Oh noes! Hope it get sorted quickly and there isn’t any damage to anything important/sentimental…
The sentimental loss is we need to move out of the place we've been renting for 9 years. The housing and rental market in Santa Fe is atrocious, so It's difficult to find a reasonable place in short notice.
@ Ustemir
Not sure how closely the DM wants to run the rules, but RAW you can't have weapons out and ready till you roll for initiative in an encounter. There is no surprise (unless you have specific feats), so both PC's and enemies start out with no prep actions... including drawn weapons. I know it doesn't make sense literally, but this is used for balance so that all combats start with a level playing field.
There is the "Quick Draw" feat that lets you draw a weapon as a free action, but RAW no preparatory actions including buffing spells etc.
Can you link me to this rule or tell me the page number where this is stated? Because I don't recall anything of the sort.
Not attempting to come across as aggressive, but I think that's a pretty weird take.
I get it if you are in the middle of the street. That's fine. But we're in a dangerous area here and got attacked twice. Why would the characters sheathe after every encounter?
Makes no sense.
I don't take it as aggressive. We're all trying to understand the rules... and I once stood where you do.
You are in encounter mode when your roll initiative. We are out of encounter mode, so we are in either exploration mode, or Downtime mode. If you look at the encounter mode options, there is none for "Readying a weapon". In fact, if this was allowed it would nullify the "Quick Draw Feat". In my games I have a house rule that if you use the "Defend" Exploration mode you can instead choose to have (1) weapon ready, but not both a weapon and a shield. I think you'll find that it works during play just fine.
I agree that if you try to apply real strategy to it, it doesn't make sense, but it's done for balance issues. If this wasn't the rule you would have to re-adjust every encounter in Pathfinder adventures to allow the opponents to have readied actions as well. PF2 is attempting to make the GM's job easier.
What is Ustemir's Exploration activity. This mode is designed to prevent the spamming of search, investigate, and perception rolls. Everyone has an activity they perform during this mode.
Use of the Exploration Rules is one of the most confusing and difficult to relate to rules of PF2... but it's also one of the reasons that it's so balanced.
From my perspective the utility of having the Quick Draw Feat is to be one of the best at reacting to a an actual surprising situation such as being attacked at a party or a guard checkpoint or something like that. Plus it's a core part of any sort of switch hitting build.
For me as a GM if a rule doesn't exist then that doesn't mean it can't be done.
To me it's awkward for everyone to pay a one action tax at the beginning on an encounter no matter what the situation is prior to initiative being rolled. It breaks world immersion. There's always a bit of a struggle between immersion and game balance but for me in this case we're going too far in the pursuit of balance.
Plus I feel it would tilt the balance in favour of natural weapon and unarmed builds unless you had them spend an action to 'ready' their jaws or fists or whatever, which is also awkward.
In any case it's up to the GM.
From my perspective the utility of having the Quick Draw Feat is to be one of the best at reacting to a an actual surprising situation such as being attacked at a party or a guard checkpoint or something like that. Plus it's a core part of any sort of switch hitting build.
For me as a GM if a rule doesn't exist then that doesn't mean it can't be done.
To me it's awkward for everyone to pay a one action tax at the beginning on an encounter no matter what the situation is prior to initiative being rolled. It breaks world immersion. There's always a bit of a struggle between immersion and game balance but for me in this case we're going too far in the pursuit of balance.
Plus I feel it would tilt the balance in favour of natural weapon and unarmed builds unless you had them spend an action to 'ready' their jaws or fists or whatever, which is also awkward.
In any case it's up to the GM.
True. It's up to the GM. Since Surprise situations are almost non-existent in PF2 however the feat would be a complete waste. Like I said I used to agree with your interpretation, but if you listen to the game developers running actual play on YouTube videos you will see that is the way they play it. Some of the earlier podcasts didn't follow this, but all of the official podcasts do.
You are correct that it tilts things a bit in favor of unarmed, and natural weapon attacks, but that is figured into their stats. My players have just come to expect (Well most of them anyway). that round 1 is the prep action. If you can't attack in round 1 then the enemy can't either... except for natural or unarmed attacks.
Pathfinder 2e is much more different than it appears at first glance. It's not just bolting some rules onto d20 it's a different rule set with similar terms and props... though not even that so much in Remastered.
I admit I am new to these rules, and the movement between Exploration Mode and Encounter Mode feels clumsy, but I will rule that in Exploration Mode, especially in a dangerous environ, you may keep 1 weapon drawn. My reasons for this ruling are such:
1) I see no rule that explicitly states that you can't.
2) If your Exploration Mode activity is Search, I imagine you want to keep 1 hand free for Interact actions (opening doors, sifting through debris, feeling walls for secret doors and traps, etc.)
3) The Defend activity means you start out each encounter with your shield Raised, meaning you have your shield out and at the ready, so why not a weapon?
4) The Quick Draw Feat still remains viable due to surprise encounters and for switch hitters (ie, dropping a ranged weapon and drawing a melee weapon mid-combat). Hey, take the Alchemist class, for instance. They get to draw and throw their concoctions all in one action. But, if they want to switch to a crossbow to avoid splashing their comrades, well, they'd have to take a feat to do so efficiently.
5) Is a wizard expected to walk around with their staff slung on their back? No, they have their weapon drawn at all times (disregard that melee is not their strong point).
6) The switch from Exploration Mode to Encounter Mode happens when "both parties become aware of each other". So there are plenty of scenarios where combatants may be caught off guard. Consider if you were to spot two ogres feasting on a poor commoner in the woods. You sneak up on them with intent to kill, you are aware of them, but they are unaware of you. You spring upon them with a shout and now they become aware of you, Encounter Mode begins, we roll initiative, you roll high, it's your turn. Are you empty handed?
Okay. The GM has spoken
Just wondering if the enemy is aware of us, but not us of them are they also going to have weapons out and we won't? Or can their wizard prepare a spell for when the door opens. How about our wizard can they have a spell out ready to use? Can Stepnik have a bomb ready to throw the moment the door has opened before we roll initiative? Or do we just want to give weapon combatants an extra action they don't really need.
Unless we're all very sneaky everything is going to be more aware of us than us of them.
I think you're opening an unbalanced can of worms... but I'll roll with it.
Well, the whole point of my ruling is that it's circumstantial. The ambusher should have advantage over the ambushed. Walking around with a weapon drawn is different than preparing an action. It's preparing FOR action, yes, but there are no more surprise rounds, sadly.
And, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Alchemist doesn't need to use an Interact action to draw their bomb before throwing it, it's a free part of their attack, right?
The question is, can someone walk around in a dungeon with a weapon in hand, and the answer is yes.
I don't think it's going to break the game.
Okay. I'll let it go with one more observation.
Any martial character can now walk around with a bomb in their hand there-by making quick Alchemy much less effective, especially in round 1. We'll see where the remaster in Core 2 takes us. :-).
In every PF2e game that I have been a part of, there has not been one instance where characters were not allowed to have weapons drawn, especially in obvious dangerous areas, situations, bathrooms.
Quick Draw allows for an Interact Action to Draw a weapon and a Strike. 1 Action.
Quick Bombs allows for the same.
These Feats are great in any situation including if others already have weapons drawn.
I am a bit intrigued by Stepnik's interpretation. I plan to follow it up myself...
Regarding "Esoteric Lore" keep the bolded section below in mind. Other skills are still valid.
You become trained in Esoteric Lore, a special lore skill that can be used to Recall Knowledge regarding haunts, curses, and creatures of any type, but that can't be used to Recall Knowledge of other topics
Regarding "Esoteric Lore" keep the bolded section below in mind. Other skills are still valid.
By “other skills are still valid” do you mean Esoteric Lore should only be used for haunts curses and creatures? And other skills should be used for anything else?
I would agree for Esoteric Lore not being able to be used willy-nilly for Investigation, but
You can take a –2 penalty to your check to Recall Knowledge with Esoteric Lore to Recall Knowledge about any topic, not just the usual topics available for Esoteric Lore.
Which is what I think GMNABU ruled. I essentially use Esoteric Lore all the time, and where it is about haunts curse and creatures I use my Esoteric Lore bonus. Where it isn’t about those things I use my Esoteric Lore bonus -2.
Or did you mean something else?
My bad. Missed the whole Diverse Lore thing. I'll try to quit rules layering.
My bad. Missed the whole Diverse Lore thing.
Easy to do. I even laid it all out with spoilers and everything and still got it confused.
I'll try to quit rules layering.
Well, to be fair, there are a *lot* of layers. Especially with a Thaumaturge! ;)
Hey all. Note I will be travelling over the weekend, so short posts only from my end. We're gonna toss some dice, smear our skin with fox blood, and dance naked in the light of a full moon.
Off is your friend for those types of cultist Kool-aide drinking adventurous weekends....
Just what I've heard....
This is the crazy thing about PbP, I had already long forgotten about finding the book in the library because for me it happened many days ago. For Ascaede it happened…this morning? Yesterday?
I’ll try to keep/be more attentive. You are doing a great job GMNABU.
Haha, yeah game time is wonky. You actually found the book when you entered the ruins about an hour ago :p.
Yeah, thanks much for reminding us players of things our characters would just know. (I completely forget about the garnet!)
Hello, everyone! This message is being posted in all my tables.
Friendly reminder that I will take two weeks off soon. I will be away from July 3rd up to July 18th, and I am unsure of my ability to make posts within that period. I will try, but no promises.
However, even if I can get online, I will probably put the tables I GM on hold, save for possible short posts. Thanks for understanding.
I will try to include a bot-me section in my PC profiles just in case.
I'm a little frustrated with playing Stepnik. I find this build to not work well in PbP. Would you have an issue with me perhaps making another character to join this game. I'm thinking a fighter/swashbuckler or a druid.
If not I'll keep playing with Stepnik.
I've seen others vent frustration with the 2e Alchemist, it's a very different design than 1e. It's ok if you want to change to a new PC, but do you mind finishing this chapter of the adventure and you can make the switch when you will (likely) return to town.
Also remember you are only 2nd level. In my (very limited) experience with 2e, it seems most cool class abilities don't come online until around 7th or so. 7-10 always felt like the sweet spot in 1e.
Honestly, if you don't like the mechanics, don't play the class. I won't stop you.
Kill Stepnik and let the new character drop from the ceiling like the darkmantles.
I am actually a big fan of the Alchemist both PF1e (playing my 6th currently) and PF2e (playing my 2nd currently).
Took over Wizard for my favorite class...lol.
I think I might like it in a tabletop game... but PbP tends to be a bit discombobulated and much more difficult to have party strategies. Unless he's first in the initiative he can almost never use his bombs without impacting the party. I designed him as a healer first and foremost... but for some reason that build isn't shining like I thought it would.
It started out pretty good using a lot of skills etc... but lately he seems to be just a decoration. I'll play him through this adventure part like the GM requested. Perhaps my opinion will change.
He seemed to perform well in Silverpine Watch, maybe it's the tight quarters of these ruins.
Honestly, if you don't like the mechanics, don't play the class. I won't stop you.
Kill Stepnik and let the new character drop from the ceiling like the darkmantles.
100% my view also.
Stepnik would you prefer if we held the line so you can lob bombs or something? To make your experience better at least for now?
The Bomber research field is necessary in order to exclude allies from splash damage. It's a bit of a necessity if you want to use bombs a lot. Maybe swapping Stepnik to be a bomber but still invest in healing might fix the issue?
Also August isn't VERY far away and maybe the remastered alchemist will take care of this odd issue where bombing effectiveness is limited to one subclass.
Uh, guys. Roll20 is complicated to open. Can someone link me a screenshot of the current situation?
whoops Waedin meant Ascaede, not Kolek
I'll be traveling Friday-Sunday, so posts may become minimal next week.
Y'all want to clear out this level? Where shall we start? There's some doors further down the hall, and a couple of rooms overlooked near the main entrance.
Just to let y'all know, I'll be going out of town tomorrow through Sunday, and may not get to post much.
But when I get back I'll be much more available.
Have fun!
I've watched some videos on the remastered alchemist. While better it doesn't seem to solve the issue of only Bomber alchemists being able to shape their slash damage. Stepnik might work really well as a Bomber archetype that takes a healing archetype to fit in the Chiurgeon flavour maybe.
I've seen one feat that allows them to reshape splash as a cone, but the 1e ability to exclude allies from splash seems to be reserved for Bombers.
To be fair, if you can use those versatile flasks as healing bombs all day erryday, cool.
Not demoting Stepnik to a healing bot or anything, but unless a research field change is an option, at least it give him something to do with bombs when we're in melee.
@GMNabu, is the “finely crafted light crossbow” buffed mechanically is any way, or just really well made? Does anyone other than Ascaede use a crossbow/want it or the bolts we just found?
@Gotta admit, I barely understood the 1e Alchemist nor 2e Alchemist and what I’ve heard of the 2eR Alchemist makes it seem like it doesn’t do much to “simplify” playing one for a new player…
Sebastian would happily transfer his Bardness to Stepnik for his Alchemist ness...lol.
Just kidding but I do enjoy the Alchemist.
The 1e Alchemist could do everything really well, touch attacks, alchemical bonuses, an amazing 'spell' list.
I'll give Stepnik a little while with the remastered Alchemist to see how that plays out. Don't have the book yet, but I've watched some youtube reviews, and it looks like they've simplified things a bit. Perhaps when I have the book, I'll rebuild him a bit... but keep the basics intact.
Just watched Rules Lawyer's take on Remastered Alchemist. Versatile Vials seems amazing!
I know. I have a player at my table who enjoys lobbing bombs VERY much. Can't wait to see his face when I tell him he can have basically 96 free scaling bombs per day.
Allowing the highest level alchemical items to interact with some feats also seems like both a massive streamline as well as a major power bump.
All the free consumables feels like an echo of the pf1e meta where you had one player who was a master magical item crafter to make the party's WBL stretch way further.
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Hey everyone,
sorry about that break there. My travels were much much more busy than expected and I just didn't have the bandwith last week. But I'm back and ready to rock'n'roll. We'll open that secret door soon!
Sorry about the delay. Thought I'd have more time to post. Back to normal tomorrow... so feel free to DMPC to keep things from stalling.
Got my "Demi-plane" version of Players Core 2 available today. I'll rebuild Stepnik using these rules. They seem much easier, and more flexible.