Weapon Enchantment Bow

I have seen it common that people enchant their bows with weapon +5 speed and holy. Why not corrosive and frost instead of holy?? I am new to dnd so i figure there must be a good reason why. My thought is that frost and corrosive will always be active, but would it commonly be negated by resistance?

Actually, Adaptive should be first.

By the time you have a bow of that level of enchantment many of your foes have Damage reduction/good and holy allows all of the weapon damage to bypass it whereas corrosive and frost wouldn't.

Speed on a bow is never worth it. Your better off getting boots of haste or having a party member cast it on you.

As for the bow, nowadays, adaptive is the first enhancement players put on their bows. From there it builds up into, typically... +5 adaptive impervious seeking, holy, merciful bow. If you use wisdom as our main stat or are a zen archer, you add guide if you can. If not called, is not too bad.

Seeking overlaps partially with imp. Precise shot, but it's needed. Merciful in case you don't want to kill enemies, holy as mentioned is for damage reduction primarily at mid levels, but also to get the extra 2d6 vs. most enemies you face vs some.

Speed on a bow is never worth it. Your better off getti boots of haste or having a party member cast it on you.

As for the bow, nowadays, adaptive is the first enhancement players put on their bows. From there it builds up into, typically... +5 adaptive impervious seeking, holy, merciful bow. If you use wisdom as our main stat or are a zen archer, you add guide if you can. If not called, is not too bad.

Seeking overlaps partially with imp. Precise shot, but it's needed. Merciful in case you don't want to kill enemies, holy as mentioned is for damage reduction primarily at mid levels, but also to get the extra 2d6 vs. most enemies you face vs some.

Ok, that helps a lot i didn't even know about boots of haste :)

What is guide?? Hard to look that up.

What is guide?? Hard to look that up.

Guided Weapon Property

Sorry, it's guided. Found here.

It essentially allows you to use wisdom whenever you would use str for the attack roll. Now based on that and adaptive it might be possible to have a zen archer or any other class that primarily uses wisdom to have their bow get their wisdom odiferous to their damage. As for their attack, since it uses dex, based on the RAW, read as written, it can't replace the Dex->Wis. zen archers use their wisdom for their attack with the bow, so it's very beneficial for them. It makes them less MAD. Also, due to the wording of adaptive. It might be possible to have the adaptive ability be linked to the guided ability. In this case, you can have a low Str score and just use your increasing wisdom score do all the work.

Now, since the +5 bow has +4 enhancements on it seeking, holy, merciful. The question typically lismwith the lat +1. Like I said, if using wisdom to do damage, and not str, then guided will be better for you. if using str, like normal for the damage component withy the composite adaptive bow, then your choices are good with: either an energy damage type, corrosive typically is better than frost, the called enhancement, or bane. Now, as for bane I'd rather just bane arrows and use those but if your a class that gets access to a favored enemy type feature like ranger. The ranger will have their favored enemy bonuses so why not add more damage to that? Many put the energy type, but I don't really care that much for the extra d6, even if doing 6-8 attacks. Thys 6d6 damage, on avg. 21 points of damage. And considering that small amount, if all attacks hit, won't go through DR. It, in my mind isn't a huge bonus when you can get something else to help you out that isn't damage. Any good archer is getting +15 damage at minimum. If you do low damage, the energy damage is worth it, if you do a lot, like fighters, zen archers, sohei, and many times rangers, then get something else for the +1.

Are you playing an archer character currently? Or will be?

level 3 ranger

Damn. Totally forgot, distance. The distance enhancement is probably the better use for the +1 at the end of the merciful, holy, seeking. If you're outdoors more, it's better. If not, and indoors, or underground more, then not so much.

Then you might be better off with either bane or the energy damage. If you plan on going to mid to high levels and get enough gold, bane arrows are better for you, as are energy arrows. Really up to you. Right now though get adaptive out on it first. It's oly 1,000 gp and is the best enhancement paizo has ever made for bow users. After that seeking is best to get. The straight +'s are typically always better than the other enchantments first, but balance them out as you go up. Like a +3 seeking is better than a +4 for instance.

Distance is for suckers. You will never use it. If you ever start a fight from over 110' away, you still win.

Damn. Totally forgot, distance. The distance enhancement is probably the better use for the +1 at the end of the merciful, holy, seeking. If you're outdoors more, it's better. If not, and indoors, or underground more, then not so much.

Then you might be better off with either bane or the energy damage. If you plan on going to mid to high levels and get enough gold, bane arrows are better for you, as are energy arrows. Really up to you. Right now though get adaptive out on it first. It's oly 1,000 gp and is the best enhancement paizo has ever made for bow users. After that seeking is best to get. The straight +'s are typically always better than the other enchantments first, but balance them out as you go up. Like a +3 seeking is better than a +4 for instance.

Only played 6 scenarios but range has never been even close to a problem, i dont think i have ever shot half my max. I have adaptive +1 at the moment and i think ill grab another +1 then get seeking.

Does critting with merciful do anything special?

If I ever use distance it's because of the penalties I'd be receiving at 115'ft, 225', 335'... So on. Perception skill allows without modifier changers, you to see at a +1 mod/ 10 ft. Any good archer is gonna be able to see at least 250' away. If I ever wanted to attack that enemy that far away, I'm taking a -6 penalty. If it were a distance bow, it's only a -2.

Still for the last +1 the choices are as usual, normally name, energy damage, distance, or even called. However, bane and energy can be put on arrows. So then the choice is between called, and distance. For me, distance wins out many more times than called. Because there will be fewer times for me to need to call my weapon to me within 100', vs. getting less penalties on long shots. Besides, gloves of storing resolve the necessity for closeness with your weapon. Now it's in the palm of your hand.

Merciful critting will only do the crit damage but in non-lethal damage form. Nothing different.

If I ever use distance it's because of the penalties I'd be receiving at 115'ft, 225', 335'... So on. Perception skill allows without modifier changers, you to see at a +1 mod/ 10 ft. Any good archer is gonna be able to see at least 250' away. If I ever wanted to attack that enemy that far away, I'm taking a -6 penalty. If it were a distance bow, it's only a -2.

Still for the last +1 the choices are as usual, normally name, energy damage, distance, or even called. However, bane and energy can be put on arrows. So then the choice is between called, and distance. For me, distance wins out many more times than called. Because there will be fewer times for me to need to call my weapon to me within 100', vs. getting less penalties on long shots. Besides, gloves of storing resolve the necessity for closeness with your weapon. Now it's in the palm of your hand.

Merciful critting will only do the crit damage but in non-lethal damage form. Nothing different.

Does dealing non-lethal damage with merciful ever become a problem?

Since you can turn off the merciful enchantment at any time it's not really an issue.

Asta
PSY

Problem how? If your doing too much non lethal it converts to lethal. If that's the problem, stop attacking I guess. Otherwise, no issues.

Keep in mind that some of these enchantments are not core and some GMs might not allow them.

Distance is great for daggers. Never seen any need for it for bows.

Holy is great if you are in a campaign where you are the good heroes fighting evil. If you aren't the good hero, or if you find yourself fighting a lot of neutral enemies (which a lot of GMs will throw at a holy weapon) it's not so great.

I believe the boots are actually called "boots of speed" not "haste". And neither they nor the "speed" enhancement on a weapon stacks with "haste" cast by a party member, so they may be of limited use. I like the boots myself though.

For DR you can get the clustered shots feat, and for most dedicated archers, you will anyway.

So, in the end, what you choose to enchant your bow with does not actually need to conform to the "standard, generic, messageboard approved, optimized archer build."

You can actually use them to flavor your archer too.

I prefer bbq sauce to flavor my archers.

note that any creature with fast healing or regeneration negates all merciful damage if it heals even 1 hit point. Merciful is useful up until it's useless. However, the option not to kill something is a good option for non-Evil characters to have at any time.

==Aelryinth

note that any creature with fast healing or regeneration negates all merciful damage if it heals even 1 hit point. Merciful is useful up until it's useless. However, the option not to kill something is a good option for non-Evil characters to have at any time.

==Aelryinth

That is the scenario i was thinking of, all though i have yet to see anything like that because i am a noob :D!

When you are enchanting your bow you want to stick with enchantments you will almost always find useful. Situational enchantments should be placed on the arrows not the bow. Elemental damage is best used on the arrows because many creatures may have resistance or immunity. The ability to target a creatures weakness is very helpful.

The most useful enchantment on a bow is going to be the adaptive after that just a straight bonus. Others that may prove worthwhile for a bow would be seeking, endless ammunition. Merciful is another one I can see using on the bow just to give you the ability to capture something instead of killing it. Impervious is also something that can be helpful especially since it is a straight cost and does not have to use a enchantment bonus. The usefulness of anything besides adaptive and the straight bonus is going to depend on your build.

How many GMs allow "adaptive", I wonder?

I showed it to my GM and wanted it for my druid's bow and he just snickered and said "what a cheesed up enchantment."

No dice.

How many GMs allow "adaptive", I wonder?

I showed it to my GM and wanted it for my druid's bow and he just snickered and said "what a cheesed up enchantment."

No dice.

All four of the DMs that I, more or less, game with all the time allow it.

That sounds like a very, um, unpleasant DM.

Did he give further explanation?

note that any creature with fast healing or regeneration negates all merciful damage if it heals even 1 hit point. Merciful is useful up until it's useless. However, the option not to kill something is a good option for non-Evil characters to have at any time.

==Aelryinth

I'm not sure I follow. When you get healed (via spell or monster ability) you also heal a like amount of nonlethal damage. That's hardly negating "all merciful damage."

Or did I miss something?

No lethal heals as same rate as normal damage. You don't just reset your non lethal damage to 0 when you gain healing, even if 1 point. It's equal amount for both.

There are gloves that give your weapon the corrosive enchantment so unless you're a class that benefits from gloves of duelling I'd take those over actually enchanting the bow with corrosive.
Plus it works for melee weapons or unarmed strikes, too.

How many GMs allow "adaptive", I wonder?

I showed it to my GM and wanted it for my druid's bow and he just snickered and said "what a cheesed up enchantment."

No dice.

Seriously? How is it cheesed up in any way or form? It simply allows you to use a few temporary buff spells better and prevents the GM from benefitting too much from hitting you with a Ray of Enfeeblement.

If you wanted "cheesed up", I would go with Seeking.

What's cheesy about Seeking? I've never once seen it taken.

Magnus and BBT, there is some history here...

My druid has str 10, so has never had a compound bow. However, she uses "Bull's Strength" on occasion to boost her strength and there are other ways to boost strength.

I had previously tried to work out a custom bow type which allowed str adjustments to be applied more or less exactly like the "adaptive" ability. At that time he felt I was trying to "game" the system to gain an advantage by having a single bow that could be "str adjusted" or not as I wanted.

So when adaptive was introduced, I think he just defaulted back to his previous position, which was that the bow as not RAW.

Had I never tried to introduce the same ability, when it came from Paizo, I think it wouldn't have been a problem. Just because I had already pushed for this, I think that "poisoned the well".

It's only a minor damage boost, so I think you are right there. If you'd cheese the strength gain by playing a Strength domain cleric with Righteous Might, I'd kinda see his point. ;)

It's only a minor damage boost, so I think you are right there. If you'd cheese the strength gain by playing a Strength domain cleric with Righteous Might, I'd kinda see his point. ;)

I didn't press the issue, I honestly felt like I was sorta cheesing the system just looking for a bow that I could use with no str adjustment AND gain the +2 from Bull's Strength, so I was somewhat surprised to see "Adaptive" pop up when it came out.

Do I think it's cheesy? For certain builds, yeah it could be.

But to let my druid benefit from Bull's Strength? Well, if I hadn't felt it was balanced, I wouldn't have created the custom attribute in the first place.

I think the reason he objected is because my druid was already the most dominant character in the party, and this would have given her a +2 on every hit with a full attack, meaning potentially four arrows per round.

I saw his point.

But my response was to UMD a "gravity bow" wand anyway. :) (Now, of course, with "Adaptive" I could get both bonuses...)

By the time you have a bow of that level of enchantment many of your foes have Damage reduction/good and holy allows all of the weapon damage to bypass it whereas corrosive and frost wouldn't.

But a +5 bow bypasses DR/good automatically, doesn't it?

There are gloves that give your weapon the corrosive enchantment so unless you're a class that benefits from gloves of duelling I'd take those over actually enchanting the bow with corrosive.

Plus it works for melee weapons or unarmed strikes, too.

Are you referring to Deliquescent Gloves?? If so it looks like its only melee. :(

Umbranus wrote:

There are gloves that give your weapon the corrosive enchantment so unless you're a class that benefits from gloves of duelling I'd take those over actually enchanting the bow with corrosive.

Plus it works for melee weapons or unarmed strikes, too.

Are you referring to Deliquescent Gloves?? If so it looks like its only melee. :(

The wearer’s melee touch attacks with that hand deal 1d6 points of acid damage. If the wearer uses that hand to wield a weapon or make an attack with an unarmed strike or natural weapon, that attack gains the corrosive weapon special ability.

Deliquescent Gloves work just as well with ranged weapons as melee weapons. :)

Umbranus wrote:

There are gloves that give your weapon the corrosive enchantment so unless you're a class that benefits from gloves of duelling I'd take those over actually enchanting the bow with corrosive.

Plus it works for melee weapons or unarmed strikes, too.

Are you referring to Deliquescent Gloves?? If so it looks like its only melee. :(

aaa ok good

One thing to consider as well, from an optimization standpoint +1 hit and damage yields more DPR than 1d6 Elemental.

One thing to consider as well, from an optimization standpoint +1 hit and damage yields more DPR than 1d6 Elemental.

There are multiple threads where this has been disproven.

There are very specific, extra-high damage builds where this is true, but you have to get your damage bonus in the range of +20 or so.

There are times this is a better approach to deal with DR as well.

But for many, many builds of average damage the elemental is better. As has been demonstrated. Multiple times.

I can easily see getting to +20 by level 16, assuming you can afford it. Do you ever receive more than 7k per scenario? 7k seemed to be the max that i could find on like level 10-11 scenarios.

Depending on the exact situation, distance is that same as a +2 or more to hit. I was in a campaign with Airships, and lots of siege battles. The distance enchant usually negated -4 to -6 worth of penalties in a lot of those fights. YMMV.

As for DR, I have found that DR is usually a non-issue as an archer.
Efficient quiver + a mix of silver, holy, adamantium, cold iron, and bane arrows means I never enchant my bow for damage reduction. I usually focus on straight enhancement bonuses for my bow. Adaptive is the only must have.

Speed is only in the very rare situation where you end up without a haste caster in the party. If you have a haste caster in the party, get boots of speed as a gap filler. Without someone who can cast haste for a combat or 2 I find that boots of speed are sometimes not enough to get through an adventuring day.

Seeking, Holy, Bane, etc are all situational enchants. As such I usually put them on ammunition that I can swap to when the situation arises. Also, making non magical admantium, silver, and cold iron arrows is relatively cheap.

General purpose enchants on bow + situational enchants on arrows.

For me I'd put the distance enchant on if like chareneder and others have said, that there will be lots of distance between you and your enemies. In a future campaign I plan to create, the party will be pirates, and on ships a lot. Boats being within a few hundred feet of each other is common for fighting. Plucking away at the enemy ships as they come around the bend almost 1/2 a mile away= priceless.

DRcan be a slight problem at higher levels if you don't have your +5 bow yet. Mixed DR, like DR 10/good and silver. Other than that, flat DR, with a -, will be a bit harder. Clustered shots feat helps with this, but not necessary all the time.

Seeking, Holy, Bane, etc are all situational enchants. As such I usually put them on ammunition that I can swap to when the situation arises. Also, making non magical admantium, silver, and cold iron arrows is relatively cheap.

General purpose enchants on bow + situational enchants on arrows.

What do cold iron arrows do and how much are they?

What do cold iron arrows do and how much are they?

Bypass DR/cold iron; adding cold iron costs as much as buying another mundane arrow.

Cold iron costs double the price of normal arrows, so if for 1gp you get 20 arrows, the cold iron is 2gp for 20.

MrJello wrote:

What do cold iron arrows do and how much are they?

Bypass DR/cold iron; adding cold iron costs as much as buying another mundane arrow.

where does it say it bypasses DR?

Bearded Ben wrote:

MrJello wrote:

What do cold iron arrows do and how much are they?

Bypass DR/cold iron; adding cold iron costs as much as buying another mundane arrow.

where does it say it bypasses DR?

You know how DR works, right?

If it lists DR/Cold Iron, then a Cold Iron weapon(this includes ammunition) bypasses it.

In simulationist games, I actually often see people take the distance enchantment, and even the far shot feat. This is because the nature of such games frequently allow encounters to start at a realistic distance---which often substantially exceeds 500 yards, which is effective engagement distance right now for skilled riflemen (not specialized snipers, just guys with battle rifles). It's also handy to be able to outrange opponents who like to use the fly overhead out of your range and pound you with long range attacks manuever.

Distance & Far Shot see a lot of use in my games. Though I like open battlefields & the need for tactics.

One reason why I get annoyed by my Rogue(Scout Sniper) & Fighter(Archer) players. They can negate everything I typically try to throw at them.

Second Chance can be effective if you are say an Archer Wizard or Magus(Myrmidarch).

MrJello wrote:

Bearded Ben wrote:

MrJello wrote:

What do cold iron arrows do and how much are they?

Bypass DR/cold iron; adding cold iron costs as much as buying another mundane arrow.

where does it say it bypasses DR?

You know how DR works, right?

If it lists DR/Cold Iron, then a Cold Iron weapon(this includes ammunition) bypasses it.

Only been doing DnD for a month, but i assume now that it says it on the monster stats because i could not find it on the material stats.

Only been doing DnD for a month, but i assume now that it says it on the monster stats because i could not find it on the material stats.

D&D? THIS. IS. PATHFINDER! *chestkick* :-)

More seriously, various critters have damage reduction from different things. Silver, adamantine, cold iron, glass. etc. It's in the 'monster books' because it defeats the fun if in the materials section it says "This bypasses DR on monsters X, Y, and Z."

It is cheaper to have a 'golfbag full of arrows' vs a golfbag full of weapons.

You might want to check the weapon blanches too. Most are far cheaper than having arrows of the special material.

And one of the blanches allows your arrows to get the Ghost-touch property that you cannot get otherwise for a projectile weapon.