The Fall of Plaguestone

Game Master Eric Collins - France

The Fall of Plaguestone
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The Fall of Plaguestone - Current Map

To metagame a little bit (sorry) there is no time rush for the moment--

--so I will break the actions down into parts of days, even if some actions take less time than others.
It is mainly to split things up and so that you can all do things etc..
But I can easily add things that you do when what you did was short (like Tamerius probably spent a couple hours, even if he checks everything).


The Fall of Plaguestone - Current Map
Quote:
Is that Society roll a trained check? Because if not it would be HILARIOUS if Natsume the Unlearned beat it and y’all with your Dwarvish didn’t.

Yes, it is an untrained roll.

Go Natsume, show them all!


In fact, after rereading the secret check rules, I discovered you can reroll a secret check using a Hero Point as long as you know (of course) that one of them is happening. Fortune effects apply to secret checks (Hero Point is a fortune effect).
So, I haven't cheated (I prefer, I hate that). The only thing is that I rolled the die instead of our DM, but the result would have been the same considering my first roll, as I would have obviously failed.

Sorry about being obsessive, I'm too much in my character :D


Human Cleric 1| HP 16/16 AC 14| F +3 R +4 W +9| Speed 25| Perception +7 | Focus 0/1

I think that we all learn the rules here, so that’s good to know !


GM Wayfinder wrote:
Quote:
Is that Society roll a trained check? Because if not it would be HILARIOUS if Natsume the Unlearned beat it and y’all with your Dwarvish didn’t.

Yes, it is an untrained roll.

Go Natsume, show them all!

As a side note, Recall knowledge are Untrained rolls but also secret ones. Critically failing them gives you wrong info...

And considering our heroic rolls, we may currently have a bunch of incredible pieces of info out of this book :D


The Fall of Plaguestone - Current Map

One thing about Secret rolls is that:
• the Mis-Fortune effects usually can be applied
• the GM can choose to make any check secret, even if it’s not usually rolled secretl
• Conversely, the GM can let you roll any check yourself, even if that check would usually be secret
So it's kind of a free for all!

Since you use your Hero Point to "reroll a check" (I have not seen anything saying if that is before or after you know the result - what is rerolling a check?)

So, either you have to say so when such a secret roll is called for and tell me what value & under you want to have the die rerolled, as Giggett said before.
Or else I reroll a failed roll.


Natsume, you can affect swarms with weapon. It's over the time when they were immune ;)
They're just immune to precision damage, so no sneak attack for me :'(


The Fall of Plaguestone - Current Map

Since you are all level 1, try to use Recall Knowledge and such to learn those things in game rather than meta-gaming them.

40 xp for Creature 1 (as I said, in PF2 the XP is not split between people, it is based on groups of 4, and all get the same XP).

Current status:
Giggett - 16/18 HP
Dragh Goldenoak - 16/18 HP
Tamerius Archilus - 9/16 HP
Natsume Ren - 13/18 HP


Tamerius should heal himself before Natsume and I ;)


If Tamli tries to Lie to us, she's supposed to make a secret check. So, which one of us does it :P

Edit: How does it work? She's supposed to make a check against our Perception DC?


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The Fall of Plaguestone - Current Map

NO NEED TO READ THIS POST - unless you want to check out some of the rules.

If Tamli is lying to you and hoping you do not spot it, she will have made a Deception check, for Lie.
One single check for her (rolling the die) vs. all the Perception DCs of everybody in range/listening/checking her out etc..
Of course the GM has to give circumstances bonuses/penalties accordingly (all this is as stated in the rules).
If Tamli were to say she is Torag, probably no change in believing her [smaller](oh no, I just spoiled the end of the adventure!)
If no one beats her roll, then no one spots the lie and all believe it.

It is a Secret roll, and, just so you know, I have been doing some of my Secret rolls "elsewhere" (but with the dice roller). Otherwise it's a bit of a red flag if I have a Secret Roll spoiler under someone saying: "He went that way!"
And I find it simpler to roll elsewhere rather than add fake Secret rolls here and there to put you off the trail of the real ones (besides, then people think things are happening etc.).

Anyhow--
Lie (Deception) says that at the GM’s discretion, a creature that initially believes a lie might attempt a Perception check later to Sense Motive against your Deception DC to realize it’s a lie.
This usually happens if the creature discovers enough evidence to counter your statements.

My feeling is that in this case it would not work, since Tamli is not speaking more or doing anything to give hints as to what she said being true or not.

However--
Under the Basic Actions one can do (not under the Skills) you have:
SENSE MOTIVE [one-action]
You try to tell whether a creature’s behavior is abnormal. Choose one creature, and assess it for odd body language, signs of nervousness, and other indicators that it might be trying to deceive someone. The GM attempts a single secret Perception check for you and compares the result to the Deception DC of the creature, the DC of a spell affecting the creature’s mental state, or another appropriate DC determined by the GM. You typically can’t try to Sense the Motive of the same creature again until the situation changes significantly.

So, I would say that if Natsume "believes" Tamli - in the sense that she sees nothing strange or "off" in how she speaks, in this circumstance (where you are all trying to find out who killed Bort) Natsume can do a Sense Motive to try and read Tamli's body language (is she nervous, hoping no one disbelieves her, or that Dragh spots a clue or whatever).

Sorry, a rambling post, but just sharing some rule info' if needed.


I didn't know there were secret secret rolls :D
I never open the GM only parts, as it's GM only. But that's just me.

In current situation with Tamli, I think it's quite obvious we are all a bit suspicious. That's why I was asking how you wanted to handle it, as it's not much fun to make a post just to say: I want to make a Sense Motive check about the obviously suspicious person.


Female Human Fighter | HP 18/18 | 1 Hero Point | Perc’ +5 ; Stealth +5 ; Speed 20 ft. | AC 18 ; 20 w. Shield Raised | Fort' +7 ; Ref' +7 ; Will +3 | Active conditions:
GM Wayfinder wrote:
So, I would say that if Natsume "believes" Tamli - in the sense that she sees nothing strange or "off" in how she speaks, in this circumstance (where you are all trying to find out who killed Bort) Natsume can do a Sense Motive to try and read Tamli's body language (is she nervous, hoping no one disbelieves her, or that Dragh spots a clue or whatever).

That's more-or-less exactly what I'm driving at ;)


The Fall of Plaguestone - Current Map

It's not about opening them or not, but I am wary of having something that seems normal -- with a Secret roll at the bottom.

You ask Amora: "Do you know this plant."

[spoiler=Secret Roll

Amora: "No!"

Seems to raise more eyebrows than:

You ask Amora: "Do you know this plant."

Amora: "No!"


I must admit it happened to me a few times already :D
So I've stopped wondering, I don't know the adventure, so I can't know what I'm missing (or not).

I'd like also a check against Tamli if being suspicious gives me one. Giggett kind of knows her stuff about lying ;)


The Fall of Plaguestone - Current Map

Who is not suspicious?

If people Lie to to you it as passive resistance.
That can trigger a "passive" check later on if the GM feels that things change or are added.

If you want to also observed body language and behavior or how someone acts, then do so - getting a possible Sense Motive.
Like Natsume did.

Read Sense Motive though.

Sense Motive:
Critical Success You determine the creature’s true intentions
and get a solid idea of any mental magic affecting it. Success You can tell whether the creature is behaving normally, but you don’t know its exact intentions or what magic might
be affecting it.
Failure You detect what a deceptive creature wants you to
believe. If they’re not being deceptive, you believe they’re
behaving normally.
Critical Failure You get a false sense of the creature’s intentions.

Because you can Crit' fail it.
Imagine if the secret roll Natsume just "did" was a 1 - then she would be sure of having read something in Tamli that is not what Tamli actually is doing/feeling!


Human Cleric 1| HP 16/16 AC 14| F +3 R +4 W +9| Speed 25| Perception +7 | Focus 0/1

Personally I like the secret rolls and the Crit fail effects.


The Fall of Plaguestone - Current Map

It can be fun, especially in an investigation!


Female Human Fighter | HP 18/18 | 1 Hero Point | Perc’ +5 ; Stealth +5 ; Speed 20 ft. | AC 18 ; 20 w. Shield Raised | Fort' +7 ; Ref' +7 ; Will +3 | Active conditions:

Agreed!


Female Human Fighter | HP 18/18 | 1 Hero Point | Perc’ +5 ; Stealth +5 ; Speed 20 ft. | AC 18 ; 20 w. Shield Raised | Fort' +7 ; Ref' +7 ; Will +3 | Active conditions:

A traveler who wants to look at the stars in times of trouble sounds extremely Desna-adjacent.

Natsume's not trained in Religion, but I'm trying to figure out if that's something reasonable for her to know, being a nomad herself.

Recall Knowledge is secret as well, innit?


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NG Male Dwarf (Strong-Blooded) Wizard 1 | HP 18/18 | AC 15 | F +5 R +5 W +6 | Perc +4 (Darkvision) | Stealth +2 | 20 ft. | Active Conditions: ---

I love the discussion about the toilets and where one likes to pee :D So I will throw 2c's here.

Tamli is a half-orc, so in the dark confusing her with an orc is not unheard of.

With regards to the toilets. We didn't buy rooms in the Inn, that is why we sleep in the wagons. This means that no one probably is letting us use any of the toilets/bathrooms if they have any.

The Inn had rooms in the barn, and I didn't see a description of any other facilities ;)


The Fall of Plaguestone - Current Map

Dragh thought she might be an orc: Could that be an orc...?!

And Tamli has always seemed like a woman to you all, the way "she" dresses, presents herself, her voice, general morphology (breasts, hips...)... but, who knows?

I imagine you chamber pots in the caravan (there is no "toilet caravan"), or do it outside, since you mostly are on the run.


Toilets are as old as humanity. People don't want their village to literally smells like s**t, also, excrements were used as fertilizers.
So, in a village like this one, there are a few huts in the backyards, and obviously the villagers want us to use their toilets as much as you would want strangers to use toilets nowadays. Toilets are rarely inside buildings because of the smell, unless you have water sinks (which are at least as old as 2500 years BC).

The issue people were having in the medieval times were with fast growing towns, as they needed sewer systems and not only toilets. And the problem with sewer system is not the technological level but the infrastructural cost (romans were having extremely sophisticated sewer systems, the first ones being as old as Mesopotamia).

If you want more information about toilets, you have Wikipedia.

So, yes, Tamli peeing outside toilets is as odd as it would be if she was doing it nowadays. Which doesn't mean that noone does it or that it's a proof of her being a man ;)


The Fall of Plaguestone - Current Map

This is Golarion, so who knows what people have.
They could have a guy in town with Burning Hands who cremates refuse.

In our world, you had populations with toilets, others that used pots so as not to waste this valuable fertilizer (and who sold their daily production), and others that moved around outside from place to place (still today, you have major areas with no toilets, and who do not use them when the Western aid workers install them - I can tell you about Bangladesh if you want!).


GM Wayfinder wrote:
(still today, you have major areas with no toilets, and who do not use them when the Western aid workers install them - I can tell you about Bangladesh if you want!).

The problem is rarely with toilets but with sewer system. In small communities, toilets are basic to create.

Anyway, unless you tell us there's a toilet wizard or that Plaguestone villagers take great proud of soiling their main place, I will continue to expect toilets in villages ;)


The Fall of Plaguestone - Current Map

In small communities, toilets are basic to create.
Except that if you do not use them, culturally, then people do not use them when created.
In rural Bangladesh, today, the rule is to "go" in a different place every time.
So they built latrines since they are obliged to if they want bank loans and financial aid, then they go once in them, and then back to moving around the rice paddies, but never in the same place.
Since that's what's always been done.


The Fall of Plaguestone - Current Map

Sense Motive is an action (thus not passive), so, if you want to see if people are lying, or keeping information from you or not, ask me for a Sense Motive roll (which is Secret, so I'll roll it).
I will not prompt you to so - unless you want to speed the investigation up, and wish for me to tell you when to try and see if someone is lying.


I must admit I'm sometimes lost when you ask me to translate my character's actions into game mechanics. I'm expecting you to tell me what I'm supposed to roll to represent the action I'm trying to perform.


The Fall of Plaguestone - Current Map

Well, tell me what you want to roll.

If you want to try to read if the person is being deceptive, then ask for a Sense Motive roll (which is Secret, so I will roll it for you).
If you want to roll Diplomacy (which is not Secret) then do so (but just specify which kind of roll it is: Make an Impression, Request etc.).

If you ask me: do I need to roll Sense Motive? What do you expect me to answer?
If I say no, then basically I am telling you there is no lie.
If I say yes, it's the opposite.

You asked if you "needed" a Diplomacy roll.
So I told you to roll one if you wanted, and to tell me what you were doing (Impression or Request).
If you want to insist, and try to make sure she does whatever you asked, then make your roll.
Otherwise, well, you asked her for something. Fine. You just ask, and then see what will happen (good or bad or neutral).
Or you can try to Request her, or take time and make an Impression, to see if that helps... or not.


Ok, maybe is it just me not being used to your way of handling things. I'll make my roll.


The Fall of Plaguestone - Current Map

Having defeated bees, and received honey cakes as loot... you all feel Heroic this morning!

All gain 1 more Hero Point (moving to 2 for most, back to 1 for some)


Exploration activity:

By default, you can consider I use Avoid Notice as basic exploration activity. It doesn't change anything to the current situation, but I'll try to avoid rolling Perception to Initiative as much as I can in the future ;)


The Fall of Plaguestone - Current Map

• @Giggett I will see when you can use this, because you have to move at 1/2 speed, which means everyone else has to move at 1/2 speed also to let you not be left behind

• If anyone else wants to have a default Exploration mode, say so


All exploration activities force you to move at half speed, so it doesn't change anything.
And I think it's meant for everyone to use exploration activities while exploring. It really simplifies the thing to know what everyone is doing when walking in the dungeon than to say at each and every room and corridor: I search the room, I cast detect magic, I search for traps...


The Fall of Plaguestone - Current Map
Quote:
All exploration activities force you to move at half speed, so it doesn't change anything.

No.

You move at half speed if you choose to do something specific, that makes you move at half speed.
Or you move at double speed if you choose that exploration mode.
Otherwise you move at normal speed if you choose nothing special during exploration.

So we'll see if people want to do something special in those moment.

In any case, this was not such a moment.


GM Wayfinder wrote:

In any case, this was not such a moment.

Exploration mode is your ally, as a DM. Without exploration mode, you are always interrupted by players telling you they do that or that. And when a trap sprung, you always have a player telling you he was looking for traps but you didn't give him time to say it.

Thanks to exploration mode, you no more have that. You can describe the rooms, what we find in here, the traps we find or not, because you no more need players input to get going. It's a very nice rule to fluidify the game.


The Fall of Plaguestone - Current Map

If you are aiming to Recall Knowledge about something specific, please tell me.

PF2 rules are a lot harder in this regard vs. PF1.

Normally you learn "one of its best-known attributes" on a success (more on a crit').

And then, if you want to learn more "the DC is higher for each attempt" (! Bleh)

No more "one thing per 5 above the DC"...


The Fall of Plaguestone - Current Map

Status:
Giggett - full health - got a Potency Crystal
Dragh Goldenoak - full health - got a Minor Healing Potion
Natsume Ren - 15/18 - +1 Longsword
Tamerius Archilus - 10/16 - got a Minor Healing Potion

That was a level 3 encounter, for 80 XP (it was a Weak Ghost Commoner).

Current total: 290 XP


The Fall of Plaguestone - Current Map

So, no one has a Healer's Kit, correct?

Tell me if Tamerius does any healing (no problem doing it before going to interrogate the waiter).


Human Cleric 1| HP 16/16 AC 14| F +3 R +4 W +9| Speed 25| Perception +7 | Focus 0/1

Tamerius has a healer kit

How much do we have healed during the night ?


Constitution bonus x level hps.

Anyway, the values the DM just gave us are the current ones.


The Fall of Plaguestone - Current Map

Then Tamerius should probably spend 10 minutes healing now and then, between leaving Sir Lawren's place, after this interrogation (if you survive!) etc..


The Fall of Plaguestone - Current Map

And just note at one moment who takes what items (Tamerius is giving the potion to Giggett, for example) and when you've crafted to change the rune.
I'll let you track that.


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I've already updated my inventory on my profile.


The Fall of Plaguestone - Current Map

In this case let us say that it will take a half a day to transfer the rune, with no cost.

For example, if you wish, Natsume can work on that in the afternoon, using the repair/crafting tools from one of the wagons - while Dragh is looking through the books.

You don't have money really for now, I don't want to block you for days, and it seems more RP than some mechanical benefit (the two weapons are pretty much equivalent) so you will see that this specific rune of Iomedae comes with a swift release latch, that you can easily undo and affix to another weapon.


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Female Human Fighter | HP 18/18 | 1 Hero Point | Perc’ +5 ; Stealth +5 ; Speed 20 ft. | AC 18 ; 20 w. Shield Raised | Fort' +7 ; Ref' +7 ; Will +3 | Active conditions:

How fancy! Sure, I'll have Natsume work on that this afternoon.


The Fall of Plaguestone - Current Map
Quote:
Not used to using swords, Giggett tries to twirl it like a flail... and misses.

Sorry, I meant Natsume!


The Fall of Plaguestone - Current Map

Okay, and sorry again, since I wrote Giggett instead of Natsume, I counted you as acting.


Can we find a way to handle rests? Because Tamerius and Dragh are still hurt from yesterday's fight. I think we got plenty of time to heal ourselves, it's just that we didn't take the time to roll dice.


Dragh is unscratched for the whole time. His skin is impeccable and clothing always clean. No monster would ever charge a dwarven Wizzard ;)

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