Advanced Race Guide Preview: Of Dreams and Nightmares

Nice witch stuff for the Changeling, i like it.

Interesting. I like the feel of it, especially because its a relief to see Changelings featured. I'm unsure about changelings with the witch class, but this is a very nice touch. I like the whole "inception" feel and this seems like a great BBEG-type class. Love it. Don't know if it'd be fun to play as a PC, but...well, whatever

Very awesome! The ARG just keeps looking more and more promising.

Inception witch!

I love this preview,...now if only there a changeling racial boon in PFS. Thanks guys for expanding on the awesome race of changeling and their place in Golarion.

Neat, this book can not come soon enough.

Class Skills: The dreamweaver adds Sense Motive to her list of class skills and removes Healing from her list of class skills.

Slight typo, folks.

Looks neat. Makes the Slumber hex all that more useful. Just a couple errors in the text though.

Sense Motive should replace the Heal skill, not the "Healing" skill.

In Dream Possession, this phrase "using the witch’s familiar acting as the soul receptacle" probably needs 'acting' removed from it, or 'using' replaced with the word 'with'. It just feels a bit awkward otherwise.

EDIT: Ninja'd on the Healing bit.

Very Nice,

though I was hoping for feats or optional racial traits.

and about 2 week more of waiting

the preview says the witch Replaces "Some" patron spells. But that list looks like it takes up all the patron spells. Does the witch get to pick and choose?

Cool concept.

Does the art style seem kind of out of place to anyone else though?

More and more excited for this book. This Archetype has so much flavor and story bits to it. Definitely will add to the roleplaying aspect at our table.

Neat, this book can not come soon enough.

I think everyone here has the same thought.

I think that I turn abilities of this archetype into new hexes instead. And dream thief into an actual spell (probably of 3rd level for bard and 4th level for sorcerer/wizard).

This surprised me; this is my favorite preview so far, and before now, I didn't care much about changelings.

Bravo and encore.

I like it!

It looks cool, not something I'm likely to ever use, but interesting never the less. I like that it really lends itself to a Nighthag descended changeling witch, which I'm already having ideas for use as a villain in an upcoming campaign now.

On the whole I suppose it had to be done at some time, but can we get away from the pretty races now for awhile? Humans, tengu, catfolk, dwarves, and elves (in art if nothing else.) And on the ugly side? we have a picture of a bug-like race and a Goblin preview. And goblins are comical, which makes them more socially acceptable. How about some of the humanoid / racial vermin next week: Orcs and Half-Orcs, Ratfolk, Kobolds, even a suitably creepy preview of the Dhampir (as long its not an angsty preview of the Dhampir), please? Or am I going to have to actually wait and buy the ARG to see the material on my favorite races ;-)

Patience is for when there are too many witnesses, and waiting is getting harder on a daily basis now.

BTW: The devs are cruel. So many references to sow thoughts and no description...

I am looking forward to seeing the night hag descended changeling. Changelings normally don't make very good witches, which is odd. They really should get a +2 to Int instead of Wis, since hags associate with witches and half the hag types have a higher Int than Wis (night, green, mute have a higher Int, annis has an Int equal to Wis).

I like this one. The race restriction doesn't bother me so much here even though it's not playing directly into the changeling's powers. Part of that is that this is a much more niche build idea; the abilities are powerful but situational, so unlike "druidic plant companion" or "good at fire attacks" it's not something I would see wanting to work into a huge variety of builds. Another part is that the changeling is near-human, and the divergence is something very close to what's already built into being a witch, so it doesn't seem as pigeonholing.

It would be nice for changeling witches to get something like the geniekin's elemental affinity or the tiefling's fiendish sorcery, though.

BTW: The devs are cruel. So many references to sow thoughts and no description...

I believe it is supposed to make the recipient of the spell dream of pigs.

Drejk wrote:

BTW: The devs are cruel. So many references to sow thoughts and no description...

I believe it is supposed to make the recipient of the spell dream of pigs.

It's obviously a hex that forces it's victims to think they are a pig. I wonder what the duration is.

It's obviously a hex that forces it's victims to think they are a pig. I wonder what the duration is.

It's just showing what the victim's personality really is. :D

Wow. No comments that the ability to add +1 to DCs on sleeping targets is pointedly useless? The rest of the ability is cool, but the bonus to DCs...

Sleeping makes you helpless, which makes you the willing recipient of all spells. Unless while you're sleeping you are conscious and immobile. I'm trying to wrap my head around it.

Whew... This one came out nice.

For those guessing Inception....

;)

Wow. No comments that the ability to add +1 to DCs on sleeping targets is pointedly useless? The rest of the ability is cool, but the bonus to DCs...

Sleeping makes you helpless, which makes you the willing recipient of all spells. Unless while you're sleeping you are conscious and immobile. I'm trying to wrap my head around it.

I think the part you're missing is that if I recall correctly, that rule only comes into play for (harmless) spells.

Wow. No comments that the ability to add +1 to DCs on sleeping targets is pointedly useless? The rest of the ability is cool, but the bonus to DCs...

Sleeping makes you helpless, which makes you the willing recipient of all spells. Unless while you're sleeping you are conscious and immobile. I'm trying to wrap my head around it.

Hi there Ice Titan. This is a happy friendly reply.

I just quadruple checked the Pathfinder PRD Glossery definition of the helpless condition and I'm not seeing that you automatically become the willing target to all spells.

So I tripled checked the Core Rules, Chapter 9, on the section specifically on Saving Throws.

Just to be safe, I double checked the Combat Chapter section on Saving Throws.

I'm not seeing that the helpless condition makes you the automatic willing target of all spells. There is a certain common sense factor, especialy in the case of a Reflex save- but we're talking Will saves here, right?

I'm not being cocky or unfriendly, but I think I did my due dillegence here. Please, let me know otherwise.

Imagine the movie or the story where the villain is trying to control the hero through their subconcious and they resist.. while in their sleep they twist and moan and have beads of perspiration on their brow as their unconcious tries to shrug the intruding influence off. Kinda like succubi of old were depicted before they were remade by role-playing games.

I hope this makes you like the ability more?
::crosses fingers::

Jim, it's in aiming a spell section, under "target or targets"

Some spells restrict you to willing targets only. Declaring yourself as a willing target is something that can be done at any time (even if you're flat-footed or it isn't your turn). Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing.

But, as Cheapy pointed out, this section specifically refers to spell that are restricted to willing targets. Voluntarily failing a saving throw is different rule.

Being unconscious makes you "willing" for the purpose of spells that require willing targets. It does not mean you automatically fail your saves. (In fact, spells that require willing targets don't allow saves, as a rule.)

DAMN this is cool stuff.
But Dreamweaver is not just for changeling witches, right?
An Elf Witch with the Dreamspeaker racial subsitution trait could work wonders with this archetype! Slumber EVERYWHERE.
And arcane spellcaster access to modify memory too! Brilliant!
I WANT.
Is this the final copy of this archetype? Is there any chance it'll be changed when the book comes out?

Cool concept.

Does the art style seem kind of out of place to anyone else though?

Not really. Paizo, apparently, commissions lots of artists for the art they put in their books, so I'm not too surprised that the art style looks different.

Just take a peek on DeviantArt and see how many different artists have done official Pathfinder art.

It looks cool, not something I'm likely to ever use, but interesting never the less. I like that it really lends itself to a Nighthag descended changeling witch, which I'm already having ideas for use as a villain in an upcoming campaign now.

On the whole I suppose it had to be done at some time, but can we get away from the pretty races now for awhile? Humans, tengu, catfolk, dwarves, and elves (in art if nothing else.) And on the ugly side? we have a picture of a bug-like race and a Goblin preview. And goblins are comical, which makes them more socially acceptable. How about some of the humanoid / racial vermin next week: Orcs and Half-Orcs, Ratfolk, Kobolds, even a suitably creepy preview of the Dhampir (as long its not an angsty preview of the Dhampir), please? Or am I going to have to actually wait and buy the ARG to see the material on my favorite races ;-)

Patience is for when there are too many witnesses, and waiting is getting harder on a daily basis now.

Seconded, I'd especially like something on Kobolds or Ratfolk, which have gotten so little press in general (i mean, at least golbins and orc have an "of golarion" book on them...)

Also, I never even considered night-hag changelings. Ah, the dreamweaver BBEG idea sounds more and more appealing...

DAMN this is cool stuff.

But Dreamweaver is not just for changeling witches, right?
An Elf Witch with the Dreamspeaker racial subsitution trait could work wonders with this archetype! Slumber EVERYWHERE.
And arcane spellcaster access to modify memory too! Brilliant!
I WANT.
Is this the final copy of this archetype? Is there any chance it'll be changed when the book comes out?

sorry, looks like Dreamweaver is changeling only

It’s not surprising that many changelings gravitate toward the witch class since that class’s powers complement both the abilities and the theme of the race.

In this week’s preview, we will take a look at the first race presented in Chapter 3 of the Advanced Race Guide by sharing the archetype presented in the section: the Dreamweaver, a witch empowered by dreams and nightmares.

Dark_Mistress wrote:

Neat, this book can not come soon enough.

I think everyone here has the same thought.

That last person that tried to steal my thoughts I had skinned alive and salted down, are you trying to steal my thoughts?

Ice Titan wrote:

Wow. No comments that the ability to add +1 to DCs on sleeping targets is pointedly useless? The rest of the ability is cool, but the bonus to DCs...

Sleeping makes you helpless, which makes you the willing recipient of all spells. Unless while you're sleeping you are conscious and immobile. I'm trying to wrap my head around it.

Hi there Ice Titan. This is a happy friendly reply.

I just quadruple checked the Pathfinder PRD Glossery definition of the helpless condition and I'm not seeing that you automatically become the willing target to all spells.

So I tripled checked the Core Rules, Chapter 9, on the section specifically on Saving Throws.

Just to be safe, I double checked the Combat Chapter section on Saving Throws.

I'm not seeing that the helpless condition makes you the automatic willing target of all spells. There is a certain common sense factor, especialy in the case of a Reflex save- but we're talking Will saves here, right?

I'm not being cocky or unfriendly, but I think I did my due dillegence here. Please, let me know otherwise.

Imagine the movie or the story where the villain is trying to control the hero through their subconcious and they resist.. while in their sleep they twist and moan and have beads of perspiration on their brow as their unconcious tries to shrug the intruding influence off. Kinda like succubi of old were depicted before they were remade by role-playing games.

I hope this makes you like the ability more?
::crosses fingers::

Check one addition to the "hearsay house rule" column that I've been adding to.

*embarassment*

BWAAAAAAAAAM.

Oh, beaten to the Inception punch

Cool concept.

Does the art style seem kind of out of place to anyone else though?

I like the variety.

Particularly on this piece. Kinda recaptures some of that Arnold Tsang feel that's been missing from PF for a long time.

I'd love to see more Marion Churchland styled fantasy art where the witches are concerned.

I think the art on preview here is definitely great, but the lack of highlights and lowlights and the pencil markings make it look unfinished compared to other art seen in PF books. It's also giving off a bit of a Disney's Hunchback of Notre Dame style, which isn't my bag. [/Opinions!]

Ratfolk or Half Orcs next :) I'm expecting the Half Orc specialty class is probably Barbarian but I hope to be surprised with something crazy.

Check one addition to the "hearsay house rule" column that I've been adding to.

*embarassment*

Ice,

I can't tell you the number of times I get my teeth knocked out in rules fight! I was terrified to reply!

No need to be embarrassed, I could have been wrong, and I'm glad to know you just the same. I never want fans to feel afraid to speak their mind.

I love dream thief and dream possession. A very nasty, thematic pair of abilities. I love modify memory, it's a great role playing spell with lots of potential for crazy ideas. With dream thief you can slowly re-write someone's life where you are their savior at every turn.

This blog is *almost* as good as that goblin fire bomber one ;)

Cthulhudrew wrote:

Drejk wrote:

BTW: The devs are cruel. So many references to sow thoughts and no description...

I believe it is supposed to make the recipient of the spell dream of pigs.

It's obviously a hex that forces it's victims to think they are a pig. I wonder what the duration is.

Yes. That's exactly what it does.

Does dream possession not have a duration? Can I really possess someone FOREVER?

It would follow the same rules as magic jar so one hour per level.

Seconded, I'd especially like something on Kobolds or Ratfolk, which have gotten so little press in general (i mean, at least golbins and orc have an "of golarion" book on them...)

That's actually part of why I'm really hoping orcs are next: To see if they've gotten stuff that Orcs of Golarion didn't deliver.

I am hoping for something for Kitsune, Gnome, Aasimar, or Vanara.

MarioMD wrote:

Cool concept.

Does the art style seem kind of out of place to anyone else though?

Not really. Paizo, apparently, commissions lots of artists for the art they put in their books, so I'm not too surprised that the art style looks different.

Just take a peek on DeviantArt and see how many different artists have done official Pathfinder art.

Agreed. I guess it just looks a little more cartoony than most. Guess I'm with KestlerGunner on this one also [/OPINION!]

As to the rule discussion above, is it weird to anyone else that, while sleeping,you are considered "willing" to spells that are easily resisted, but get a save against spells that are difficult to resist? I suppose most spells that require willing subjects are not harmful, I just think that's interesting.

Azure_Zero wrote:

Dark_Mistress wrote:

Neat, this book can not come soon enough.

I think everyone here has the same thought.

That last person that tried to steal my thoughts I had skinned alive and salted down, are you trying to steal my thoughts?

No, I would not steal your thoughts.

As to the rule discussion above, is it weird to anyone else that, while sleeping,you are considered "willing" to spells that are easily resisted, but get a save against spells that are difficult to resist? I suppose most spells that require willing subjects are not harmful, I just think that's interesting.

It is interesting. Regardless of anything, I'm with you. It is an intersting nuance.

My best guess for the reasoning is that they don't want to put the unconcious or sleeping character in this logic trap where they're being made to make saving throws against beneficial spells that would help them. So by default they're considered willing to spells like stabilize and cure light wounds- instead of making saves against everything because they're sleeping or unconcious.

********

I want to support the folks who want to see half-orcs, orcs, or kobolds next! Kobolds would be cool, because I got some Open Design heretige in me. :)

Alternately a <ahem> rootin' tootin' ratfolk archetype would be cool too (if such a thing exists).

I would request to see some fetchling stuff :D

Or not see, as it were.

I LOVE the flavor here.

I think this is a PERFECT fit for the Norse/Scandinavian concept for 'hag-riding' and many other folk tale witch concepts.

Not great for combat, but a nice option to have rules for.
I think some cool stories can be told around villains/NPCs with these kinds of powers.

MSG