, and oracle gets better. I personally wish the oracle was more like the sorcerer.

Also, I wonder why they haven't made any other oracle curses. APG, UM, and Blood of Angels/Fiends are the only books with curses in them, and I wish they would make more. But I just hate being punished for wanting to play a class.

Personally, I would love a cleric/wizard hybrid class similar to the archivist from Heroes of Horror. A 1/2 BAB, unarmored divine caster that has a prayerbook in which he prepares his spells like the wizard. Not sure about the dark knowledge ability, as it's a situational version of the bard, in that aspect.


I think the Curse is fitting for the Fluff of the Oracle...

Though I would like to see a "White Mage" as well.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
ecw1701 wrote:
Ashanderai wrote:
ecw1701 wrote:

2 questions:

1. Do we have even a rumored date for the start of the playtest, and
2. Do we even have rumors of what the other 5 classes are?
Actually, there are 3 we do not know about. We are told that there will be a total of 10 new classes and they tell us 6 of them in this article. Multiple other posters have posted here that there is another one they talked about at one of the conventions that is not on the list of 6 here; the arcanist. That leaves 3 that we do not know about.

I thought Ashanderai meant there were 7 announced: those 5, the Arcanist,and some other one.

I'd like to jump on the 'Arcanist seems redundant' and 'I want to see a viable Wizard/Cleric and/or Wizard/Druid class' hype trains, though.

I have a soft spot for Mystic Theurges and Arcane Hierophants.

The sixth is the Swashbuckler which is a Fighter/Gusnlinger combo. Probably a fighter type with grit.


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Is it bad that Swashbuckler is the one I am really interested in?

Well I am kinda Intrigued by the Warpriest...


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Everytime the Blog post is a little late, I get excited that it is being delayed because they are putting up the playtest.

I'm curious that there hasn't even been a leak about what the next last few classes are going to be.


Yeah, I'm curious why there hasn't been any update at all since the original blog post. I think it was Jason that did an interview about it, and he said they wanted the playtest to start by the end of september.

Shadow Lodge

Golo wrote:

Everytime the Blog post is a little late, I get excited that it is being delayed because they are putting up the playtest.

I'm curious that there hasn't even been a leak about what the next last few classes are going to be.

They promised us more information before the playtest, so shouldn't they have announced the other classes already? If they won't give us the playtest it'd be nice to at least know what to look forward to in the other 3 classes.


Dylos wrote:
They promised us more information before the playtest, so shouldn't they have announced the other classes already? If they won't give us the playtest it'd be nice to at least know what to look forward to in the other 3 classes.

And they said this fall, so they have till December 20th to begin the test, and 10 minutes before that to tell us ahead of time what the new classes are.

-- david


Golo wrote:

Everytime the Blog post is a little late, I get excited that it is being delayed because they are putting up the playtest.

I'm curious that there hasn't even been a leak about what the next last few classes are going to be.

I just had this exact conversation with my group. I'm also very surprised that no more classes have leaked. Wouldn't be a mindphreak if even they didn't know yet?

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kayland wrote:

Sorry...but I don't see how there's possibly a way to "blend" ranger and druid...they're not enough differences to be able to make a completely separate class.

Well, maybe when you see people who do this for a living come up with, you'll have your answer.


ecw1701 wrote:
I just had this exact conversation with my group. I'm also very surprised that no more classes have leaked. Wouldn't be a mindphreak if even they didn't know yet?

They shall be spontaneously created by the collective will of the Paizo followers.


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Cthulhudrew wrote:
ecw1701 wrote:
I just had this exact conversation with my group. I'm also very surprised that no more classes have leaked. Wouldn't be a mindphreak if even they didn't know yet?
They shall be spontaneously created by the collective will of the Paizo followers.

...I am now afraid.

My new goal is to destroy this book.

The world is not yet ready for a Cosmo base class. Not for many a year. Century. Aeon. Eternity.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Cheapy wrote:
Cthulhudrew wrote:
ecw1701 wrote:
I just had this exact conversation with my group. I'm also very surprised that no more classes have leaked. Wouldn't be a mindphreak if even they didn't know yet?
They shall be spontaneously created by the collective will of the Paizo followers.

...I am now afraid.

My new goal is to destroy this book.

The world is not yet ready for a Cosmo base class. Not for many a year. Century. Aeon. Eternity.

only in the time thereafter, will we be ready. But our only warning will be the bone chilling sound of Cosmo's laugh, echoing from the darkness.


We have all three of the classes. They are no doubt saving the remaining three for the immediate run up to the announcement of the playtest, or for the playtest itself. You don't want to give away all the surprise before the playtest.


MMCJawa wrote:
We have all three of the classes. They are no doubt saving the remaining three for the immediate run up to the announcement of the playtest, or for the playtest itself. You don't want to give away all the surprise before the playtest.

Yes, but we know the names of those classes and nothing else about them. We don't know how they'll work mechanically, or anything else about them. The names / class combos won't negatively impact that that much.

Still, it's kept us guessing for 3 months so there must be something to it.

BTW, I'm putting in a prediction for an Amy Alchy/AM BARBARIAN hybrid. 100% spell resistance and rage/lance/pounce as a class ability. +20 to spell sunder attempts, -40 against saves vs FAQ rulings.


If we suppose that the first six announced classes are "set in stone" and will appear in one form or another, then for three of the remaining classes, it would be interesting to have a CG and LE champion to complement the Paladin and Antipaladin. I derived some of my own homebrew classes and put them up on these messageboards and (IMHO) they were enough differences that they could be treated as more than just variants on a single theme.

For the one remaining "class slot," how about some kind of class based on luck? This is the character concept of the "lucky hero" as someone who manages to survive every situation they find themselves in, no matter the odds, and not by virtue of their innate skills or talents (or perhaps in spite of them). The lucky hero isn't totally inept but the gods seem to clearly favor him without actually claiming him (or he would be a paladin, or cleric, or something like that). A fantasy version of Ferris Beuhler, perhaps, or the character who was just Born Lucky.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BornLucky

Of course, this concept might work as a prestige class too. The lucky hero usually has a day job.

Before anyone else says it: It would probably be really hard to make this class balance well with the other classes, especially if the class gains abilities in of itself that summarily enhance die rolls made by the character. The Lucky Hero would have to be designed to avoid making it game-breakingly absurd for any character NOT to level-dip into it.


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I had an interesting idea in that Paizo is redoing all of the base classes in a way similar to the magus in an attempt to get the game away from the traditional 3.5 classes.

Hunter may be our spontaneous druid, with a little more combat focus and less wild shapyness.

Warpriest may be a redone cleric.

Arcanist may replace the wizard.

Swashbuckler may do what we've always wanted the fighter to do.

Slayer could be a fix of the rogue that people have been asking for.

It's all possible.


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I have it on good authority that one of the remaining unannounced classes is a Wabbit Hunter.


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It is against the forum policies to spread FUDD*.

*:

(F)ear, (U)ncertainty, (D)oubt, (D)ementedness


Cheapy wrote:
Cthulhudrew wrote:
ecw1701 wrote:
I just had this exact conversation with my group. I'm also very surprised that no more classes have leaked. Wouldn't be a mindphreak if even they didn't know yet?
They shall be spontaneously created by the collective will of the Paizo followers.

...I am now afraid.

My new goal is to destroy this book.

The world is not yet ready for a Cosmo base class. Not for many a year. Century. Aeon. Eternity.

Sorry to be offtopic, but what exactly is this Cosmo I hear fairly frequently?


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Adjule wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
Cthulhudrew wrote:
ecw1701 wrote:
I just had this exact conversation with my group. I'm also very surprised that no more classes have leaked. Wouldn't be a mindphreak if even they didn't know yet?
They shall be spontaneously created by the collective will of the Paizo followers.

...I am now afraid.

My new goal is to destroy this book.

The world is not yet ready for a Cosmo base class. Not for many a year. Century. Aeon. Eternity.

Sorry to be offtopic, but what exactly is this Cosmo I hear fairly frequently?

Behold the Cosmo

Observe the Cosmo
Fear the Cosmo
Flee the Cosmo

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