The Crucible of Freya (Inactive)

Game Master Grimmy

French Wolf wrote:

P.S. Black Dow please say you aren't supporting the Pats? The Man U of the NFL.

Heheh. I'm not a Pats fan per say - but have good friends from Boston who are... also have nothing but admiration for the GOAT HC in Belichick, and the system New England run.

The fact they can continually plug in under achieving players/journeymen and make them play at an elite level is unparalleled in modern sports (in my humble opinion). I think they are more like the All-Blacks than Man U to be honest - as they also push the boundaries of the rules (and overstep them) - but I'm not naive enough to paint them as the villains of the piece - they just have a closer microscope on them... All teams push the legality - and the ones that don't (or haven't perfected the craft) remain average at best.

Just want an awesome game, but aye I'll be leaning toward the Pats... :)

I ended up rooting for the underdog by the end of the game. Can't imagine how a Falcons fan must feel at the moment. The Pats deserve all the accolades that are being heaped on them and hopefully that will signal the end of their era. But I doubt it.

Cheers

But the Falcons won the popular vote

Hilarious :)

Nice Superbowl.

Brady probably cemented his hold on Best QB of all time.

moved to discussion about looking for traps.

I have had this discussion many many times.

so perception to finds traps you can take 20 as to locate there is no consequence for failure other than not finding it.

it is a common misconception that looking for trap and missing by 5 or more sets it off. that is not so.

however you cannot take 20 to disable device as there is a consequence for failure. here is where you actually set it off if you fail by 5 or more.

however in in combat then taking 20 is never an option (same for taking 10 in this case)

I can't find anything in favor or against that.

----> taking 20:

When you have plenty of time, you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20. In other words, if you a d20 roll enough times, eventually you will get a 20. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, just calculate your result as if you had rolled a 20.

nowhere in the description of perception or trapfinding indicates a threat for failing other than not finding the trap.

one could argue that not finding the trap is a penalty, but the act of searching does not set it off, the party member that walks into it does.

(it should be noted that you cannot normally take 20 on opposed checks, like vs sleight of hand or vs stealth)

under disable device

If the check succeeds, you disable the device. If it fails by 4 or less, you have failed but can try again. If you fail by 5 or more, something goes wrong. If the device is a trap, you spring it. If you’re attempting some sort of sabotage, you think the device is disabled, but it still works normally.

clearly here there is a penalty for failure so take 20 is not an option.

also a seldom used note from the disable device skill:

"When disarming a trap or other device, the Disable Device check is made secretly, so that you don’t necessarily know whether you’ve succeeded."

nowhere in the description of perception or trapfinding indicates a threat for failing other than not finding the trap.

THis is the point of contention.

Mind you, I can't find anything that contradicts you, but activating a trap due to a failed perception is a thing I've seen several times.

Janna - The Storm Maiden wrote:

nowhere in the description of perception or trapfinding indicates a threat for failing other than not finding the trap.

THis is the point of contention.

Mind you, I can't find anything that contradicts you, but activating a trap due to a failed perception is a thing I've seen several times.

then that could be considered a mistake. If you can set it off using perception (not stated) can you set it off by failing to disable it? (specifically stated)

That sounds very reasonable Janna. Some of the traps in my modules mention a consequence for failure on perception but most by far don't.

It seems to me like the thing to watch out for is the trigger though. Some triggers such as location and proximity could get triggered by a PC while he goes through taking 20.

The section on traps says:

Creatures that succeed on a Perception check detect a trap before it is triggered.

I always read that as meaning the inverse is also true. "Creatures that fail on a perception check do not detect a trap before it is triggered." Since taking 20 involves a series of failures leading up to a success, it's risky business because depending what that trigger is, you might trigger it.

Edit: You guys ninja'd me! But the part that makes it a grey area for me is not under perception or disable device, it is under traps.

Well this is all great discussion however this is in fact DM Grimmy's game. and thus should abide by his rules.

I think there are in fact extenuating circumstances that can come into play, and that is where the skill of the GM comes in to make the game fun and challenging.

If you wish we can discuss further but as GM you always have the final say.

Although, It does not mean I won't be looking for an edge every now and then.

True, I did basically make a ruling on this last friday here in this thread when I said "Taking 20 on perception is risky because you might set off traps." In fact, it was for this very room, and that is exactly why Damien went to get Sam and Jerrid. However, I never have a problem with you guys bringing me a different perspective. Posting a reasoned argument politely here in the discussion thread like Janna has is a perfect way of handling it, and much appreciated :)

My default is to run things the way I have been at home for years but I am also interested in learning what the standard interpretations are. I love learning from these discussions. I grew up in the years when it was pretty much all rulings, and I missed a decade of 3.x before coming to PF in 2010. At home, my group seems to prefer things a little fast and loose but for PbP I have been trying to learn more RAW. I like the way the complexity of the rules helps players know what to expect, it can make their decisions more meaningful. However, I still think the GM is there to make sure the RAW doesn't create outcomes that make no sense.

If there was a trigger that would have been set off by Sam as he "take 20"'d the room, it would have been set off. But because the trigger was opening the door, and he didn't open the door, the trap didn't go off.

See it goes both ways. I'm never going to have a trap go off because someone looked at it wrong, because that just doesn't make sense. If one of those tiles was a pressure plate though and you search the whole room taking 20...

Everyone ok with the pace slowing down here for a bit? I can bot Sam if necessary but I don't mind waiting.

I'm always up for pushing forward, momentum is a big thing in pbp, as we've seen over the last few weeks :)

That said, nothing wrong with a breather. The key though is for everyone to keep busy. We're all here standing around but that doesn't mean we have to be idle.

This is a great opportunity for our characters to talk over our findings in Eralion's study. For instance, better even than DMG's excellent depiction, Janna knows for certain that the treasure vault lies behind the door. Aside from that, we have the journal page and a bunch of info about the shard. Anyone care to take it upon themselves to enlighten the rest of us?

I would like 50 post per day of course :P, but I understand if people is busy, it just happens.

I want 50 posts a day too! But then I get busy too. Nicos we should play a VTT session some time, if we can figure out that technology. Ha.

Haha, yeah. If you do figure it out I'd love to get in on it!

I think we could Roll 20 if we all have headphones with Skype up!!

Loading lots of maps and tokens and you are good to go.

Is it always headphones? Never text based?

You can use all text if you want.

A group I used to game with tried it with Skype and headphones. It worked well.

This is the vault guys, so you decide whats in it. 3000GP each. You choose the loot. The two staffs are on top of that so figure out what's fair. The people who get the staffs should give up some share into a pool or something.

You should select what's in the pile now now because... well let's say you might have occasion to use it.

Google hangouts and/or discord is better in my limited experience of roll20 games. Better than skype anyway. I'm no tech savvy guy and the learning curve is tough but one day I'm sure we can set something up.

I've played in a few games and about to start a Sunday night Strange Aeons campaign next week. All because there is no real pathfinder played as a tabletop in my town. 5E yes, pathfinder not so much.

Cheers

I think Sam's stat line is not up to date, so Sam should be acting in the surprise round after all.

Thx will post soon

Withdraw only protects you for the first square Sam. You're still going to eat two AoO's moving out the room. I'd roll acrobatics as well if you want to stick with the withdraw.

Also, Jerrid you should still have an action left. As far as I can tell you've only used a single move action to slip behind the snakes.

I will hope they don't have combat reflexes. Jerrid already drew a slew of aoos

Acrobatics cost 2x move--can't afford that

Yeah, with AoO's pulled by Jerrid you should hopefully be okay.

Since we have all this treasure laying around, I highly suggest we "Find" a wand of cure light wounds among the spoils. Though we'll still probably want to hunker down for the rest of the day, provided those earthquakes aren't going to keep going at least.

Also, Jerrid you should still have an action left. As far as I can tell you've only used a single move action to slip behind the snakes.

I think Jerrid used an acrobatic double move.

So I'm trying to figure out the threshold for sharing information and meta-gaming.

If certain members of the group have learned valuable intel about an enemy, can we mostly assume they are sharing it or should we wait until it's explicitly shared?

Our group tends to have fairly short combat posts so often lots of info from knowledge checks or individual experience, like the DR here, tends to fall by the wayside.

I mean it would be reasonable for for the rest of us to assume that a skeletal enemy would be vulnerable to bludgeoning damage and due to positioning I can't use my hammer at the moment anyway, I'm just curious and thinking out loud here.

I think that already in game was determined that against things made of bone using a bludgeoning was the best option.

People rolling knowledge checks need to share what they learn, but characters can reason too since they've faced skeletons before.

I think that already in game was determined that against things made of bone using a bludgeoning was the best option.

http://paizo.com/campaigns/TheCrucibleOfFreya/gameplay&page=12#582

I'm aware we know that Leo, with Janna and Sam stunned in the doorway there's no room for me to use my hammer yet.
The situation got me thinking though so I wanted to start a discussion, that's all.

On a different topic, is there room a person to stand comfortably in one of the alcoves?

Yup those alcoves are standard 5' squares.

I will be mobile only tomorrow, and busy, may not be able to post until wednesday.

Jerrid is off sick with manflu - please bot me. Ta

Hey Janna, you know moving the sphere is only a move action right? You still have a standard you could use.

Also, could you please be so kind as to step back so us frontliners have room to maneuver. It'd really help us out :)

ok sure, thanks for the info

So, are you still going to step back Janna? Or use that standard action?

It's kinda relevant to my turn.

the direction is fine, I actually didn't think of that.

also I am heading out to sea today on Harmony of the Seas heading to Nassau Bahamas and St. Maartin and St Thomas. I am supposed to have internet on board but not sure on quality of the connection.

Headed to brooklyn, I'll be a little slow until mon night or tues morn.

That's fine for me. I'm just back from a weekend fighting the French-Indian War. It was a very bloody battle which most of my colonials die..

Cheers

That's fine for me. I'm just back from a weekend fighting the French-Indian War. It was a very bloody battle which most of my colonials die..

Cheers

I was there, I was with the Italians

War reenactment?

War reenactment?

no the real war...

I am just joking thought it was funny.

War regression? :)

Hi There

Nope, it was 28mm figures on a ten foot table. French in a fort, English/colonials attacking, French relief force coming on somewhere at some point.

Cheers
FW

That sounds awesome FW.

I am stuck in NYC an extra day without my laptop and things have gotten a bit mad. I will be back ties night and posting regularly after that

Sorry!

Our "general" is an ex-Royal Marine Staff Sargeant who does tours of the European battlefields in his time off in the summer.

I was Colonel George Washington and my final order was I mustn't get killed!

I'm busy here to DMG but ready when you are.

Cheers
FW

I'll second DMG, that sounds awesome!

Always wanted to get into proper miniature wargames like those. It's just so damn expensive I find it hard to justify. At least for the time being :P

I get you, Damien. I taught them Pathfinder and they taught me this. One funny result is that they buy a figure from Reaper and then decide what they want to play.

Cheers