Toughness or Heavy Armor Proficiency?

I'm about to start a campaign as a melee cleric, and I want to be on the front line, but since I'm the party healer I also don't want to die. The party already has a fighter and an arcane duelist, so I probably won't be taking all the hits myself. Would I be better off taking Toughness or Heavy Armor Proficiency? My dex is only 12 so I'd get the most out of full plate.

Heavy Armor Proficiency is nice for the +3 AC, but won't do anything against magical attacks, limits my run speed, and I don't really like the flavor of it for this character.

Toughness gets me hit points that will help me withstand magic attacks, but since I'll be taking more hits I'll have to expend more healing resources.

I'm leaning towards thinking Heavy Armor Proficiency is mechanically better, but if I wanted to take Toughness instead for fluff reasons will I end up paying for it?

I would really take Combat Casting first, before either of those skills. You can, as a cleric, buff your defenses up pretty well beforehand, the only caveat is that spellcasting provokes.

Your heals and buffs can be an effective tool in your survival. Being able to regenerate lost hitpoints in a fight makes toughness less appealing.

I would put Heavy Armor Proficiency on my wishlist for later once you can have Mithril Full-Plate.

But that's just me.

I'd get toughness or Dodge if your dex is a 13, get a +1 to AC and get Mobility later +4 to AoO. Don't really see why you need combat casting AS LONG AS your not in a threating square and can't provoke.

I'm running a death cleric who CAN heal but doesn't really need to since the party has 3 off healers Paladin, Inquisitar, and my cleric. My cleric doesn't have combat casting mostly because I've been choosing spells that Buff my cleric's AC and Damage/Attack, saves, and 1-2 CLW. You know the local buffer, but we have a bard for that so that just helps my cleric out even more. I MIGHT switch out selective channeling for combat casting when the party is out of the dungeon and level up so I can actually do a inflict light/ mod wounds. But I haven't really seen the use for it when I can just channel smite, Channel Negative energy (I has selective channeling woo AoE damage but this is where my thoughts go hey maybe I should just switch this feat for combat casting)

But look at the spells that you think your gonna need, pick a pretty good one handed weapon from a Neutral/Good Deity and pick up a board for more AC and you should be set.

EDIT: And if your worried about magic attacks, get the protection domain, you get SR.

Run Speed - With your 12 DEX you're probably going to be in at least med Armor. The run speed for that is the same as if you're in Heavy armor. Only exception to this is if you're planning on grabbing Mithra

AC vs Toughness
I favor AC over Toughness but most others favor Toughness. Here's my view on it -
Toughness breaks down to 1 extra hit point per level. This is, maybe, about the damage of 2 hits in the low levels or about 1/2 a hit in the upper levels.
AC is king at low levels. It's just easier to get a high AC versus a high 'To-Hit' number. The problem is, AC doesn't scale as fast as you level...but it can still help vs those secondary attacks you start facing.

My suggestion -
With 2 front line melee fighters, I'd look at grabbing a Reach Weapon and fighting through your front line fighters. This allows a couple of different things.
You have a meat shield in front of you so no need to worry about casting interrupting.
You can still do good damage.
Allows you to fight in corridors.
Allows you to take a AoO of anything trying to get to you.
If wearing a mailed gauntlet, you threaten adjacent squares and squares at range.

I'd advocate for going with the Crusader Cleric, I'd also go with being a dwarf, get the bonuses to Con and Wis, you are also never encumbered by the heavy armor (your speed is always 20). These work out pretty nicely for a up front and personal battle cleric. Just some food for thought if you want to bash things with a weapon instead of always pew pew from afar.

As far of the question between AC & Toughness, I agree with @Matt2VK and grabbing higher AC, toughness is only 20hps total and that's at level 20.

I'd get toughness or Dodge if your dex is a 13, get a +1 to AC and get Mobility later +4 to AoO. Don't really see why you need combat casting AS LONG AS your not in a threating square and can't provoke.

The issue is with creatures with reach. Unless you yourself take a reach weapon, which means you would be giving up a shield unless you take a specific archetype that bypasses that (not aware of one for cleric). You can't withdraw and cast, or 5 foot step as that's still in range. With combat casting you can just buff yourself or use Cause Wounds with a noticeable bonus to your concentration.

My 2 cents, but at low levels I think it's just more effective for a battle-cleric that can cast in melee. Toughness isn't all that it's cracked up to be when you can give yourself temporary hit points or health what you had.

It all depends on your group and how they approach battles though.

How high level is the campaign going? At high levels, even a starting 12 in Dexterity can become an 18 or 20 with small investment.

I'm a melee cleric in PFS. Dunno what options your GM is allowing in your campaign, but I went with Armor of the Pit for +2 natural armor, a 14 DEX, and a mithral breastplate. This puts my AC exactly equivalent to full plate, except I'm technically in light armor so I get full movement speed, can sleep in it without penalty, only have a -1 ACP, etc. Even if your 12 DEX is locked in, being a tiefling with Armor of the Pit would still leave you only 1 point behind full plate, which you said you're disinclined to use.

Even so, I'm seriously considering taking Toughness in addition to having a solid AC, so there's that. You can click my name to see more details if you like.

Dark servitude wrote:

I'd get toughness or Dodge if your dex is a 13, get a +1 to AC and get Mobility later +4 to AoO. Don't really see why you need combat casting AS LONG AS your not in a threating square and can't provoke.

The issue is with creatures with reach. Unless you yourself take a reach weapon, which means you would be giving up a shield unless you take a specific archetype that bypasses that (not aware of one for cleric). You can't withdraw and cast, or 5 foot step as that's still in range. With combat casting you can just buff yourself or use Cause Wounds with a noticeable bonus to your concentration.

There is the Dwarven Chain-Flail which you can use with 1-hand if you take the feats to do so like Chain-flail Master and Darting Viper. It's a pretty cool weapon for a dwarf only.

Supreme wrote:

Dark servitude wrote:

I'd get toughness or Dodge if your dex is a 13, get a +1 to AC and get Mobility later +4 to AoO. Don't really see why you need combat casting AS LONG AS your not in a threating square and can't provoke.

The issue is with creatures with reach. Unless you yourself take a reach weapon, which means you would be giving up a shield unless you take a specific archetype that bypasses that (not aware of one for cleric). You can't withdraw and cast, or 5 foot step as that's still in range. With combat casting you can just buff yourself or use Cause Wounds with a noticeable bonus to your concentration.

There is the Dwarven Chain-Flail which you can use with 1-hand if you take the feats to do so like Chain-flail Master and Darting Viper. It's a pretty cool weapon for a dwarf only.

...I didn't even know such feats existed for the Dorn-dergar. I guess I have a Dwarven Battle Cleric to make! :)

The OP doesn't want their movement speed dwarfed (pun intended). So I think having the dwarf race is a no-no.

But I could be wrong.

Dark servitude wrote:

I'd get toughness or Dodge if your dex is a 13, get a +1 to AC and get Mobility later +4 to AoO. Don't really see why you need combat casting AS LONG AS your not in a threating square and can't provoke.

The issue is with creatures with reach. Unless you yourself take a reach weapon, which means you would be giving up a shield unless you take a specific archetype that bypasses that (not aware of one for cleric). You can't withdraw and cast, or 5 foot step as that's still in range. With combat casting you can just buff yourself or use Cause Wounds with a noticeable bonus to your concentration.

My 2 cents, but at low levels I think it's just more effective for a battle-cleric that can cast in melee. Toughness isn't all that it's cracked up to be when you can give yourself temporary hit points or health what you had.

It all depends on your group and how they approach battles though.

Well each player has there own play style with clerics. I've honestly been able to get away of not having to make those con check in melee yet cause I use my ability's at this level (yep I'm a meta gamer that just came to me). can alwasy doom and command your enemies lol.

Yeah I made a dwarven stonelord paladin with the dorn-dergar (now called the dwarven chain-flail meh :/). Getting the added feats makes it pretty nice and the visuals (at least to me) are cool.

Well each player has there own play style with clerics. I've honestly been able to get away of not having to make those con check in melee yet cause I use my ability's at this level (yep I'm a meta gamer that just came to me). can alwasy doom and command your enemies lol.

I am making assumptions for the OP, Assuming that the cleric will always be in enemies faces, and thus won't be able to cast from distances.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far, however, I should have specified up-front some decisions are already set and non-negotiable: I'll be a human, and my domains are set (Luck and Love). The Love subdomain will help me avoid melee, ranged, and magical attacks, but won't help me vs. AoE effects. If you'd like you can read more about the character and see his build here. I'm joining the party at level 4, and it's a play-by-post campaign so I don't expect it to get past midlevels.

A reach weapon is an interesting idea, but it doesn't fit the personality I'm going for (confident to the point of recklessness) and I believe the Arcane Duelist already fights with a reach weapon.

I considered Combat Casting, but it seems like there will usually be a 5-foot-step away if I need to cast, most of my spells will probably be buffs anyway, and if I'm threatening then I'll probably just be attacking with my greatsword anyway.

Matt2VK, by "run speed" I meant the speed when I'm taking the run action (for those times when you just need to beat a hasty retreat.) In heavy armor that will be 60 feet, in medium it would be 80 feet.

I was hoping someone could convince me that Toughness is worth it, but the consensus seems to be that Heavy Armor Proficiency is the more solid choice, so it looks like I'll stick with that.

Luck and love huh, Lust would be better IMO cause you can get the chance to get an enemy to actually do what you want them to do, but if they make the will save they still have to do something for you, like fall prone (while making loving notions for you), give you a item that's important to them, or just walk up to you. all are GM's choice though sadly.

Honestly, I have Toughness on my Life Oracle, who spends most of his time in melee, and I in no way regret taking Heavy Armor Proficiency later, rather than sooner (the plan is to get it at level 5, and he's level 4 right now).

He's in a Carrion Crown PbP game, and the lack of money to be found, plus the complete lack of any heavy armor to be found/bought until later on would have made it a wasted feat for him.

So, I agree that Heavy Armor Proficiency is probably the better deal IF you have access to some, but you may not.

Another place where Toughness shines for a cleric is if the cleric does a lot of Shield Other.

Shield Other is a great spell for a cleric that does a fair amount of channeling as it helps to spreads out the healing more. It is not so good for a melee, up front cleric.