Protectors of Golarion (Wrath of the Righteous AP)

Game Master Sensen

I agree that if it's a swift action, you can use a full attack.

Just as a word of warning, I may not be able to get a post up today and definitely won't be able to do so tomorrow, for which I preemptively apologize - just a lot of stuff happening at this time of year for me.

Remember, dispel magic is a caster level check vs. a DC of 10 + spell's caster level. If the caster was the same level as us, that's only 50-50 odds per attempt. If the caster was higher level than us, as is likely for a permanent silence effect, we could be rolling at only +5-+8 vs. DC 20 or higher.

However, it occurs to me that I could use Prescience to have a better chance at it. If I hear from others that they'd rather try to dispel the silence than move through the courtyard to the other door, Verene will give it a shot.

Don’t worry, I have solved that conundrum.

I like it, Azira. Tactically it may not be the best move but from a pushing and logical standpoint it is. Let's just see what's behind there and handle it, come what may.

Lol.

Azira is:
- action oriented
- aware that the spell that makes her faster doesn’t last long
- unable to hear any discussion about going another route
- and, now, thanks to Elliot’s rapid approach, confident that everyone else is right behind her.

Moving forward, directly, seemed like a no-brainer.

Oh, I see the confusion, Elliot. Yes, that white circle is the marker for the limits of the magic circle against evil. I made it and have been keeping it centered on Verene since the magic circle moves with her and extends ten feet from her in every direction. There's no marker for the silence as far as I know, so it's an open question whether it's just in effect in the room that Nulkineth ran into (and died), or also in effect in the room we just stepped into.

It's just in the room Nulkineth died in.

Verene's Will save result should have been 2 lower, because the +2 resistance bonus to saves granted by magic circle against evil doesn't stack with her cloak of resistance +2 that is already incorporated in her Will bonus of +8. But fortunately, if Azira's 20 was fine, she should be fine too!

Oops. Thanks for letting me know - but you're still fine, yep.

Keeping things rolling. Not sure what all might be left, but keeping moving under the pretense they are moving as quickly as they can to remove threats.

Same here. The haste will be gone but Verene will renew her shield. I think that will have been the last big thing here, but there could conceivably be some lesser monsters in the stable.

We may need to think about beefing up the monsters or adding more of them, to deal with Elliot and Azira's damage output. I don't think that a nabasu is supposed to be one-rounded, to say the least.

P.S. Merixia, not to play your character for you, but if you want her to ever really get a hand on the ball, she shouldn't spend combat rounds buffing. Combat moves too quickly for that, even if we didn't have two high-damage strikers.

Yeah, I'm surprised the monsters in the mythic module do not seem to be that much stronger than regular foes, at least thusfar. It is true for Elliot though that he's down about 40% of his spells and 60% of his mythic power for the day, so depending on how much more resistance we encounter before the next rest his effectiveness might drop a lot.

That aside, while us not having enough power clearly isn't an issue at present, I do wonder when the book expects us to reach (normal) level 7? It feels like we've been through quite a few crusade situations and fights prior to this excursion and we are projected to reach Drezen tomorrow I believe. I'm not sure how extensive that fight will be but it feels like we might be nearing the end of the second book?

It's not really a fair comparison since 5 to 6 was literally one single encounter/fight, but it does feel like 5 to 6 was a long time ago relative to how many fights and challenges we've seen since then. Everything in Kenabres post-Garrison like the gunslinger, Hellknights and cultists, Truestone druids, saving Lyra and multiple other sets of civilian survivors; meeting with Queen Galfrey and getting commendations; two big set-piece army battles on the road with accompanying demon commanders; uncovering Nurah and Arles; and now this mini-dungeon.

I don't think we're close to the end of the second book, though. I believe all of Drezen is included in Book 2, and that is a very big multi-layered dungeon just like in the video game. I bet we'll level to 7 soon, or upon reaching Drezen, and then twice more by the end of that dungeon.

Yeah, I don't think the books were designed to deal with the high damage output the party has. It could also be that we'll see things turn as creatures get better DR and resistances. Maybe some mythic DR.

I am looking forward to level 7/mythic 2. Thesius will really take off as a skill monkey.

Mythic characters (that are willing to burn through their daily abilities) outmatch enemies that would be challenging at their CR for sure. I think that’s partly done on purpose in this module because we’re supposed to be the valiant heroes triumphing over the demon hordes. Some of it might also be that they didn’t have enough playtesting before release to get the balance quite dialed in?

When I’m GMing mythic games I do sometimes beef up enemies, but I’ve found that literally beefing up the enemies generally works better than beefing up encounters. By that I mean that adding extra enemies can skew action economy and have a bigger impact on balance than intended, but slapping the advanced template on 1-2 creatures in an encounter adds some attack power and durability without too many unforeseen consequences (though you do have to check that you don’t make DCs too high or we could all end up paralyzed at once or something). The other thing that I’ve found effective is extending the adventuring day. We don’t need 10 fights everyday, but if we occasionally have days with a larger number of fights (spread out so that we can’t get all of them with the same min/lvl buff) it forces us to be a little more reserved with our resources most of the time and that means less ‘nova’ attacks. With being mythic and everything, anytime we have multiple characters burning through resources like we did the last fight or two we will (and arguably should) put a hurting on most things pretty quick.

Sorry, Azira! Merixia's riding on a rage high with nothing to fight, she missed out on both Nulkineth and the nabasu, and she's still upset with Azira for leaving Wulfric behind. You just happened to catch the brunt of her temper.

@Verene: Verene would most likely recognize the effects of rage given that it is on the sorcerer/wizard list.

Level 7 is going to happen during your time in Drezen, yes. The way I handled the milestone thing made the 5-6 end up being a lot closer together than I think the XP way would've had it happen. And Verene is correct in that Drezen will have a lot more than just a single dungeon dive - just getting to Citadel Drezen is going to be a thing.

Notably, you're supposed to end the adventure at level 9/tier 3, so you get a sense of how big the Drezen thing is supposed to be. Of course, since we're not using the war system, I'll need to figure out how to adjust for that.

I do admit that I'm not wholly sure how to adjust the encounters further upwards, since I believe the AP is designed for four players with 15 point buy, rather than five with 25. But I will try to do so - notably, action economy is what totally decimated the "boss" of this area, but also that you're just outputting so much damage. I should probably start sticking more templates on enemies, it's true.

Ideally, I'll do it without relying on throwing mythic templates on everything, as the video game did.

Or just stick a lot more HP on them so they last longer. I second the recommendation for spreading out the fights as well. I’m used to long dungeon crawls, as you can probably tell, and blowing all my spells early is not a comfortable feeling. One of my very first tabletop games involved getting lost in the Underdark with limited supplies. :P Like the start of the AP but way bigger and without the village of friendly lost folk. That’s one of the few times I’ve had a GM make us keep track of food and water.

Yeah, I believe that reclaiming Drezen will end up being a lot more of a longer task, so the encounters should be more spread out.

The advanced template for more challenging foes might be helpful if you've not already been using it. Should be fairly easy to add as well.

I would be curious, are we supposed to reach level 20 mythic tier 10 by the end of this of the adventure path?

Ideally, I'll do it without relying on throwing mythic templates on everything, as the video game did.

Mythic stuff and often a bunch of PC class levels on top of the base monster, haha.

The advanced template plus Toughness/Mythic Toughness on monsters would probably help. Nabasu happen to have a built-in mechanic to scale them up - "growth points" - but most monsters don't and restatting them is a pain. To Merixia's point, one trick I've also sometimes used as a DM is to give a monster max HP. That is, if a nabasu or something is listed as 9d10+54, it has 90+54 HP even before applying anything like an advanced template.

I've added those new weapons to the treasure sheet.

I'm really interested to learn where they got these people, since the land around here is so barren of life.

It's definitely a good question. Thesius will be making notes on the place later as it will help spur his archaeologist's background again.

To answer your question, Thesius, yes, you will be up to 20/10 by the end of the adventure path. Mythic heroes, do big things, etc. etc.

The max HP thing is a great idea, at the very least. I'll probably throw advanced templates on a few more things, as well. Not going to go overboard with mythic stuff, since that's a lot of things to track. xD

Cool. That may make Thesius the most un/skilled half-elf in Golarion by the end of it.

I don't think that allowing Wulfric to use the banner will be much of an issue since it's personal. It would make him for viable in combat for a limited period of time, so unless you're aiming to take him out at some point I doubt it will make much different beyond the chance for a little more damage and survivability.

I hadn’t read the pinion’s description when I posted, that was just the question that occurred to me/Azira based on what Verene said. Wulfric is designed for support and will probably never even step into melee unless it’s just to give someone a flank, so that may limit the item’s usefulness in his hands too. That said, if nobody else can use it, he might benefit from the bonus to saves, and to skill rolls, if we want to let him carry it until we’re in a position to sell it? Assuming that he can, in fact, attach it to his banner/flag.

Thesius doesn’t have any interest in switching to a reach weapon? In addition to being able to use the pinion that could potentially help with positioning in tight quarters if you were?

I'm honestly thinking of moving him into Starknife if given the opportunity. He has proficiency since his last level.

It might be worth him taking the longspear for the time being though. However, he tends to have his own spell slots for Heroism. So I could see Wulfric holding on to it until we find someone better for it or sell it.

Elliot is locked into scimitars barring some mythic finesse shenanigans. I dont see him switching to a reach weapon though nor do i see him ever using the banner outside of maybe using it just to cast heroism once per day. Still, it makes the most logical sense for wulfric to take it.

I'll try posting a post to react to Meri's excellent rage tantrum tomorrow, but otherwise i am good to continue. Is there anything else we need to do here other than consecrate the shrine?

Verene: The healing potions are cure light wounds potions. There's enough "to outfit the PCs' army, granting them the healing potions resource (Ultimate Campaign 241). There are enough potions here to allow the army 3 uses of the resource before it is depleted." Whatever that means. I suspect that it's a fair few, though. I'd just call it "cache of healing potions."

I see, so the healing potions are only meant to interact with the mass combat system... which we're not using. That's pretty disappointing, as the cache was the whole reason we came up here in the first place. Could we maybe change them so they still do something tangible? I don't mind giving them to the army, I just would like that to have some measurable effect on the outcome of the next few battles so we know it did them some good.

Re: knight's pennon of battle, I think anyone could get a spear or quarterstaff for purposes of attaching the pennon, and just go around with it strapped to their back without needing to use that weapon. Merixia would be my recommendation, actually. As Thesius says, he can already cast heroism, and as a buff that could be applied well in advance of combat because it lasts so long, heroism would help her keep up with the other melee characters. Note though that the bonuses don't stack with bless or most of what Wulfric is doing. If Wulfric's flag has a long pole it's attached to, I also see no reason the item wouldn't work just as well attached to the pole.

That +1 cold iron longspear we found in the stable definitely could be a great choice for Thesius's primary weapon in the immediate future. A reach weapon means he won't be as likely to get hit, and he won't have to worry about demon DR and switching between weapons. At least, not until everyone starts having to worry about demons with DR/cold iron AND good.

Verene could also use the pennon, but is less likely to be making a lot of attack rolls. It would primarily be good for her saves and skill checks. Too bad it doesn't apply to caster level checks or I would definitely want it.

Elliot: As far as I know, yes, we're just waiting on Merixia to de-desecrate/re-consecrate the shrine before leaving. Verene could probably do the first part by using Wild Arcana to dispel magic the desecrate effect, but she can't consecrate it again, and isn't really interested in doing either one; that seems more like the cleric and paladin's area.

How would you envision the cache of potions impacting things, Verene? I'll definitely keep the casualties lower than I otherwise would have, but if you have concrete suggestions, I'll definitely take them under advisement.

The next time we get some downtime, I think I'm going to have Thesius start retraining some skill points to make better use of some of his abilities.

Are there any particular skills we feel like we're lacking? He'll soon be pretty close to full progression on all of them, but need to select some to focus on.

I'm also going to start reviewing spells as I want him to eventually pick up mythic spells for things like Mythic Heroism.

I'll try posting a post to react to Meri's excellent rage tantrum tomorrow, but otherwise i am good to continue. Is there anything else we need to do here other than consecrate the shrine?

Excellent, that's kind of what I've been waiting for before posting.

Re: knight's pennon of battle, I think anyone could get a spear or quarterstaff for purposes of attaching the pennon, and just go around with it strapped to their back without needing to use that weapon. Merixia would be my recommendation, actually. As Thesius says, he can already cast heroism, and as a buff that could be applied well in advance of combat because it lasts so long, heroism would help her keep up with the other melee characters. Note though that the bonuses don't stack with bless or most of what Wulfric is doing. If Wulfric's flag has a long pole it's attached to, I also see no reason the item wouldn't work just as well attached to the pole.

Ooh, I hadn't thought about having a flag backpack thingy. If everyone else is okay with Merixia claiming the pennon, I agree that heroism would help her lackluster combat performance. Eventually I might transition her to more of a spellcasting role, since that's where the hierophant truly shines, but that's several levels and some character growth away yet. The main reason I went the melee route to begin with is because we were starting at level 1 and clerics typically spend all their spells on healing at low levels. (Also because Ragathiel.)

How would you envision the cache of potions impacting things, Verene? I'll definitely keep the casualties lower than I otherwise would have, but if you have concrete suggestions, I'll definitely take them under advisement.

Thanks for considering it. It's hard to know how big a difference the healing potions resource should make since we haven't been doing things that way so far. Maybe whatever numbers you determine for casualties on our side could be halved, or cut by three-quarters, or like if there were going to be 40 dead and seriously injured, we could roll 5d8 and reduce it by that number. Without the mass combat system, the outcomes and number of casualties are always all up to the GM anyway. That's the reason to use the system, I guess. Maybe I'll play around with running both sides of a mass combat later today, just to see how it could go.

Posted @Merixia.

Sorry, I had a slight wrench thrown into my planning for the day when the commission assigned to judge whether or not I'd done everything to get my doctorate suddenly decided I'd forgotten to do a certain assignment... when 4 months previously they themselves forgot to put it on the list of outstanding tasks when I asked them about it.

Anyway, that is hopefully resolved now. It did however take a lot of energy and after boxing lessons I sort of fell asleep instantly. :')

Worldwound GM wrote:

How would you envision the cache of potions impacting things, Verene? I'll definitely keep the casualties lower than I otherwise would have, but if you have concrete suggestions, I'll definitely take them under advisement.

Thanks for considering it. It's hard to know how big a difference the healing potions resource should make since we haven't been doing things that way so far. Maybe whatever numbers you determine for casualties on our side could be halved, or cut by three-quarters, or like if there were going to be 40 dead and seriously injured, we could roll 5d8 and reduce it by that number. Without the mass combat system, the outcomes and number of casualties are always all up to the GM anyway. That's the reason to use the system, I guess. Maybe I'll play around with running both sides of a mass combat later today, just to see how it could go.

Sure, that seems reasonable. I'll toss in a random die aspect into it to make it more visible for you all.

I spent several hours yesterday running through the two mass combats we've had so far "by the book" to the best of my ability. I definitely think we made the right decision not trying to play it out over PBP. The system is slow and highly complex but quite rigid and limiting in what it can simulate; frustratingly vague in places; and all the d20 rolls felt like they made outcomes too random. Still, even rolling like clownshoes for us and really well for the enemy, in both permutations of it I did, the Knights of Kenabres came out of the first battle with full HP and the tiefling army defeated. (In the second permutation, after I realized I had made two dumb mistakes in my first attempt, they took no damage at all and killed the enemy army in one hit.) In the second battle they ended up with 14/16 hp after defeating both enemy armies. Basically, the Channel Positive Energy/Lay on Hands abilities that the paladin army have are already really, really strong. And the healing potions resource heals double what either of those do per use. Essentially, I think it's supposed to be extremely good, and I would bump up my estimate for what it should do based on that.

If anyone wants to read my writeup of what could have been had we decided to use the mass combat rules, it's here.

Sorry I haven't posted for a bit, it's been a bit of a trying time of late. If anyone wants to convince Verene to dispel magic, feel free - alternately, Merixia can double-cast consecrate, because consecrate can dispel desecrate.

Merixia herself can also cast dispel magic, so I figured she had it under control. Just let me know if that's not true; otherwise, I will assume the enemy-burning and crusader-burying succeeded, and am ready to move on.

So if I opt for a double consecrate, do I still have to make a check to dispel the desecrate? Merixia’s last attempt at dispelling didn’t go so well.

No, you shouldn't have to make a caster level check. According to the example in the FAQ about using a diametrically opposed spell to dispel its opposite, it simply happens.

(There is a small material cost every time one casts consecrate, though.)

I apologize for not responding sooner. After days of anxiety and a few breakdowns, I'm finally caught up on my lab exercises! I better not get sick again this semester. I don't think my nerves can handle it.

Although my professor did tell me I had a good grasp of the subject and try to convince me to go into spatial statistics when I went to see him for some help on a particular topic. That was unexpected.

Dr. A: You should do this for a living! Come work for the university!
Me, outwardly: O_O
Me, inwardly: I would rather stab my eyeballs out with a rusty spork.

Glad you caught up and good to hear from you, Merixia.

Yeah, happy to have you back, Meri. What are spatial statistics, on the side? Are those formulae for calculating the exact dimensions of objects or trajectories? Sounds a bit complicated either way but math was never my favorite subject.

I'll roll the wand recharge rolls here for previous and current day. As I think every important wand is already reasonably full, I'll do the true strike one for myself.

True strike wand recharge: 1d10 + 1 ⇒ (3) + 1 = 4
True strike wand recharge2: 1d10 + 1 ⇒ (5) + 1 = 6

On the side, @Worldwound GM, part of why I approached Aravashnial game-mechanically is because I'd like to (eventually) retrain one of Elliot's magus arcana's. His wand-wielder arcana, chosen at level 6, has never been used yet. The arcana he would like to change into is Spell Blending, to add a wizard spell to his spellbook, which hopefully Aravashnial could help him with. Though both the spell he would want to learn (heroism) and the spell he is after for the Merixia scene (major image) are level 7+ so at present he cannot learn either yet.

I'm glad to have you back, Merixia, and hope things improve for you soon.

Elliot: that's fine by me! Aravashnial's more than happy to help his (former?) student.

Sounds good! I think Elliot still considers Aravashnial as a/his teacher even if he might have graduated from the black library. He'd be humble like that even if he at some point might become a technically stronger arcane caster than his former mentor.

@Others Some of my patients didn't show up today and I had a bit of free time to think about where to go with Elliot eventually on the mechanics side. I originally envisioned him as more of a side-kick character, so I'd like it if he has a support focus more than a pure damage one. His main debuff abilities (which haven't really been used yet due to cold resistance issues) are complete at level 7 and when using his main melee spell, Rime'd Frostbite, hitting an enemy with it inflicts entangled, fatigued and shaken.

From level 9, when the next one or two feats become available, I think I'll move him into a teamwork feat provider. Shared Training, a rather cool level 2 spell for that, at level 9 allows sharing two teamwork with three allies for 90 minutes per cast. So he could, for instance, grant all 4 melee characters outflank and paired opportunists at once and every 4 caster levels there's one more he can grant/share (seize the moment, escape route, shake it off etc seem like good ones). I haven't really seen that used as a focus on a magus build yet and it might be because it takes almost all your feats, but it still sounds fun and flavorful and seems decently effective for the investment. Does anyone have any strong feelings or advice on this? As I'll admit straight away that I am not the best mechanical player ever to grace the game of Pathfinder.

He might also be able to get Mythic power attack with a bit of investment into str to help the damage out a bit further, as well as the Hurtful feat perhaps, if that is legal to use. But more damage doesn't seem to be a problem at present.