From the very first days that I began playing The Great Game, I've always wondered why Magic Missile doesn't damage objects, such as rope or a scroll being prepared by an enemy cleric, etc. And since it can't be aimed to hit a specific location, how does it strike a foe wearing full plate with a helmet and visor? I think I feel a house rule comin' up.
Yeah, I let Magic Missile hit things. I have not ever heard of a good reason why it shouldn't. I don't allow called shots. In Pathfinder HPs are just general damage. I don't want to have to deal with someone claiming they shot someone in the hand.
Exactly. That might lead to a dispute about targets in my group, but I'd really like to give it a try.
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Magic missle is kind of a gnarly auto-disarm/sunder if it gets to hit objects. Since Magic Missile never misses, it's an auto-hit to destroy the scroll that that spell caster just pulled out, or hammer an enemies weapon into uselessness. "An archer you say? I cast magic missile at his bow string." A 1st level spell that lets you effectively circumvent entire mechanics (like the Sunder and Disarm Combat Maneuvers) is pretty wicked.
I agree that logically (from your character's perspective) it doesn't make any sense why you couldn't magic missile an object, but from a game balance perspective I kind of see it.
So I could see not letting it specifically allowing it to target held items. But why can I shoot Magic Missiles at a Treant, but not a tree? Actually if you animate the tree, suddenly I can! No sense.
Can you shoot a held scroll with a bow? Or a Scorching Ray?
Even if you can I would just say that Magic Missile hits "The Object", not a specific part of an object. A person and everything he wears or carries is one object. You hit it, you do damage. A door? You hit it, you do damage. You can not do damage to just the door handle. Locked chest? You can blow up the whole chest, but you can't just shoot the lock off. I think it is consistent enough.
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So I could see not letting it specifically allowing it to target held items. But why can I shoot Magic Missiles at a Treant, but not a tree? Actually if you animate the tree, suddenly I can! No sense.
Can you shoot a scroll with a bow? Or a Scorching Ray?
Even if you can I would just say that Magic Missile hits "The Object", not a specific part of an object. A person and everything he wears or carries is one object. You hit it, you do damage. A door? You hit it, you do damage. You can not do damage to just the door handle. Locked chest? You can blow up the whole chest, but you can't just shoot the lock off. I think it is consistent enough.
Trees are plants, and therefore creatures.
Is a dead tree still a plant, and therefore a creature? What if it is lying on the ground? Or made into a chair? What if that chair is then animated?
If you can only hit living things, what if a creature falls into negative HPs? I can still shoot him with Magic Missiles and finish him off, right? But if he is already dead then I can't shoot him. So I can use Magic Missiles to find out if someone is dead or not, at range.
Just to throw a little more mud in the water.
It would be wise to consider the effect of the "Force" damage to objects.
Is it countered by [Hardness] or [DR],
or is it treated like energy and deals 1/2 damage to objects.
I recommend {if it ain't broke don't fix it, there is enough broken stuff around here that needs fix'in already}
Look at the Brilliant Energy weapon ability. Also remember force effects are among few that has no issues with incorporability.
My feeling is that Force effects kind of attack the living creature's essence (not really soul, that would be necromancy or conjuration methinks) but ignore dead matter.
If you look at a brilliant energy weapon, note that it will ignore an armor made of wood, but not the skin of a treant.
Force does half damage to objects?
Is there a RAW quote available for this?
I personally know no force effects that targets objects. I might have just have missed them, though.
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I personally know no force effects that targets objects. I might have just have missed them, though.Force does half damage to objects?
Is there a RAW quote available for this?
Clenched fist and Mage's Sword speak of "opponent" but I don't see any reason why they can't attack a door.
On the other hand blade barrier don't attack all the items that are present in it Area of Effect.Maybe the current design philosophy is that the aiming force of evocation force effects will allow them to target only creatures and not objects.
Battering blast seem to be the only specific exception to the "creature" target limitation.
From Ultimate magic: "Force: Spells with the force descriptor create or manipulate magical force. Force spells affect incorporeal creatures normally (as if they were corporeal creatures)."
A common trope in the fantasy genre is that magical force is generated by living beings. Undead and constructs depend on it to be capable to act. So it is plausible that force effects targeting is limited to creatures that can somewhat interact with magical forces.
Are you(the OP) questioning what the rule is or are you suggesting what you would like for it to be?
The rule is that magic missile only targets creatures.
Targets up to five creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft. apart
The spell is only a first level spell, and PC's having their stuff broken by an autohit spell would not be cool. Many player would rather have their character die than lose equipment. I know a GM does not have to use it against the players, but from a logical stand point if an NPC has to choose between dying or destroying an opponent's gear the gear should be destroyed. An empowered magic missile take care of most equipment. It that does not work then quicken the next one.
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Even if you allow it to deal damage to objects, it isn't going to be able to affect almost anything. It's damage would be cut in half before applying hardness which is nothing to almost everything except the most brittle of objects. Your not going to be able to damage anyone's armour or weapons.
So there isn't any reason to go through and change the spell.
Even if you allow it to deal damage to objects, it isn't going to be able to affect almost anything. It's damage would be cut in half before applying hardness which is nothing to almost everything except the most brittle of objects.
So there isn't any reason to go through and change the spell.
For some reason I always thought the half damage only came into play after you got past hardness, but now that I think about it that does not really make much sense.
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For some reason I always thought the half damage only came into play after you got past hardness, but now that I think about it that does not really make much sense.
Yep, you half then apply hardness. So the max a magic missile can do is 2 damage to anything. Even if you have 5 missiles it's applied separately so still nothing gets accomplished by anything with even a tiny amount of hardness.
So it'd be changing a spell for basically no reason at all.
For some reason I always thought the half damage only came into play after you got past hardness, but now that I think about it that does not really make much sense.Yep, you half then apply hardness. So the max a magic missile can do is 2 damage to anything. Even if you have 5 missiles it's applied separately so still nothing gets accomplished by anything with even a tiny amount of hardness.
So it'd be changing a spell for basically no reason at all.
Plenty of things do not have enough hardness to negate the damage.
Glass 1
Paper or cloth 0
Rope 0
Ice 0
Leather or hide 2
I do not think force counts as an energy type either way, but I am not 100% sure on that.
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For some reason I always thought the half damage only came into play after you got past hardness, but now that I think about it that does not really make much sense.Yep, you half then apply hardness. So the max a magic missile can do is 2 damage to anything. Even if you have 5 missiles it's applied separately so still nothing gets accomplished by anything with even a tiny amount of hardness.
So it'd be changing a spell for basically no reason at all.
Scroll, potions, bowstrings if you can target them separately from the bow, enough targets to make it a worthwhile use.
If you need a logical reason why you can't target objects, just say that Magic Missile "homes in" on (un)life forces. That's why it can only hit creatures, and that's why it never misses.