About the kids - I think Cueta would see things like Vallen does, which raises an interesting ethical situation.
1) kill them - probably an evil act in Cueta's book. Actually it definitely is - in her backstory I put a line about how she hates cruel people, slavers, and harmers of children.
2) Leave them. Is this a cop-out? Is it basically a death sentence?
3) Take them and try to re-educate them. I think Cueta would prefer this, but I don't know that Newspring goes for it?
No Kuru are returning to newspring.
Oh man, I always step away right when the good stuff happens.
Gair's northern sensibilities would have him leaning towards leaving them on the mainland to fend for themselves. Their chances aren't great but it's not a definite death sentence. The strong among them will survive and they will carry on.
Of course if they prove to be near feral as I kind of fear well then they're kind of making their own bed and sadly enough it's the ocean bed.
I can tell you with near certainty that Newspring won't go for taking them in. Not with the Harpy survivors making up a sizable portion of our numbers.
On the subject of crafting, it's important to note that a failed roll on the daily checks only costs you 1/10th of the item's material cost so it's less devastating than badly failing the weekly rolls.
Taking 10 on crafting absolutely possible. As for daily v weekly checks, what Gair said.
Awesome! Thanks, Nerk and Gair! Also, how much does a masterwork canoe cost? A plain old rowboat is 50gp - I think we decided that a plain old canoe would run the same? I want a craft that can be taken out singly and fit the party if needed (so minimum crew of 1, maximum crew of 5) and that gives +2 to prof (sailor) checks. Alteratively, if that seems unrealistic, I could build two three-person masterwork canoes (minimum crew of 1, maximum of 3).
We had discussed being able to use craft (carpentry) for simple craft as well. I plan on taking boat-building at some point. Would I use craft (shipbuilding) to build masterwork shipbuilding tools?
Everyone, I've currently got my last skill-point in craft (weapons). Is this redundant with Horn'Tos and Vallen having it? Three people can use the forge (once completed) at a time, but I'll be exploring and foraging for a long time to come, I'd think. Is anyone planning on taking the craft magic weapons and armor feat? If not, I could take the master craftsman feat (or whatever it is called - the one that allows martials to craft weapons) at level 5.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
OK....
There is absolutely no way you can build a Masterwork boat without having the Craft: Ships skill. Now you've got me thinking about it (see what you did?) any ship/boat you built with carpentry would probably have the fragile condition, as you don't really know squat about building boats so much as woodworking generally. Not a big issue except when the kraken attacks. Oops, should I have spoilered that? Ditto with your longspear.
A canoe is a tricky beast. A canoe big enough to carry 5 is not going to be manageable by 1, paddled. For simplicity's sake, any canoe under muscle power needs at least half of it's maximum crew paddling or it will be moving at half speed, halved again if it's got more than half its load. Outrigger canoes frequently have masts and sails, which would allow an individual to sail it just fine, weather permitting.
Most of the tools you're looking at are made of metal, so would be built by blacksmiths. Masterwork Artisan's tools cost 55gp, so there's that. I would say that a masterwork boat/ship triples the cost of the base item, so 150gp for a MW canoe/rowboat. 75,000 for a MW warship.
I think Cueta could definitely use some Craft (shipbuilding), that is right up her alley. Vallen and Horn'tos have got the forging covered (Working metal is literally a form of worship of their god after all). 76.47% chance Vallen will be taking the Master Craftsman feat, and putting it to good use making us magical items.
Though... what if you had Master Craftsman and Craft (shipbuilding)... Magical canoes anyone?
Nerk has pointed out that the young kuru will attack if we go down below. Vallen will defend himself, and deem them monsters if their children attack instead of flee.
If they tried to run away that would be a different story, but in this case I can justify Vallen not making a fuss about exterminating their population. He won't participate unless forced to, but he's not going to stop anyone.
So there are no other adult Kuru?
I say we check out the tower, if I was in charge that is where I would be.
I want to check out the gate- see if it's still functional (probably not)/see if it can be repaired, then we ascend the tower. I fear we may find their religious leader at the top, an acolyte of Dagon?
I think Cueta could definitely use some Craft (shipbuilding), that is right up her alley. Vallen and Horn'tos have got the forging covered (Working metal is literally a form of worship of their god after all). 76.47% chance Vallen will be taking the Master Craftsman feat, and putting it to good use making us magical items.
Though... what if you had Master Craftsman and Craft (shipbuilding)... Magical canoes anyone?
Great - I'll move that skillpoint over to craft (ships)! Can you make me a masterwork weapon down the line? I'll make you a dwarven war galley way, way down the line...
As for where we head next, I'll follow the lead of the really enthusiastic shorties. Cueta's largely accomplished what she hopes to do, except for the location of prisoners and figures we'll run into any prisoners at some point, if there are any, in our explorations.
Just so I'm understanding all this dwarven mumbo jumbo - the 9-headed hydra represents demons that the dwarves have long fought, presumably from some dude(tte) named Dagon, who our dwarves suspect has a priest camped out in the tower?
Fully leveled then:
9 hps, 9 sps
feats: furious focus, shield of swings (R2)
skills: craft (ships), dip (2), intimidate, perception (2), prof (sailor), stealth, survival
OK....
There is absolutely no way you can build a Masterwork boat without having the Craft: Ships skill. Now you've got me thinking about it (see what you did?) any ship/boat you built with carpentry would probably have the fragile condition, as you don't really know squat about building boats so much as woodworking generally. Not a big issue except when the kraken attacks. Oops, should I have spoilered that? Ditto with your longspear.
A canoe is a tricky beast. A canoe big enough to carry 5 is not going to be manageable by 1, paddled. For simplicity's sake, any canoe under muscle power needs at least half of it's maximum crew paddling or it will be moving at half speed, halved again if it's got more than half its load. Outrigger canoes frequently have masts and sails, which would allow an individual to sail it just fine, weather permitting.
Most of the tools you're looking at are made of metal, so would be built by blacksmiths. Masterwork Artisan's tools cost 55gp, so there's that. I would say that a masterwork boat/ship triples the cost of the base item, so 150gp for a MW canoe/rowboat. 75,000 for a MW warship.
Great - thank you, DM Nerk. One last multi-part question (I promise): what is the build DC of an outrigger canoe? How about a ship? And, if we can ever figure out some sort of locomotion, something like a steamboat?
Probably I'll have to bring in a really good shipbuilder for the last two - I can't see Cueta retiring to be a boat builder. Expert with 15 int, class skill craft ships (and 6 ranks), skill focus (craft ships) and mw tools would have a mod of +16 and there's probably like 3 of those people in all of Golarian - what would one of those guys cost?
OK, that was two questions - sorry!
Of course I can put you together a weapon, we'll probably be making a lot of arms and armor in the coming days. Kal'tos and Vallen need to go on a little dwarf adventure when we get back to Newspring and find a small source of iron though, so Kal'tos can use profession (miner) to gather us up some raw materials. Or we melt down the extra swords we found.
You could put together a craftspeople team of Shipwrights, managed by a Master Craftsman shipbuilder. Of course, it's finding those people, as you said.
Vallen is just speaking his mind- All we know right now is that the Nine-headed dragon in the dwarf relief represents a demon, and that demon is probably Damon, a very ancient and powerful sea demon.
I suspect the kuru worship Damon, and we're going to find one of Damon's acolytes- the "her" mentioned by our captive kuru. Next level I should pick up Knowledge: planes for these situations!
What other campaign would profession (miner) actually become useful?
Also this is the first campaign where I feel bad for "only" having 11 skills.
What other campaign would profession (miner) actually become useful?
Also this is the first campaign where I feel bad for "only" having 11 skills.
I hear ya! It was really difficult for me to pass up the skillful feat this past level.
you've already used prof (miner) once as I recall. Looking forward to seeing what else you do with it!
What other campaign would profession (miner) actually become useful?
Also this is the first campaign where I feel bad for "only" having 11 skills.
Indeed- Nerk has created a unique, challenging, and exciting campaign! We've been playing for a while now and this is our first "dungeon" so to speak. I'm glad it's a dwarf one.
Indeed, so far this campaign has been unique and incredibly immersive.
On the subject of the Kuru children. If they charge and attack us, Gair is most likely to try scaring them off but failing that he will cut down those who charge him.
We should take a look around the houses first, or what's left of them, then head up the tower. They have to have some food around- hopefully it's not... people...
We've been playing for a while now and this is our first "dungeon" so to speak. I'm glad it's a dwarf one.
Huh. You're right. I think it speaks to Nerk's skills that I haven't even thought of where we are as a dungeon at all. And I'm also glad it is a dwarf one - and that it has a pier and places for ships!
We should take a look around the houses first, or what's left of them, then head up the tower. They have to have some food around- hopefully it's not... people...
I agree.
On the subject of children, Cueta understands the reality that they can't be taken back, and while she won't attack them, she won't stand in the way either.
What will she do if they try to attack her specifically?
If there is a priest of shaman of some sort in the tower I'd rather make a beeline for it and not give them too much time to prepare.
Of course I can put you together a weapon, we'll probably be making a lot of arms and armor in the coming days. Kal'tos and Vallen need to go on a little dwarf adventure when we get back to Newspring and find a small source of iron though, so Kal'tos can use profession (miner) to gather us up some raw materials. Or we melt down the extra swords we found.
Hmmm, I've been thinking I want a falchion. I'm not going to be tripping or disarming, so I think I should go more crit focused to up the damage. Perhaps I could give my flail to make a falchion?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Great - thank you, DM Nerk. One last multi-part question (I promise): what is the build DC of an outrigger canoe? How about a ship? And, if we can ever figure out some sort of locomotion, something like a steamboat?
Probably I'll have to bring in a really good shipbuilder for the last two - I can't see Cueta retiring to be a boat builder. Expert with 15 int, class skill craft ships (and 6 ranks), skill focus (craft ships) and mw tools would have a mod of +16 and there's probably like 3 of those people in all of Golarian - what would one of those guys cost?
OK, that was two questions - sorry!
I'd say a simplish boat like a canoe (with or without outrigger) would be DC 5, and for a dugout, all the tools you need are fire, water and a few rocks. A seaworthy canoe like the kuru use would come in around DC 10, and a launch with a mast like you got from the Harpy would be DC 15. A full blown ship would be DC 20. Double those DCs to use carpentry.
I'm not feeling a lot of love towards steam (punk or otherwise) in this campaign, mostly because the source material (such as it is) is more 16th-17th century. Pre-steam, in other words. I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of you inventing steam power, but until I get around to inventing a system for inventing things, let's table it.
When you get within a snowball's chance in heII of hiring a shipbuilder of that caliber, I'll have long since retired from GMing. You'll have to ask the next guy. (Honestly, I have no idea, but i know it's enough we don't have to worry about it now).
I'd say a simplish boat like a canoe (with or without outrigger) would be DC 5, and for a dugout, all the tools you need are fire, water and a few rocks. A seaworthy canoe like the kuru use would come in around DC 10, and a launch with a mast like you got from the Harpy would be DC 15. A full blown ship would be DC 20. Double those DCs to use carpentry.
Oh, OK - that's great. I was worried a ship would be like a DC 30 or something not attainable. I took a rank in craft (ships) and will be retraining my craft (carpentry) at some point in the future. I'm happy to know that when the time permits, I can start work on a ship.
I'm not feeling a lot of love towards steam (punk or otherwise) in this campaign, mostly because the source material (such as it is) is more 16th-17th century.
Makes sense to me.
When you get within a snowball's chance in heII of hiring a shipbuilder of that caliber, I'll have long since retired from GMing. You'll have to ask the next guy. (Honestly, I have no idea, but i know it's enough we don't have to worry about it now).
Ha! Fair enough!
What will she do if they try to attack her specifically?
If there is a priest of shaman of some sort in the tower I'd rather make a beeline for it and not give them too much time to prepare.
Good point Gair. Tower it is.
Also Gair, what class are you thinking for Hassan? I'm torn between Fighter (with ranged combat feats) or Ranger (skirmisher) for retraining Istiel. I'm leaning towards Fighter due to RP reasons, but Ranger skills are much more useful in this campaign.
I was thinking of goofy high DCs, but the truth is, people who know how to build ships generally can build ships. It takes time and materials, and knowing what you're doing.
What will she do if they try to attack her specifically?
I'm hoping it won't come to that. Run away? Hold their foreheads so that they swing and miss with their short arms? Maybe she doesn't go down there with you all and studies some murals or something...
What will she do if they try to attack her specifically?
If there is a priest of shaman of some sort in the tower I'd rather make a beeline for it and not give them too much time to prepare.
Good point Gair. Tower it is.
Also Gair, what class are you thinking for Hassan? I'm torn between Fighter (with ranged combat feats) or Ranger (skirmisher) for retraining Istiel. I'm leaning towards Fighter due to RP reasons, but Ranger skills are much more useful in this campaign.
At some point we may have to fight a pitched battle. A few fighters can be key in such a fight.
Cueta let the dwarves handle getting the people down. No point rushing things and getting someone hurt at this stage.
Cueta let the dwarves handle getting the people down. No point rushing things and getting someone hurt at this stage.
Cueta's not acting really rationally right now, but hearing her sister's voice, and seeing the captives' listlessness has convinced her that her plan of smashing a hole in the cage with her bill is not a great one. Thanks for the help, dwarves!
I have proposed a plan over in the gameplay thread. I think it is workable and fairly safe and simple.
This more or less concludes the adventuring portion of the expedition to the island. Infodump loading....
So there are no more enemies on the island?
Well that's cool, we should be able to finish up exploring today and hopefully we can set out for Newspring in the morning. We'll have to keep in mind that there is still a canoe full of Kuru out there.
Sorry for the delay guys, busy day yesterday. Catching up now.
Holy crap, so much has happened!
This is what I get for hanging out with a friend for 10 hours yesterday :P
This more or less concludes the adventuring portion of the expedition to the island. Infodump loading....
Thanks, Nerk! This was great and very descriptive/imagination invoking - mysterious islands, evil cannibals, dwarf fortresses with elven towers (I'm looking forward to figuring that one out), sea demons and electricity bears, and long-lost relatives, and a really tough fight (thank gods for that dwarven line of death!) all in one location. Everyone was able to pitch in to clear the area, from Ben's scouting to Gair and Bern's blootletting, Manari's life-saving archery and our dwarven toolboxes doing their very steady and competent things. Very nicely done!
I have one bit of business to tie up with Lady Kralish, but need to see how the ladies get down to start the conversation. I'll spoiler it as we move along. Thanks again!
Friends are important too it's okay!
Public service announcement- We have 22 food units leftover from the Harpy, which is 2 days worth of food. I know we have trail rations, but instead of using all of the rations, I propose a more divine solution: Abstemiousness
If Both Kal'tos and I prepare 3 casts a day, and we use the nuts and berries from our trail rations, we can feed everyone easily until we make it back. I'm considering that Vallen will begin using this on himself every day when we return, after he sees the food situation.
It's up to Nerk, but I would think 1 trail ration could feed 6 people a day with 6 casts of Abstemiousness?
Vallen, that's a cool spell, but annoyingly vague, because how many handfuls in an ordinary days worth of food?
I'm going to say an ounce of trail rations is a handful. Since a trail ration is a pound, that's up to 16 castings possible per day of food. That's a lot, but of course, spells/day will be the limiting factor.
Friends are important too it's okay!
Public service announcement- We have 22 food units leftover from the Harpy, which is 2 days worth of food. I know we have trail rations, but instead of using all of the rations, I propose a more divine solution: Abstemiousness
If Both Kal'tos and I prepare 3 casts a day, and we use the nuts and berries from our trail rations, we can feed everyone easily until we make it back. I'm considering that Vallen will begin using this on himself every day when we return, after he sees the food situation.
It's up to Nerk, but I would think 1 trail ration could feed 6 people a day with 6 casts of Abstemiousness?
If only it could be cast over entire baskets of food. That would massively aid in our food situation.
Indeed, that's an awesome spell Vallen!
On the subject of starvation, I think there is a line in the actual rules that says the damage from starvation can't be healed until you receive food so I definitely agree with your ruling.
So we can feed 6 people a day with castings and we are (barring any bad weather) 3 days out from NS. That's 18 oz of rations and a total of 40 food units for the three days, for 11 people - should do the trick and leave us with 7 units food surplus on arrival at Newspring. Someone will lose 2 rations as well.
Note that Cueta has given her four remaining rations to the ladies.
Do you all want the king's canoe? I'd like to leave the Kuru leader, sitting in his throne, on bugbear beach if possible.
Given our success here I would really rather not advertise it quite yet. We may well come back to find the island taken over by bugbears and we're still not sure how friendly they really are...
I'm alright losing the two rations.
Well, I'd say unless we move Newspring here ASAP, we're probably not going to keep the island regardless (or we'll have to clear it out again if we want it down the line). It is too good a location to remain vacant for the time that we'll need to get Newspring up and running and healthy.
A gift of the king in his chair could go a long way towards some sort of accommodation with the bugbears.
Vallen, that's a cool spell, but annoyingly vague, because how many handfuls in an ordinary days worth of food?
I'm going to say an ounce of trail rations is a handful. Since a trail ration is a pound, that's up to 16 castings possible per day of food. That's a lot, but of course, spells/day will be the limiting factor.
Thanks for the ruling Nerk! I'll make a note of that so we can use it in the future. Keep in mind Kal'tos and I will be using all our non-domain spell slots to keep us full on the way back. We should let the ex-prisoners have actual food, the rest of us can eat our Torag Farms Mixed Nuts (less than 50% peanuts!)
So we can feed 6 people a day with castings and we are (barring any bad weather) 3 days out from NS. That's 18 oz of rations and a total of 40 food units for the three days, for 11 people - should do the trick and leave us with 7 units food surplus on arrival at Newspring. Someone will lose 2 rations as well.
Note that Cueta has given her four remaining rations to the ladies.
Do you all want the king's canoe? I'd like to leave the Kuru leader, sitting in his throne, on bugbear beach if possible.
There are 11 of us now, we either need to take two canoes or the king's canoe and we just make the fortitude saves until they're well enough to paddle. I want that mega canoe anyway. Also- YES we are leaving him on Bugbear Beach (it will forever be called that) on his throne, brilliant. Vallen casting mending and Cueta doing carpentry, we can put it back together and get it sea-worthy.
As for the food- Don't forget we have to eat today. That means we'll have 11 food from the Harpy tomorrow. If we leave tomorrow morning- It will take 2 trail rations with 6 castings of Abstemiousness for 3 days of travel. That feeds 6 people for the three days. The other 5 people for the 3 days is our leftover 11 food + 4 trail rations.
We have enough food to make it back in 3 days, but it will cost us 6 trail rations. Vallen can give 2, Cueta just gave up her 4, so we're set on food, weather permitting.
Nerk: What is the carrying capacity of mega canoe?
Also, here are Nerk's notes on the mega canoe from before:
Ten to properly paddle the big canoe. I'd say seven could manage it with a relatively minor (DC 10) Fort save to avoid fatigue at the end of the day.
Stacking canoes isn't feasible. Towing will create enough drag to slow you to 15"
We could grab some more goods from the Harpy Cave (I'm sure it could hold a bunch) but at this point we just need to get back to Newspring.
Well I think it might remain clear for a while, the water is a solid barrier for wandering monsters and if we don't advertise the Kuru's absence most intelligent creatures who know about it will likely avoid the location for weeks before anyone becomes to curious about the lack of cannibal raids.
Given the small number of Kuru, I think it's fair to assume that there aren't that many bugbears or the conflict would have been over fairly quick. Maybe even just the one. It/they may still make good allies but I think we'll likely have the upper hand in such negotiations.
So ... you guys are comfortable eating Torag's nuts?
Ten to paddle the big canoe, 7 with a penalty, and I said half the full crew at a minimum, so it's full capacity would be 16, plus carrying space for another 8. It's big. It's also big enough that were it rigged with a sail, it would still need 2 to skeleton crew it, 4 to do the job properly.