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Johann the bear is large, so I hope you can dig out a large mini, MJ!
My speed is 40, I have perception of 10, and a climb speed, so I am happy to pursue your assassins through Rome!

Arc Perdu le Rouge |

Trying to figure out how the rules for invisibility, Blind-Fight, and AoOs interact, but I'm not seeing anything that would let me get a hit on the ninja as he leaves my threatened squares.

Michael Johnson 66 |

Trying to figure out how the rules for invisibility, Blind-Fight, and AoOs interact, but I'm not seeing anything that would let me get a hit on the ninja as he leaves my threatened squares.
Yes, I believe invisible opponents do not provoke AoO even from characters with Blind-Fight...

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Hmmm... don't know how well Johann is going to track this guy, with all of this CHEATING going on with heavenly beings. I will try to stay as close as I can and hope that his invisibility wears off.

Sun Wukong, The Monkey King |

Hmmm... don't know how well Johann is going to track this guy, with all of this CHEATING going on with heavenly beings. I will try to stay as close as I can and hope that his invisibility wears off.
Lol! Monkey King wants to stack the deck a little too... It makes the Game of Mortals far more interesting to throw a “monkey wrench” into the mix once in a while...

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Johann Kaltgeboren wrote:Hmmm... don't know how well Johann is going to track this guy, with all of this CHEATING going on with heavenly beings. I will try to stay as close as I can and hope that his invisibility wears off.Lol! Monkey King wants to stack the deck a little too... It makes the Game of Mortals far more interesting to throw a “monkey wrench” into the mix once in a while...
He needs a bigger wrench to stop THE BEAR!

Toshio Okumura |

I'm thinking about taking Improved Familiar for 5th level. I'm taking suggestions, but top choices for me seem to be the small elemental or adding the fey-touched template to the animal (which comes with a change shape ability).
The small earth elemental is a pretty hardy little guy that could participate in combat. Air elemental has same AC (more Dex, less natural), isn't as strong on its melee attacks, but has an awesome flight speed and so retains the flying scout potential of the thrush. Lightning elemental is more thematic than either but has significantly lower AC which pretty much takes combat out of the options (although it is particularly good at landing a hit on anything that has metal, even just a held weapon), and it has the same flight as the air elemental.
Then there's that fey-touched animal option. No better at combat than the thrush (though DR/cold iron is nice), but it gets one humanoid form just like the kitsune (but doesn't have to be specifically human; any small or medium humanoid). That could prove very useful in certain non-combat situations, I imagine. Remember that the familiar shares all of my skill ranks...

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Loot gained:
potion of cure serious wounds,
+1leather,
a telescopic +1 shortspear named Paisonpenisu,
a mwk short sword (wakizashi),
an amulet of natural armor +1 shaped like a tiny turtle shell on a leather cord,
a cloak of resistance +1,
a ring of protection +1,
236 gold pieces total divided by 7 = 33 each.
I would like the ring of protection + 1 if possible, I really need to get my AC higher.
Level 5: Wow, that was quick. I'm planning on a level of monk (tetori) to get improved grapple, and as a feat I am taking improved natural attack bite to put that base damage at 2d6.

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help on multiclassing: I haven't done it in ages. An unchained monk at level 1 gets a BAB+1, fortitude save +2 and a reflex save +2. If I take this multiclass level, do I get these immediate bumps?
(The saves are quite a bit better than just going straight shifter).

Michael Johnson 66 |

help on multiclassing: I haven't done it in ages. An unchained monk at level 1 gets a BAB+1, fortitude save +2 and a reflex save +2. If I take this multiclass level, do I get these immediate bumps?
(The saves are quite a bit better than just going straight shifter).
Yes

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Personally I always enforce fractional saves and BAB but the GM says so, so celebrate! :)

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Yup, this is a hard core RAW game.
You dont define Pathfinder Unchained as RAW then?

Zagathoth |

Michael Johnson 66 wrote:Yup, this is a hard core RAW game.You dont define Pathfinder Unchained as RAW then?
Uhh... variant multi-classing is allowed, so we must be using Unchained... (which does mean fractional bonuses are fair game)
@Johann- remember, unchained monks can only take archetypes if they specifically say they can be used be either (unless there's an errata I don't know about, you can't make an unchained tetori).
@Fox- I'm not sure how you're changing alignment works with improved familiars, but the faerie dragon is a really nice option that might fit with your fox persona at least?
Zagathoth should be all leveled up. Nothing flashy this level- took iron will for my feat and combat expertise for my bonus feat (just for all the options it opens for martial flexibility). I agree with giving either the ring or the necklace to Johann, and I would love to have the other for myself, if everyone's ok with that?

Michael Johnson 66 |

Michael Johnson 66 wrote:Yup, this is a hard core RAW game.You dont define Pathfinder Unchained as RAW then?
Yes, let’s go with the Unchained rules then and use fractional bonuses. My bad. On reviewing, it’s clearly more balanced that way.

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So I'm taking unchained monk and no archetype (doesn't gain me anything anyway).
BAB is still a +1, HP stays even at d10, but I don't understand fractional saves. If anyone can just tell me what a shifter 4 turning to a shifter 4/monk 1 gets, I would appreciate it.

Zagathoth |

Shifters and unchained monks have the same good saves, so basically (unless you add another class) your saves will stay equal to a shifter of your character level. (+4 +4 +1 now and +5 +5 +2 next level, regardless of whether you go shifter 5/monk 1 or shifter 4/monk 2)
Also, are you sure you wouldn't benefit more from a level of something else? Your specific build seems ill-suited for a monk level... you can't flurry with natural attacks so that's wasted, you're not going to use unarmed damage because of your natural attacks so that's wasted, the monk AC bonus won't stack with the shifter one so that's wasted...

Toshio Okumura |

Cardinal Lucius d'Borja wrote:Yes, let’s go with the Unchained rules then and use fractional bonuses. My bad. On reviewing, it’s clearly more balanced that way.Michael Johnson 66 wrote:Yup, this is a hard core RAW game.You dont define Pathfinder Unchained as RAW then?
It will mean less of a crazy boost to Johann's saves, but it will also make Boga's BAB a little better since that (chained) monk level he took will add 3/4 just like his cleric levels do to his BAB.

Toshio Okumura |

Also, are you sure you wouldn't benefit more from a level of something else? Your specific build seems ill-suited for a monk level... you can't flurry with natural attacks so that's wasted, you're not going to use unarmed damage because of your natural attacks so that's wasted, the monk AC bonus won't stack with the shifter one so that's wasted...
Those are good points...maybe you should compare it against fighter, barbarian, and slayer as alternatives.

Toshio Okumura |

@Fox- I'm not sure how you're changing alignment works with improved familiars, but the faerie dragon is a really nice option that might fit with your fox persona at least?
The faerie dragon isn't available until 7th level.
Something else I was considering was dipping fighter to add a bonus combat feat in addition to my 5th level feat and spending them on Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot (and my BAB would go up again; it doesn't go up at vigilante level 5). All the weapon and armor proficiencies would be wasted on me, though.
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Yeah... that is all true. I guess what a single level of monk does give me is improved unarmed attack and improved grapple, which opens the way for greater grapple and body shield, and maybe feral combat training which then opens up flurry of blows with claws.
If I don't take monk I will never get improved grapple. I am a grappling beast as a bear. Right now I am +17.
But I am open to other ideas if someone has a good one.

Zagathoth |

Hmmm... a ranger or slayer can take improved grapple without needing IUS through the unarmed combat style but that would be a 2 level dip instead of one (though you would gain either favored enemy or studied target)... or, at first level a fighter with the ‘unarmed’ archetype gets IUS as a bonus feat plus a style feat (that they can ignore the requirements for)- you’d have to spend a feat on improved grapple still but kraken style would be kind of awesome if you’re going to grapple a lot, or grabbing style is good too; it wouldn’t be as good for your saves (or skills) but it really might be worth it?
Also, if you decide to head towards feral combat training you should really do it for your bite... the feat let’s you use the natural attack as an unarmed strike, so you have to completely follow those rules- that means you have to give up your normal natural attack routine and instead make one attack with chosen natural attack at your highest BAB, then any iterative attacks you’re entitled too (plus a flurry attack if/when applicable)... since you don’t gain any extra attack in that attack progression for having 2 claws, you’re better off picking your highest damage attack.
edit: I forgot you have 16 Wis too... actually, that’s 18 if you’re not in human form, right? The more I think about it the more I think unarmed fighter would be the way to go... take kraken style and spend your feat on improved grapple instead of improved natural attack- you’ll be at +21 to grapple and the 4 damage you deal on every successful grapple check is probably going to work out to more damage than increasing your average bite damage by 2.5

Quinlan Ifrean |

LEVEL 5
+8 hp
new language: Spanish
new feats: Spell penetration, craft wondrous items (bonus)
new spells: fly, haste
new exploit: quick study
Seeing as Toshio probably has to recover anyways Quinlan will make himself a headband of vast intelligence in the next few days.

Zagathoth |

@Quinlan- in character Zag would never think to offer this, but (ooc) I would be glad to pay for a scroll of enlarge person if you want to learn it and have it prepared some of the time? Johann won’t be able to stack it with bear form, but I certainly wouldn’t complain about becoming large once in a while...

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@Zag-- wow, kraken style is pretty cool. I could also do the same thing by going monk. Unarmed strike, improved grapple, and kraken style. Kraken style can be taken as a normal feat, right? And I meet the prerequisites.
I'm not sure how going fighter or kraken sytle would get my grapple up another +4 to +21. It looks like it only gives a +2 to maintain the grapple.

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Quinlan, could you make me a headband of wisdom +2? I have the 2000 gold.

Arc Perdu le Rouge |

Grabbed Blinded Blade Style for the off-chance we find ourselves in supernatural darkness (or with no light sources for some reason), as well as Power Attack for a consistent damage boost.
Not much else is new here, though I'm having to reconsider my 2nd-level spell choice for this level.

Zagathoth |

I'm not sure how going fighter or kraken sytle would get my grapple up another +4 to +21. It looks like it only gives a +2 to maintain the grapple.
I assumed that your +17 wasn't counting Improved Grapple... if you already counted that then it would only be another +2 up to +19 (sorry). Also, lol, I forgot that we're 5th level and you could just meet all the requirements for kraken style normally; I guess fighter isn't really getting you much useful stuff beyond what a level of monk would unless you wanted grabbing style instead...

Quinlan Ifrean |

How do we want to split the treasure from the assassin?
My suggestions
potion of cure serious wounds - whoever has the fewest potions currently
+1 leather - sell
a telescopic +1 shortspear named Paisonpenisu, - sell
a mwk short sword (wakizashi), - sell
an amulet of natural armor +1 shaped like a tiny turtle shell on a leather cord, - zagathoth
a cloak of resistance +1, - Quinlan (I think I have the worst saves)
a ring of protection +1, - Johann
unless anyone is interested in the armor/weapons.

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Thanks for all the info, Zag. I'm going monk with Kraken style,and will save improved natural attack for another day (and have plans to tie that in with vital strike!)
Ready to proceed back down to the catacombs and hope my body can fit.

Michael Johnson 66 |

Thanks for all the info, Zag. I'm going monk with Kraken style,and will save improved natural attack for another day (and have plans to tie that in with vital strike!)
Ready to proceed back down to the catacombs and hope my body can fit.
Are you Large or Huge in dire bear form?

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Large. So far, that would fit, but it also fills up the corridor.