Sorry for disappearing on y'all like that, the holidays have been a whirlwind. Graduation, vacation in the mountains, two Christmases, and now...family changes.
If I've been out too long to keep playing, I'll understand.
Hope everyone enjoyed whatever holiday you may or may not have observed!
I'll try to get at least some forward momentum before the new year, but I imagine it won't be steady until then.
Okay... so where were we exactly?
A few members of the group were asking around for more info on the constructs.
Feth is going to find a construct to take her 'taxes' so she can study one up close and personal. She rolled Knowledge History and Engineering.
Payet is also going to study said construct, he rolled Knowledge History.
Patry is gathering info from the general populace on the constructs/taxes/new royalty. She rolled for Diplomacy.
I believe Garroth and Melaphi are also questioning the people about the constructs/taxes/fancy new royalty, but they haven't rolled anything yet.
We've made the decision that we're going to the fortress at high noon. Cue the western theme music!
Okay, so let's start with Monday.
Feth goes about her usual business, but when a tax collecting construct happens by she takes time to study it.
Payet dusts off his old books about the City's history, brushing up on these constructs.
Patry is wandering about the City trying to dig up rumors about the constructs, the taxes, and the new royalty.
Garroth and Melaphi plan to dig up information on the new situation, much like Patry (but haven't rolled anything for it).
Is that all right for Monday? If so, I'll need rolls from Garroth and Melaphi. Also, I'll probably need most of you over at the other thread soon. I'll let you know when I get that worked out.
That sounds good to me
I'm good to go
Alrighty then, here we go.
And I'm back to get into full game mode again.
Welcome back Melaphi. I'll try to get something spun up soon.
If no confrontations are being made, we'll get Garroth's shadow-construct sorted and then be on our way to the Finders' Keep! Sound good?
Sure thing
In case you guys missed it, there's a fight brewing in town. Make sure to head to "Rule the City" gameplay and post your arrival rolls (3d4 rounds to get there) unless your character has other things to be doing.
I still havnt decided on my second Fighter feat, but I think ill take Additional Traits. Will these traits be effective immediately in the current combat? Im thinking Defender of the Society primarily, and will look into a second one.
I have a feeling this fight is about to be over, so let's save it for the next fight (or the first logical pause we get at least).
Also, someone remind me to purchase some potions...
Ok, purchase some potions.
There you were reminded.
Garroth, it's come to my attention that your initiative is now relevant in "Rule the City".
Also, your 4th level feat needs to be a combat feat, right? So no Additional Traits.
What if he chose a combat trait?
Hmm, right, fighter feat. Gonna have to give it some more thought then, save additional traits for level 5.
Sooo, not to be nosy or anything, but I was wondering what the hell Victor is and poked my head into his character sheet. Now I may not have all the details, what with him being a skeleton (and apparently having 5 hd, for...some reason.) but theres a few things that stand out.
Seeing no mention of an int headband, he has the equivalent of a 42 point buy. This is assuming ofcourse that he hasnt been allowed to reduce his non-existent con to a 7, which would still be a 38 point buy.
I wouldnt be bothered as much if this wasnt a pvp game. Thats not even discussing all the immunities of undeath that hes getting.
Yes, I allowed Victor to sacrifice a level of wizard for an undead template. As for his stats, I believe he'd dumped CON before he was undead, and the template adds a bonus to dexterity and charisma or something? Anyway, he's a third-level wizard with a template rather than a fourth-level wizard. Yes, being undead is very powerful. But of course, he really can't afford to die, he's susceptible to positive energy, he's lost a level in a full casting class, and later on you guys can get disruptive weapons or Thanatopic/Threnodic Spell. I'll even let you quest for Celestial templates or what-have-you if that's what you desire. But for this fight, it might just suck.
Celestially blessed would be a cool template for Payet,
Got a link to the template? By 3.5 standards (when there was still the whole "level adjust" thing around), gaining an undead template that doesnt make you mindless would have easily been a +2 modifier. And you wouldnt get hitdice from it either.
The closest thing to what he has is the Skeletal Champion from the Beastiary, which gains +2 str and dex, which still leaves his point buy way over budget. But ofc I havnt seen the template in question.
I think im just mostly against him gaining 2 hitdice from what is supposed to be a lost level. The racial hitdice not only makes him tougher than he should be, it grants him an additional +3 to his base will save and 8 skill points.
Then theres the fact that not only does he gain more point buy from a sacrifice that is meaningless (the con), he moves all Con associated attributes over to charisma, gaining an inflated use out of the stat. All in all its a rather significant power gain.
Really, fiddling with templates in a pvp setting is just exceptionally unbalanced, since Pathfinder has no guideline for how many levels a template is worth, like they did in 3.5
No they do in pathfinder, a +2 template is worth 2 levels at level 1-5 I believe at level 6 it's only worth 1
I'll have to look up the specific rule to see which levels the cost reduces.
Havnt seen that I must admit, though it sounds a bit odd for the adjustment to vary by level. A level lost is a level lost, it shouldnt really matter at what point you lose it.
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So someone with five levels of wizard, five levels I sorcerer give levels of witch and five levels of bard is as strong as someone who can cast wish or miracle?
Early levels the abilities of a template would be worth more
For example of something you would get from a template casting lightning bolt 1-3 times a day and flying would be worth a lot at level 3, but would be nearly worthless at level 20
I went and googled it, and what Payet is referring to is purely for calculating what level the character counts as when working out the average level for the party to assign XP.
There are no Level Adjust rules in Pathfinder.
You could use those rules as the level adjust rules, and in my expirence most do.
Still, I stand by my assertion that 1 level is not enough for what he is getting.
Also looked at the point buy again. Assuming he gets charisma and dex from his template:
Str 10 (-0 points)
Dex 17 (-7 points)
Con - (+4 points)
Int 20 (-13 points assuming a +1 from 4 HD and a +2 from Human)
Wis 12 (-2 points)
Cha 16 (-5 points)
That comes out to a 23 point buy, 3 over budget.
Maybe he simply added it up wrong
The template might have added +4 to CHA actually. So yes, he's considerably more powerful. But have no fear; in the end, it will balance out. However, know that 1) I try to work around what players want for their characters, including undeath (or extraplanar ascension, or whatever), and 2) I'm not going to revoke what I already gave a player. All that said, if I were you I'd be less worried about Victor and more worried about, what was it, like four sentinels still milling about, hunting a particular half-orc?
Still, I stand by my assertion that 1 level is not enough for what he is getting.Also looked at the point buy again. Assuming he gets charisma and dex from his template:
Str 10 (-0 points)
Dex 17 (-7 points)
Con - (+4 points)
Int 20 (-13 points assuming a +1 from 4 HD and a +2 from Human)
Wis 12 (-2 points)
Cha 16 (-5 points)That comes out to a 23 point buy, 3 over budget.
I don't think he gets ability score increases based on HD, only on class levels. Most templates already include some kind of ability score increase.
I don't think he gets ability score increases based on HD, only on class levels. Most templates already include some kind of ability score increase.
Characters get +1 to a stat every 4 hd, though that usually means levels anyway. He has 5.
The template might have added +4 to CHA actually. So yes, he's considerably more powerful. But have no fear; in the end, it will balance out. However, know that 1) I try to work around what players want for their characters, including undeath (or extraplanar ascension, or whatever), and 2) I'm not going to revoke what I already gave a player. All that said, if I were you I'd be less worried about Victor and more worried about, what was it, like four sentinels still milling about, hunting a particular half-orc?
How will it balance out? For Garroths part atleast, I dont see him pursuing any templates, not like he has any knowledge of such things. Really, what rubs me the wrong way is the gaining of hitdice from the template. It makes the loss of a level for his gains almost not matter. Yes, he loses a casting level, but if he had been a non-caster, there would be practically no penalty and nothing but gains.
As for the sentinels, unless they have been actively sprinting after Garroth he should be in the clear. Up until now atleast ive had more of an impression of steady advance from the sentinels, not hot pursuit.
You're probably "in the clear" for now, but sentinels don't get tired, and if they're still looking for you, I'd say there's a good chance that some sentinel somewhere in the city will eventually spot you.
The template adding racial HD is rather weird, but if you were, say, a barbarian, instead of getting a d12 you get 2d8, so only 3 HP more. You also lose all of your post-consciousness HP (dying-not-dead), and a barbarian really can't afford to dump CON the way Victor did. Also, of course, the rage doesn't really mesh with being undead. So I'd say that template would be a terrible move for a barbarian. A fighter less so, with only a d10 and no rage, but again, it's hard to dump CON/pump CHA as a fighter. Plus, you're losing a level of weapon training, armor training, and feat progression, in addition to fighter level prereqs. Maybe worth it, maybe not, depending on how you're building. It's true that Victor has gained more than he would have with, say, a level dip in Barbarian, but he's also gained additional vulnerabilities and risks. There are also additional costs to his decision, like that they had to quest for the transformation (instead of magic items), as well as more subtle costs that he won't realize until later.
The two templates that seem like ones that would fit Payet best are celestially blessed an fey creature
Others that could work would be elementally infuse (air) or half celestial
As a reminder, I believe Patry is up in "Rule the City".
You're probably "in the clear" for now, but sentinels don't get tired, and if they're still looking for you, I'd say there's a good chance that some sentinel somewhere in the city will eventually spot you.
Garroth wouldnt know this, but it sounds to me like all the sentinels are "telepathically" connected with high resolution shared imagery of exactly what Garroth looks like? Have every sentinel in town effectively become aware of Garroths fugitive status and know exactly what he looks like?
The template adding racial HD is rather weird, but if you were, say, a barbarian, instead of getting a d12 you get 2d8, so only 3 HP more.
The thing is, one of the inherent trade offs involved with a template is that fact that you lose durability since you have less HD for your level. A centaur fx was rather powerful, but he was relatively fragile until later levels.
Look at it this way. With the template giving him 2d8 hd, he is effectively losing one caster level to gain all the bonuses, but then also effectively gains what amounts to two levels of Expert (same HP almost same amount of skill points.)
One level for all the undead bonuses as well as natural armor and stat increases is dubious, with the added HP its just flat out broken.
Again, this is mostly because I will be fighting this. If it was something given to a party member in a game that didnt involve pvp id still be thinking "wow thats powerful" but it wouldnt bother me.
Eh, no, they're not all coming after some mental image of Garroth per se, they're rounding up every half-orc in the City. Until you change your race or leave the City... or they get new orders, of course.
Out of sheer curiousity, would they grab a hypothetical half Orc half elf or half Orc quarter elf quarter human or quarter Orc, quarter human half elf or orcish dhampir or some other fraction that contained Orc?
No, but they would probably half orc human orc half quarter elf dhampir orc quarter quarter orc half, most definitely.
That is to say, why do you ask?
Sheer curiousity.
I'm starting to feel that our best option here is full scale retreat. Those robominions really unbalance the fight.
We should get minions, that or make ourselves stronger
If my hold person sticks, we should be able to just run at that point, taking the narrow alleyways where the minions can't follow because of their size.
Hmm what minions would be acceptable for the good aligned...
Let's see, there are celestials but then that's rather boring,
Hmm undead are evil so no
They already have constructs... A different category of constructs maybe?
Clockwork mages would be cool...
Leroooooy Jenkins!
It looks like the fight is over, but there's the chance that Garroth will be stuck dodging sentinels the rest of the week.
Aside from that, what do you all think of the game so far? Suggestions or criticisms?
And are you still on for the Keep this weekend?
Having fun. The sentinels seem a bit, I dunno excessive though. Several rounds to kill even one. When one considers the Price of crafting even a single golem, the effective gold they have acquired through them is so far through the room you cant even see the top of the pile.