"Oh yeah, definitely." Scarlet nods at Pip. "Good travels to you."
Still with a very friendly smile on her face, and a immense tension inside, Alia asks:"Surely will, once we have run our errands and have some time. Where do you make camp when you hunt around here? Makes it easier to meet up!"
If they act, they will act now...be on guard...
Still with a very friendly smile on her face, and a immense tension inside, Alia asks:"Surely will, once we have run our errands and have some time. Where do you make camp when you hunt around here? Makes it easier to meet up!"[/ooc]
"Oh? And when might that be? So we have time to prepare and all." Pip asks eye level with Alia even though she is mounted. His breath smelling like the middens on a warm humid day.
"Well, I wouldn't want you to prepare and then it's all in vain because we can't make it in time. So lets add some small buffer to be safe, where will you be in a month from now?"
He scratches a tuft of hair just under his hat. "Hard to say, times being as they are an' all. An' you? You back this way in month?"
"Will pass by on our way down south, yes, planning to visit the Mites in their cave, somewhere between Thorn River, the old Stone Circle near the Forest's border and old Sycamore, if I remember right...do you know the place? They stole something very valuable from a friend, and we intend to get it back."
"Ya ave ta be more spific about the circle but we been down that way. You need guides?"
"Oy. Whats wit 'er?" He says pointing at Kressle who was quite obviously struggling against her bindings, but has now stopped.
"What's with who?" Scarlet turns around and grins at Kressle.
Scarlet slaps Kressle, taking some kind of glee in it. "This little bandit killed our friends and tied us up. So we beat her up and we're taking her to justice. Isn't that right, Kressle?" Scarlet makes it very clear she's enjoying this.
Zokon is still watching and waiting prepared to launch into action or ride away as the situation warrants
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"Clearly, the approach of Brevoy failed..."
"How can you say that? We are the Brevic Solution. And here we are, having captured six bandits recently and killed others, not to mention the ones we dealt with before; these lands are safer now with us having passed through. The problem seems to be that the Brevic solution was not applied to these lands for too long."
"And what fate could they expect up to now?"
"Until now, they did not expect to have to pay for their crimes at all, residing as they are in a lawless land. But any bandit knows that if they are caught by those who are stronger than them and do not fear them, that their fate will not be pleasant. They already joined these groups, knowing it could mean their death."
"Even so, murder is not the usual course of action for them, except when the Stag Lord or his lackeys try to send a message."
"If they only murder people occasionally, they are still murderers."
"The idea of a ... I think you will find many who will allow them to stay."
"Perhaps the people of Kyonin are so forgiving. Is branding the custom there? But the people around here have had to suffer bandits for a long time. They are not likely to be merciful."
"Even better if the person is branded, as they won't risk their lives committing a crime..."
"A brand does indeed warn ordinary folk that a person is dangerous. But the people around here already distrust strangers. And it poses little risk to one who would return to banditry, since bandits do not hide who they are or what they do. All that you have changed is that a bandit faces death on his second offence instead of his first."
"Lumber Camps, Mines, Road construction....there is a lot of work that would welcome branded reformed criminals... "
"There are no such ventures out here. There are no mines, no lumber camps, no roads being built. Only a few trappers and hunters and the occasional farmhouse. And all of those people are like to have grudges against the bandits in these parts, who have preyed on them for who knows how long."
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"As for letting them go, ... If we let them go, on foot, then there's a good chance we could follow their trail,"
"Right now, we are on the way to Restov, and do not have the time. By the time we return their trail will be long gone. And in future, we do not have the time to spend our lives following trails left by those who might rejoin a bandit group that we don't know about. We would have to release them one at a time in case they split up, and hold the others until we could return to begin tracking them."
"I do not speak for you, Alia, but dealing with bandits is not our primary mission, and I don't believe it is yours either. I for one am not going to spend my life tracking every pardoned bandit with the intent of catching him when he reoffends."
"No, if we release them we should feel confident that they have reformed. And we cannot say that now, brand or no."
"If you are worried about honest work for them, just let them be useful...."
"If we agree that Verdigris and Golden Boy here should be granted the same amnesty that I offered Chick and Wilbur, then we could do that. Though it worries me that Kesten and the guards would have four prisoners to worry about instead of two - that changes the odds considerably."
"What say the rest of you?"
"I have a feeling that these lands are quite...wild. ... Most of the population seems to be bandits."
"Actually, there are many honest folk around here, though they are usually trappers, hunters, and small homesteaders. They seem to lead a fairly lonely life out here."
"Waging a war of extermination on banditry will only serve to push them ever farther back..."
"I understand what you are saying Alia, but when we said we were 'striving against banditry' we were not suggesting that it was our duty to rid the world of the crime. If through our actions, the surviving bandits are pushed back all the way to Mivon, well then, the authorities in Mivon can deal with what is left as they choose."
"To really combat banditry, you need to make bandits WANT to not be bandits any more. Such as by offering them a place in society that is superior to what they have now."
"Again, I agree in principle Alia, but what you are suggesting does not achieve this. Did it never occur to you that the type of menial jobs you think to offer them are exactly the kinds of lives that many of them were trying to escape by becoming bandits?"
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"Faeria .... Let her work for Kesten directly, without her spellbook."
"As far as Faeria goes, I do not suggest that what has happened is her fault, Alia. Her madness is tragic, but does not make her a villain in and of itself. But we know she has done bad things under its influence, and we cannot remove that influence, nor can we predict what things it drives her to do."
"Hmmm..." Numalar turns to Sir Kesten. "What do you think of Alia's proposal? Would you be willing to watch over this one?" (If Kesten doesn't know, Numalar fills him in on what the situation regarding Faeria.)
"I think we have offered the opportunity to reform to enough as it is, the others should be punished for their crimes. We are not perfect and should not attempt to be, let us get them to Restov and then get ourselves back to our mission"
"Hmmm..." Numalar turns to Sir Kesten. "What do you think of Alia's proposal? Would you be willing to watch over this one?" (If Kesten doesn't know, Numalar fills him in on what the situation regarding Faeria.)
"I'm no wizard, and quite obviously, neither are any of my men."
"What's with who?" Scarlet turns around and grins at Kressle.
[dice=Intimidate]1d20+7
Scarlet slaps Kressle, taking some kind of glee in it. "This little bandit killed our friends and tied us up. So we beat her up and we're taking her to justice. Isn't that right, Kressle?" Scarlet makes it very clear she's enjoying this.
Posh sighs and rolls his eyes as he sees the punishment she's delt and walks over to her.
"You don't need to slap her, but I'll check her bindings." Posh smiles as he checks over her bindings and makes sure that they remain tight and leans over.
"You? You don't know anything about me."
"Fear the Stag Lord? When his men came at me thinking I was some farmer's girl they could just take, I took their hands. I took their hands and watched them run off. They led me straight to him and when he saw what it was I did to them he made me one of his lieutenants and let me finish the job. Because I was strong. Because I'm a survivor."
"I know what I am. What I've been and I know what the penalty is for being it and what's the alternative. What the hell do you know?"
"How can you say that? We are the Brevic Solution. And here we are, having captured six bandits recently and killed others, not to mention the ones we dealt with before; these lands are safer now with us having passed through. The problem seems to be that the Brevic solution was not applied to these lands for too long."
"I was under the impression Brevoy wants to claim this land? In that case, you are not a solution, you are merely pushing the problem further away from Brevoy itself. Using lethal force never in history stopped crime from taking place."
"Until now, they did not expect to have to pay for their crimes at all, residing as they are in a lawless land. But any bandit knows that if they are caught by those who are stronger than them and do not fear them, that their fate will not be pleasant. They already joined these groups, knowing it could mean their death."
"But before you said they crossed over into Brevoy's territory, and the people there had grievances against them? You are telling me Brevoy would not have hanged them because they were 'residing in lawless lands' rather than citizens?"
"If they only murder people occasionally, they are still murderers."
"There's adventurers who murder people. Does that mean you're a murderer?"
"Sometimes yes also means that not everybody does it. Quite likely there's one or two sick psychopaths in a group who enjoy it and kill when they have a chance. That also means not every bandit you meet will be a murderer. It's doubtful they take turns on slitting throats when it comes to that."
"Perhaps the people of Kyonin are so forgiving. Is branding the custom there? But the people around here have had to suffer bandits for a long time. They are not likely to be merciful."
"The people of Kyonin are used to think on a grander scale of time. Any solution that is but a temporary fix for a problem just makes the problem come back later. Humans may not care, as those who govern will be dead by then. Elves do. Branding was merely a suggestion that would mark them as what they are so they can be easily identified in the future."
"A brand does indeed warn ordinary folk that a person is dangerous. But the people around here already distrust strangers. And it poses little risk to one who would return to banditry, since bandits do not hide who they are or what they do. All that you have changed is that a bandit faces death on his second offence instead of his first."
"The idea is not to warn ordinary folk. The idea is to identify them. And yes, that change would have more impact than you'd think. As you said, so far, most of these bandits in these lands did not have to face any consequences for their deeds. Showing that there is a chance for redemption may make many of them reconsider, when the other option is the noose. If they know there is nothing but death for them, then don't expect any of them to cooperate in the future, or even give up rather than fight to the death."
"There are no such ventures out here. There are no mines, no lumber camps, no roads being built. Only a few trappers and hunters and the occasional farmhouse. And all of those people are like to have grudges against the bandits in these parts, who have preyed on them for who knows how long."
"Then request such an institution from your sponsors. They want to bring civilization into these lands? Then they will need roads, lumber, quarries...having former bandits work in these may even turn a profit that can be used to pay for the guards overseeing their work. Or would they rather throw away free workforce and the lives of people who could become good citizens given time and guidance? Surely your sponsors would not be so short-sighted?"
"Right now, we are on the way to Restov, and do not have the time. By the time we return their trail will be long gone. And in future, we do not have the time to spend our lives following trails left by those who might rejoin a bandit group that we don't know about. We would have to release them one at a time in case they split up, and hold the others until we could return to begin tracking them."
"I do not speak for you, Alia, but dealing with bandits is not our primary mission, and I don't believe it is yours either. I for one am not going to spend my life tracking every pardoned bandit with the intent of catching him when he reoffends."
"No, if we release them we should feel confident that they have reformed. And we cannot say that now, brand or no."
"Obviously we would only release them upon our return from Restov, claiming to have gotten a pardon for them there. As for bandits not being your mission: You just told me you are the brevoyan solution to banditry. You told me you are the answer to the problems, but it's not a priority? If Brevoy takes things so lightly, I don't understand why the judgement needs to be so fatal."
"If we agree that Verdigris and Golden Boy here should be granted the same amnesty that I offered Chick and Wilbur, then we could do that. Though it worries me that Kesten and the guards would have four prisoners to worry about instead of two - that changes the odds considerably."
"What say the rest of you?"
"It is not my decision to make. My opinion on the matter is clear, nobody should be killed simply because they are an inconvenience."
"Actually, there are many honest folk around here, though they are usually trappers, hunters, and small homesteaders. They seem to lead a fairly lonely life out here."
"Are there? During my travels, I have seen none south of this road. If there's indeed such people, they must be very brave to do their work in these lawless lands. Assuming, of course, they are not just bandits claiming to be trappers or hunters."
"I understand what you are saying Alia, but when we said we were 'striving against banditry' we were not suggesting that it was our duty to rid the world of the crime. If through our actions, the surviving bandits are pushed back all the way to Mivon, well then, the authorities in Mivon can deal with what is left as they choose."
"And when Brevoy claims this land, then instead of Brevoy, these lands will be plagued by Bandits spilling over it's borders. I apologize for feeling strongly about this, but right now I have quite a reason to desire ridding at least these lands of all it's criminal leaders, lest what happened to me and Scarlet happens to others."
"Again, I agree in principle Alia, but what you are suggesting does not achieve this. Did it never occur to you that the type of menial jobs you think to offer them are exactly the kinds of lives that many of them were trying to escape by becoming bandits?"
"It occured to me, and it may have been a easy choice to make when there was nothing to fear for making it. Now that there will be a semblence of law in these lands, and consequences, they may not make the choice as easily if confronted with the alternative."
"You? You don't know anything about me."
"Fear the Stag Lord? When his men came at me thinking I was some farmer's girl they could just take, I took their hands. I took their hands and watched them run off. They led me straight to him and when he saw what it was I did to them he made me one of his lieutenants and let me finish the job. Because I was strong. Because I'm a survivor."
"I know what I am. What I've been and I know what the penalty is for being it and what's the alternative. What the hell do you know?"
Posh nods understandingly.
"more than you think." he states flatly "An alternative is you can hunt down bandits, make it so that what happened to you will never happen to anyone ever again."
"You think someone tryin' to rape me made me what I am?" She laughs. "There weren't nothin' new in that. Me, mom and my old man traveled the whole of the River Kingdoms. I was shakin' down pilgrims and merchants when I was shorter than you. You have what you can hold."
"Good times." Says Pip, wistfully.
"You think someone tryin' to rape me made me what I am?" She laughs. "There weren't nothin' new in that. Me, mom and my old man traveled the whole of the River Kingdoms. I was shakin' down pilgrims and merchants when I was shorter than you. You have what you can hold."
Scarlet shakes her head. "Your folks failed ya. Dragged you into the gutter with 'em instead of pushing you onto the road to success." Scarlet turns to get on her horse. "Posh, she's a warrior. She knows damn well where we're goin' and what's gonna happen. Honestly, I think she would have preferred bleeding out back in that camp. If only her-"
Scarlet trails off. "I've had that moment plenty of times. When the world tried to crush me, to pervert me for who I am." She tugs at her hair. "My brother kept me on the right path. Even when it was so easy to dive into the gutter and say 'this is what the world wants me to do!' If it weren't for him." Scarlet exhales deeply.
"Kressle's made up her mind. Grant her that favor, at least."
"You all bountyhunters then?"
"That, we are not. Not all of us. As Scarlet so aptly put: This woman was hunting us, had us tied up. We turned the tables on her, and now we have her tied up. So while it was her that hunted us to start with, it is us that hold her now. Any by her own words...you have what you hold. If that's worth a bit of extra coin in our pocket, thats just fair, is it not?"
"Indubitably."
"Friends we must be off our contact at Nivatkas crossing is waiting for the delivery of these prisoners to the holding cells and we are passed due as it is. Goodbye friend, it was nice meeting you."
Zokon directs the prisoners cloest to him forward
"Be seeing you." The troll says making a small salute as you pass.
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"I was under the impression Brevoy wants to claim this land? "
"Brevoy indeed claims this land, though it does not govern it. This is why the land is known as the 'Stolen Lands.' Of course, other nations around, such as Mivon and Pitax also consider these lands to have been 'Stolen' from them. Perhaps they are not the only ones; maybe even Kyonin considers itself to have a claim here. However, even without such a claim we are closer to Brevoy here than to any other nation."
"In that case, you are not a solution, you are merely pushing the problem further away from Brevoy itself."
"Well, of the sixteen bandits we have encountered so far, one escaped. So you could say that we are pushing the problem further away, but that problem is now 1/16th the size it was. And perhaps, that last bandit, having fled for his life, might now consider another career."
"Using lethal force never in history stopped crime from taking place."
Numalar looks at Alia strangely for a moment, then laughs.
"Hah! That is good! So you know what path the life of every executed criminal would have taken, had they not been executed? You can say for certain that sparing every man sentenced to death would guarantee they did not reoffend?"
Numalar shakes his head. "No, no, lass. It is impossible to claim knowledge of what might have been if things went differently. I do not care for the death penalty myself, but any crimes that the condemned might commit in the future are prevented by it, and those who witness this punishment think twice before doing the same thing. I have lived among humans for 70-odd years now, and they accept this truth."
"Even if you are suggesting that nobody is deterred from crime in a land where the death penalty exists, I would have to say that you are wrong in this. It clearly does not deter everyone, but it deters some. In the meantime, if a bandit must only ask for mercy in order to be set free the first time they are caught, would not the knowledge of this embolden those who were considering turning to this crime?"
"I think you believe that the root causes of crime are not addressed by punishing criminals. I agree. I believe that to reduce the impluse for crime, a nation must work towards ensuring the well-being and prosperity of its citizens. A contented man with a full belly is less likely to steal."
"But we are not talking about how to engineer society here; we are talking about how we can be sure to prevent Golden Boy and Verdigris here from turning to banditry again. And without the ability to see into their hearts, we cannot know if they truly repent or not."
"You are telling me Brevoy would not have hanged them because they were 'residing in lawless lands' rather than citizens?"
"No, lass. Only that operating out of this lawless land made them much harder to catch. If someone was caught within the borders of civilized lands they would suffer the same fate as any other."
"If they only murder people occasionally, they are still murderers.""There's adventurers who murder people. Does that mean you're a murderer?"
Numalar frowns, and his eyes go cold. "Tread carefully, Friend. If you mean to accuse me of being a murderer, speak plainly. Otherwise, mind what you say."
"Sometimes yes also means that not everybody does it."
"I really fail to see how that matters. If four men stand and watch while a fifth slits a man's throat, and then the five of them share the contents of the dead man's purse, then the other four are accomplices to murder and share the guilt. The penalty for being an accomplice to murder is also death in these lands."
"The people of Kyonin are used to think on a grander scale of time. Any solution that is but a temporary fix...."
"Among people as long-lived as Elves, I can see how you would want to take the long view. But humans want change in their lifetime. They want it right away. And they do consider death to be a permanent solution."
"Which also means you don't have to brand their face, or a clearly visibly spot..."
"Hmmm... I think you are talking now about something other than what I imagined you meant. But if it is a secret sign known only to us, then why bother branding them at all? Why not just remember what they look like? We are only talking about two people."
"There are no such ventures out here....""Then request such an institution from your sponsors...."
Numalar's eyebrows go up.
"Request that they build some venture to allow criminals to rehabilitate? It is our sponsors' idea that we slaughter every bandit we see, not ours.""They want to bring civilization into these lands?"
"Actually, there are many honest folk around here....""Are there? During my travels, I have seen none south of this road."
"Enough to support a trading post. They are thin on the ground, but they do exist, and there seem to be more of them than bandits, as far as I can tell. Of course, our mission has only begun and we have not surveyed widely as yet. So far most of them seem to be north and west of the trading post."
"Now that there will be a semblence of law in these lands...."
"Who says there will? We are only passing through. Perhaps others will come after us who will continue this work, or perhaps the locals will be inspired by our example and take action for themselves in these matters. But when we are finished our mission, it is quite possible that the Swordlords will go back to ignoring this land again."
"We cannot promise anyone that any enforcement will continue after we are finished here. All we can do is try to do our best right now, and what solutions we come up with must recognize that we may not always be here."
"This woman ... had us tied up... now we have her tied up."
"Indubitably."
Numalar looks at Pip and shrugs. "Heh - women, eh? A little rope and they get all excited. You know how it is." Numalar gives Pip a big smile and a wink. "Good evening to you sir." Numalar tips his hat as he rides past, trying not to look terrified of the troll.
"Brevoy indeed claims this land, though it does not govern it. This is why the land is known as the 'Stolen Lands.' Of course, other nations around, such as Mivon and Pitax also consider these lands to have been 'Stolen' from them. Perhaps they are not the only ones; maybe even Kyonin considers itself to have a claim here. However, even without such a claim we are closer to Brevoy here than to any other nation."
"See, then it is even more justified to not blindly follow the law of one nation. Your charter tells you to combat banditry, does it? Does it contract you into dealing with them a certain way, or give you freedom enough to handle situations as you see fit? Are you partners, or servants?"
"Well, of the sixteen bandits we have encountered so far, one escaped. So you could say that we are pushing the problem further away, but that problem is now 1/16th the size it was. And perhaps, that last bandit, having fled for his life, might now consider another career."
"Assuming, of course, that nobody takes up the profession of banditry. Soldiers get killed in battle all the time, but somehow there seems to be a steady supply of people to get killed in wars. If you kill all the bandits now in these lands, then there will be no need to pay much for guards when a gold-ladden merchant travels through them. Now guess what kind of idea that may give to people. You just created 15 vacancies in that career, and some of those hunters or trappers you mentioned may well take the opportunity to earn a bit on the side."
Numalar looks at Alia strangely for a moment, then laughs.
"Hah! That is good! So you know what path the life of every executed criminal would have taken, had they not been executed? You can say for certain that sparing every man sentenced to death would guarantee they did not reoffend?"
"Of course not. But just the same, you cannot claim they would commit crimes again, you cannot know if they would re-offend. Thats the whole idea...we do not know, and still kill them on the chance they will."
Numalar shakes his head. "No, no, lass. It is impossible to claim knowledge of what might have been if things went differently. I do not care for the death penalty myself, but any crimes that the condemned might commit in the future are prevented by it, and those who witness this punishment think twice before doing the same thing. I have lived among humans for 70-odd years now, and they accept this truth."
"Even if you are suggesting that nobody is deterred from crime in a land where the death penalty exists, I would have to say that you are wrong in this. It clearly does not deter everyone, but it deters some. In the meantime, if a bandit must only ask for mercy in order to be set free the first time they are caught, would not the knowledge of this embolden those who were considering turning to this crime?"
"You prevent all crimes that the condemned may commit in the future. You also prevent everything else he may do, such as saving a life, becoming father of a great thinker, reforming others who strayed from the path."
"That is exactly what I am suggesting. You may think I'm wrong, but I've had my fair share of years to learn about the world, too. As for the mercyful handling encouraging people to try it: While everybody should be allowed to slip up at least once in their life, by no means would that need to be a permanent way of handling things. But right now, banditry is rampant in these lands...you say yourself that you run into 16 bandits. In how many encounters with them? How many others did you meet? The idea is to give those a chance to reform who already picked up the profession...because they are currently in a majority here over those who would consider turning to it. As you said, this was a lawless land before, and there were no repercussions to fear...so everybody who wanted to be a bandit, already is, most likely."
"I think you believe that the root causes of crime are not addressed by punishing criminals. I agree. I believe that to reduce the impluse for crime, a nation must work towards ensuring the well-being and prosperity of its citizens. A contented man with a full belly is less likely to steal."
"But we are not talking about how to engineer society here; we are talking about how we can be sure to prevent Golden Boy and Verdigris here from turning to banditry again. And without the ability to see into their hearts, we cannot know if they truly repent or not."
"I am glad you agree on that. As for our specific problem: Ask the priest. I know the church has ways of enforcing certain courses of action. Maybe he, or his superiors are willing to help, he didn't seem keen on performing a funeral. Besides, you cannot know this of Wilbur and Chuck, either. They surrendered, but that is all they have going for them over Verdigris and Golden Boy. How can you be sure they won't turn back to banditry? Can you see in their hearts? Promise on your life that they will be good people henceforth?"
"No, lass. Only that operating out of this lawless land made them much harder to catch. If someone was caught within the borders of civilized lands they would suffer the same fate as any other."
"Exactly, so they crossed over into the territory of Brevoy KNOWING they would be killed if caught. They also knew that Brevoy may send out people to kill them. Death was the only option they saw, so death may be how they tried to limit the reports of crimes to delay any action on part of Brevoy"
Numalar frowns, and his eyes go cold. "Tread carefully, Friend. If you mean to accuse me of being a murderer, speak plainly. Otherwise, mind what you say."
"I accuse you of generalization, and I see you understand it. If one Adventurer murders someone, that does not make all Adventurers murderers. If a bandit in a group murders someone, that does not make all bandits murderers.
"I really fail to see how that matters. If four men stand and watch while a fifth slits a man's throat, and then the five of them share the contents of the dead man's purse, then the other four are accomplices to murder and share the guilt. The penalty for being an accomplice to murder is also death in these lands."
"If there is a blood-thirsty leader like Kressle, do you think it would be a good idea for a lowly bandit to speak up against her? It doesn't even mean every bandit approves of killing when it takes place. Or should he just tell her he wants to quit the job? How would that go for him? So just saying that every bandit is a murderer because sometimes bandits murder people is a false conclusion, and you know it."
"Among people as long-lived as Elves, I can see how you would want to take the long view. But humans want change in their lifetime. They want it right away. And they do consider death to be a permanent solution."
"Oh, a permanent solution it is. But that contradicts their own wishes, because death prevents change. Which is what they wish for. Permanent solutions are usually final...which will not let one adapt to the circumstances. Which makes them bad, in the long run. I would expect you would prefer a grander view of things than Brevoy, too, or do I err?"
"Hmmm... I think you are talking now about something other than what I imagined you meant. But if it is a secret sign known only to us, then why bother branding them at all? Why not just remember what they look like? We are only talking about two people."
"Because there may be more in the future, because they may change their looks, shaving or growing a beard, cutting or growing their hair, claiming it was their brother you had last time. Also because there's other groups working in these lands, and other people may get a hold of criminals...a merchants guards, for example. I am not talking about a secret sign, I'm talking about a sign not plainly showcasing them as criminals to everybody they meet. While the farmer may demand he show them before hiring them as farmhand, the other people he will interact with in the village or a city will treat them normally. But if they are caught comitting a crime, it's a easy think to check if they are reoffenders...for us or others."
Numalar's eyebrows go up.
"Request that they build some venture to allow criminals to rehabilitate? It is our sponsors' idea that we slaughter every bandit we see, not ours."
"Because slaughter is the easier solution, the simpler one. The short-sighted one. Brevoy seems to care less about this land, and more about Brevoy." *Alia sighs*
Okay, out of character, you are jumping ahead here. We have very little evidence that this is their desire. We know as players that this the eventual goal, but our characters do not.
"Enough to support a trading post. They are thin on the ground, but they do exist, and there seem to be more of them than bandits, as far as I can tell. Of course, our mission has only begun and we have not surveyed widely as yet. So far most of them seem to be north and west of the trading post."
"A trading post, that, as I heard, was forced to pay tribute to the bandits? It does seem like a rather lawless land, then. With plenty enough bandits. They may be the minority, but the ratio of normal population to bandits is not something that would make me feel comfortable if I lived here-"
"Who says there will? We are only passing through. Perhaps others will come after us who will continue this work, or perhaps the locals will be inspired by our example and take action for themselves in these matters. But when we are finished our mission, it is quite possible that the Swordlords will go back to ignoring this land again."
"We cannot promise anyone that any enforcement will continue after we are finished here. All we can do is try to do our best right now, and what solutions we come up with must recognize that we may not always be here."
"You truly think that? That all Brevoy is interested in is cartographing these lands....for science? And cleaning out some bandits because they trouble their borders? In a backyard area they claim should belong to them? I was under the impression that these actions speak of grander plans. You are just passing through, and doing the work for them. But if everything here is properly mapped and the bandits taken care of, Brevoy will not just ignore these lands. Otherwise they could have sent an army group to burn down all the bandit camps they can find in the region and be done with it. No, I think Brevoy is just using you to do their work for them, preparing this land for expansion."
"Be seeing you." The troll says making a small salute as you pass.
Scarlet nods to Pip. "May we meet again, Pip. Stay safe." She waves at him before riding off.
Passing on, you reach the sleepy hamlet of Nivatka's Crossing, South Rostland Road, a branching perpendicular road, a dozen structures and some surrounding farms. Most of you would have passed through it before once, but the community is small enough that it might have gone unnoticed.
The farms along the road you pass are all up in arms. Torch-wielding groups of farmers wander the lanes in threes and fours. The word is that trolls are about and up to no good. A bunch of them had apparently broken into a local barn scattering the owner's horses.
In town the local tavern/general store a Soyev's Sundown Sundries sees a brief whirl of activity before finally growing calm enough that the awkward night girl can finally see you at the bar/reception desk.
"Hello, can I help you?"
"You think someone tryin' to rape me made me what I am?" She laughs. "There weren't nothin' new in that. Me, mom and my old man traveled the whole of the River Kingdoms. I was shakin' down pilgrims and merchants when I was shorter than you. You have what you can hold."
"I hope the Gods are kind to you because I'm afraid you've lost my sympathy." Posh states as he reaches for his dagger but stops himself short. "People can change. If only given the chance."
"You think someone tryin' to rape me made me what I am?" She laughs. "There weren't nothin' new in that. Me, mom and my old man traveled the whole of the River Kingdoms. I was shakin' down pilgrims and merchants when I was shorter than you. You have what you can hold."Scarlet shakes her head. "Your folks failed ya. Dragged you into the gutter with 'em instead of pushing you onto the road to success." Scarlet turns to get on her horse. "Posh, she's a warrior. She knows damn well where we're goin' and what's gonna happen. Honestly, I think she would have preferred bleeding out back in that camp. If only her-"
Scarlet trails off. "I've had that moment plenty of times. When the world tried to crush me, to pervert me for who I am." She tugs at her hair. "My brother kept me on the right path. Even when it was so easy to dive into the gutter and say 'this is what the world wants me to do!' If it weren't for him." Scarlet exhales deeply.
"You had a wonderful brother. He sounds like someone I once knew." he gives a knowing smile "Mind if I ask...what happened to your brother?"
"Hello, can I help you?"
"Hello there!" Posh states after they have arrived in this little town. "My name is Poshment Underhill. We are back from the south to clean up some bandits and we have a few here to be sentenced for their crimes."
"We don't get many bountyhunters here. Did you want something to drink or maybe a room?"
"What do you have for purchase please? I'd suggest we need 2 or 3 rooms at least depending on size, I'll let each who wishes order their own meal so two meals for me, I owe someone."
"We're not really bounty hunters we're...err...hmm..." Posh stops for a moment as he ponders "Well eitherway, I feel quite tired from this long days ride and wouldn't mind getting a meal or two."
"There's a big common room if you'd like to stay together. As for food and drink it's all pretty standard fare. What would you like?"
Hearing Zokon place his order, Alia nods towards him approvingly, then speaks up herself: "Have you got something spicy to drink? After those past few days I think I could use something a bit stronger than usual. As for the meal, whatever is still available at this hour will do for me. Bread and Cheese, maybe? Regarding the room, considering we are travelling with...company, I believe the common room would be our best choice...are there others already or would we be by ourselves in it?"
Having said that, Alia looks at the others present to see wether they would agree with her choice.
"You had a wonderful brother. He sounds like someone I once knew." he gives a knowing smile "Mind if I ask...what happened to your brother?"
"Oh, BB?" Scarlet grumbles to herself. "I don't know, actually. Lost track of him after my last...er, sojourn. Sometimes I just need to take a break from everyone. He's always been there for me. Even when it would have been easy just to leave me off." Scarlet laughs.
"But yeah, he left the old Company, so I left it to look for him. Money ran short, so I took a job escorting Alia. Well, you know what happened from there. So if you ever see a blue-skinned dwarf who love beetles for some reason, let me know."
Regarding the room, considering we are travelling with...company, I believe the common room would be our best choice...are there others already or would we be by ourselves in it?"
"Sounds fine by me." She turns to the receptionist and hands her a gold coin. "Name's Scarlet. I hope this covers our stay for the night."
"Sounds fine by me." She turns to the receptionist and hands her a gold coin. "Name's Scarlet. I hope this covers our stay for the night."
"Well, it covers yours. Its 5sp for the room (3sp if your sleeping in the common room) and 3sp for the meal, another 2sp gets you a pitcher of the local wine if you want."
Hearing Zokon place his order, Alia nods towards him approvingly, then speaks up herself: "Have you got something spicy to drink? After those past few days I think I could use something a bit stronger than usual. As for the meal, whatever is still available at this hour will do for me. Bread and Cheese, maybe? Regarding the room, considering we are travelling with...company, I believe the common room would be our best choice...are there others already or would we be by ourselves in it?"
Having said that, Alia looks at the others present to see wether they would agree with her choice.
"We've got a couple of large common rooms only one of them has guests right now so you could crowd into the other. It's a party of ten, right? We carry Talanova it's a local Brevic wine and pretty bracing. I don't know that we have anything 'spicy' though. The cook's already awake. He can make you whatever want but we do have bread and cheese as well."
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"See, then it is even more justified to not blindly follow the law of one nation. Your charter tells you to combat banditry, does it? Does it contract you into dealing with them a certain way, or give you freedom enough to handle situations as you see fit? Are you partners, or servants?"
Numalar smiles wanly, and pauses a moment before speaking.
"I suppose I would prefer the word 'vassal,' but... yes Alia, we are servants of the Swordlords of Restov. We are in their employ, we signed their charter, and are obligated to work their will. So yes, the Law of Brevoy is also our law, like it or not. It may not apply to you, but for our purposes, the laws of any other nation are irrelevant, though to be fair the laws of other nations around here are not much different to that of Brevoy.""Assuming, of course, that nobody takes up the profession of banditry."
"Would you be so quick to take up a profession that got your predecessor killed? Alia, your argument has a great many 'what ifs.' Understand that this goes both ways; you could equally say that someone who is currently a bandit, upon seeing the numbers of his fellows so diminished, might decide to find another vocation."
"You seem to feel that law-abiding citizens will quickly turn to crime when the opportunity arises, yet you feel that people who are already criminals will reform and become law-abiding citizens if given the chance. You cannot have it both ways."
"Soldiers get killed in battle all the time, but somehow there seems to be a steady supply of people to get killed in wars."
Numalar smiles. "Not always. Sometimes, when a war gets bloody, a nation starts to run out of young men to send to the front. It's ugly, but it's one way to win a war, and it does happen."
"You can say for certain that sparing every man sentenced to death would guarantee they did not reoffend?""Of course not. But just the same, you cannot claim they would commit crimes again, you cannot know if they would re-offend."
"I make no such claim, nor do I need to," Numalar smiles. "It was you were the one that said that executions never prevented crime. If a single executed man would have reoffended if spared, then your statement is incorrect. Throughout history, how many people have been executed? Thousands? Tens of thousands? A hundred thousand? Perhaps even a million? I think I can safely say that some of those people would have committed more crimes if pardoned, and therefore, their execution did prevent crime."
"You also prevent everything else he may do...."
"People die all the time, Alia, and you could say this about any one of them. Yes, it is tragic, and I mourn a life taken too soon, but it is the way of the world. Life goes on."
"But right now, banditry is rampant in these lands..."
"It is certainly enough of a problem that the Swordlords added it to our mission of exploration. But to answer your questions specifically, the sixteen bandits we encountered came from two separate groups. Ten from the group that captured you and six from another group we encoutnered at Oleg's, who were also under Kressle's command. So the sixteen were all part of one gang. We have encountered no others so far."
"As you said, this was a lawless land before, and there were no repercussions to fear...so everybody who wanted to be a bandit, already is, most likely."
"If that is the case then we need not concern ourselves with those who might become bandits then, do we?"
"I am glad you agree on that. As for our specific problem: Ask the priest. I know the church has ways of enforcing certain courses of action."
"Yes, and sorcerers and wizards too. For arcane magicians it is called geas, while for priests it is called quest, but they amount to the same thing. However, such spells do not last forever; at best a couple weeks or so."
"Besides, you cannot know this of Wilbur and Chuck, either. They surrendered, but that is all they have going for them over Verdigris and Golden Boy. How can you be sure they won't turn back to banditry? "
"I cannot be certain, Alia. But we have three months to get to know them. And the difference is that they asked for mercy, when they could have fought us. They took the first step towards repentance of their own free will. You may recall, Alia, that when we first attacked the camp we called out for their surrender. This was before you had escaped your bonds. If any of these men wanted to be free of Kressle or quit their life of banditry that would have been the perfect time to turn against her. But they stood and fought. If they chose to die rather than be captured, why should you interfere with their choice?"
"Death was the only option they saw, so death may be how they tried to limit the reports of crimes to delay any action on part of Brevoy."
"Bandits don't generally try to hide their crimes because a fearsome reputation is an asset to them. If an untested bandit gang tries to waylay some travellers, they may resist or try to test the bandits. Then the bandits are forced to do something horrible. But once you have established an evil reputation, your victims are more likely to surrender without a fight. It has nothing to do with trying to conceal your crimes. Besides, the bodies we found were clearly marked as victims of the Stag Lord, so he surely does not mind people knowing he is a murderer."
"I accuse you of generalization, and I see you understand it. If one Adventurer murders someone, that does not make all Adventurers murderers."
"No, Alia, if you think I am generalizing, you misunderstand. If one adventurer is a murderer, that does not make all adventurers murderers, but if an advenurer commits murder while his companions stand around and watch, and his companions share in the rewards of that killing, then I do not place the blame on only the one who did the killing. The rest are complicit in that crime, and the same applies to bandits."
"But here is a generalization that I will make: If a bandit gang is not willing to murder people, then they will not remain bandits for long. Bandits must kill those who resist or do not cooperate, or do even worse to them, in order to intimidate the rest into compliance. It is simply how the crime works."
"If there is a blood-thirsty leader like Kressle, do you think it would be a good idea for a lowly bandit to speak up against her?..."
"The bandits in Kressle's band were not chained up. If one of them wanted to quit, all he would need to do is wait for a quiet night when Kressle was asleep or not around, and slip away into the forest. The land is wide and little traveled, and would be easy to lose one's pursuers in - which is why the bandits are here in the first place. Perhaps this has already happened, and we may encounter others who were once bandits but have renounced that life. I would have no quarrel with such people."
"... because death prevents change. Which is what they wish for."
"I have no evidence that the Swordlords desire any of the kinds of social change, not of the kinds of things you are speaking of. But I would have to say that death is the greatest change of all."
"I would expect you would prefer a grander view of things than Brevoy, too, or do I err?"
"Perhaps, but what does my preference have to do with anything? I would live as they did in Valdralee if I could. But I have lived in Brevoy for some 70 years, but I am still thought of as something of an outsider. And the Brevics, as much as those of any other nation, do not care to be preached to by outsiders. There are changes that they want, but those changes have nothing to do with how criminals are punished. They care about who sits on the throne; they care about whether Rostland and Issia should be divided or united. But they do not care a penny's worth over the fate of a few bandits."
"Because there may be more in the future, because they may change their looks, shaving or growing a beard, cutting or growing their hair, claiming it was their brother you had last time."
"This does not worry me. Lady Celyne here has the means to tell with certainty whether a man is lying or not. That sort of deception, well, I don't think it will amount to much. And if someone we release lives for a long time peacefully before being driven to banditry once again, long enough that age has changed his appearance, then I would have to say that it has been long enough to judge that crime on it's own merits rather than as a repeat offence."
"Also because there's other groups working in these lands, and other people may get a hold of criminals...."
"If the secret of this brand is shared, then word will leak out. If we tattoo people's navels when they are released, pretty soon people will start demanding to see each others' navels before dealing with them. Even a pardoned criminal might give away that knowledge in a moment of indiscretion. No, if we mark people permanently we have to accept that people will be judged based on those marks."
"Because slaughter is the easier solution, the simpler one. The short-sighted one. Brevoy seems to care less about this land, and more about Brevoy." *Alia sighs*
"Simpler? Easier? Yes. You have not convinced me that it is short-sighted. But as far as they are concerned, this is Brevoy. Why should they care about any other land? They have their own problems to worry about, and can hardly be expected to carry the world on their shoulders."
"You truly think that? That all Brevoy is interested in is cartographing these lands....for science? "
"Hah! Science? No, the Brevics would not give you two dead rats for the sake of science. The Swordlords did not deign to share their plans with us, but the most logical reason is that they hope to open a new trade route through to Mivon."
"Right now, virtually all of Brevoy's foreign trade with the south passes up the East Sellen River to New Stetven. If the merchants of Restov want access to foreign goods (and let me tell you that most Brevoyan goods are nothing to write home about), they need to deal with the middlemen in New Stetven. And New Stetven and Restov are not favorably disposed towards one another. A trade route through here would allow Restov direct access to foreign goods and even allow them to compete with New stetven for markets in Rostland."
"If you were founding a trade route you would want to reduce the power of the area's bandits. But you would not need to civilize these lands to do that; you just need a narrow path that is well-charted."
"This land has a... reputation. One for being wild and untamable. Many have tried to settle it over the years and for some reason these colonies always fail."
-----
"Friends, let us get our own room rather than share space with others. We may wish to speak privately. "
The farms along the road you pass are all up in arms. Torch-wielding groups of farmers wander the lanes in threes and fours. The word is that trolls are about and up to no good. A bunch of them had apparently broken into a local barn scattering the owner's horses.
If we feared to area the trolls, how will these farmers fare?
"But in the mean time, if the people of this area are going out to chase some trolls, I feel we should help. Perhaps we should speak to the local constabulary; we could offer to help in the chase if they could watch our 'guests.' The farmers could use our help, and if organized in large groups they would have a real chance."
Numalar smiles wanly, and pauses a moment before speaking.
"I suppose I would prefer the word 'vassal,' but... yes Alia, we are servants of the Swordlords of Restov. We are in their employ, we signed their charter, and are obligated to work their will. So yes, the Law of Brevoy is also our law, like it or not. It may not apply to you, but for our purposes, the laws of any other nation are irrelevant, though to be fair the laws of other nations around here are not much different to that of Brevoy."
"So they keep you leashed that way? I had expected you would be given more liberty, seeing how the group seems to be composed of individuals rather than government agents. But I assume it makes sense to keep you under control, lest some of those agents would act in what THEY think is the best course of action, rather than following Brevoy's wishes."
"Would you be so quick to take up a profession that got your predecessor killed? Alia, your argument has a great many 'what ifs.' Understand that this goes both ways; you could equally say that someone who is currently a bandit, upon seeing the numbers of his fellows so diminished, might decide to find another vocation."
Alia laughs, in a sad, sarcastic way:"I'm still here, am I not? Planning to find that ancient hold rather than flee back home. And if I was killed, others would take my place, and come to investigate, despite that task having claimed the lives of my whole group, then. My argument is not so much having "what if's" as it is "when's". And in the world at large, there always seem to be enough criminals to fill in for those brought to justice.
"You seem to feel that law-abiding citizens will quickly turn to crime when the opportunity arises, yet you feel that people who are already criminals will reform and become law-abiding citizens if given the chance. You cannot have it both ways."
"Oh, I can. Because it's all about balance. If there is too many rabbits, the wolf population will grow and eat them. If there's too few rabbits, the wolfs population slims down for lack of food. It's no different with bandits. We're a new player in this game, hunting the wolves. So some wolves may well decide they would rather be rabbits instead. But only if that means we will no longer hunt them down."
Numalar smiles. "Not always. Sometimes, when a war gets bloody, a nation starts to run out of young men to send to the front. It's ugly, but it's one way to win a war, and it does happen."
"And 20 years later, they are still out of young man? Have no army? Cannot wage wars? No, they replenish quickly, and wage yet more wars. Only to have more people killed in a back-and-forth of shifting alliances and fronts."
"I make no such claim, nor do I need to," Numalar smiles. "It was you were the one that said that executions never prevented crime. If a single executed man would have reoffended if spared, then your statement is incorrect. Throughout history, how many people have been executed? Thousands? Tens of thousands? A hundred thousand? Perhaps even a million? I think I can safely say that some of those people would have committed more crimes if pardoned, and therefore, their execution did prevent crime."
"By that logic, you would do well to execute random people on the street. You would prevent crime that way, too. If you truly think executing a dozen man to kill one who would commit crimes again is justice, then one may as well prevent crime by executing random citizens, because chances are, some of them will be criminals sooner or later."
"People die all the time, Alia, and you could say this about any one of them. Yes, it is tragic, and I mourn a life taken too soon, but it is the way of the world. Life goes on."
"They do, but I want no part in hastening their demise if it can be helped. In their camp, I was angry, I was unwilling to help them. They were stricken down in battle, and I would have let them die, there. But you decided to save their lifes, only to have them hanged now. That is not in self-defense, that is just....weird, saving someone so you can have them killed later."
Hey, out of character, I totally get it. IRL I am totally opposed to the death penalty. But you are talking about modern real-world experience, which is something that none of our characters has access to. There are hundreds of years of social evolution ahead before societies like Brevoy or the River Kingdoms abandon the death penalty. they are very violent places. And if you look at the history of Golarion you will see that social development progresses at a much slower pace than that of Earth.
What I am doing is playing a character who has lived in societies all his life that had the death penalty and accepts it as a norm.
If you are suggesting that Kyonin has a more enlightened society then that is certainly possible (though remember that the primary deity of the elves is Calistria, who is a goddess of revenge, so I do have some doubts about that), but elves have a very different culture than that of humans.
Aye, totally understand. Thing is, what I assumed would be mirrored was that harsher penalties mean more violent crimes. I would assume that is not only a modern real-world thing, as it makes sense. The more punishment you have to fear, the more likely you don't hold back. If the punishment for murder and robbery is the same? Why not go all the way and remove a witness/someone who will complain to the authorities? Know what I mean?
As for Deities, there's a couple Elven Deities in the main pantheon...and you wouldn't expect Elves to have orgies in the streets, though, regardless of Calistria.Either way, the idea with Kyonin was that they handle things differently courtesy of the longer lives. With a childhood lasting longer than other races whole lifespan, one is bound to have a different view on things...I picked a more "calm" one, of mending things instead of escalating them. Slow, steady and natural. But as said, reoffenders would get killed on the spot, so yeah, not a totally enlightened society either ;)
"It is certainly enough of a problem that the Swordlords added it to our mission of exploration. But to answer your questions specifically, the sixteen bandits we encountered came from two separate groups. Ten from the group that captured you and six from another group we encoutnered at Oleg's, who were also under Kressle's command. So the sixteen were all part of one gang. We have encountered no others so far."
"I rather meant, how many other people have you encountered in these lands? Civilians? You met 16 bandits, and how many non-bandits, south of the road?"
"If that is the case then we need not concern ourselves with those who might become bandits then, do we?"
"No, we need not. Though it was you who brought up that a punishment that is not final may embolden civilians to take up banditry, so I am glad that you agree that will not be a problem."
Spellcraft: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (15) + 7 = 22
I assume that's good enough to know about geas/quest spells. Lesser geas would be good enough since the victims are surely less than 7HD. But for both lesser and regular spells the duration is 1 day per level, so they're not permanent, and they can't be made permanent with permanency. In older editions of D&D geas/quest did last forever, but I suppose they thought that was too powerful."Yes, and sorcerers and wizards too. For arcane magicians it is called geas, while for priests it is called quest, but they amount to the same thing. However, such spells do not last forever; at best a couple weeks or so."
"I was under the impression they have more lasting ways of handling this. It would seem I was wrong. Divine magics, I never was too good at."
"I cannot be certain, Alia. But we have three months to get to know them. And the difference is that they asked for mercy, when they could have fought us. They took the first step towards repentance of their own free will. You may recall, Alia, that when we first attacked the camp we called out for their surrender. This was before you had escaped your bonds. If any of these men wanted to be free of Kressle or quit their life of banditry that would have been the perfect time to turn against her. But they stood and fought. If they chose to die rather than be captured, why should you interfere with their choice?"
"And those two asked for mercy when they had superior numbers and the tactical advantage? Or did they surrender when defeat was imminent? As fot the others, it was not me who interfered...I had no part in saving those wounded. And that whole skirmish was less than a minute of lenght before they all were bloodied and unconscious. Barely much time to consider options, is it? I believe if someone where to raid your camp, your first instinct is to defend yourself, too. The other two, they where on a raid, not on their home turf. A whole different situation for them. When you had them in custody, they all cooperated the same when Kesten interrogated them. I think they should all have the same second chance, or they should all hang."
"Bandits don't generally try to hide their crimes because a fearsome reputation is an asset to them. If an untested bandit gang tries to waylay some travellers, they may resist or try to test the bandits. Then the bandits are forced to do something horrible. But once you have established an evil reputation, your victims are more likely to surrender without a fight. It has nothing to do with trying to conceal your crimes. Besides, the bodies we found were clearly marked as victims of the Stag Lord, so he surely does not mind people knowing he is a murderer."
"The Stag Lord, yes. Others, not so much. Because you only look at it from one side: If a bandit gang has a reputation for murdering their victims, and they waylay you...will you lay down your arms and hand over your valuables? Or will you fight, knowing you will die anyway? Also, having that fearsome reputation will prompt authorities to act against you, lest they are seen as unable to protect their own subjects. Staying hidden and unknown has it's advantages for bandits. The Stag Lord? He's no ordinary bandit, the way he leaves messages and displays his presence, one would think he considers himself ruler of this land. Hence the "Lord"."
"No, Alia, if you think I am generalizing, you misunderstand. If one adventurer is a murderer, that does not make all adventurers murderers, but if an advenurer commits murder while his companions stand around and watch, and his companions share in the rewards of that killing, then I do not place the blame on only the one who did the killing. The rest are complicit in that crime, and the same applies to bandits."
"That is generalization, when there is no difference made. No matter if they did the deed, they are all guilty. So following that train of thought, surely Wilbur and Chuck are also guilty of being complicit of murder, as I doubt Kressle just recently developed that part of her personality. They should hang too, then, for taking part in it? They have have offered surrender, but they are accomplices in murder nonetheless, which by your own words makes them as guilty as verdi and goldi."
"But here is a generalization that I will make: If a bandit gang is not willing to murder people, then they will not remain bandits for long. Bandits must kill those who resist or do not cooperate, or do even worse to them, in order to intimidate the rest into compliance. It is simply how the crime works."
"That same thing can also be said about a City Guard, yet there's many towns where they don't have to kill people for a long time. The idea is to be willing to do it, but making sure you are not forced to do it. When things go from bad to worse and fighting starts, everybody could be killed. That includes the bandits. Obviously, it would be much more preferable for them to strike in such a way that the enemy has no realistic chance to fight back, and will give up. Thats what waylaying is all about, is it not? Ambushing travellers and threatening them in a way that makes resistance lethal, in order to prevent killing anyone on either side."
"The bandits in Kressle's band were not chained up. If one of them wanted to quit, all he would need to do is wait for a quiet night when Kressle was asleep or not around, and slip away into the forest. The land is wide and little traveled, and would be easy to lose one's pursuers in - which is why the bandits are here in the first place. Perhaps this has already happened, and we may encounter others who were once bandits but have renounced that life. I would have no quarrel with such people."
"You forget that many of these may have been normal peasants, farmhands, before turning to this profession. Half of them would probably get lost in the wilderness, and the other half get eaten by local wildlife the first time they fail to make camp by themselves. If any survive regardless, they would probably end up with a white stag on their breast, having been hunted down and killed for desertion. You make it sound easy to quit this life, but I have my doubts."
"I have no evidence that the Swordlords desire any of the kinds of social change, not of the kinds of things you are speaking of. But I would have to say that death is the greatest change of all."
"It is a change, but it is a final change. Nothing changes ever again, and that is if you are lucky, because any change coming after that will only be for the worse. It leave no options open, it's course cannot be altered, and it can be undone only at immense costs. How does that fit into the image of a people who desire change and alterations at such a rapid pace as humans? Many of them are afraid of dying too early, before they have experienced enough change take place in the world around them. I understand how their restlessness made them into the most dominant species, but their motives? Not driven by thought, but by that same restlessness."
"Perhaps, but what does my preference have to do with anything? I would live as they did in Valdralee if I could. But I have lived in Brevoy for some 70 years, but I am still thought of as something of an outsider. And the Brevics, as much as those of any other nation, do not care to be preached to by outsiders. There are changes that they want, but those changes have nothing to do with how criminals are punished. They care about who sits on the throne; they care about whether Rostland and Issia should be divided or united. But they do not care a penny's worth over the fate of a few bandits."
"And because they don't care, we should. It's one way we can change how the world works. A small thing, surely, but a start. Your preferances have all to do with that, because right here, and right now, you could start making a difference. May I ask, why did you not stay in Brevoy after living for 70 years there...why did you come out here, into these wild lands, risking your life?"
"This does not worry me. Lady Celyne here has the means to tell with certainty whether a man is lying or not. That sort of deception, well, I don't think it will amount to much. And if someone we release lives for a long time peacefully before being driven to banditry once again, long enough that age has changed his appearance, then I would have to say that it has been long enough to judge that crime on it's own merits rather than as a repeat offence."
"With certainity, is it? I have heared of several ways to undo that kind of magics, so you should not rely on it completely. And as said, it's not just age. Give a man a month or two, to grow a beard, let him shave his head, and claim he is his own brother. More people will believe him than not."
"If the secret of this brand is shared, then word will leak out. If we tattoo people's navels when they are released, pretty soon people will start demanding to see each others' navels before dealing with them. Even a pardoned criminal might give away that knowledge in a moment of indiscretion. No, if we mark people permanently we have to accept that people will be judged based on those marks."
"And everybody who goes to buy groceries on the market will need to show their armpit every time they want to buy potatoes? Na, I think you overestimate things. As I said, obviously those people who are to employ them would have a way of knowing it. But at the same time, if they are willing to let an ex-criminal work for them, what would they have to gain from outing them? It's about letting them lead mostly normal lives, interacting with most people normally. Not all people, but most."
"Simpler? Easier? Yes. You have not convinced me that it is short-sighted. But as far as they are concerned, this is Brevoy. Why should they care about any other land? They have their own problems to worry about, and can hardly be expected to carry the world on their shoulders."
"This is wild land. Brevoy is not even the only nation laying claims to it, as I've heared. If they make a move to expand, others could well react to that. Murdering people native here, especially those knowing the land, knowing where to find supplies, hidden paths and positions for ambushes, that IS short-sighted. Because if several nations lay claim to the same land, more often than not, they don't settle their differences in an office."
"Hah! Science? No, the Brevics would not give you two dead rats for the sake of science. The Swordlords did not deign to share their plans with us, but the most logical reason is that they hope to open a new trade route through to Mivon."
"Right now, virtually all of Brevoy's foreign trade with the south passes up the East Sellen River to New Stetven. If the merchants of Restov want access to foreign goods (and let me tell you that most Brevoyan goods are nothing to write home about), they need to deal with the middlemen in New Stetven. And New Stetven and Restov are not favorably disposed towards one another. A trade route through here would allow Restov direct access to foreign goods and even allow them to compete with New stetven for markets in Rostland."
"So a trade route, you think? But you are expected to measure and explore all of these lands, are you not? Also, would that not lend itself to forced labor for road construction, rather than killing those bandits? Maybe you are right, and other...people I talked with were wrong, and Brevoy is not finally making a move to try and absorb these lands into itself."
"If you were founding a trade route you would want to reduce the power of the area's bandits. But you would not need to civilize these lands to do that; you just need a narrow path that is well-charted."
BTW, there is a reason that river trade doesn't flow down the Shrike River. But we don't know why that is yet.
"This land has a... reputation. One for being wild and untamable. Many have tried to settle it over the years and for some reason these colonies always fail."
"It is a wild and untamed land. Always was. For the elves of ancient times, it was a giant hunting ground. During our absence, younger races moved in, but they have not managed to change it's nature, wild and free. Thats also why there's ancient elven holds here, and a connection to the aiadura network. We did have a kind of...control, over these lands. Pity for your task...the map we followed was very old, but I assure you, well-charted."
Indeed that is true! But there is a big difference between someone who is sorry for the crimes they have committed, and someone who is sorry they have been caught. I would not be inclined to call the latter "repentance;" repentance is more than just a desire to evade punishment.
The road to repentance is a deep spiritual one, and I do believe in it. But while it can make a good story, I think we have a lot to do in this campaign and probably don't want to play out the "How Golden Boy came to See The Light" story on top of all the others.
Point was that Brevoy's charter obviously does allow for Criminals to be punished in a different way. If they specifically point out that killing is for unrepentant bandits, then that begs the question: what about those who do repent?
as for the different between being sorry for being caught and sorry for comitting crimes, thats modern world criminal psychology.I don't think they really differed between those in the time set we are working with here.
Someone grovels at your feet and begs your forgiveness, promising to be a good citizen henceforth, always paying his taxes and including you in his prayers to a deity of your choosing. =>Yep, he's repentent. Off to the mines with him, instead of the noose.
"I agree.. the empty common room is smaller and would just fit our group, so we COULD talk privately if need be... sounds good to me, though I was rather looking for a separate room for the ladies, this will work fine and we can watch the prisoners better as a group."
She turns to the innkeeper. "How much for a hot bath?" whatever the price, she pays a gp, with more to come if the total for common room, meal and bath comes to more than 1gp.
"Sorry for not chiming in about the prisoners, but I thought it was all being said, and didn't need more input from me. There are good points made by all, and I cannot say I disagree with any of them, but we did make our choice in this case. Perhaps in the future, we might decide differently. We shall see... until then, it's all conjecture."
"A bath sounds wonderful! I want one, too, but I'm fine with just warm water. Also, Bread and cheese will be just perfect for a meal, and I'll try the wine if that is your recommendation. Though I will need someone to share the bottle with-"
Alia glances at Celyne and Scarlet with an expecting smile.
"Sharing a bottle of wine sounds wonderful, especially if we can do so in the baths." She chuckles, and flashes Alia a smile... hoping they do have at least two tubs... "I haven't really had any truly good wine since I left home."
Zokon gives Akate 2 gold pieces and more if needed
"Beef and vegetables a good hearty meal for myself and whatever Faeria, Chick and Wilbur want for themselves, no alcohol though please, we need clear heads, and my part for the common room which seems to be the consensus"
Zokon gives Akate 2 gold pieces and more if needed"Beef and vegetables a good hearty meal for myself and whatever Faeria, Chick and Wilbur want for themselves, no alcohol though please, we need clear heads, and my part for the common room which seems to be the consensus"
"I'll get the cook on that and bring you out your meal."
"There's only one tub here, but it holds four. Did you want to eat first? The Talanova is basically what we have as far as wines, but *hic* it's pretty good."
Those have a choice of seats, there's only one other person in the place a flaxen-haired man who's been regarding you since you arrived. He's seated at a small table along the opposite wall.
"Sharing a bottle of wine sounds wonderful, especially if we can do so in the baths." She chuckles, and flashes Alia a smile... hoping they do have at least two tubs... "I haven't really had any truly good wine since I left home."
Posh smiles to himself for a moment as he looks at the two when listening to the commend.
"Anyway...yes I believe you ladies should have a room to yourself. Us rugged men can share our sweat and smells." Posh laughs at the insults to all men including himself. "So, my dear. May I ask what's your story?" Posh smiles up to Akate.