Oh snap! No Crystal here. Just a huge, ravenous wolf pack.
I suppose they've disappeared.
Being dead hast afforded me much reason to post. Just thought I might post to show im here.
Yes, terribly sorry about that. I was trying to think of a way to keep you involved, but I'm not sure I have one. We'll handle the matter of your "death" once this fight wraps up though, and then you'll be back in action.
Sorry lots of overtime not much me time
Ruff ruff ruff. Ruff ruff?
I'll give her some more time before I bot her (read: kill her off).
You'd have me fight these things alone? You sure are confidant in my abilities (or you're just eeeevil)
I think he just means that the wolves will have a far higher interest in Patry and her bear for who to eat - and they will fight back till the wolves take them down.
Or Patry has been waiting for this moment her entire life, the chance to finally get revenge on her estranged father for leaving before she was born!
Sorry for the silence. Just did four 12-hour shifts Friday-Monday, so I was passed out for most of yesterday save a few posts...
I'll try to be on today and tomorrow, work Friday, then back for the weekend...
No problem, thanks for popping in. I hope you don't mind the botting so far.
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Happy birthday, then. Your presents are: A long work week and canine death. Hope you're satisfied!
Happy Birthday to you
We all might be screwed
But then we could roll Vigilantes
So don't be too blue!
Seriously though, Happy Birthday!
So im guessing Crystal is a vampire now? And in possession of what amounts to 12 animal companions.
Yeah, I agree with the decisions. Not sure how I got flanked (I thought we were against a wall), but otherwise it's all good.
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If you guys were against a wall I guess that would only allow one pair of flankers, so I'll keep that in mind going forward.
I...I...I have no idea what you are talking about Garroth. I am clearly a human being. I don't even sparkle. And these wolves are just my homies for the next hour or so. Just helping me witness and testify to the non-believers up here.
I know Payet said he was busy over the next few days...we going to wait for him to get back on, or were you going to try and bot him, DM-Kal? He's lying prone on the floor with two wolves on him, at the moment, so in a bit of a pickle.
Yes, I suppose I'll bot him as well.
I'm finally done with overtime.... Just in time to be dominated... Woo
Oops...didn't realize I didn't rank UMD...:P; she does the other one, then.
Anyone else feeling a bit screwed?
Im curious about Crystal. Did she go try to become a vampire and end up becoming a thrall? And assuming she were to become a vampire full time as a player, is Dominate legitimate on the table as an ability?
These templates are getting out of hand, not only because of the amount of power vs level loss, but also because our group really arent the type to go searching for them in the first place. Or, it isnt on Garroths radar at all, I dont know about the rest of you guys.
Pretty much. That's what I get for listening to Victor, the jerk. I have started discussing the Dominate ability with DM-Kal many weeks ago, for exactly that reason. There has been no resolution as of yet, but since I'm here and you guys would be the most affected, I'll go ahead and discuss with you guys.
The gist of my talk with DM-Kal was this: It would be no fun for a hero to get dominated by me and basically become an NPC at that point (although there are certain things that would trigger another save). My proposal is this (assuming DM-Kal is on board): I don't mind nerfing or even outright eliminating the dominate ability, but I would like my one glaring weakness to be shored up a bit. Not Daywalker or anything, mind you, but something that allows me more time to escape sunlight or a similar boon.
Also, keep in mind that I am a full divine caster that is giving up two levels for this template. That's a lot of spell casting capability I'm foregoing to have the template. Also, DM-Kal has indicated that he has offered your group similar 'upgrades' with a goodly bent, so there is always that option.
Yes, the idea is that we all have fun, and I'm trying to be as flexible as possible with that. I realize some balance issues come into play, but I'm equally willing to be flexible with counteracting those as necessary. I'm trying to make a very open world, and the villains sought out a very high-level caster to turn them into something more. It cost them one of their quests and, so far, has cost two full-progression casters to lose one or more levels each. The main problem with what happened here is not that Crystal (and the other vampire) are too powerful (well, the other vampire is definitely), it's that the party split up, AND largely failed to prepare.
If at some point it becomes clear that the heroes are outmatched by their undead rivals, I will consider options to shift the balance. But I was hoping for player creativity to be the balancing factor--I'd like to see both sides coming up with unique solutions to the problems presented by the other side (or by me).
Oh, and with regards to Dominate, I'd currently prefer to use it as one save vs normal actions but a new save every round vs "wouldn't normally do" actions (such as attacking your allies). I didn't grant Garroth that save because I can't say attacking Sarcon is against his nature.
Does that sound alright?
Dominate gets shut down very quickly once protection from evil (communal) is available - assuming our group has more than one person capable of casting at least protection from evil so that whoever has the communal version can be freed from it in the case of a bad save. Or both Feth and I can take the communal version for even extra security. This reduces dominate to a one round annoyance, and forcing one of our casters next actions.
Personally I'm a little more worried about the level drain (in what seems to already be a semi low gold environment, 1k gold to restore levels will get painful fast for restorations if it becomes a regular occurrence), and the sheer stat boosts. +4/+6 to multiple stats is a huge surge in raw character power. I've looked over quite a few templates, and most of those kinds of raw boosts only come from undead templates. The good templates that start to add like abilities, for me at least, just don't fit into the character development/storyline - "Wait, you mean I've had angelic blood coursing through my veins all along and it is just now manifesting itself?"
So that comes down to a custom template which gets tricky to then balance correctly and not be either over or under powered.
The downsides to being a vampire could either be minimal, or really painful, depending on how much DM-Kal pushes that issue. Long journey into the wilderness? Good like finding cover from the sunlight. Cannot enter a home without being invited? Depends on how loosely or strictly home is defined - it could almost make the character unplayable if every lair/tower/ruin gets defined as being the home of whatever lives there.
Oh, and with regards to Dominate, I'd currently prefer to use it as one save vs normal actions but a new save every round vs "wouldn't normally do" actions (such as attacking your allies). I didn't grant Garroth that save because I can't say attacking Sarcon is against his nature.
Does that sound alright?
I think this is the right approach for this aspect of it.
Yeah, theres an inherent problem with the whole "seeking out a template" business, when dealing with Good vs Evil. Thematically, evil will always be more inclined to go for such options for personal power, not caring about any potential social stigma that might be associated with it.
And you are right Mel, the evil themed templates really do tend towards being more powerful.
On a completely unrelated note, has Marcello been rolling Disguise at all, or is he using illusions to avoid people in the streets realizing hes an abomination?
Technically he is completely concealed by his armor. But he and Victor are in much the same situation in that regard. They're fine as long as they're completely covered, but if something were to happen to Marcello's helmet or Victor's mask in public view... well, that would be an entirely different story.
As for templates, I have no problem with, say, Melaphi seeking an Archon's blessing and thereby acquiring angelic blood. Garroth could seek out a mysterious sensei to teach him how to exploit the weaknesses of his foes, Feth might search for an ancient tome of arcane power over undeath... lots of options.
What would be best for Payet?
Thats not really how Disguises works though. Theres a whole range of spells to assist in keeping ones real appearence a secret, all of which are completely irrelevant if all it takes is to completely cover yourself up. Sure, by the Disguise rules, most people wouldnt think anything of it, but for every 100 people who see you in the street theres bound to be one who has reason to wonder, and roll that Perception check.
Hmm... I don't really think of "hide under a blanket" as a use of the disguise skill, and that's essentially the approach those two have taken. But I can raise the question in the "Control" discussion if you prefer.
Hes still an undead posing as a human, which is the important part.
I guess the important question to ask is this: Just because something seems 'off' does that necessarily mean someone would know he is undead?
If you've read A Dance with Dragons, many people presume Ser Robert Strong is Gregor Clegane, but since he is completely encased in his armor they only make presumptions about what he might or might not be.
So, Victor walking around in his creepy ass mask might get people talking and muttering about what might or might not be under that mask, but they wouldn't inherently 'know' that he is some hideous undead creature.
Then again, there's always the possibility that someone spies a bit of rotting flesh through Marcello's eyeslits, or perhaps a brief flash of desiccated skin when Victor's robes swirl as he walks.
Melaphi, you definitely have a point, about the homes. As a ruler of the City, would every home count as my own, or would I still need to ask permission?
At the end of the day, a very real aspect of the rules is being circumvented though.
Its like me sitting out of sight trying to hide, and claiming I dont need to roll stealth because im sitting completely still and holding my breath. To which you would say, "Well if you fail the stealth thats because you slip or something".
The same is true of Disguise. You may THINK you have everything covered, but turns out theres something you didnt take into consideration. A fighter being just as passable at going unnoticed as a legendary copycat, simply because you cant see his features, doesnt sound right does it?
Theres more to a disguise than the simple visibility of features you want to hide.
As for being invited in, id say while a ruler may have the power to seize any building, the people who actually live in it are the ones currently afforded the power of invitation. If I had to make any explanation, id guess a person would have to feel "at home" to be able to afford a vampire entry. Though I have seen vampires in movie and TV show up with the deed to a house, exclaim "See, this? This house belongs to me now." and proceed to saunter inside.
I think I would agree with you on the homes, Garroth. Though in the case of an Inn (or something similar) I think that rule would be circumvented, since the place is a business open to anyone who cares to enter.
I won't argue the point on disguise. I think you have a valid point, but the case could be made that an active Perception check needs to be made to see through a disguise, and the cattle of the City are a trusting lot who don't know about the monsters who live amongst them. :p
Its not so much that the "cattle" would be inclined to suspect anything in general and have a high enough Take 10 score to beat their Disguise results. Even a run of the mill Expert with a few levels to his name would easily sport a 17 or 18 passive Perception. Its more that it only takes a few people thinking something is up to get a rumor mill going. Soon enough, everyone will be actively taking checks when they see the lords of the city, trying to see if the rumors are true. It may not be an inevitable consequence, but theres a real chance the villains could get in a whole heap of trouble because of it.
Simply discarding that whole aspect seems off to me.
Or lets put it like this. If Garroth completely covers his features, would it be reasonable for him to just automatically not get noticed by anyone in your group? You all know what he looks like, but you cant see his features, so auto success?
Returning to the subject of invitations, any place of commerce has an implied invitation attached to it as long as its open for business, so I agree.
I guess the important question to ask is this: Just because something seems 'off' does that necessarily mean someone would know he is undead?
If you've read A Dance with Dragons, many people presume Ser Robert Strong is Gregor Clegane, but since he is completely encased in his armor they only make presumptions about what he might or might not be.
So, Victor walking around in his creepy ass mask might get people talking and muttering about what might or might not be under that mask, but they wouldn't inherently 'know' that he is some hideous undead creature.
Then again, there's always the possibility that someone spies a bit of rotting flesh through Marcello's eyeslits, or perhaps a brief flash of desiccated skin when Victor's robes swirl as he walks.
Melaphi, you definitely have a point, about the homes. As a ruler of the City, would every home count as my own, or would I still need to ask permission?
there's still smell
They're still corpsesRoll disguise to cover up the smell
The negative level thing does suck. There goes all my money. Any chance this vampire will drop a mithril shirt?
I'll grant you that the Heroes get an 'F' in preparing for this encounter. But. I feel like I have to go search for a template or multi-class or something at this point. With the strength bonuses Marcello and Sarcon are rocking I'm in serious danger of being one-shotted by them.
Sarcon is not enhanced at all, beyond his 'normal' stats. He and Marcello both stacked strength and neglected lots of other things (for reference, please refer to Ransaq's complete lockdown of our party).
I honestly have little knowledge of their templates. I figure Victor is desiccated husk, so likely beyond the decomposition state. Marcello I imagined having a slight burning/ashy smell following him around.
You have a couple of things working against you, though. One is that Victor and Marcello haven't been seen beyond our brief fight in the streets and you guys traveling to the gates to leave to retrieve me. Not a lot of time for rumor to have started yet. The other, and likely more important, factor is that we are the legal rulers of this City....so would anyone challenge us even if they did know?
He and Marcello both stacked strength and neglected lots of other things (for reference, please refer to Ransaq's complete lockdown of our party).
This is true. Although you don't have to worry about being shut down like that again as half your party is now immune to mind-affecting spells. I suppose I'll just have to get very creative.
I understand that they stacked strength. I'm just saying that when we talk about templates I feel it's a road I'm going to have to go down.
I'm just saying that when we talk about templates I feel it's a road I'm going to have to go down.
Which is really the core problem. From a roleplaying perspective, none of us really have much of a reason to go looking for stuff like this (I think). I know PvP tends to veer into Roll Play inevitably, but theres still character that needs to be considered.
Bad guys inject themselves with the mutation serum, good guys get bitten by the radioactive spider by accident.
I think I can fit it into the game RP wise. Nearly getting killed by Crystal is good motivation.
Bad guys inject themselves with the mutation serum, good guys get bitten by the radioactive spider by accident.
And what I was trying to say was essentially this. You can get creative and find a way to become something more than you are, you can get creative and find a way to counter their specific advantages, or you can do what you feel is staying true to your character and leave the balancing act to me. I have a few things planned that will change the course of events anyway, so really in this PvP you can have as much roleplay or rollplay as you like, and I'll take care of the rest. As I try to say often, the goal is just to have fun.
As for the houses, citizens own their own house. Unowned homes, non-residential buildings, or military structures require no invitation.
What about an inn or shop that someone lives at (like most such in this time period)
Also what template do you think would be best for Payet
The Wolf Food template looks particularly appealing at the moment.