IIRC, another requisite of Dervish Dance is 3 ranks in Perform (Dance), so you probably won't be able to get it at level 1 anyways.
Edit: sorry, 2 ranks.
@Sileven I'm going to have to say my gut reaction was no on the racial weapon group idea. It is unbalancing because we are already using EitR rules and the fact that any wizard could become a weapon master in a range of different weapon is unfair to those who depend on weapon superiority (like fighters).
But I did say I wanted more diverse characters. This new rule would have more people using elven blades without to overwhelming the game balance. So yes. I thought about it and I agree.
WOW! Thank you. Earliest it will impact this build is Rogue Finesse Training at level 3. Which is still really early. I don't expect that to matter again until the second Fighter Weapon Training at level 9 and then the projected additional Weapon Focus feat at level 15. LONG lead time on that.
Assuming I'm selected, of course. Won't really matter to me if not. <grin>
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I'm putting together a Sarenite Fighter (Dawnflower Dervish) / Cleric (Cardinal) and I'm wondering how EitR works with scimitars. Can they be used with Dex for attacks? I don't see them specifically mentioned anywhere and I can't find the weapon groups mentioned.
Does Dervish Dance still exist? I don't see it listed or mentioned as removed. If Dervish Dance does exist, can it be taken at 1st level since Weapon Finesse is gone?
Since a Scimitar is neither a light weapon nor explicitly called out as allowing Dex to be used instead of Str for the attack rolls, it does not gain that ability under EitR.
The weapon groups are the standard Fighter Weapon Groups, with any allowances the GM makes for other groups (such as the Racial groups discussed above).
EitR includes only a portion of the full rules set. The rest of the rules are available, but some adjustments have to be made (such as removing PBS, Combat Expertise, Mobility, Power Attack, Deady Aim, etc. as pre-requistes for other feats.
Note: Fighter Finesse, an advanced weapon training option, allows the Fighter to use Dex instead of Str for attacks with all members of that weapon group, whether they normally allow for Dex-based attacks or not.
Thanks for the information hustonj. I'll wait for official word from GM Turin, but if that's the case I'll probably not apply. I don't want to go back to the drawing board and it's almost offensive that scimitar, which is the oldest, original dex to damage weapon in the game, was almost uniquely excluded while all the others were grandfathered in.
There may be an advanced weapon option, but I'm not going to wait half the length of the game for something like that to become available. That far into things it's pointless. You either didn't build to use it or you did and suffered half the game waiting.
Hey GM Turin, going through the Background questions and I have a couple of questions of my own - hope that is ok :)
How relevant will all this background info on the characters really be? Will it actually see any use in game? Many times I see applicants bend over backwards with complex, deep stories for their characters which never actually see the light of day during the games, are never incorporated in any way, etc. Hence my question, and also some curiosity about how you actually plan to run the game - do you expect character's backgrounds to play a role, not really, or somewhere in the middle ground? Of course character stories are always relevant for their personality and outlook of course, and most of the times also interesting to write, but still my question remains :)
My next question is perhaps more unusual, and of course if it goes unanswered it will probably not impact most of the recruitment process, but... Why should we apply/commit our time and effort to build characters to apply to your 'Wraith' (:D) of the Righteous game? What will make it a good, enjoyable, captivating, adventurous and engaging game? Of course you will need dynamic and interested/interesting characters, but what about your own role in it? How do you plan to make it a memorable experience? Or perhaps that is not necessarily your goal (it could be just to learn more about PF1e, or PbP like you said in your OP, or perhaps any other reason at all), in which case - what is it? :)
I hope my questions are not offensive in any way, as that is obviously not the purpose. And being a DM myself I perfectly understand how much hard work it is to be in that position, so my hat is off to you just for the fact you are willing to run the game. But the truth is there are really a lot of 'bad' games going around the Paizo forums, and the PbP www in general, so I would like to know more about you as a DM, and the game that you are planning on taking your players through. That will help me also make my decision if I want to continue with my application or not.
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I just came up with a more interesting build.
Given the super genorous pointbuy, mythic and Gestalt, I will be a 2 weapon Skillmonkey with one of the biggest list of class skills ever seen, aka a Slayer/Spell warrior (Spell warrior is a Skald Archetype that does not screw over allies, they can cast spells, and also get rage powers and weapon enchantments).
6 skill points, ok int, 3 good saves, bardic knowledge and versatile performance, here I come!
How it will play:
--Very early levels: Have a Bardiche, throw an axe, dare enemies to come close and provoke AoOs.
--Relatively sturdy with medium armor and D10 hit dice, access to mirror image and blur
--Weapon song to imrpove everyones weapons
--OK scout with stealth and perception as class skills, as well as access to invisibility
--7 skill points (inclduing int bonus) per level, could be 8, but I will probably trade out skilled for 60 feet dark vision
--Weapon focus axes means a bonus with melee axes, thrown axes, and a bardiche.
--Getting a belt of mighty hurling at some point is important, otherwise pretty easy on equipment requirements.
--Pretty reasonable face due to 16 cha and versatily performance
He is mostly ready. I will swap skill points possibly spells (dancing lights can be very good at level 1, but he himself doesnt need it, i could also swap in CLW for hideous laughter) maybe some other stuff around if selected, based on party needs.
I was considering Stygian Slayer, but bard spell list has invisibility.
So much cool stuff, since mythic eldritch heritage is a thing, a melee could essentially yoink the Orc or Abyssal Bloodline for an investment of 2 feats and a mythic feat, and get those juicy scaling inherent bonus to strength.
Hmmm, If I ditch the rather feat hungry 2 weapon throwing, and just grab two weapon fighting, I would have the feats. And well, Abyssal heritage would be very very thematic.
Mythic arcane strike is also rather lit on a spell warrior.
I can use it, when mythic is picked up at level 6 or so, to add something like Evil Outsider Bane to my own weapons, and then add like, flaming and keen, to everyone else weapons and my own, and I do sneak attack with that. Definitly a funny offensive build!
Jereru is finally going to apply with an Arcanist/Magus. Primary spellcaster with some touches to make it more well-rounded.
Added some more background.
I essentially have 3 different version, which come online at slightly different points and have slightly differnet capabilities.
However, all of them scout, disable devices, are lore skill monkeys and buff martial characters in particular into the stratosphere and are reasonable faces.
None of them ever intend to roll vs spell resistance.
Where they differ is how early thrown weapon come online, and how hard they are locking into using them.
Some big changes but my character submission is closer to ready than not now. Instead of fighter I remembered there's a Whirling Dervish Swashbuckler archetype. Changing to it solved a lot of niggling problems. But it made the Cardinal cleric archetype obsolete so I switched to Divine Paragon.
So, Parvin is an Azata-Blooded Aasimar Swashbucker (Whirling Dervish) / Cleric (Divine Paragon) of Sarenrae from Qadira.
She is as close to church aristocracy as one can be, and has come to prove herself worthy through works in the Dawnflower's service before returning to her homeland and a future of leadership positions in her church.
Her return home might be unexpectedly delayed...
Parvin still needs some background work and general editing. I haven't finalized wealth and gear yet either. I think I've answered most of the submission questions in her BAP sections, but I'll also put them in so they're easy to find in one place.
Here's a link to my arcanist (occultist)/alchemist (mindchemist) elf, Aris'arial! She's a summoner and debuffer, primarily. I may switch her spells around a touch, and her items need some tweaking, but she's mostly ready.
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Recruitment will end November 14, at Midnight I know making a character with so many options is hard but I have to end it some time.
LOL. The title was a typo. I posted it early in the morning.
I Have three players that get preferential treatment. Two have made characters and one is working on one. That leaves two slots open. I hope that doesn't discourage to many people.
@TheWaskally Sorry, but the clever godlings are to powerful and I'm already allowing a lot of powerful choices. So no.
@Albion, The Eye Yes. you can multiclass as much as you want. And yes ask as many questions as you want. First don't feel you need to answer anything you don't want to. Most of it is just so I know how to "see" your character. The stuff about your family I will be using for another reason. You next question is hard to answer without giving up to much information about the campaign. I hope you will apply because you want to play WotR. I do make several changes, additional encounters, NPC's, that sort of thing. I remove a few things I didn't like. I not be pulling punches at certain points, especially mythic trials. I really don't know what else to say except that.
@Viktor Hämndson I will allow Sanguine as it is powerful but not in effect all the time. The luck bonus I mean.
@Jereru mae a character you want to play. I just said that stuff about the bard to be funny.
@nightdeath yes archetypes are allowed so is archetype stacking as long as you obey the rules.
@rdknight As hustonj said scimitars are considered to be in the heavy weapons group. But the feat allows you to use it as a finesse weapon. And as Jereru mentioned Dervish Dance does require 3 ranks in Perform (dance).
Yes, it's not the bard that has me worried. It's the fact that there are three people out there who can decide to lock up to three positions, and one of them could be the one I'm applying for.
I think I found a combination that could be easily tweaked between arcane caster, melee and ranged/other, and which I like enough so as to apply with, so I'm going to work with it. Actually, I have some holidays starting on Halloween, so I can use them to focus on this, since the deadline is way beyond.
Recruitment will end November 14, at Midnight I know making a character with so many options is hard but I have to end it some time.
@Albion, The Eye Yes. you can multiclass as much as you want. And yes ask as many questions as you want. First don't feel you need to answer anything you don't want to. Most of it is just so I know how to "see" your character. The stuff about your family I will be using for another reason. You next question is hard to answer without giving up to much information about the campaign. I hope you will apply because you want to play WotR. I do make several changes, additional encounters, NPC's, that sort of thing. I remove a few things I didn't like. I not be pulling punches at certain points, especially mythic trials. I really don't know what else to say except that.
@GM Turin: Thank you for taking the time to reply, and lending a better notion of how you plan to run the game :)
I also realize now the Recruitment will be running for at least 20 more days, after which only two players (apart from those already reserved) will be selected. To me personally it feels like too long a time to build up toward a game, with minimal chance of being selected. So for that reason I will bow out from applying - wish you good luck, and a great game!
@GM Turin, I swapped Viktor over to a TWFing skill monkey, he is no longer an Oracle.
Due to gestalt and a genorous pointbuy, he can kind of face, scout, buff, lore checks and fight in a frontline.
His weakness is a relatively low willsave before force of personality is picked up at some point.
He is kind of squishy (no shield, medium armor), but his DPR is going to be very very tasty, and he will pick the morally ambigious world serpent totem, also known as the "OUTSIDERS GET OF MY LAWN" totem to greatly assist with overcoming damage reductions.
I do think that WOTR is more interesting with one Anti-Hero in the party, which is the narrative slot that Viktor is going for. He is still a hero.
Dont worry, neither my chaotic evil nor my chaotic neutral characters steal from the party, initiatve pvp or anything like that.
Now, putting out a bounty on the Paladins Virginity in Act 4, but only if it is taken consensually and the Paladin gives it a 5/5 stars review later, in order to increase a certain notoriety mechanic, without telling the Paladin, yes.
@rdknight As hustonj said scimitars are considered to be in the heavy weapons group. But the feat allows you to use it as a finesse weapon. And as Jereru mentioned Dervish Dance does require 3 ranks in Perform (dance).
Thanks Turin. I switched to the Whirling Dervish Swashbuckler archetype, which makes Dervish Dance a class feature. I don't actually need to take the feat anymore.
I'm still going to put some points in Perform Dance though, because she is a trained dancer.
@rdknight As hustonj said scimitars are considered to be in the heavy weapons group. But the feat allows you to use it as a finesse weapon. And as Jereru mentioned Dervish Dance does require 3 ranks in Perform (dance).Thanks Turin. I switched to the Whirling Dervish Swashbuckler archetype, which makes Dervish Dance a class feature. I don't actually need to take the feat anymore.
I'm still going to put some points in Perform Dance though, because she is a trained dancer.
So, Dervish dancing to powermetal?
Viktor probably sings/performs oratory like something between Rammstein, Metallica and Sabaton.
I'll have to change my name to Eric Adams, then :p
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Just to let everyone know the three that get preference are Mightypion, Robert Henry, and MordredofFairy
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Just to let everyone know the three that get preference are Mightypion, Robert Henry, and MordredofFairy
All would be great to have in a party, and with all three, it's gonna be a fun read!
While doubtful, I might toss in a character for funsies, as I like to see how theory builds fair! Might go with a Bard/Oracle so there would be knowledges galore.
@rdknight As hustonj said scimitars are considered to be in the heavy weapons group. But the feat allows you to use it as a finesse weapon. And as Jereru mentioned Dervish Dance does require 3 ranks in Perform (dance).Thanks Turin. I switched to the Whirling Dervish Swashbuckler archetype, which makes Dervish Dance a class feature. I don't actually need to take the feat anymore.
I'm still going to put some points in Perform Dance though, because she is a trained dancer.
So, Dervish dancing to powermetal?
Viktor probably sings/performs oratory like something between Rammstein, Metallica and Sabaton.
Um... I don't think Parvin would find the groove in that. Now if Viktor plays the clarinet like Selim Sesler that would be a whole different matter.
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Might go with a Bard/Oracle so there would be knowledges galore.You want to seriously dominate the academic world?
Dwarf Bard (Dwarven Scholar) / Unchained Monk (Perfect Scholar)
You lose Inspire Courage, but can share Feats with Bard Song instead. Quite an interesting gestalt build I stumbled on.
I find it especially entertaining that you can succeed at the main Bard Songs without any ranks in Perform. He's bad, doesn't know it, and everyone wants the benefits, so . . ..
Oh, it's a great build, and I'm going to enjoy watching it in the other WoTR game. I'd want the ability to cast from both Arcane and Divine trees, with a possibility of a different type of MT on the bard side.
Eh? I am chaotic neutral, not actually evil.
Um... I don't think Parvin would find the groove in that. Now if Viktor plays the clarinet like Selim Sesler that would be a whole different matter.@rdknight As hustonj said scimitars are considered to be in the heavy weapons group. But the feat allows you to use it as a finesse weapon. And as Jereru mentioned Dervish Dance does require 3 ranks in Perform (dance).Thanks Turin. I switched to the Whirling Dervish Swashbuckler archetype, which makes Dervish Dance a class feature. I don't actually need to take the feat anymore.
I'm still going to put some points in Perform Dance though, because she is a trained dancer.
So, Dervish dancing to powermetal?
Viktor probably sings/performs oratory like something between Rammstein, Metallica and Sabaton.
Hmm, I could genderswap Viktor and turn him into Viking Simone Simmons/Tarja Turunen/Floor Jansen.
That is too symphonic for my taste, I'd rather you be called Johan Hegg :)
So, Dervish dancing to powermetal?
Viktor probably sings/performs oratory like something between Rammstein, Metallica and Sabaton.Um... I don't think Parvin would find the groove in that. Now if Viktor plays the clarinet like Selim Sesler that would be a whole different matter.
Hmm, I could genderswap Viktor and turn him into Viking Simone Simmons/Tarja Turunen/Floor Jansen.
The problem isn't gender, it's genre.
Dotting. I'll be submitting a Monk (Ki Mystic / Monk of the Four Winds / Monk of the Iron Mountain) for consideration.
Actually, I think I'm in over my head here. Seems like everyone is multiclassing and start level 2? I know nothing about WotR.
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Therenger, this is a Gestalt game. You basically start at 1st level in two classes at once.
I would like to put up Marcel, Shifter (Holy Beast)/ Inquisitor (Sanctified Slayer) for consideration. Here is the answers to the background questions.
1. What is your character’s name? Marcel DuBouis
2. How old is your character? 23
3. What would somebody see at first glance (i.e. height, weight, skin color, eye color, hair color, physique, race, and visible equipment)? Marcel is of average height with broad shoulders and chest. His angelic features who up in his hair with looks more like feathers then traditional humanoid hair. He has dark eyes and his skin is tanned from his time out in the wilds scouting for the Crusade.
4. What additional attributes would be noticed upon meeting the character (i.e. Speech, mannerisms)? He has a lingering Taldane accent as he was born in Taldane and his parents migrated when he was young to take part in defending against the Crusade.
5. Where was your character born? Where were you raised? By who? He was born in Taldane and raised by his parents. His mom was an Osirion who married his father who worked as a marine on a Taldane ship. They moved to Taldane until Marcel was ten and then decided that they should move to aid Mendev.
6. Who are your parents? Are they alive? What do they do for a living? Francois and Aali Dubouis are Marcel’s parents. They are currently alive. Aali works at a local bakery in Kenebres and Francois has joined the watch after his years of service as a Marine for Taldane.
7. Do you have any other family or friends? Marcel’s best friend is Zander Hon, a young half elf who he works with to scout around the city and watch for incursions.
8. What is your character’s marital status? Kids? Single, no kids.
9. What is your character’s alignment? Chaotic Good
10. What is your character’s moral code? Marcel is interested in doing good. He does not seek out violence, but was taught by his father to do what was right. Marcel is more of a free spirit then his father was though and often feels like the rules of the city make it harder to keep the people safe. Because of this he has found a preference in being out in the wilds where he can use his abilities and not be as bound by the red tape of those who work in Kenebres.
11. Does your character have goals? Marcel wants to help out Kenebres as his parents have. He also seeks to settle down with a bride once he finds someone who shares his passions.
12. Is your character religious? what deity? Marcel is a devout worshiper of . Aali, his mother, introduced him to Bastet. He found an inner calling to the god of Cats and is a devoted follower to the Goddess. He finds her protective nature and her influence in nature as primary reasons to follow her teachings.
13. What are your character’s personal beliefs? Marcel loves being out in nature. He is also very protective of those he comes to care about.
14. Does your character have any personality quirks (i.e. anti-social, arrogant, optimistic, paranoid)? Marcel likes to make jokes and can be overprotective in some social scenerios.
15. Why does your character adventure? Marcel likes being outside of Kenebres and his father’s influence in coming to protect the city is a high influence on him.
16. How does your character view his/her role as an adventurer? Marcel views himself as a scout who is in touch with nature and searches for dangers to the city.
17. Does your character have any distinguishing marks (birth-marks, scars, deformities)? Marcel is a Garuda Aasamir and his hair bunches up and almost looks like feathers.
18. How does your character get along with others? Marcel is generally a friendly guy and in general gets along with people even though he stumbles some in social settings. He can easily grow tired of large crowds and so avoids them. He does best with only a few people at a time.
19. Is there anything that your character hates? Marcel hates sewers. Early in his time he was sent into the sewers of Kenebres to look and see if there was smuggling going on. The despoiled nature of the sewers, the enclosed area, and the overall atmosphere were terrible and he sought to never have that kind of job again.
20. Is there anything that your character fears? Marcel is slightly claustrophobic. He can be in a tight and dark place, but it grates on him and he avoids it in exchange for the open lands around Kenebres.
Beyond just this, you need to make sure you explain why your character is in Kenabres (Mendev) on Armasse (on 16th Arodus, 4712): Marcel works for the crusade as a scout. He is not that skilled yet and so often stays to the more civilized areas with his friend Zander to make sure that nothing gets past the borders to threaten the important farmers, traders and people who do not have the safety of Kenebres’ walls.
Therenger, this is a Gestalt game. You basically start at 1st level in two classes at once.
Okay, this is a level of awesomeness I have not previously experienced. Call me a newb. Thanks for the link!!
As this is the case I will instead submit a Monk (Ki Mystic/Monk of the Iron Mountain) / Alchemist (Vivisectionist/Ragechemist)
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Just to let everyone know the three that get preference are Mightypion, Robert Henry, and MordredofFairy
Hey GM Turin thanks for running the game and the chance to play with you three again.
Sadly, I'm just not seeing Wulfgar's backstory fitting and as I told you I'm in a long running WotR game already. Since I am stepping away from the recruitment it will open up a third slot for another player and you have plenty of quality folks applying.
I hope you, Mightypion and MordredofFairy have a good game, I'll be reading along occasionally. I wish everyone good luck and good gaming.
What sort of timeframe does the AP span... is Craft Wondrous Item viable?
*Not to be used for Armor Class, Combat, Saving Throw or Ability bonuses per ABP rules.
Owain is Jereru's application, an Arcanist/Kensai. I still have to buy his gear, but that shouldn't take more than half an hour, I guess.
I've got to say it's usually very tempting, when building Gestalt, to try to bite from every sandwich: Arcane spells, divine spells, buffing, debuffing, damage, healing...
I, however, believe a party should be more than five one-man armies. It's difficult, because Gestalt puts many resources at your command, but I've tried that the character is more or less well rounded though not omnipresent. As for now, the idea is that Owain is a caster with some melee back up, but if needed and with a small tweak he could be the other way around. Whatever fits better with the group.
I intend to take my time with this character submission. Seems like there is no need to rush this build given the recruitment window. Lots to think about.
Tireless... LN Android uRogue (Knife Master/Scout) / Ranger (Demonslayer/Divine Tracker of Abadar) using two-weapon fighting - kukri.
Possibly a clockwork/construct agent of an Abadaran (law, travel, portal) sect that calculated/prophesied the anomaly/current events and dispatched them to investigate weeks prior, arriving now.
Mission is to report on and neutralize bad actors that shouldn't be... here, threats to the natural order and balance.
Mix it up close quarters, special forces style. Simple, yet should be effective.
What sort of timeframe does the AP span... is Craft Wondrous Item viable?
Wellthat depends. There is a downtime portion and kingdom building. But there is a sense of urgency inherent in the game. So mid levels yes you can use Craft feats. High level not so much. It really depends on the reactions of the party. My IRL group did it in a year and a half. But they pushed through till the end.