Well, I'd still like to scout the island, for a few reasons.
1) Threat assessment: we don't know much about numbers for the Kuru. If we get numbers we can figure out a better plan to deal with them, whether it is hiding/avoidance, peace, guerilla war, or all out combat.
2) Island assessment: We know that there is a tower and a huge portcullis there. What if anything else is there? Who were the original inhabitants? Why are they no longer there? If they are still alive, would they like the island back? If so, could this be a useful bargaining chip, for food or weapons or a treaty or something else? If they aren't around anymore, then the island could be a huge resource for us at some point.
3) Most importantly, from Cueta's viewpoint, that the possibility there are survivors of the Harpy in the hands of the Kuru is too much to bear. Without more information, it will knaw at her conscience if we leave. If we scout it and there's prisoners and 100s of kuru warriors on the island, she will regretfully leave the prisoners behind. It will be horrible for her, but it is a choice she will force herself to live with, and she won't hold anyone else accountable. If there are no prisoners, she's happy to leave the Kuru be and practice avoidance for now, or remove the threat if it is feasible (in other words, she's pretty approachable with any ideas). But she can't just leave without knowing. Doing so would cause a lot of resentment towards those who would so callously throw important lives away, as she's operating under the assumption that there are prisoners on that island. I'll say this, though - go along with this, and Cueta will happily support others with any hairbrained (in her mind) schemes in the future. You'll have earned her trust, and she'll go to the ends of the earth for you. She's big on loyalty and gratitude for support.
4) Regarding the 5 kuru out here with us, Cueta's pretty neutral. She does't think they'll catch up to the NPCs and doesn't think we'll catch them tonight, but is happy to go along with the others as they decide.
Kal'Tos firmly believes that all survivors of the Harpy are in Newspring. The Kuru that we captured were just spewing hatred at Ceuta. They are cannibals why would they keep people alive? Right now the PCs have more important things to do than scout an island several days away from our village, Newspring is going to run out of food soon, and that won't be a pretty sight even with us there.
Scouting is likely to cost us about a day, maybe a little more if we decide there is something we can actually do about the situation. Given how long it takes to get out here I think that's well worth the effort.
Looking at it, the other canoe is well behind our own boats and aren't likely to continue on far enough to even have a chance of catching them or will simply go past the bay and follow the main coast anyway. It's most likely that we will encounter them somewhere on our return trip. We can deal with them then.
I'd say we take the canoe an hour or so further east before hiding it and making camp. From there we can strike out on a scouting trip in the morning, reach the island around noon, make a trip around to take it's measure and then likely head for home. All in all we'll only be one day behind and won't be left wondering "what if?".
We'll want to use the hide shirts to look the part and our couple extra number will seem captured victims.
Agreed on all accounts, Gair.
Kal'Tos, I see what your are saying, and you very well could be correct - heck, I, the player think you probably are. I don't know that Cueta can leave without proof though. She's a CG ex-slave that hates cruel people, enslavers, and hurters of children and women - and the Kuru are all of the above. What can Cueta help you with when we get back to Newspring to make up for a lost day? Is there anything in particular that you need help with that you are eager to get started on?
What about watch tonight? Tonight is our first night without Edmund, Jaysin, etc., correct?
I've watched with Manari the last few nights and am happy to do so again.
Agreed on all accounts, Gair.
Kal'Tos, I see what your are saying, and you very well could be correct - heck, I, the player think you probably are. I don't know that Cueta can leave without proof though. She's a CG ex-slave that hates cruel people, enslavers, and hurters of children and women - and the Kuru are all of the above. What can Cueta help you with when we get back to Newspring to make up for a lost day? Is there anything in particular that you need help with that you are eager to get started on?
We need to get more tiles explored so we can spread out the food collection. All of our new goods should go into more farms, we need all the food collection we can get.
Also I would say recovering the other Kuru canoe is important, 3 canoes and the 2 boats will allow us to move a decent force by water, or get a reasonable amount of fishing done.
All of this is true but one day will not cost us too dearly and the last canoe should not be difficult to collect. If we are returning o Newspring by sea we will almost certainly encounter them on their way back to the island at some point. We just need to keep an eye on the coast in case they are ashore when we cross their path. Either way they have proven very easily bait-able so it should not be difficult to draw them into a fight.
As for watches, how's this?
8-10 :Gair
10-12 :Manari, Ceuta
12-2 :Vallen
2-4 :Kaltos
4-6 :Ben, Bern
works for me
Agreed on all accounts, Gair.
Kal'Tos, I see what your are saying, and you very well could be correct - heck, I, the player think you probably are. I don't know that Cueta can leave without proof though. She's a CG ex-slave that hates cruel people, enslavers, and hurters of children and women - and the Kuru are all of the above. What can Cueta help you with when we get back to Newspring to make up for a lost day? Is there anything in particular that you need help with that you are eager to get started on?
We need to get more tiles explored so we can spread out the food collection. All of our new goods should go into more farms, we need all the food collection we can get.
Also I would say recovering the other Kuru canoe is important, 3 canoes and the 2 boats will allow us to move a decent force by water, or get a reasonable amount of fishing done.
I plan on doing both exploring and foraging when back. With good rolls, we (myself, Gair, anyone else with survival) should be able to bring in ~ 10 more food a day.
If I agree to support the putting of any goods towards farm building (though I have no voice on the council, I can advocate for it), could we go for a day of scouting? That seems like a fair trade, especially when taking into account all those extra food I'll be bringing in when exploring :)
@Nerk I am going to move the skull and shackles game forward. post your actions for the after piracy party and transfer to the new ship when you are ready.
So sorry, Ben, I was waiting to see if diplomacy had any effect. It seems not to have.
That should wrap up the day, unless Newspring has any further steps they want to take.
Sorala has no further actions in mind. Barring anything unexpected, she's ready to go home and go to sleep.
Good to move on :)
Cueta can see trees, and is able to deduce the presence of a forest somewhere nearby....
Ha! Indeed, sometimes she has trouble seeing the forest from the trees...
So it's a fairly short trip to the Kuru island. I still believe our best bet is to dress our taller members in the Kuru armor, load everyone into the canoe, having the undisguised members sit backwards as if they were prisoners and make a pass of the island to gather reconnaissance. Sound Good?
I think this is very encouraging actually. With only a couple boats I think we are in good shape to take them now. It will require some careful warfare but the advantages are exceptional.
I think this is very encouraging actually. With only a couple boats I think we are in good shape to take them now. It will require some careful warfare but the advantages are exceptional.
A protracted battle with the Kuru at 2:1 odds in their favour when we have no good escape is asking for people on our side to die. Yes Vallen and I can do a lot of healing but a couple of Kuru can kill someone in one round if they get lucky, and our mage has a very small number of spells she can cast. If we go toe to toe with 20 or more Kuru I predict a TPK, it wouldn't happen immediately but one guy will die to a lucky set of rolls a couple rounds in, we can't channel energy mid fight without healing the Kuru as well, then people will start dropping one by one as Vallen and I cannot reach people in time, or we run out of spells, or too many people take damage at the same time.
Much better to burn their boats, and come back in a few weeks with 30 people and do things right.
We don't have 30 people to commit to such an action. It will likely be a very long time until we do.
There should be no reason to go toe to toe with 20 Kuru at any one time. We can catch a group when they come out of the cave maybe two, take the guards inside, if there even are any before any solid offense can be organized, which won't be particularly organized regardless. The better portion of their number will be down in small engagements before they even know what hit them.
We don't have 30 people to commit to such an action. It will likely be a very long time until we do.
There should be no reason to go toe to toe with 20 Kuru at any one time. We can catch a group when they come out of the cave maybe two, take the guards inside, if there even are any before any solid offense can be organized, which won't be particularly organized regardless. The better portion of their number will be down in small engagements before they even know what hit them.
If everything goes according to plan yes, but you don't plan for best case scenario, you plan for how things go badly, and we really have no way of retreating if things good badly, what if they have a caster? Or if their king has a level or 2 of barbarian? Or we see 3 ships and it turns out they have a lot more people inside? Once we commit there isn't a good way out.
Hence Ben's scouting first. They don't have scouts out, we find a place to hide and settle in. Hell if we leave the boat on the beach and prompt a search they would be sufficiently divided as it is. Break into the cave while most of them search the island.
I would wager that their leader does have several levels of barbarian or a similar class but that's no reason to call it off.
I get the impression that we are going to continue to disagree on this one. I guess we'll need to hear from the others in order to come to a decision.
Lately, I feel like my role as GM is to present situations that make you guys disagree.
It usually seems to come down to Rangers v Clerics, with the Rogue swing vote. I should work on issues that divide the party in other ways. Hmm.
Well, I'd be for raiding, but I've already asked Kal'Tos to step outside his comfort zone, and I appreciate that, so if it comes down to a vote, I'll abstain.
If we do this, and they have no guards posted at the beach, I think we should go with Ben's idea and sabotage the canoes. Maybe not burn them, as the smoke could raise an alarm, but we could take them off the beach and around the side of the cliffs and hole them, sinking them. Then, if we need to beat a hasty retreat, we just need to make sure that we're the ones in the canoe. And preferably the king's canoe.
Alternatively, we could take kindling and any other flammable materials that we could find (perhaps with a survival check) and torch the boats as we go, but we may have to stand our ground until we are good and sure that the boats are up in flames enough that they can't be salvaged.
Regardless, if we have to beat a canoe retreat, we should be able to win any ranged fight, as they generally only have one javelin, and we have slings and bows. Someone should take my bow when we are in the canoe, as I can't use it and steer. Can someone use it that doesn't have a ranged weapon? I also have 18 arrows with me.
Lately, I feel like my role as GM is to present situations that make you guys disagree.
It usually seems to come down to Rangers v Clerics, with the Rogue swing vote. I should work on issues that divide the party in other ways. Hmm.
Does this mean that we need to start taking Ben out dinner, paying for his travel, and giving him other perks? Should we nickname him "Ohio"?
What if we destroy the king's boat and one other and steal the last boat, we could move faster, still mess with the Kuru and avoid a large fight.
What if we destroy the king's boat and one other and steal the last boat, we could move faster, still mess with the Kuru and avoid a large fight.
I don't think anyone else has prof (sailor) with us, so taking two boats, while ideal for us at Newspring, may be difficult. As is, we're moving 20' in one boat, so we either need to steal two or the king's canoe to move at full speed. I agree with you that if we can steal and take two (or all of them) home, that is the best option - then we have more boats at home (though we're going to need to start guarding them at some point).
What about stacking a canoe on the king's boat? It is three times the size. We may be able to fit a canoe and us 6 on the king's boat that way.
DM Nerk, can people use prof (sailor) untrained to work a canoe?
Also, it is very interesting that we have a dwarven underground complex with some other type of well-made construction on top of it. I wonder what that means?
lets take the king/goddesses boat. I am willing to try to fight them all but there are about 30 of them I think. It would be a tough fight but if the dice gods love us we could do it if we don't have to fight all at once.
So, as a basic plan:
1. we land near the canoes. Should this be done at dark? Take flammable items with us and set two canoes up to be burned if we can stack a third onto the king's canoe, or set three canoes up to be burned otherwise?
2a. Ben scouts a bit around, sees if they have scouts or guards themselves. IF there is a small amount of bad guys in an area, we take them out. Ben scouts a bit further, we take out small amounts of bad guys, rinse and repeat.
2b. IF there are large amounts of bad guys, we beat a retreat to the boats and torch two or three and take off with the king's canoe.
What is a suitable amount of regular bad guys that we can take at one time before getting overwhelmed? 10?
Also, I have 5 torches, so if we get ahold of something flammable (tar? kindling? pitch? some strange herb or plant found with a survival roll?), we can set the canoes alight pretty quickly. Should we leave someone (Bern?) with the torches and flint and steel and at the ready to torch the boats at a signal, as we beat a retreat?
Kal'Tos, would a measured attack be acceptable? With the condition that if we are faced with too many at one time, we retreat?
I would say we cannot take more than even numbers per fight, personally I would be fine with just stealing/ destroying boats. I have a bad feeling that we will get over extended if we try to wipe out the Kuru.
What if we split the difference and say 7-8 is our limit? Or consider a higher number and work downward as our resources get consumed?
The problem with fighting Kuru on less than 1:1 is that a couple Kuru ganging up on someone could result in a dead PC or NPC before a cleric can get to them. Each member of our party is more valuable alive than killing a couple Kuru.
Is that a good compromise for everyone? Fight any Kuru on a 1:1 basis, and retreat in the face of superior numbers?
With 7 of us I'd say that's a fair compromise. If they have no boats to chase us with anymore why don't we just tow the other canoes behind the large one like we did with the first one?
Nerk, how many people are required to paddle the large canoe effectively? Thinking about it, it's probably 10ish so we may have to burn the large canoe regardless. In that case, we can damage/burn the big one and one of the others. We should be able to slip the remaining two into the water easily enough if we have to beat a hasty retreat. Pitch should be easy enough to get our hands on with the forested mainland right nearby. We should hole them while we're at it because if we do have to light them in a hurry, the Kuru may have time to put out the fires before they are completely ruined. Even so the damage should be sufficient that we have time to escape before they can follow us.
Is this acceptable? If so I guess we can head back to shore for the time being and collect some pitch? before coming back?
Works for me. Then we can do a nighttime raid as well.
I'm back! And caught up. I'm glad to see Vallen didn't get shaved, and excellent work with the Kuru ambush.
I see we're at the island again, and have gathered some useful information- I'd be against a frontal assault, and Vallen is going to do some serious complaining, but honestly we're already here so we may as well be adventurers about this and murder anything that doesn't beg for mercy on the island.
You don't need to worry about pitch- Vallen can cast
He can cast it 6 times a day so, in addition to acid dart 6 times a day, AND he has Spark still prepared so he can set Fine objects on fire instantly (such as a broken up oar). I don't think you need to worry about the canoes if we want to destroy them, Vallen has it covered if objects need destroying.
The only thing I'm worried about is that throne- Hopefully whatever they're worshiping isn't home or it's not an ultra powerful magic user.
So you know what, let's go for it. Kick in the door and if we're outnumbered run the hell away.
I doubt canoes enjoy the number of acid orbs Vallen and I can create.
That's right, go clerics! In that case we can go now!
And for the record, we plan to be a little more subtle than simply kicking in the door :P
So ok, new plan. We land on the small beach, punch a few holes in the big canoe and one of the smaller ones, on the end closest the water so it's not immediately apparent. Push the smaller one out to sea so it sinks and with luck no one will notice we've even landed.
Find a place to hunker down with sight of the cave and have Ben do a little scouting, yes?
Sure, so we're destroying the canoes first? Remember Vallen can also cast mending at will, so he can fix any damage we do if there are less Kuru than we expected.
Ah right I forgot about Ben scouting. Send in the burglar!
Burgler indeed! But yes, we want to leave only two canoes in working order should we need to make a quick escape.
Welcome back, Vallen! One thought about wrecking the canoes right off the bat - perhaps we should see if there are any guards in the cave/hole in the wall first, and then if there are none or the guards are dispatched, destroy the canoes or set them up to be destroyed? If it is dark and we wear the sharktooth disguises, we may be able to get the jump on any bad guys in the tunnel, but if we start casting spells and holing canoes first, we'll give ourselves away really quick.
Also, I really love the idea of our clerics casting acid orb, spark, etc. and raining their godly might down on these canoes. It brings a great smile to my face. Yay team cleric!
Let me see...
Ten to properly paddle the big canoe. I'd say seven could manage it with a relatively minor (DC 10) Fort save to avoid fatigue at the end of the day.
Stacking canoes isn't feasible. Towing will create enough drag to slow you to 15"
You CAN operate the boats untrained, but can't take 10. You may not be able to destroy them as easily as 6d6. They're pretty substantial. Fire would probably help.
Did I miss anything, other than an opportunity to shave a dwarf?
6d6 might not destroy them but I would probably punch a decent hole in the hull? The nice thing about boats is you don't need to destroy a lot of them in order to make them nonfunctional, at least temporarily.
So if taking the large one is technically feasible, do we want to leave it in working order or two of the smaller ones?
I think we should leave the large and a small one, but hole them both and get ready to torch them both as well, putting kindling in each canoe. If - Pharasma forbid it - one or more of us go down, we won't be able to operate the large canoe. So, we'll need a small one to get away. Otherwise, I say we take the large guy, and on the way back, drop that gaudy throne at Goblin Beach - in the best circumstance with King Kuru's corpse sitting in it.
If we have to beat a fighting retreat, we hold off for two rounds while Vallen mends the canoe we need and sparks the other one (or I can spark one with a tinder and flint, which is at least full round action, subject to Nerk's ruling).
I'd prefer us to avoid taking two canoes if possible as we're going to be trusting in the dice gods a lot already.
If we do have to make a retreat I would not want to trust to the ability to hold out for two rounds. I would leave at least one of the small canoes undamaged. I think damaging all of them is a recipe for disaster.
Fine by me. We should still be able to make a getaway if needed. In that case we should start by disabling the king's canoe.
...he wishes a massive dwarven Ironclad, filled with an entire Phalanx of Torag's Holiest Dwarven Defenders were about to come around the cliff's bend to purge the captured island.
Um, Cueta would definitely support this idea. I've been thinking about steamboats for our rivers eventually. Ironclad, dwarven built and armed steamboats - even better!
In the future, when (if) we are settled, I imagine Vallen as an inventor, kind of a Da Vinci of dwarves. Steam power is certainly on the list of things to tinker with.
As for the Ironclads, that is a fancy in Vallen's mind, maybe something passed down from the years after the Quest for Sky. While there are dwarves that settle near the sea called Saltbeards, and they have most certainly tried to build iron ships, they have probably only succeeded in attaching iron plates to the sides of normal ships. There isn't much information about them. Of course, Nerk is in control of all of this.
That's not to say that Cueta and Vallen couldn't work together and make some badass ships...
Nice! I can see Vallen as an inventor.
Cueta isn't thinking about steam power. She is thinking about boat building and about rivers, though, and the idea has occurred to her that one day we'll need craft that navigate our rivers, and we'll probably need them for war. And then she got this crazy thought that there has to be a way for them to be self-propulsive, as the keelboats currently used in the rivers of Golarian are slow going and aweful to navigate on. She has no idea how to go about this, though.
That's where Vallen could come in - I would love to see some Saltbeard staffed, heavily armored warships! Badass indeed!
We need to figure out a way to quickly lash that iron gate closed in the (sewage?) hole, if we need to make a retreat. Last thing we need is the sharkteeth severing that ladder while we're on the way up or down...
I'm not sure how to accomplish that really. Vallen could blow the hinges with artificer's touch, but that might not stop them considering Nerk said it's squeezable to get through.