More About Paizo Game Space

Hearing that this is getting closer is exciting.

Is there any idea yet of how much support there will be at launch for all the custom maps that appear in PFS scenarios?

Will we be able to purchase PFS scenarios as a bundle that has all the tokens, maps, and other bits used by that scenario?

Features I'd like to see:
* Ability to take session notes that one can easily save at the end
* Ability to export an updated character profile that includes any changes made during the session to XP, gold, as well as the session notes. It would be nice if these could be recorded per session as well as adjusting the global values.

grins devilishly
Will there eventually be more PFS support to include:
* Support for virtual sign in sheets like are used for PFS today
* Ability for the GM to tie the virtual sign in sheet to an already created PFS event or new (generic, online) event
* Virtual chronicles where the GM fills in the various bits including any custom notes that need to be added
* Have the virtual chronicles be printable with a digital signature in place of the GM's handwritten signature to obviate the need for the GM to mail out hand-written chronicles
* Automated event reporting when the chronicles are distributed, tied in with the virtual sign in sheet mentioned above
* Support for recording prestige gained and spent as part of the general session annotations requested above
* Show prestige and fame values as part of character profiles. This would just be a nice to have so GMs can assist players when purchasing items or spellcasting services
* GM visibility into PC history, showing past virtual chronicles and a list of other scenarios played. This would only show information currently viewable on a paper chronicle.

Good Stuff

Yeah, what he said. :-)

There are a LOT of possible ways to integrate the virtual tabletop with Pathfinder Society. I don't want to promise anything specifically but let's just say we're really intrigued and excited by what we could do there.

Sigh... I might as well just have my paycheck direct deposited into Paizo's account...

Sigh... I might as well just have my paycheck direct deposited into Paizo's account...

Wasn't that one of the new website upgrades?

How will characters and character sheets be handled there?
Do you need to own all the Paizo content to be able to use it with the program? Or can i use hellcat stealth without owning the Cheliax book i.e.?

Or is this really just a virtual gamemap?
And you still need at least 2 Computers right? One GM, one Players?

Fantasy Grounds is pretty but it also costs a base line of $24 dollars per player + $39 for the GM. While I as a GM dont mind paying for a license to run the game more than a few players that I know are going to go with the lower cost solution (i.e. FREE) for this sort of thing. Free with the OPTION to pay more for more features seems to be the trend these days I think.

Or free with the option of staying free and having any feature you can think of.

ShinHakkaider wrote:

Fantasy Grounds is pretty but it also costs a base line of $24 dollars per player + $39 for the GM. While I as a GM dont mind paying for a license to run the game more than a few players that I know are going to go with the lower cost solution (i.e. FREE) for this sort of thing. Free with the OPTION to pay more for more features seems to be the trend these days I think.

Or free with the option of staying free and having any feature you can think of.

Yeah you and I obviously are looking at different definitions of value and what's worth paying for as an added feature.

If Paizo is willing to provide quality scans / images of Maps and tokens that I dont have to copy from PDF's myself? Then yeah, I'm willing to pay extra for that. That's time I'm not burning doing the work myself.

Roll20 is pretty much free and has enough barebones stuff to allow me to run a game with very little problem. I dont have to download and install anything. It's easy as hell to get people to actually connect and join your game and vice versa. If Paizo Game table is anything as easy as that AND has maps and tokens for the AP's and modules for sale as add ons? It may not be of interest to you but for me and mine? SOLD.

If they did decide to go the Maptools route I'd walk away from it just like I walked away from MapTools...

How will characters and character sheets be handled there?

Do you need to own all the Paizo content to be able to use it with the program? Or can i use hellcat stealth without owning the Cheliax book i.e.?

Or is this really just a virtual gamemap?
And you still need at least 2 Computers right? One GM, one Players?

From what Gary originally said, this is going to be system agnostic, not a PFRPG simulator.

I also expect it'll be possible to use one computer, but less than optimal.

Hayato Ken wrote:

How will characters and character sheets be handled there?

Do you need to own all the Paizo content to be able to use it with the program? Or can i use hellcat stealth without owning the Cheliax book i.e.?

Or is this really just a virtual gamemap?
And you still need at least 2 Computers right? One GM, one Players?

From what Gary originally said, this is going to be system agnostic, not a PFRPG simulator.

I also expect it'll be possible to use one computer, but less than optimal.

That´s a real deal, because around here, folks don´t tend to have tablets. More like a desktop and perhaps a Laptop, which is big and bulky. Having either at the gaming table is a big choice becasue of the space and visibility.

But if its only for mapping etc, might really be cool.
But then i´m totally with Evil Lincoln, do custom map packs etc, but also do supporting stuff for the modules and adventure paths, perhaps even for PFS!

I'd really like to get tablet support working really well because it's cool. It's not going to be a primary focus, at least at first, just because there are so many aspects to focus on. But we have done some testing for tablets and phones and whatnot. My favorite experiment was having the map full screen on the computer and running the combat on the phone...

That would definately get me!
Although, 1d60+3 initiative for a fire skeleton?LoL!

I could then do the GM stuff on my Galaxy3 and have the players see what they should on tablet/desktop/laptop. Supercool.
Can two instances of the browser then work together? Like one is logged in as GM and the other as player and all see different things?

I'd really like to get tablet support working really well because it's cool. It's not going to be a primary focus, at least at first, just because there are so many aspects to focus on. But we have done some testing for tablets and phones and whatnot. My favorite experiment was having the map full screen on the computer and running the combat on the phone...

As a gamer who relies on his iPad for a number of uses on and off the table I can't begin to describe how awesome it would be for me and my players (a number of whom are distance players skyped in) to be able to use tablets (especially iPad) for this.

Still, I do understand why it's not quite the main focus at this time.

If this works well, I can see ditching my battlemat and plugging my extra laptop into the 43" widescreen TV so the players can see the map that way and move their tokens around.

I'm just curious to find out if AP subscribers will have access to the maps in their APs for use in this offering.

Does Paizo offer an "indentured servitude" plan? It would be cheaper for me...

Does Paizo offer an "indentured servitude" plan? It would be cheaper for me...

Yes we do! Step right over here, and you'll get not one, but *two* free copies of everything Paizo makes!

You don´t happen to need someone who can speak german, english, chinese, some japanese and spanish and knows sociology and statistics?

Yeah you and I obviously are looking at different definitions of value and what's worth paying for as an added feature.

Again we're at the level where some smart dude told you "MapTool is you spending years on it" and you fell for it.

If Paizo is willing to provide quality scans / images of Maps and tokens that I dont have to copy from PDF's myself? Then yeah, I'm willing to pay extra for that. That's time I'm not burning doing the work myself.

And again, that could have been done with a MapTool basis as well. There are already maps and stuff for free and for sale, around the net, that you can use in MapTool. In this, Paizo would have been a seller of its own stuff. It's not more complicated than that.

Roll20 is pretty much free and has enough barebones stuff to allow me to run a game with very little problem. I dont have to download and install anything.

True, with MapTool you have to do the titanic and time-consuming work of downloading a small zip one time, unzip it and even double click the launcher to start immediately. Think what hell would it be if you even had to install it.

But alright, I'm not talking about MapTool anymore in this thread. It's just that it makes me smile to read certain people thinking MapTool is the devil for no concrete reason.

But alright, I'm not talking about MapTool anymore in this thread. It's just that it makes me smile to read certain people thinking MapTool is the devil for no concrete reason.

In the Rise of the Runelords game I play in, we use MapTool. Honestly, I have no clue why we haven't migrated to another service yet because, while it's an excellent application in theory, it crashes constantly, making it more of an annoyance than it's worth, in my opinion. Of course, there's a thousand possible reasons for this, but at the end of the day we're in it to have fun, and spending hours trying to figure out why a piece of software won't work isn't my idea of fun.

So my hope with GameSpace is that it'll make for a much more smooth experience than MapTools since, as I understand it, it only requires that you log into your Paizo account and then you're golden. Of course there's still a million things that can go wrong, as is the case with everything online, but I'm hopeful that it'll provide a better service for the group I'm in than MapTool has so far. The fact that it'll provide full support for Paizo's products is definitely a major plus.

My intent isn't to make a stab at MapTool since, when it works properly, it's a very good piece of software. I'm just in the camp that hopes that GameSpace might do what MapTool can't for my group. Make VTT a fun tool for us.

Brutesquad07 wrote:

Does Paizo offer an "indentured servitude" plan? It would be cheaper for me...

Yes we do! Step right over here, and you'll get not one, but *two* free copies of everything Paizo makes!

But where's the post looking for a Retail Store Manager with 15 years of added experience and extensive schooling in the Horticultural field?

Hint: It is such a rare combination of skills that no one has managed to find the right niche thus far.

I can tell you where all of the best regions to produce wines, fruits, grains and nut crops are on your maps though! That has to be worth...never mind I can't even sell me on it...

Liz Courts wrote:

Brutesquad07 wrote:

Does Paizo offer an "indentured servitude" plan? It would be cheaper for me...

Yes we do! Step right over here, and you'll get not one, but *two* free copies of everything Paizo makes!

But where's the post looking for a Retail Store Manager with 15 years of added experience and extensive schooling in the Horticultural field?

Hint: It is such a rare combination of skills that no one has managed to find the right niche thus far.

I can tell you where all of the best regions to produce wines, fruits, grains and nut crops are on your maps though! That has to be worth...never mind I can't even sell me on it...

Very interested in the product being discussed, but this post made me laugh out loud. Great stuff!

Astral Wanderer:

The reason I like Roll20 vs Maptool: it took me 20minutes to figure out Roll20 as a player. It took me another 40 or so to figure it out as a GM. And when I say 'figure it out'. I mean pretty much all of it. It is rediculously simple. Maptool is not. I tried Maptool, it is great, once you get past the steep learning curve.

More on-topic: I hope Paizo's VTT is a bit of Maptool and a bit of Roll20. Simple to use but more robust than Roll20 is. We shall see. :)

- Gauss

In the Rise of the Runelords game I play in, we use MapTool. Honestly, I have no clue why we haven't migrated to another service yet because, while it's an excellent application in theory, it crashes constantly, making it more of an annoyance than it's worth, in my opinion.

My subjective experience is that build 63 is more stable than any subsequent build. But unless you're dependent on an automated macro framework in MapTool, there's not a lot of reason not to switch to Roll20.

True, with MapTool you have to do the titanic and time-consuming work of downloading a small zip one time, unzip it and even double click the launcher to start immediately. Think what hell would it be if you even had to install it.

And all that shameful toil just for the sake of having a program where you can have someone else's work made ready for you (for free) and/or add and custom things the way you like (for free) with exactly what you need and can't find immediately ready in the web. Truly devilish, ain't it?

Of course, if you actually want to connect with some players to run the game, you need to configure your router by methods which differ from router type and OS. That's the single biggest obstacle, and yes, it is annoying. Every 3-4 sessions, having to look up the IPs and reassign them and reset the router dumping all the other internet users in my house for 5 minutes.

The fact is, installation IS a chore, it's just one you're accustomed to. And network setup is a chore even for people who know how it all works. Browser based applications have neither of these drawbacks, so I'm never going back.

My subjective experience is that build 63 is more stable than any subsequent build. But unless you're dependent on an automated macro framework in MapTool, there's not a lot of reason not to switch to Roll20.

Heh, my guess is that's exactly why we haven't switched yet. Some of the other players sure like their macros. :)

As for builds, we haven't been quite that far down the list yet. I'll suggest it next session.

Just to be pedantic, the client/server model is the Stone Age approach, it just happens to work really well for collaborative tools/data sets.

I disagree with the 'really well' bit. I've been in long term campaigns on both Maptools and TTop and both required way too much fiddling each time you ran and way too many version issues. Maptools used Java which means it had a pretty horrible UI regardless of platform. Prep time in both tools was excessive, they both had awesome features, but to take advantage of them you had to do massive game prep which sucked.

Rite-Publishing did a module which was targeted at VTTs (Maptools support) and had built in maps and tokens and each encounter in the game was plotted out ready to go.... such an awesome concept.

D20Pro looked promising, and they apparently have a marketplace where you can buy pre-built stuff also, but I never got a chance to use it and don't recall if they have a Linux or OSX client which I can use.

If Paizo's VTT eliminates prepwork for Paizo modules... that works 'really well' and I'm totally sold.

I would really appreciate the ability to use the maps in the adventures, this would be a major advantage.

Paizo, take note of whqt FGG is doing with the Rappan Athuk d20pro files. Maps, tokens and token placement all setup appropriate to the encounters. HUGE pre-time saver!

Brutesquad07 wrote:

Does Paizo offer an "indentured servitude" plan? It would be cheaper for me...

Yes we do! Step right over here, and you'll get not one, but *two* free copies of everything Paizo makes!

Do you need a buffoon/jester or something like that?

Paizo, take note of whqt FGG is doing with the Rappan Athuk d20pro files. Maps, tokens and token placement all setup appropriate to the encounters. HUGE pre-time saver!

Keep the recommendations coming our way too as to what is most useful and what is not.

Any word on how long until the beta test? (I should qualify - got my tix for this past summer's PaizoCon online...)

Paizo, take note of whqt FGG is doing with the Rappan Athuk d20pro files. Maps, tokens and token placement all setup appropriate to the encounters. HUGE pre-time saver!

Not to worry. Our plan is, if you buy an adventure to run on Paizo Game Space you'll get the maps, tokens, handouts, etc., and everything should be already placed for you.

Elorebaen wrote:

Paizo, take note of whqt FGG is doing with the Rappan Athuk d20pro files. Maps, tokens and token placement all setup appropriate to the encounters. HUGE pre-time saver!

Not to worry. Our plan is, if you buy an adventure to run on Paizo Game Space you'll get the maps, tokens, handouts, etc., and everything should be already placed for you.

Hell yea!

Elorebaen wrote:

Paizo, take note of whqt FGG is doing with the Rappan Athuk d20pro files. Maps, tokens and token placement all setup appropriate to the encounters. HUGE pre-time saver!

Not to worry. Our plan is, if you buy an adventure to run on Paizo Game Space you'll get the maps, tokens, handouts, etc., and everything should be already placed for you.

Well, this settles it. The second Paizo Game Space goes online to the general public (and the option to purchase whatever the next adventure we're going to play is available) I'm making my group give it a test run. If they say no, they will be spontaneously hit by flying ice cream trucks.

Is this going to include the older 3.5 adventure paths like legacy of fire or even the dungeon ones like Shackled city?

We're not prepared to say anything more specific about adventure content or pawn pricing just yet, but I think it's safe to say that we've demonstrated that current PDF ownership has the potential to affect the cost for related gamespace products.

All these discounts are great, but I'd also like to be able to buy packages. Say, if I bought a Crypt of the Everflame package, I'd get all relevant maps and tokens to play that module set up and ready to go, perhaps with the option to get a PDF of the adventure text. Of it I already have the adventure text, maybe the option to upgrade to the package.

Looking forward to the beta.

Elorebaen wrote:

Paizo, take note of whqt FGG is doing with the Rappan Athuk d20pro files. Maps, tokens and token placement all setup appropriate to the encounters. HUGE pre-time saver!

Not to worry. Our plan is, if you buy an adventure to run on Paizo Game Space you'll get the maps, tokens, handouts, etc., and everything should be already placed for you.

Excellent!

There are a LOT of possible ways to integrate the virtual tabletop with Pathfinder Society. I don't want to promise anything specifically but let's just say we're really intrigued and excited by what we could do there.

I have a friend out of our province that feels rather isolated. He would love to get in on some PFS games with me and my local group, and we'd love to have him. I really hope the Play Space will be PFS compatible! :3

Can we get any word on what will actually be for free for Game Space when it goes LIVE for real?

Say I pop in here and see that Game Space is up and running, early next year sometime (I suspect) if only minor problems are found in the Beta test.

I clik on it and I see.....??

Yes, what I can buy to run a Pathfinder module or Adventure campaign, but will there be something else to "do" or play with.?

I am hoping for at least one or more of the Free smaller modules will be available to test out. And if you guys are really on the ball,:) Maybe a new one to kick around, for most of us who won't be able to get involved in the Beta testing. So we can make our own decisions if we get further into it with our $$.

Also, could there be a thread on Beta testers we could look at, not for everything, but in general please? I'm sure more than a few of us want to see how its going and the "general Beta gamers" thougts on it!

Cheers, Thanks.

Tom

Is there a news update in regards to this? I've got a few international friends chomping at the bit to know when it will be up and running. Very exciting stuff.

Yes, an update would be awesome. I looked at MapTools yesterday and it was very daunting at first glance.

I'm holding my tongue and squirming here because there are usable solutions for you guys /now/... but I don't want to steal GameSpace's thunder.

It suffices to say, you can play with your international friends easily today. I would hate to see groups not playing because they're waiting. I'm pretty sure Gary et al wouldn't want people to miss out, either.

I hope GameSpace is the best VTT for playing Pathfinder modules and APs, but it is not the only game in town. Private Message me if you're really desperate to get up and running, and I'll take you through it.

Echoing the question, any update on this?

After putting out some fires on other projects, holidays, sick days and other stuff, we're back on track to begin beta testing soon. These sorts of things are why I hate talking about software projects before they're ready. I'll see if I can't whip up a better update later this week.

While I get why you would hate talking about things like this before they're ready, please know that the original announcement made my day and even hearing "it's not ready yet, but we're working on it" makes me pretty darn happy. Thanks.

Question for Gary.

I know you said it was beta for those who went to PaizoCon, but it does leave the people from overseas out of the loop (I am from the Netherlands). What is being done for those that cannot make it due to those limitations?

cheers

There were a few people over from Europe, he says smugly. :)
And some folks from New Zealand and Australia from what I remember.

I think Gary's using the PaizoCon attendees as it gives him a manageable number of people to bring into the next phase of testing with the least amount of admin hassle.
Which should hopefully give him a fighting chance of moving on the next phase as soon as possible.

CheshireElf is basically correct. The beta needs to be limited in some way because I don't want a zillion people all trying to use a server we're not sure is functioning properly yet, and the set of PaizoCon attendees is a reasonably small set. We'll be expanding the pool of people who can use Paizo Game Space as rapidly as we can. Probably the first step past letting everybody with a PaizoCon 2012 badge will be letting those people invite others to play in their games. With luck after that we'll just throw it open to everybody but we won't know until we get some scaling tests completed.

This whole project is exciting but frustrating because it's taken much longer than I wanted to get everything set up, but we've marked off a couple milestones this week so my hopes are rising... cautiously.

Probably the first step past letting everybody with a PaizoCon 2012 badge will be letting those people invite others to play in their games.

How about Charter subscribers? ;)

Quick update: We marked off several more milestones this week and things are looking pretty good for opening up the closed alpha testing soon. There are a few things we really want to get fixed before that, so for now here's another screenshot.