I was hoping to find some time to update the loot tracker, but, life did not cooperate. I think the last thing that was done was we decided what loot to keep from the end of the last adventure.
Yep, for now I'm going by the list Waedin posted. Oona will have money for you at the end of the day.
Everyone has access to the Inventory Tracker (shared here for your convenience, but also accessible through the Campaign Info Tab). Waedin has been gracious enough to volunteer filling it out, but it may be easier for everyone to fill out their portion of it. I've gone ahead and updated it so it matches our current party.
Thanks!
I updated Waedin's loot. Turns out she's carrying out 100 gold worth of items!
Also she has an extra steel shield. So if someone doesn't want that I can add it to the sell list.
Also turns out that Waedin cannot use the maul effectively as she can only use warhammers. I thought she could use all hammers. So Unless someone wants a very nice +1 Maul. That should be sold as well.
Maybe a blacksmith in town can shave a few inches off the handle and turn it into a warhammer.
So seeing as we are possibly about to maybe indulge in combat I have a couple of questions about the Thaumaturge.
1: Their main schtick seems to be Esoteric Lore and Exploit Vulnerability. Essentially Esoteric Lore uses Charisma and is more about haunts, curses and creatures. I can then utilize Esoteric Lore to enact Exploit Vulnerability:
You know that every creature, no matter how obscure, has a weakness. By identifying and empowering the right object, you can strike down even the most resilient of monsters.
You gain the Exploit Vulnerability action.
Exploit Vulnerability [one-action]
Esoterica, Manipulate, Thaumaturge
Frequency: once per round
Requirements: You are holding your implement.
You scour your experiences and learning to identify something that might repel your foe. You retrieve an object from your esoterica with the appropriate supernatural qualities, then use your implement to stoke the remnants of its power into a blaze. Select a creature you can see and attempt an Esoteric Lore check against a standard DC for its level, as you retrieve the right object from your esoterica and use your implement to empower it. You gain the following effects until you Exploit Vulnerabilities again.
Critical Success You remember the creature's weaknesses, and as you empower your esoterica, you have a flash of insight that grants even more knowledge about the creature. You learn all of the creature's resistances, weaknesses, and immunities, including the amounts of the resistances and weaknesses and any unusual weaknesses or vulnerabilities, such as what spells will pass through a golem's antimagic. You can exploit either the creature's mortal weakness or personal antithesis (see below). Your unarmed and weapon Strikes against the creature also become magical if they weren't already.
Success You recall an important fact about the creature, learning its highest weakness (or one of its highest weaknesses, if it has multiple with the same value) but not its other weaknesses, resistances, or immunities. You can exploit either the creature's mortal weakness or personal antithesis. Your unarmed and weapon Strikes against the creature also become magical if they weren't already.
Failure Failing to recall a salient weakness about the creature, you instead attempt to exploit a more personal vulnerability. You can exploit only the creature's personal antithesis. Your unarmed and weapon Strikes against the creature also become magical if they weren't already.
Critical Failure You couldn't remember the right object to use and become distracted while you rummage through your esoterica. You become flat-footed until the beginning of your next turn.
Then, “you can attempt to Exploit Vulnerabilities in one of two ways: either by invoking properties that repel that type of creature, or by attempting a more improvisational, ad-hoc method with your esoterica that can impose a custom weakness on any creature, albeit one that usually isn't as dire as a creature's existing weakness:”
Mortal Weakness: After identifying a creature's weakness, you use a thematically resonant bit of esoterica to attune your attacks to your discovery. Your unarmed and weapon Strikes activate the highest weakness you discovered with Exploit Vulnerability, even though the damage type your weapon deals doesn't change. This damage affects the target of your Exploit Vulnerability, as well as any other creatures of the exact same type, but not other creatures with the same weakness.
For example, when fighting a pack of werewolves you might use silver shavings or crushed moonstone to deal damage that applies their weakness to silver to your attacks against any of the werewolves, but you wouldn't apply this damage to any other monsters with a weakness to silver.
Personal Antithesis: You improvise a custom weakness on a creature by forcefully presenting and empowering a piece of esoterica that repels it on an individual level; for instance, against a tyrant, you might procure a broken chain that once held a captive. This causes the target creature, and only the target creature, to gain a weakness against your unarmed and weapon Strikes equal to 2 + half your level.
What happens if the creature has no tangible/mechanical weaknesses? And how should I proceed in PbP - one action to Exploit Vulnerability, and then just roll attacks normally and GM NABU will tell me if I a) get any knowledge and whether b) I’ve unlocked either mortal weakness or personal antithesis? It seems weird, because there seems to be a stop in between identifying the creature and then figuring whether you learned something and which way to proceed. Seems a bit hard in PbP to manage without my first turns in combat being stilted/broken in two.
Does anyone have experience of Thaumaturge in PbP?
2: My other questions relates to Implement’s Empowerment:
The power of your implement can also be turned to the more common task of combat, its power adding to and amplifying the effects of runes and other magical empowerments. When you Strike, you can trace mystic patterns with an implement you're holding to empower the Strike, causing it to deal 2 additional damage per weapon damage die.
Channeling the power requires full use of your hands. You don't gain the benefit of implement's empowerment if you are holding anything in either hand other than a single one-handed weapon, other implements, or esoterica, and you must be holding at least one implement to gain the benefit.
Is this just a highly flavored, long winded way of saying I get +2 to damage (per weapon per die) while holding my implement? And do I have to have put away all my toys (esoterica, level-gained other implements) to get it?
GM: I think maybe we can take the potency rune off the weapon and give it one of the full martials in the group?
Ascaede: From my perspective, it might make the most sense to carry out the exploit vulnerability and ask the GM to apply the best option on your subsequent strikes. That way if your roll was good enough to get a Mortal Weakness then that extra damage can be added on, otherwise you'd just get the Personal antithesis damage or maybe just get flat footed.
I believe Personal antithesis works even if the creature has no other weakness.
I think Implement Empowerment is basically a +2 damage and also ensuring that you're not able to take advantage of two handed weapons or sword and board fighting styles while getting the +2.
How about this, I will try my honest best to start every encounter out with Recall Knowledge checks behind spoilers. That way you know what level of success you roll.
I think you're reading Implement empower right except you can also be holding esoteric or other implements. I think this hinders you from using a shield, unless that is your implement.
Waedin I'm not sure you can transfer a rune, as in my mind it is something magically etched into the weapon. I'll dig into the rules on that. Else,I think modifying the maul down into a Warhammer is feasible.
Thanks for the answers Waedin and GM NABU…
You can transfer runes. It takes 1 day of work (8 hrs) and costs 10% of the rune cost.
There is a craft check involved.
https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=737
I have played with a Thaumaturge. To speed things up, the GM dropped the DCs for the Exploit Vulnerability class feature for the player to compare to the Esoteric Lore rolls.
Oh, one further question:
My Implement (Weapon)’s ability says
…
Trigger The target of your Exploit Vulnerability uses a concentrate, manipulate, or move action, or leaves a square during a move action it's using….… Your weapon senses a moment of weakness and guides your hand to strike down a foe. Make a Strike against the triggering creature with your weapon implement. If your attack is a critical hit, you disrupt the triggering action. This Strike doesn't count toward your multiple attack penalty, and your multiple attack penalty doesn't apply to this Strike.
Is making a Strike (i.e. attacking) a “Manipulate” action? If not, I’m not sure where this implement ability would be *that* useful, which is hyper weird given it is a….weapon. Like I get that moving or casting a spell would trigger it, so it seems a bit like an AoO…
Strike is not a manipulate action. SOME actions (list here) that act as strikes/attacks may be, but a simple weapon strike is not. It, essentially, is "just" an AoO reaction. But that is not easy to come by at level 2.
Strike is not a manipulate action. SOME actions (list here) that act as strikes/attacks may be, but a simple weapon strike is not. It, essentially, is "just" an AoO reaction. But that is not easy to come by at level 2.
Sure, and is kinda a Fighter thing. Just looking through all of the Thaumaturge implements, almost all of their abilities seem to be underwhleming interrupts. I really like the Mirror ability, being able to flank with yourself etc…I guess it’s one of those things where you think a class has this signature thing only to find that it a) works quite differently to what you thought given the write-up and b) is completely underwhelming.
Don’t get me wrong, I still love the class and the concepts, just the whole Implements bit falls completely flat. For me. ;)
Bell and mirror are my personal favourites. Damage reduction and, essentially, free flanking are always useful.
Chalice is also nice if you don't know what to do with a 3rd action.
Tome and Lantern are my favorites although I have yet to play a Thaumaturge....
I'm very cool with modifying the rules of runes to be more built into a weapon. The base rules are fun but are designed to make weapon loot be less special and more customizable.
Maybe Waedin can pay the 10% rune cost to have the maul modified into a warhammer? It's very thematic for her to have a weapon that reminds her of her craftsperson background.
Ustemir and Ascaede, do I have you on Roll20 yet?
I was logged in today. Don't think I had a character created, though.
Not me. Will have to start the process now…
I'm logged in now, but unsure how to...do anything...Fun times. ;)
Watching the tutorial, and have now changed icon. Yay!
Ok, you should both have character profiles now, and everyone should be able to see the map.
(using this forest road map for the third time now :P)
Yep. Is working for me...
Maps....
Hopefully Ascaede might learn something about the value of stealth, even when time is of the essence…
I approve of this chaos!
@Sebastien, can you clarify your turn for me? I’m just trying to understand how PF2 actions/reactions interact (along with pretty much lots of the rest of the ruleset…)
1: First you used one Action to cast the cantrip inspire competence which
… This counts as having taken sufficient preparatory actions to Aid your ally on a skill check of your choice, regardless of the circumstances. When you later use the Aid reaction, you can roll Performance instead of the normal skill check
Does the Aid reaction need to be an Action or is it an “ ↺= Reaction” and if so, what triggered it? Liberating Command? The liberating command says:
You call out a liberating cry, urging an ally to break free of an effect that holds them in place. If the target is grabbed, immobilized, or restrained, it can immediately use a reaction to attempt to Escape.
I find this all a bit clunky as there seems to be a disconnect between “you” and “it”, and who exactly is using the Reaction. Or does your Aid reaction automatically happen because the target’s does?
2: Are you using the Deception to become hidden? I don’t see Deception interacting with anything else, which seems like a missed opportunity of the ruleset. Then again I have a lot of trouble with PF2 breaking up Exploration activities like Search, Avoid Notice and Scout - why you wouldn’t be Avoiding Notice while also Scouting, or why you wouldn’t be actively Searching while Scouting seems a little silly…
Sébastien used 1 Action to Inspire Competence.
That uses his Performance instead of the corresponding skill for the Aid Action, which uses my Reaction.
(Also uses DC 20 as standard but hoping for a bit of DM fiat).
He then cast Liberating Command (1 Action) which allows the Target to use its Reaction to attempt to Escape.
Yes. 1 Action and He is now Hidden. (I agree seems to be lacking).
Hope that clarifies?
In essence, I am using 2 Actions and my Reaction to help her Escape. Some synergy between the Inspire Competence and Liberating Command.
3rd Action, he doesn't want to be targeted...lol.
So essentially you are first using the Aid Action. Which is a Reaction, that needs a skill to be used as an Action first. And you have replaced the skill needed from whatever it originally was to Performance with Inspire Competence.
Then you are assisting the Escape attempt you hope the lass makes with Liberating Command.
Gotcha. That is now clear. Thanks! I think.
Weird way of the ruleset explaining Aid that’s for sure. Why can’t they just say in point form what needs to happen, and the way both Trigger and Requirements read is…confusing. And every Aid attempt is really a skill check as an Action, but what really confuses me is this:
To use this reaction, you must first prepare to help, usually by using an action during your turn.
Do they mean “Action” the mechanic or narrative “action” i.e. describing what you are doing? That’s why I was confused. You are basically mutating your Aid’s skill requirement via a spell. Right? So instead of a skill check you are casting a spell to change the skill check. But isn’t casting the spell an Action? But that is ok, because Aid is a Reaction that is also an Action (skill check). Or is it? Because if it is, then is casting a spell to change the needed skill it’s own Action? This hurts my head, an I’m clearly overthinking it. Never mind…
I need a ruling for this, please.
Minion
Source Core Rulebook pg. 634 4.0
Minions are creatures that directly serve another creature. A creature with this trait can use only 2 actions per turn, doesn't have reactions, and can't act when it's not your turn. Your minion acts on your turn in combat, once per turn, when you spend an action to issue it commands. For an animal companion, you Command an Animal; for a minion that's a spell or magic item effect, like a summoned minion, you Sustain a Spell or Sustain an Activation; if not otherwise specified, you issue a verbal command as a single action with the auditory and concentrate traits. If given no commands, minions use no actions except to defend themselves or to escape obvious harm. If left unattended for long enough, typically 1 minute, mindless minions usually don't act, animals follow their instincts, and sapient minions act how they please. A minion can't control other creatures.
Mature animal companions get a single action in their turn even without a command, but Kolek is not mature. So RAW, he should just sit tight, doing nothing. Potentially providing flanking.
So what do? I obviously can't issue commands at this point in time.
Yeah, RAW Kolek snuffles pensively, wondering what time it is. Perhapth honeycaketh are good thith time of day? Personally, I would say even Kolek knows Ustemir painting the ground with claret using yummy yummy lifeblood is a good time to chow down on “bad guy”.
Yeah, it would make sense for him to finish fighting the thing he was already fighting. And then maybe sniff around the ground pensively.
I'd say Kolek is a young bear that runs on more than just video game programming. Play him as you think Ustemir's loyal pet companion would behave, but I guess limit him to 1 Action.
Damn. I should have tripped him. Nevermind, too late to go back.
I think you did just fine!
OSW's noob questions:
So Inspire Courage needs a new expenditure of an Action every round to work, but Lingering Composition can make that a 4 or 3 round effect (or 1 round depending on the relative Success) negating the need to use an action every turn...until it all starts again with a new Performance check?
You got it!
Lingering Composition is a Focus Spell. So, if you Succeeded, then costs 1.
Just a clarification. I'm assuming Ascaede used battle medicine on herself which should give her two more actions, as a standard Medicine check takes 10-minutes with a 1-hour cool down. Battle medicine has a 24 hour cooldown.
Medicine
You spend 10 minutes treating one injured living creature (targeting yourself, if you so choose). The target is then temporarily immune to Treat Wounds actions for 1 hour, but this interval overlaps with the time you spent treating (so a patient can be treated once per hour, not once per 70 minutes).
Yes, was Battle Medicine and any other “actions” were used to stand guard…I merely used “Medicine, DC 15” as that is the check required. Regularly when annotating my turn I use the action icons and “Battle Medicine” but given the combat was almost over I abbreviated slightly…
While we are on the subject - what is Ustemir’s “First Aid” - is that Battle Medicine?!!
It's a specific medicine roll to stop people from dying.
https://2e.aonprd.com/Actions.aspx?ID=54
Since Treat Wounds takes 10 minutes, he could have bled out before that is finished.
Just a heads up, I will be traveling Saturday to Saturday so posting may not be so frequent. Glad we got that combat out of the way!
Perhaps Ascaede and Ustemir can take the last two elixirs rolled above?
Oh, I'm gonna rock your world right now. You can treat wound on 6 different peoole in an hour.
You spend 10 minutes treating one injured living creature (targeting yourself, if you so choose). The target is then temporarily immune to Treat Wounds actions for 1 hour, but this interval overlaps with the time you spent treating (so a patient can be treated once per hour, not once per 70 minutes).
So multiple treat wounds checks can happen in the span of an hour, as long as you don't do the same person twice.
Perhaps Ascaede and Ustemir can take the last two elixirs rolled above?
Oh, I'm gonna rock your world right now. You can treat wound on 6 different peoole in an hour.
You spend 10 minutes treating one injured living creature (targeting yourself, if you so choose). The target is then temporarily immune to Treat Wounds actions for 1 hour, but this interval overlaps with the time you spent treating (so a patient can be treated once per hour, not once per 70 minutes).So multiple treat wounds checks can happen in the span of an hour, as long as you don't do the same person twice.
True. But I can’t start for an hour because they were attempted with battle medicine during the combat then it would take another hour to treat them all and if I cure them for another for an hour for double it’s two more hours.
Ach my head.
So if someone uses (successfully or not) Battle Medicine on you during a combat are you then immune from gaining a benefit from regular Medicine-conversant Treat Wounds after combat is over for 1 hour? Does that mean that because Ascaede failed to heal herself AND the young pair of star crossed love-idiots with Battle Medicine, all three of them are now unable to be healed by Treat Wounds for the next hour?
I believe since your attempts failed, then they do not count.
You have it right Ascaede. Following is the wording from Archives of Nethys... which I highly recommend...
Treat Wounds
You spend 10 minutes treating one injured living creature (targeting yourself, if you so choose). The target is then temporarily immune to Treat Wounds actions for 1 hour, but this interval overlaps with the time you spent treating (so a patient can be treated once per hour, not once per 70 minutes).
Since the check has (4) degrees of success it always counts whether successful or not. This is the control of keeping everyone from spamming the medicine checks. A critical Failure (the target takes 1d8 damage) so make sure if you have other healing to do that first so you want to kill the person you're treating. Often backup healers take the "Assurance" feat, which gives you a "take 10" on the skill of choice so they're guaranteed to not fail... but no chance for additional healing.
Many if not most of the feats... especially Skill feats in Pathfinder 2 help you enhance and gain benefits to something you already do... not bestow new abilities.
Battle Medicine is still a "Treat Wounds" action, the Battle Medicine feat just allows you to do it in one round instead of 10-minutes... Triage... In addition, it doesn't remove the wounded condition, and has a 24 hour cool down before it can be used again on the same creature.
I find Battle Medicine to be sort of an emergency option to keep someone from dying, or if the characters direly need people back up to finish the encounter. In this case it was worth a shot, as these characters were actively dying.
There is also the "First Aid" action under the Medicine Skill which can be used untrained, but still requires a medicine kit, and the DC is higher (15 + 5 + Dying level). It also only stops the dying condition when used in that manner, no HP restoration.
Another concept that is different in Pathfinder 2 is the types of activity. Encounter, Exploration and Downtime. PF2 seldom uses random encounters, as they would mess up the inherent balance by utilizing resources involved when designing encounter balance... so there is nothing wrong with taking a few hours to clean things up after a combat. It's not like a video game or previous editions where if you waited around something else was likely to happen. I think we are all accustomed to the "hurry up to the next encounter before it hurries up to us".
If we take three hours unless the GM decides to change things up, we could do the following with no consequences.
* Wait an hour for the initial Medicine checks.
* If someone has a focus spell they can use to heal, take several 10-minute "Refocus" activities (Prayers???) and use them over and over as needed.
* Treat those Medicine check wounds for an additional hour to double the HP regained from this time.
* Noninvolved in healing characters could quickly recon the area looking for somewhere to dispose of the bodies.
* When were mostly decide what to do with the bodies, come up with a story, decide next actions.
Things might seem complicated moving from standard d20 to PF2, but once you get the design concepts down, they make sense. It's all about (3) action encounter, (4) degrees of success, (3) types of activities, and balance.
Assurance is a good feat for Medicine checks. It's good we have a few party members who have healing capabilities. I can tell you it sucks being the dedicated healer in 2e.
It seems we are coming to a consensus about next steps. But does all this change your plans about going to the Lumberyards?
Hey, all. Sorry for being slow at the moment. Real life stuff is happening and will also be tomorrow. I'll get back on track as soon as possible.
Thanks for the patience.
@Stepnik: thanks for the notes on healing. That all makes sense now.
Yes, I say we follow Stepnik’s plan of waiting a few hours to heal then heading to the Lumberyards. Though perhaps we move away from the site of the battle for an hour or so first…
I see most everyone has healed back to full. Do you want Stepnik to roll the Medicine checks, or are we hand-waving the healing back to full? He would also heal the children... ideally before they return to the blacksmith, but if not when they return.