The Magician's Table

Game Master Tarren Dei

I'm finding them confusing as well. I didn't actually go as far as to figure out his income as the character has been off the job market for a while and had no income.

I think you've found the way to calculate your Net Income After Monthly Lifestyle Costs.

That should get us started.

If you were a lawyer and were "struggling" you'd have 3,300 Net Income. I think.

I don't know how it increases over time yet. I'll keep an eye out.

Oh, yeah - I think I see now.

So the ranks within each tier are somewhat arbitrary.

It has us start at the top of Tier 1, but for a harder game you could easily start players in the middle or at the lower end. When we gain Tiers via advancement, you have the option of keeping us at the same relative position (eg: go from the top of Tier 1 to the top of Tier 2) for consistency, or you can use this as a means to curb wealth (eg: go from the top of Tier 1 to the middle of Tier 2).

This would also be why there are 4 tiers of Salary but only 3 tiers of Careers. If you had a Tier 2 career at +2 Income and a Tier 1 career at +1 income, and you're treating it as "at the top of the tier", your Tier 3 income is now 3 steps into Tier 4.

So, yes, I think my assumption was right, that if we're starting at the top of Tier 1, as it assumes, then my income is actually Tier 2 Rank 2.

That's what I would think too.

Does that mean you start the game with that much in cash too? It is the 80s after all. Nowadays 2 weeks income is what most people have available statistically, but back then a month at least.

That's my understanding but I also don't know how... much that really amounts to because most things in this book don't have prices.

I think we're meant to assume the costs are whatever we can Google? That would put most pistols in the $500-1000 range and rifles up as high as ~$1500. And then something exotic like an AK-47 would run you something like $3000. That seems to track with the armour prices, too, I think?

It seems expensive off the bat, especially when you consider other things you have to pick up (flashlights, first aid kits, lockpicks, etc), but it seems like wealth would increase pretty exponentially.

Although, I suppose there is also an impetus for most characters to go for the highest lifestyle they can since lower ones impose a penalty on Charisma checks. So while I feasibly could choose to be Homeless and make $4,500 per month (though that doesn't work for my character), I'm much more likely to be Established and only make $1,100 per month.

Which means I can probably buy a jacket, maybe a pistol, a few doodads, and have a couple hundred in cash, which I think checks out.

Given that this is the 80s, I feel like costs should be about half of what the price would be for a similar item today. Things were cheaper then. At the same time, pay has been fairly stagnant. It would be fair to push everyone down two notches on the pay scale if prices were halved.

Or we could just have unrealistic pay and unrealistic prices. Halved prices and two notches down on the pay scale is more realistic and benefit players.

Either way, we will also keep it loose and not get overly concerned about money when it would bog things down.

I think that my gripe with the system is I can't find a definition of what the monthly income modifier does. As far as I can see, it's just something sitting on each of the careers. Not sure if it moves up the table (and if so how much), or if it does something else entirely.

As far as using book prices for things goes, I'm fine with just keeping things as they are in the book. It makes it easier to just look at a table and not need to mentally modify things.

@Ythiel/Tarren: I was thinking that the reason we're in Okham is that there is a university there, which is the university that I attend and Valeria teaches at. I'm just finishing up my backstory now and should have it added to Arianna's alias once completed (I'll drop a quick post when it is).

EDIT: and I just finished it and have it posted to her alias. since it's rather long, the TL:DR is: Arianna found a sword in the palace while playing tag, which imbued her with her bloodlines when she cut her finger on the blade. In high school, she became a streetfighter at night for the thrill of it and ended up fighting something that was quite like a vampire. She ended up in college.

There is a university in nearby Odgen, Ogden College, not far from Okham. I expect we will end up there eventually. To get to Ogden from the North or East, you would pass through Okham.

What department are you in? Some NPCs might already know you...

Theology for Valeria!

Arianna is also studying theology.

So quick question: What do you think about using automatic bonus progression for this game? I think it thematically fits, but I wanted to get your take on it.

Here is a link to it.

So, are they new to the College? Are they just transferring there for the semester? Or, have they been there a while?

Arianna and Valeria could be passing through Ockham on their way to Ogden College. If they had heard the rumours in Europe as discussed earlier, they might even be surprised at the coincidence of seeing La Vierge in the wharf in Ockham. If they had extensively investigated the rumours, they might have known it was coming here and planned to see it.

Regarding automatic bonus progression, I think I want to try to stick with the rules as recommended in B&BM as much as possible, just to experience them. It wouldn't take effect for quite some time anyhow though...

There is a university in nearby Odgen, Ogden College, not far from Okham. I expect we will end up there eventually. To get to Ogden from the North or East, you would pass through Okham.

I expect to run into Lee Reynolds.

Tarren the Dungeon Master wrote:

There is a university in nearby Odgen, Ogden College, not far from Okham. I expect we will end up there eventually. To get to Ogden from the North or East, you would pass through Okham.

I expect to run into Lee Reynolds.

It's 15 years later and Lee did okay for himself in the revised timeline. He's not working security anymore, he's not drinking, and he owns a really nice place up in the woods. Not having his fingers broken by the mob really made a difference in his life.

I don't expect you will see any time travellers in this adventure though.

Arianna is a freshman at Ogden college.

regarding abp, I'm fine with that. I just offered it as a suggestion since it seems to fit the theme of the setting.

I appreciate the suggestion. I just don't have a strong enough sense of B&BM yet to know whether or not it is a good suggestion. We may revisit the idea as we climb levels if we find the lack of magic item bonuses creates vulnerabilities... It might turn out to be a really good idea and, hopefully, we'd realize that before someone got eaten.

At least in games I've run, ABP has been great for both players and myself as the GM, as it frees up slots for more interesting items and makes it less of a headache when figuring out loot for encounters.

Forgot my ability rolls.

4d6 ⇒ (1, 5, 3, 5) = 14
4d6 ⇒ (4, 6, 5, 1) = 16
4d6 ⇒ (2, 4, 3, 6) = 15
4d6 ⇒ (6, 6, 2, 6) = 20
4d6 ⇒ (2, 3, 6, 6) = 17
4d6 ⇒ (5, 6, 4, 2) = 17

My stats are 13, 15, 13, 18, 15, 15

Pretty damn good if I do say so myself.

Do we have more detailed characters creation info yet?

Those are good stats.

I built my test character using the B&BM rules starting on p. 35.

Step 1: Determine stats (DONE)
Step 2: select arcana and determine threshold
Step 3: Select bloodline
Step 4: Select Class
Step 5: Select Career
Step 6: Feats and Traits
Step 7: Finishing Up

I think I'm mostly done?

How are we handling wealth and equipment?

STARTING WEALTH

Okay, I can't find a part for starting wealth. If anyone did, let me know.

I'm going to make up something and it will hopefully be fair.

Take the Tier 1 Most PCs Start Here, make adjustments for any traits or careers, add you Charisma bonus, and take the "Base Salary." Double that amount; this is Maine and someone is going to need a vehicle. The car will probably be used and possibly threatening to break down if you go to stingy on it.

EQUIPMENT

One rule they had for buying equipment was if you can find it online at that price, that's the price. I know there wasn't an Internet in the 80s, but let's use that rule. Of course, the things today aren't the same as the things there, but look for the appropriate level of tech. (I should buy Top Secret off of Ebay. It had an Equipment list with prices, didn't it?

We will use base salaries and modern pricing. It won't be realistic with the prices in the 80s, but I don't remember much magic in the 80s either, so we can pretend. Of course, this really screws the college students with costs of tuition and textbooks going through the roof during these decades ...

Thoughts?

Arianna doesn't know how to drive =)

Speaking of career wealth/lifestyle, how did you want to handle Monthly Income Modifier?

EDIT: Also, Here

I'm guessing Valeria would have moved strategically here to do her PhD abroad. I would tend to imagine that, at 27 years old, she's already halfway through (about two years in at least).

I guess it all depends on how recently the monks have left Europe and how she came across this information. She might have heard of them after they already left Europe, for instance, and strategically did her PhD abroad to get closer to where they were spotted last -and that would be Maine.

Alternatively, she might have not heard about them while she was in Italy and up to her neck in studies and exams. She might have moved to Maine for completely different reasons (maybe there's just a renowned theology specialist who lives there and who can supervise her PhD). In that case, she would either have stumbled upon the monk story recently and just happens to be in the same area as they are, or she might have heard about them in Italy, never really knew what to do with that information back then, and recently found their track again. Whatever works best with what you have in mind! :)

Regarding Valeria, I'd like some advice regarding my stats. They're not super good, and it's kind of annoying that not one of them can have a +3 bonus, even with racial modifications. As for builds, I imagined that Valeria could be either a Caster or a Ranged Occultist, but I don't really see that happening with no +3 Stat and a small Dexterity bonus. Unless a more experimented player has an idea of how a different build could work, I guess it would make the most sense for Valeria to be a Melee Support with those stats.

I can only really see two sets of stats:

Str 15 (13)
Dex 12
Cons 12
Int 15 (13)
Wis 10
Cha 8

or:

Str 14 (12)
Dex 13
Cons 12
Int 15 (13)
Wis 10
Cha 8

What would you advise?

While these stats aren't bad, they do seem worse than the other players' stats so far, and even worse than the NPC I rolled up for fun.

How about a choice: take 1 point to add to one of the 15s to make a 16 or a reroll and take what you get even if worse?

These characters aren't supposed to be 'superheroes' and they make it sound like an 18 strength is "World's Strongest Man" level of strength.

At the same time, I'm going to try to challenge all the party members and some of them are quite buff compared to yours.

Let me know when you're ready to get started ... We can get going any time really.

I just need to do gear / equipment.

I am ready.

Unfortunately, I'm kind of struggling with RL right now. I've got three research papers to write (including one on Hamlet... Hi @YoricksRequiem!) and a hospital bill I have to take care of.

Besides, I need to give some thought to that stats thing. A +1 Dex bonus for a spellcaster is not that great, to say the least, but I have such rotten luck that I'm hesitant to reroll! I need some additional to weigh the pros and cons and see how I could still build a decent character by just boosting Int to 16...

I'll try to create Valeria by the end of the week. I'm really sorry, I hope I'm not slowing you guys down...

Need to wrap up equipment, but pretty close :-)

@Ythiel: If you'd like, I can get you something statted up, as I have some free time atm. I would just need to know which implements you want to start with (I'd recommend Abjuration and Transmutation, but you do you).

I don't feel anything is being slowed down. I'd like to get into the story slowly by introducing the rumours and the PCs reactions to them in a kind of 'pre-game' that tells us how (or if) these individuals who barely know each other all end up in Okham when La Vierge is there.

I feel like it starts with Arianna and I would like to start by roleplaying that out a little. Perhaps Arianna contacted her professor or perhaps she contacted her family lawyer first and had him do some research.

Jerry will be arriving in Okham following a different trail of rumours as will Jack Miller.

Unless we needed rolls for research, stats wouldn't be important until PCs get to Okham.

Works for me!

I'm definitely envisioning Jack and Jerry having run across one another before (not least because they're in the same-ish field, and have some geographic proximity)

Given that Jerry has an view of the police that defaults negative, it might not be a friendly relationship though...

@Arianna Grimaldi: I'd very much appreciate your help, thanks a great deal! Abjuration and Transmutation do seem like the best choice. I was interested in Divination, but it's probably better to select it later on.

Here's something quick for you. I tend to prioritize defensive over offensive options, so feel free to change things up as needed.

I’ll have my alias up later today.

@Arianna Grimaldi: Wow, thanks a lot!!! :O I wasn't expecting you to do the whole character sheet! That's so nice of you! I'll review it today, see if I'll want to change a couple things, but I tend to prioritize defence as well so it probably won't be much.

Just a quick question as I'm starting to read it: I don't really get why the Dex bonus is boosted to +2?

the resonance power for transmutation is:

The implement enhances its bearer’s body. When you invest mental focus in the implement, select a physical ability score. The implement grants a +2 temporary enhancement bonus to that physical ability score for every 3 points of mental focus invested in the implement (to a maximum of +2 at 1st level, plus an additional 2 for every 6 occultist levels you possess).

While you can add it to any physical attribute (as well as change it on a day-to-day basis), Dex is probably the best investment right now.

Ooooh, didn't realise the Gameplay thread was already up. I'll try to finish my Equipment today and get an intro post up.

I've got three research papers to write (including one on Hamlet... Hi @YoricksRequiem!) and a hospital bill I have to take care of.

Ooooh, what's the paper on?

@YoricksRequiem Post-Gender adaptations of Hamlet! :) Androgynous Hamlets, genderbent Hamlets, cross-dressed Hamlets, transgender Hamlets... you name it! I'm still in the research phase though, so I I don't really know what the organization plan will be.

I'm finishing Valeria's character sheet (thanks again, @Vrog Skyreaver, I really didn't have to change anything! I don't think I could have come up with something that good!), and I'm hella confused about the equipment part.

Since I have no bonus related to career or Charisma, I'm guessing I'm starting with 1000 dollars, but I have to admit that I'm really lost regarding the "just look it up on the Internet" rule. For instance, there's an Occultist kit, but I'm not seeing any price in the rule book, so do I have to look up every item to come up with a total? As an occultist, I'm proficient with 'simple weapons', but what would that even entail in a modern setting? Could I technically choose a rapier for my Bonded Weapon (the feat doesn't apply to firearms apparently, which... is really unfortunate)? Or would that put me at a disadvantage if the other guys are all carrying rifles?

I mean, firearms are ruled out as Bonded Weapons, but the rulebook doesn't say anything against crossbows... Or catapults. :P

To be fair, Arianna doesn't use guns or drive, so I doubt you'd be at less of an advantage than she is...

Valeria will soon find her way into the game thread but stats won't be required yet.

Ian's ready to go, just need to transfer his equipment from my Dropbox Paper file into his alias.

Just double checking for equipment - what part of Tier 1 do we start at? There seems to be a range of about $3500/month that's all in Tier 1.

Also, the lifestyles make reference to certain baseline assumptions, which often include cars/homes etc. Should those come out of starting cash?

Just double checking for equipment - what part of Tier 1 do we start at? There seems to be a range of about $3500/month that's all in Tier 1.

Also, the lifestyles make reference to certain baseline assumptions, which often include cars/homes etc. Should those come out of starting cash?

Here's what I wrote above:

Take the 'Tier 1 Most PCs Start Here', make adjustments for any traits or careers, add your Charisma bonus, and take the "Base Salary." Double that amount; this is Maine and someone is going to need a vehicle. The car will probably be used and possibly threatening to break down if you go to stingy on it."

So, here's what I was thinking for STARTING CASH: take that $3,500 line, move up or down after considering your career, and then double the amount, and DOUBLE the amount. I wasn't even planning to adjust for lifestyle. I think that gives you a lot of money, but you may need money quickly, so don't spend it all...

Does that sound fair?
Subsequent months, we'll adjust for lifestyle.

My justification for doubling the money? It was the 1980s and people weren't living two weeks from destitution like we are now. People owed less on credit and had more in their banks.

Sorry, I don't see a 'Tier 1 Most PCs Start Here' in my copy, so thanks for the explicit start at 3500 :-)

Sorry, I don't see a 'Tier 1 Most PCs Start Here' in my copy, so thanks for the explicit start at 3500 :-)

There are a few places where the layout could use improving. In mine it has the words "Most" "PCs" "Start" "Here" spread across different columns about 8 lines from the bottom. I definitely think they could have communicated it better graphically.

Regarding equipment, I do have equipment prices from a 1980s RPG and could use those. They have an equipment guide in B&BM. Tell me what you're interested in buying and I'll give you a price. Keep some cash for the upcoming adventure too.