BTW this weekend I am traveling and I expect to be pretty busy on Sat and Sun. It's a last minute trip about buying a new house. Sometimes you just have to move when a place seems like the right place, and I'm not making an offer on a place I haven't seen in person.
But enough about that, I just wanted you to know. :)
Pre-mature/ advanced congrats on the house Houston? Fun an anxious times looking for new homes. My wife and I have been talking about getting a bigger place within the next year or two as well. Wish you all good fortune, in this en devour!
As for your character no worries I'll bot maybe once and we'll take it like a normal group this weekend and I'll only post once or twice as a GM so you don't fall behind. Ah...so nice to be back with a group that gives advanced warning they're not going to be able to post!
You guys spoil me!
On a side note:
I just re-wrote my entire intro/player profile page. If you have time..could a couple of you go to it and give me feedback? I'm trying to convey a sense of fun and community while also attempting to scare away Rules Lawyers and munchkins from my games.
But, as you guys have been witness too I sometimes go off..
So being I trust and respect all your opinions..don't hold back your critics or complements ..I want to get it right.
Thanks
|
Yeah, so.... who's job is it to hold the donkey's reins?
I guess it is ok if you give that job to me, seeing as I probably shouldn't be rushing into battle anyways.
I just assumed it was Jamir, since it was his donkey. But, then everyone else ran off leaving a donkey with all of their food, tents, etc, etc, etc jut wandering around on its own waiting to run away once it got spooked by a battle starting up.
um same thing has happened on a few boards no worries...Torvald ..you're in combat so have fun..!
OK so I'm going to let you guys call this one...or find the rules for me..cause I'm kinda of torn..I treated the first round of combat as a surprise round kinda..but it wasn't really..(the wolverine is already aware of you through scent and sound)..So the wolverine is heading toward battle..knowing there's some tasty treats..Myth gets off a shot then I choose to roll for initiative..
I think by RAW he does get the sneak attack cause Myth is first to shoot..(but not necessarily act remember the wolverine acted when it ran toward your group actually double moved not ran) but then Jawhar gets another action..(remember I only told him he got one) I dunno...is this creature caught off guard by Myth after already having an arrow in it and acted after it had been shot?
I think I should have just called for initiative while it was still off the board..what do u guys think? You're all GMs what would be your call? It doesn't mater a whole lot you'll survive the encounter 1 way or the other but Myth is right he could be in for a little bit of a butt sore whipping here in a second.
Think it out and let me know what you'd do...sorry I made it confusing.
|
Everyone is flatfooted until they can act in a combat (unless they have uncanny dodge or the like).
Normally just roll perception checks and initiative together, and those that perceive a threat can act in the surprise round on their initiative count.
Then go into normal combat rounds.
If they both acted in the surprise round(the actual start of combat) then who won initiative? That PC or NPC/Monster would go first and not be flatfooted, and each person comes out of the flatfooted condition on their turn.
Yeah when in doubt go with your gut and your interpretation of the rules..The Wolverine is flatfooted...thx for the input
|
|
BTW, there doesn't always have to be a surprise round, or perception checks if the groups would obviously be aware of each other from the get go. If that's the case, just roll initiative and until you act in that order, you are flatfooted.
It was pretty clear in this encounter that just Myth and the wolverine were aware of one another at the start of combat, so it was perfect that they got a surprise round to act in.
Of course once the wolverine acted in the surprise round it wasn't flatfooted anymore.
BTW, there doesn't always have to be a surprise round, or perception checks if the groups would obviously be aware of each other from the get go. If that's the case, just roll initiative and until you act in that order, you are flatfooted.
It was pretty clear in this encounter that just Myth and the wolverine were aware of one another at the start of combat, so it was perfect that they got a surprise round to act in.
Of course once the wolverine acted in the surprise round it wasn't flatfooted anymore.
Yeah I'm satisfied if you guys are..I don't need to get it all perfect..general rule if ur going to screw something up screw it up in the players favor. I just wanted to award Myth for his 25 perception so I gave him an extra shot..when I played this the GM basically "jump scared' us with this beastie.. He did a number on our hunter before we beat it down ..
Anyway thanks for the input Huston
|
I was a little concerned by all the posts when I finally got to check in this evening, so I was relieved to see that Jamir’s Initiative roll was so low that I did not hold anything up.
Jawhar, on the donkey - I admit it, I forgot. I’m happy to have Jamir take primary responsibility for the donkey, as he should, but as his main role is as a front-line melee fighter, sometimes he may toss someone else the reins and run off to stab something, calling back a request (or apology) over his shoulder.
Lia - regarding the higher tier, don’t forget: this scenario was NOT written by the author of the last two we played. That’s probably the equivalent of a 2 CR reduction per encounter right there!
Luckless, on sneak attack, I think it turned out fine.
|
|
but then Jawhar gets another action..(remember I only told him he got one)
Sorry if I misinterpreted. That is why I asked for clarification.
I thought you said that I moved during the surprise round, meaning that I had a full set of actions this round. I would be fine being moved back to the tree. I spelled out what my first actions in combat would be.
RE: Sneak Attack
I thought it was very odd that he was using sneak attack. I couldn't think of any situation where sneak attack would apply in that situation. Previous GMs definitely would have said the wolverine was no longer flat-footed.
@Jamir Like I said, it makes sense for me to be responsible for tying off the donkey. My job is to watch the battle and react. I can always choose to buff, etc while holding the reins (I just won't be able to move closer to the combat)
but then Jawhar gets another action..(remember I only told him he got one)Sorry if I misinterpreted. That is why I asked for clarification.
I thought you said that I moved during the surprise round, meaning that I had a full set of actions this round. I would be fine being moved back to the tree. I spelled out what my first actions in combat would be.
RE: Sneak Attack
I thought it was very odd that he was using sneak attack. I couldn't think of any situation where sneak attack would apply in that situation. Previous GMs definitely would have said the wolverine was no longer flat-footed.@Jamir Like I said, it makes sense for me to be responsible for tying off the donkey. My job is to watch the battle and react. I can always choose to buff, etc while holding the reins (I just won't be able to move closer to the combat)
Yeah but then u kinda take away what makes a rogue good...and I don't want to do that..sure I could say Myth's first shot caught him unaware in a surprise round and then the wolverine acted by heading for him..But then I need to break down the surprise round movement..yada yada...my only goal was to reward Myth for getting a good perception roll..then jump in to combat (with the creature on the map)...If Myth rolled a better initiative ( I think the creature had a high init mode too) well then that's too bad...it's a rogue's job to get the jump on you while you're vulnerable. So even though I didn't do it by the numbers I'm satisfied I treated the situation fairly.
That's usually enough..(but man I just GM'd a core game ..argh enough of that...)
Ok thanks for the input everyone
Myth you're going to fit right in! We talk about rules..movies and even the weather in this game LOL ask Craggark how his summer is going down in Kiwi land...(are the mosquitoes biting yet Craggark? Had a buddy went fishing on the North Island hiked up in to the mountains to go after big browns with a guide...says he got eaten alive! Although I still want to try..I live in great trout and Salmon country ...you live in the only place in the world that has better trout fishing than my area (I'm including lower British Columbia as my area too cause you know we Americans claim everything as our own! LOL)
|
The weather is lovely here. It's been well over 25 degrees for the past week (that's around 77 degrees F) and sunny. Cricket is on and the Black Caps (New Zealand national team) shutout the Pakistan team 4-0 (that's nil, here) last week. Jandals (sandals), togs (bathing suits), and ice lollies (popsicles) for everyone!
|
|
So is the snow considered "severely slippery" as opposed to "slightly slippery" as pertains to my Acrobatics check? Not questioning just trying to learn as I haven't had as much experience in cold climes other than one other scenario in which this hasn't come up before...
I'm guessing the advanced dire wolverine has a CMD of 25 and as my Acrobatics check was a 28, I'm assuming the severely slippery snow (increasing my check by 5) did me in...is that right?
So is the snow considered "severely slippery" as opposed to "slightly slippery" as pertains to my Acrobatics check? Not questioning just trying to learn as I haven't had as much experience in cold climes other than one other scenario in which this hasn't come up before...
I'm guessing the advanced dire wolverine has a CMD of 25 and as my Acrobatics check was a 28, I'm assuming the severely slippery snow (increasing my check by 5) did me in...is that right?
Since the charts don't give snow as a possible DC adjustment. I just assessed a penalty on my own..+2 or +5 are almost always my defaults..considering you have big old snowshoes wrapped around your feet trying to do acrobatics stuff it felt more like a +5 to me on this occasion....although, I've scene some circus clowns do some amazing stuff in those over-sized clown shoes.(though those shoes aren't rigid like snowshoes)
In the end, I always default to personal experience. I have been in snowshoes, and I can't imagine doing cartwheels or rolls, easily in them. Thematically, this is an instance where I'd give a racial or cultural edge, to someone raised in that environment (like Craggark or anyone from Irrisen , Lands of the Mammoth Lords ect..)
So in answer to your question, "I don't feel the snow is slippery at all. However, It does serve as an obstruction and in this case I felt that with or without snow shoes it warranted a +5 to the DC instead of +2." My ruling is predicated on; that, the snowshoes the shoes themselves hinder your steps. Likewise, without snowshoes, you'd sink in the snow and still suffer a +5 penalty to the DC of an acrobatics check. It will be one of the environmental challenges you'll have to face, in this environmentally themed adventure.
|
|
Just fyi, a character or npc/monster can't take 10 if they are distracted or in immediate danger.
Combat counts for the danger part if nothing else seems clear in a situation.
Not that it applies here, but it's interesting to note that looking for traps doesn't count as danger or distracted because you may or may not be in danger, nor does disable device on a trap count as danger, though that seems counter intutive to me. Just some fyi stuff I've encountered questions on over the years.
In other news im flying back home(boarding in one hour) and should be back to business tomorrow morning or even later tonight.
|
|
Myth, just in case it is important:
Torvald wears a gauntlet, so he threatens.
Edit: Nevermind, you can't sneak attack through concealment (without a feat)
I thought that applied to when the target had concealment, not the rogue. Attacking from concealment is one way to get sneak attack without flanking, right?
Just fyi, a character or npc/monster can't take 10 if they are distracted or in immediate danger.
Yep that's right...Just meant to say it automatically hears someone less than 51ft away (DC: 10 to hear people walking the mob has a perception of +14 so it can't get less than a '15')
I guess what I should have said is Dire Wolverine takes a '1' on perception and knows where you are.
Ok so Myth here are some relevant passages as to why you can't do what you did..it has more to do with action economy than anything.
Hope these passages help: feel free to debate this crew and as always if a relative FAQ thread is found please link it.
1. It’s impossible to use Stealth while attacking, running, or charging. ( not completely relevant because that's not what you were trying to do. But, a good reference point to start with.)
2. You can use Bluff to allow you to use Stealth. A successful Bluff check can give you the momentary diversion you need to attempt a Stealth check while people are aware of you. (this creature was right next to you completely aware of you despite concealment so in order to use stealth to move out of that square you most likely needed to distract it and get it's attention away from you so you could duck in to the mist)
3. If you’ve already successfully used Stealth at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack and then immediately use Stealth again. You take a –20 penalty on your Stealth check to maintain your obscured location. ( the relevant thing in this sniping text, is the 10ft...of distance..unless you used the bluff tactics presented up above I would use the 10ft distance as president in trying to hide again. It's tough to tell me that you're standing next to someone who wants to kill you, has his eyes on you, can see you..and you just suddenly disappear..there's feats and class abilities that allow you to treat stealth like taking a pod of invisibility..)
Anyway, there's probably a ton of stuff on this on the boards. If anyone disagrees feel free to elaborate. But, unless I get something either from RAW, errata, or FAQ...that states explicitly that, he can stealth from a know position without using bluff or class feature/feat..I'll stick to my guns on this one...Also there's the question of the AoO; even if the stealth were allowed why would he get to use stealth before the creatures immediate action of attack of opportunity? There's specific language regarding acrobatics superseding the AoO not so for stealth (and since it's done as part of the move action...the creature still gets it swipe)
No I'm afraid for this to even have a remote chance of working at least the following conditions would have to be met.
1. Move away first ( can you can use acrobatics as part of the stealth move? another interesting question..the above states only attacking , running, charging...I would tend to say yes with penalties...otherwise all the Ninja movies I watched growing up were BS!) I wouldn't assume you could stealth while you moved, (the initial move action) because you didn't bluff the creature.
2. I've moved at least 10ft away...now I can either stealth or use stealth as part of a move action.(because I have total concealment relative to him and unless he has blind sight, scent , tremorsense, or some similar ability is now unaware of my location (i could have moved to a variety of 5ft squares)
Jawhar was right it's not unusual for us to discuss rules. it's how I learn and I suspect a lot of people. Happy to have people show me where I got it wrong so I can get it right next time. This was a fun one to dive in to though thx!
lucklesshero
Just a note: I'm usually not in the habit of casting spells for my players, unless I'm boting them. However, as a time saving measure; I took it upon myself to get a little meta, knowing that you all know as well as I do that, "this is a Pathfinder scenario and it's only going to have a few encounters to burn your daily resources." Furthermore, you are days away from your final destination, so even "in character", you'd be un-likely to, "save-up resources for the BBEG".
Therefore, it's an easy call to save a day of PbP time and cast a rather meaningless uses per day ability for the PC rather than spend another day in PbP post bouncing messages back and forth.
The guy was at -9hp so I brought him above with another use of Rebuke dead. (after Jawhar healed him 7hp I rolled again and healed him another 4hp) I did this because I'm 99% sure you guys want this guy conscious and talking...If I'm out of line just say so (Jawhar) and we'll retcon.
In the future, I'm likely to do this again if I know your resources will rejuvenate over-night. If anyone has any objections...Please let me know now...or forever, hold your peace.
thx
lucklesshero
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
WHOA! Who is this halfling warrior that just did 10 hp of damage with one hit?
Heh. Mousers don’t really become effective until 3rd level, when they can take Fencing Grace and get the Precise Strike deed. Dex to damage, plus 1 point per swashbuckler level of precision damage (no cost to use it, but Jamir has to have 1 panache point), goes a long way.
|
|
Luckless, quick question...did I miss because my roll wasn't high enough to hit her base AC or because she had additional cover from either Jawhar or the stones? Myth has the Deadeye Bowman trait so she wouldn't get the soft cover AC bonus from Jawhar being in front of her but she would if it was from the stones...
|
|
It is a fair question. We all love the extra flavor, but it sometimes opens up the possibility that one of your cool features isn't being remembered.
Always a delicate proposition how often to ask questions. :)
I hadn't realized Myth was Erastilian. How interesting that nobody really talks about their religion...
Maybe I focus on that aspect too much with my characters.
good to know on the soft cover thing Myth..but it was the stone that blocked the shot...(Jamir is correct ..guess I need to word my post a little more clearly. ) Anyway, i feel a little bad now that I look at the map because you were probably just trying to stay on the map. ( ie. if the map were bigger you probably would have moved 5' further to get a clear shot. the terrain is sloped (difficult as usually) every where except the inside of the circle. Tell ya what I'm not going to retcon the whole thing..but next time (when it's obvious u can) don't be afraid to go off the map to get a clear shot.
For now,...I'll make it up to you next time you miss a guy by '1'... well you won't...sound good? Or you can just heal 2hp that your down and we'll call it even...your choice...
|
|
I read Luckless's post as though Myth was shooting at the Kellid who attacked Craggark, not the one who attacked Jawhar.
Ah, that's what confused me then...I moved back to get a little space and I didn't think the rocks were providing cover for the Kellid leader that was attacking Jawhar...I figured I would attack her since Jawhar took the most damage and she seemed to be our biggest threat...
Ok before anyone jumps me about Jawhar going down let me start by saying Myth's arrow would not have dropped her anyway. She has far more HP than 20 so Jawhar was going down no mater. Secondly, sorry I read your post wrong Myth. (it happens) But, I decided in this instance it was proper to go ahead and assess a partial cover penalty anyway. My ruling has to do with a few things so bear with me.
1. I have 6 characters all above 1st level playing this...it's kinda on each character to remember their own abilities and tell me them when they write their post. Otherwise, we get a lot of situations where I'm constantly going back to retcon.
2. I don't want to take away the stuff that makes you cool. But I have an ability with another character ( a cleric that can re-roll initiative) that not one GM used in the first three adventures I played him in (even though I told them in the discussion forum each time before the scenario started.) I finally got to start using it by just telling the GM in my fourth game, "just roll twice for Eamon's initiative and I'll take the better one"(even though the ability clearly states I can re-roll if I want to or give my re-roll to another player, I decided I'd never get to use it if I didn't make it easier for the GM) The point is if u got a cool special ability like "no soft cover bonuses for opponents there is no way I'm going to remember that" (especially on our first mission together!) Jamir has seems like 5 -10 abilities I swear I don't know 1/2 of them! Craggark can literally change his abilities! Point is it's on you to remind when you post your combat shot. (by the way I admit I still messed up but, if you had talked about "no soft cover bonuses" in your post it would have been a lot more difficult for me to confuse the Red warrior with the leader)
3. I told you the standing stones were on a hill. So moving back down the hill you had to realize you would be dropping in elevation. Now the rules are fuzzy here..and to be honest I won't always rule the same way I'm going to now (that the elevation relative to Myth's position gives the Barbarian Kellid woman a partial cover bonus). The fact is, I'm ruling this way for 2 reasons.
A. it fits the narrative
B. it wouldn't have changed a thing about Jawhar being struck down
4. Having been a hunter for many years, I know a thing or two about firing both firearms and bows both up-hill and down. The short of it..it's harder. Perhaps Pathfinder raw compensates for that, in the fact that all characters are considered experts at their chosen craft ect..But, I don't see that quite holding water for a case when they assert so many other "real life" penalties. Quite clearly they don't have time to write a ballistics book. (otherwise longbow and crossbows would be treated very differently in this game, because in real life they posses very different qualities) For reference sake I've included a few spoiler passages of why it's so difficult to shoot on a pitched angle from a bow hunting web site.
5. bottom line: I probably would have allowed your shot to go through and hit (without assessing the the cover penalty that I've essentially manufactured ) had you included the soft cover stuff in your original post. But, I don't feel bad about having it miss either. First elevation and cover are open to interpretation even if not strictly covered by RAW. Second and more importantly, Keeping the flow of combat moving forward is extremely important in PbP games where one combat can span a week or more in real time. Keep in mind I'm not trying to punish your character and "take away the cool stuff." I'm trying to remind you that we're not playing live and it's much more difficult to stop play and re-do stuff because, a player forgot his own abilities. (to be frank I've stopped allowing a lot of this in my home game too. The oh wait! I wanted to power-attack after he's thrown the dice thing doesn't fly at my table anymore.)
6. My offer still stands. I'll let you have a *pass* next time you miss by one or you can heal 2hp now. Or if this really bothers you I'll go ahead and assess the 10hp damage to the leader and we'll move on.
The explanation of the physical situation for uphill/downhill shooting begins with a simple observational fact — that arrow drop at any given range from the bow is almost independent of release elevation angle. What this means is that if the drop of an arrow trajectory at, say, 150 feet is measured when the bow is fired on a level range, then the drop at a slant range distance of 150 feet will be almost the same value when the bow is elevated at +45 degrees, - 15 degrees, - 60 degrees, or any other positive or negative elevation angle. It is very important to remember that we use “start range” because that is the range that the arrow must actually travel to reach the target.
Luckless - I haven’t read your long post above yet and will in a moment, just wanted to point out that you have Jawhar at -18 hp on the initiative list, when by my math he should be at -5:
[dice=Jawhar]13 - 10 + 6 - 14
Yeah just means he took 18hp dmg ...yes he's at -5 thus the DC:15 stabilize check. actually it's a DC:10 with a negative -5 modifier..so yeah that's the same right?
I blame Jamir for being curious :)
I wanted to set up camp and leave the stones alone... Ah well, perhaps I should stop advertising myself as the party healer so I stop getting targeted first.
Nah u were target because text singles out because of your armor (u have a breastplate...everyone else is sporting Chain shirts or less) the text specifically calls out that she attacks the most heavily armored first. I suppose Jamir would be her next target since he's close and already injured her.
On a side note: glad to find Pathfinder does have at least some penalties for fighting uphill...there's a reason every army like ever...always raced to capture the high ground.
BTW Jamir do you have parry? if so and you want to burn a panache roll your parry under a spoiler please.
|
|
No parry - I get underfoot assault instead, which doesn’t require a roll. I’m not going to use the panache point on the yellow mook while the leader is still standing. If she Attacks and misses, though, then Jamir will be sharing her square as an immediate action.
For what it’s worth, I didn’t really understand that we were at the top of a steep slope - the description text quoted mentions a hill (after saying our elevation had been dropping) but doesn’t say anything about it being steep or that the stones effectively ring the flat area with everything else being downhill. I’m not challenging the way you’re resolving the actions, but I think that might explain some of the confusion.