I'm super relieved to hear those results weren't as tragic as I thought they'd be. When the results of all your dice rolls could've been made on d6s, well, one gets a little alarmed, y'know? :)
Jim is a grown man, and (in accordance with the site's community standards) the only buggery that will take place on this ship will be among consenting adults.
Our game will never be as gritty as real world pirates but one thing that helps me with immersion is remembering that the world of our game has been shaped radically differently than our world by the prevalence of magic. A lot of awfulness IRL grows out of scarcity and having people around who can improve harvests, heal injuries and disease, and conjure clean drinking water (just to name a few) would naturally lead towards a less terrible world. Plus, while this particular ship is morally gray (and therefore not generally interested in the truly dark aspects of piracy) I have tried (most notably with the Maiden's Virtue) to show that there is some darker stuff going on in the Shackles.
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I can see where you're coming from, and in certain situations I fully agree. With create water and purify food/drink being orisons, it's very easy for the village priest or shaman to provide for others. In fact, it may even be a reason to start worship to begin with. However, I do think these improvements are subject to both moral viewpoint and governmental influence. These improvements can be hoarded by selfish practitioners for personal gain, much like controlling the water supply in a post-apocalyptic desert. Those who are powerful, like the military of a government, can also search and remove the more... generous practitioners who threaten this hoarding for personal gain, by means of force or legality. Thus creating scarcity once again. In the real world, for example, the scarcity we suffer isn't so much from a lack of resources, but rather the paywalls, red tape, feuds, and exploitation that restricts them.
Perhaps I never fully understood the story of the Maiden's Virtue (I'm assuming that's the hauntings of Blue Booby Island), but from the little I gathered, murder out of jealousy, by means of a clean gunshot to the head, isn't exactly all that dark. Surely it's subjective, but I don't see it as dark.
I would like to reiterate that I'm not advocating for a darker or grittier tone. Keep the game as is. My first point was simply that I struggle with immersing myself in something that I know in the real world to be pretty harsh or dark, but in game to be (from my perspective) near utopian. It's something that I as a person have to work through.
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@Aersten, I was convinced you would be ejected from the ship and would have to just bring in Aersten the 2nd.
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LMAO, I'm imagining Aersten with a pair of Groucho glasses on.
"Hello, my name is Guy Incognito..."
Paddy- the Maiden’s Virtue (a pirate ship associated with the captain/treasure you found on the island) was known to offer survivors of its attacks a choice between rape and joining their crew, so that survivors who did join were said to have ‘preserved their virtue’- thus the symbol of the skull and crossed-legs. I thought that was reasonably dark for a of-13 game?
And, obviously, there’s always going to be greed and warlords and manufactured scarcity, but I think magic effects the shape of society beyond that, perhaps in unexpected ways? For example, women are just as likely as men to be powerful magic users (plus sexual dimorphism is less extreme in game, so female warriors are just as dangerous as male ones), so there would likely never be the kind of gender inequality we see in many RL societies. On top of that, with many gods and goddesses granting magic ability to followers you don’t get the rise of a monolithic religious patriarchy like arose from the Abrahamic religions, which would likely lead to even more gender equality. That increase in equality alone might not seem like it would impact the amount of awfulness aboard pirate ships, but, because of it, a ship like the Night Talon is almost 50/50 men and women where a traditional RL ship would usually be 100% male. Positions like a peg boy were sometimes accepted as a sort of necessity on an all male ship but there’s far less cause when half the ship’s woman. Likewise, male sailors preying on female sailors would be less common because they’re far more likely to see them as equals (or, at least, as viable threats if it came down to a fight); and women are less likely to have been shamed as a means of control, and therefore more likely to be sexually freer than has often been the case in patriarchal societies. I don’t know, that’s how I’ve understood Golarion society, at least?
Paddy- the Maiden’s Virtue (a pirate ship associated with the captain/treasure you found on the island) was known to offer survivors of its attacks a choice between rape and joining their crew, so that survivors who did join were said to have ‘preserved their virtue’- thus the symbol of the skull and crossed-legs. I thought that was reasonably dark for a of-13 game?
Oh interesting! I did not put those pieces together, but I would definitely agree that that's much darker than what I thought occurred.
"...For example, women are just as likely as men to be powerful magic users (plus sexual dimorphism is less extreme in game, so female warriors are just as dangerous as male ones), so there would likely never be the kind of gender inequality we see in many RL societies...."
Objectively, I agree that men and women would be equally capable of casting magic, however culturally may not be the same. As a counterexample, men in the Old Norse pagan faith were discouraged from practicing magic like their female counterparts, for it was deemed unmanly. Women, which I think came from the mother archetype, where more often seen as nurturing healers (I'm now referring much later to Nordic witch burnings) compared to their male counterparts, who were seen as necromancers.
"... with many gods and goddesses granting magic ability to followers you don’t get the rise of a monolithic religious patriarchy like arose from the Abrahamic religions, which would likely lead to even more gender equality...."
Asmodeus in Cheliax is an excellent example of a monolithic religion that is trying to survive in a pantheon of deities. Of course the worshippers don't claim that all other religions are pretenders, but they do acknowledge Asmodeus as the most important deity, outlawing almost all other faiths which they try to eradicate relentlessly. I do think Asmodeus is patriarchal, though most of that is chalked up to how much of Christianity is barrowed since he's literally the ruler of Hell and Devils. However, I do think (and this is uneducated speculation) that the gender of the deity worshipped does play a part in which gender is seen as more important among its worshippers. I can see more men following Cayden Cailean, Nethys, and Torag (as examples) than women, and more women following Calistria, Shelyn, and Desna than men. The only deity that I know of in Golarion that would go against this trend would be Gozreh, but even then it would probably be segregated among the Wind and the Waves sections. Of course this doesn't mean that all faiths would have one gender behind a wall for prayer, but it may very well influence which gender is considered more 'in the god's image' or at least have a more visual referrence for role model.
Cont.
"...That increase in equality alone might not seem like it would impact the amount of awfulness aboard pirate ships, but, because of it, a ship like the Night Talon is almost 50/50 men and women where a traditional RL ship would usually be 100% male...."
If there's no cultural establishment of gender roles and no sexual dimorphism, then yes I fully agree that we'd have roughly a 50/50 divide between men and women.
"...Positions like a peg boy were sometimes accepted as a sort of necessity on an all male ship but there’s far less cause when half the ship’s woman. Likewise, male sailors preying on female sailors would be less common because they’re far more likely to see them as equals (or, at least, as viable threats if it came down to a fight); and women are less likely to have been shamed as a means of control, and therefore more likely to be sexually freer than has often been the case in patriarchal societies....
I think if homosexual relationships were legal and socially acceptable at the time period, very few would ever care about a peg boy. In a similarly accepting culture, then yes I fully agree that women would be seen as equals on a ship. In the shackles for instance, I think we're talking about Cayden Cailean, Besmara, Calistria, and Gozreh as the main deities, yes? I see plenty of sexual freedom and acceptance there, for both men and women.
"...I don’t know, that’s how I’ve understood Golarion society, at least?..."
I don't know either, but I thank you for voicing your thoughts with me. I don't think the world of Golarion would be nearly as wonderful as we tend to view it, but I do see pockets of really nice possibilities. It's complicated.
Paddy-
The explanation about the Maiden’s Virtue was behind a knowledge check spoiler, but I though someone repeated at least part of it to the party.
As for complexity and optimism, whole worlds should be complex, and I think Golarion is? You’ve got nations like Cheliax or Irrisen where most people toil under tyranny, and places like the worldwound where demons just wiped out the entire human population and took over. And even in the nice places, like Varisia there’s old Thassalonian places of power twisting people to commit murder, goblin and giant attacks on all kinds of settlements, and all kinds of other dangers.
My suspicion is that most players (and GMs) tend to focus more on the more wonderful bits just because most people don’t want their hobby to be a downer (especially with everything else going on IRL these days)?
My suspicion is that most players (and GMs) tend to focus more on the more wonderful bits just because most people don’t want their hobby to be a downer (especially with everything else going on IRL these days)?
I’m definitely in that camp. Why fantasize about being in a world that’s so bleak there’s nothing I can do to make it bearable? I prefer a broken world that my character at least *thinks* s/he can fix.
My suspicion is that most players (and GMs) tend to focus more on the more wonderful bits just because most people don’t want their hobby to be a downer (especially with everything else going on IRL these days)?I’m definitely in that camp. Why fantasize about being in a world that’s so bleak there’s nothing I can do to make it bearable? I prefer a broken world that my character at least *thinks* s/he can fix.
(raises hand)
One more for that camp. I have a spot down by Things Can Be Better Brook. The view's really nice!
I'm somewhere in the middle. Depending on the theme of the game. Happy to be evil if evil is what we are playing (though there are plenty of lines I do not want to cross even in pretend). Hedy will kill, torture, mutilate, or let people go with a pat on the head and better luck next time depending on what she thinks is best. The beauty of being in the middle.
I'm imagining we'll have a lovely disagreement depending on who our prey ends up being.
Ahhh, so that's how my "busted straight" of bad die rolls (2-3-3-4-6, just needed one of those 3s as a 5) comes back to haunt me! :D
I actually really like dark, gritty, and depressing. Maybe it's my millennial brain. Not quite Grim Dark, but pretty close. I enjoy being able to eek out just a little bit of good and 'better' for the world, when everything feels against me. Small things, like finding and returning a wedding ring to the blacksmith so he can feel at peace, because I care about him. Makes me feel like I made a difference. In the wonderful campaigns, I feel inundated by success and positivity. It doesn't feel real or earned.
*** The GM looks pensively at his phone and shrugs. Drawing a pen and a pad of sticky notes from the nearby desk drawer, he scrawls a hasty note. “Paddy wants his life to be sh!ttier, be harsher to him.” Nodding with self-satisfaction, he sets down the pen and returns to his phone, eager to see if the gameplay thread has provided an opportunity to realize the dwarf’s desire. ***
I sure hope you're being sarcastic GM
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Let me know if my last gameplay post was more what you were looking for?
Not bad. I do remember clearly saying that I didn't want the game to change, and I am concerned that you've been triggered and are trying to take out your frustration on me, but Paddy did get to post, and there's the possibility for a decent scene.
No trigger here, just a little bit of lighthearted teasing!
In all seriousness though, I do want the game to be enjoyable for everyone and if what you enjoy is eeking out something positive from a grim existence, I am willing to make your existence more grim. But only if that’s what you really want. Nobody else’s life would be more grim for it, Paddy would just be having a tougher time with things. If that’s something that you actually want to explore PM me and we can talk more about how it would play out.
No thanks, I think it would be weird to adjust the tone of the game per player. I'd rather try to adapt to you guys, and explore the good stuff.
@GM, not rushing you as Saph’s date was a lot of work on your part. Just wanted to know if I could use my last 3 Diplo rolls to get add’l info, since what I did get from the first 6 days was good, but I felt Saph would want to follow up.
If I have to commit to making crew friendlier, she can start on the doctor she brought on board.
Either way, I’ll post reporting to Hedy once I know whether or not I’ll have new information. (And I’ll wait for the info of course if more is to come.)
@Saph- I can feed you some info on slavers if you want, but honestly I'm not sure that's going to be the kind of target you're hoping it might be... the plunder on slave ships is slaves, so unless you guys are going to be alright with selling them off in port there's basically zero money in going after them. You might get a little loot off the officers you kill, and you may be able to salvage a ballista or two if they have them, but there's not going to be any real take (or even money to pay for repairs and the crew). If you still want that info instead let me know and I'll get it for you, otherwise I'll apply your rolls to the doctor.
@Hedy- I think we're pretty well settled in port (and anything left we can handle in spoilers), so if you want to make a heading back to sea post I think now is the time.
Ack! Just realized something I forgot as a contingency: 2x potion of enlarge person. Assuming this gets posted before Cap'n Bogg sets us off, I can throw this on my inventory, yes?
@Aersten- Yeah, and shopping can be handled ‘off camera’ unless you want to RP it, so as long as have the gold (and deduct it) you can go ahead and just add those to your inventory.
@Everyone- I know some of you are new (or started over) so your equipment was done from scratch, but those of you who are continuing on (or continuing with just some modifications), please let me know what you’re spending your money on if you haven’t already. Also, if any of you are frugal wealth hoarders, I’m not going to force you to spend anything but I will share my opinion that it’s better to live poor than to die with a sack full of gold.
Rolls to Doc is fine. How about the Day 9 attempt to meet the Siren’s master at arms?
If I’m allowed the attempt, I’ll apply that 27 to it. I realize that could go either way due to a fail 7 days before. I don’t know if meeting my equal in rank helps any.
@Saph- days 7 and 8 you have great success welcoming the doctor and making him feel like part of the crew (I’ll update the roster shortly). When you failed before it was looking for the influential Free Captain (Tessa Fairwind), not the crew of the Siren- on day 9 you look for those recent regatta winners and learn that they’re not in Port at all (apparently part of their prize was an island that they had to go tame in order to claim it and join the pirate council, so they’re off working on that).
Peta, which is of course a well known (and notorious) cavalier order.
Lol- I think there is a cavalier order devoted to protecting animals... order of the saddle maybe?
Hey, those count. Paddy just said Jerk had to bring him dead rats. There was no stipulation that said Jerk had to have killed them.
@Aerin, I believe you can take ten to craft a Headband of Alluring Charisma. (DC13 or DC18 w/o Eagle’s Splendor.) Will ask in-game if you don’t object outta-game… or if nobody else does.
@Everybody Else, I consider Saph in the back of the line for wondrous items, since she already got one to “test” Aerin. But if no one else wants anything, CHA adds to my AC and DC and whatever else WIS does for a normal monk.
Saph, now you have me thinking maybe I ought to pick up an Amulet of Natural Armor (this assumes Aerin can do them at cost, right?). Would use up half the gold I've still got at hand, but it does me more good in that form.
I believe that’s the arrangement: she would craft two days and you’d pay 1000g.
If no other takers, days 9-14 allow time to craft both the amulet and the headband.
Assuming Aerin is good with that as a use of her time (LMK), I'll post something in Gameplay with the request.
I'll look shortly. Hedy spent most of hers on the ship, crossbows, and a few formulas. And enchanting her pistol :)
There might have been at least a lingering look at dear Saph during that speech. :)
Aerin would you craft Hedy's cloak of resistance +1 to a cloak of resistance +2? 3000 total cost.
Also at one point, a talisman of beneficial winds, greater. 500 total cost.
If you are willing, any schedule is fine, of course.
One day, Jerk will have a higher intelligence than Paddy, and Paddy is worried about it.
Order of the saddle probably wouldn't make the cut, since horseback riding is discouraged for Peta. Hahahaha
Are we all just piling our magic item orders onto Aerin?
I believe so, with her always welcome to say NO. As well as determining the order of doing them. Crafting is wonderful, THANK YOU AERIN!
And with that song, Paddy, you have just assured that I will only hear you as Quint from Jaws. :)
I got too caught up in Spanish, British, etc., and misread the last line as “thirty-five languages.” If I didn’t catch that it says “leagues,’” Saph’s response would have been:
三十五？我只知道九個！
Aerin can craft some items, but bear in mind 2 things...
- first, it takes time, so if you try to pile too much stuff on her you might wind up waiting a while to get things, and...
- second, if she fails a check materials and time are both wastes (delay other items and offsetting any cost savings), so you should really only ask for things she can take 10 on.
I’m assuming that she’s going to ok with doing it (since she’s the one who pointed out she could), and the ship is fully crewed so she’ll be free to craft everyday.
@Hedy (and everyone who wants to chime in) are we headed for the local shipping lanes or up towards the inner sea? The merchants are much fatter in the latter, but your chances of running into the Chelaxian navy are also much higher...
My request is a 4-day job. I think we just make requests and Aerin gets to them in the order she decides. (I volunteer back of line, since I got Gloves already.)
I looked up Quint and I fully agree. Louder and less cynical, but yes definitely.
聯賽！你真傻！
你真傻！
Usually on purpose (so I tell myself), but not that time.
Normal shipping lanes would get my vote. Mostly untested crew against the navy would not be a great gamble.
Murillo concurs. Local shipping lanes to break in the new crew.
Been having a bit of a challenging week. The published rules for one ship taking another at sea are clumsy and not well suited for PbP. I’m going to rework them, but I haven’t gotten to it yet. I’ll post my version as soon as I get a chance to finish it and give everyone a chance to comment or ask questions or whatever. In the other pirates game that some of us are in together we pretty much gloss over all the naval stuff and get right to melee, but I’d like for ship upgrades and people’s sailing skill to have some bearing on things so I’m working on a simplified system that doesn’t completely give up those things. I’m hoping to post it tomorrow, but we’ll have to see.
Fair nuff. Looking forward to it!
Yeah I ran a ship vs ship combat a while ago in Hedy's group, and it was... awful.
Small question:
I know that Plunder is an abstraction that represents the stuff we loot from other ships. Does the Night Talon have a corresponding abstraction that represents how much Plunder she can hold?
That's a smart question