In my eyes, this Hybrid model is an abomination that shouldnt be supported and the argument that everybody is doing so im doing too wont cut for me. It may be good for the suits aiming to buy his next Ferrari but it sux for the consumerists and the game overall suffers from it. The Focus usually turns into in how can we make cash from the unlimited potential of cash shops instead of we are creating more content for EVERYBODY paying the same ammount of money.
Cosmetics may not be pay to win for PvPers but they are for roleplayers, if 2 roleplayers pay the same reasonable amount of 15 bucks but one of them dish 10 more bucks for a nice costume he is winning.
If 2 Pvpers are clashing and one pops a Cash shop potion and win, well he wins...
I cant think in some more immersion breaking than " wait ill buy the next flavor of month dungeon in my App"
i dont know how why posters defend this if not for the surviving of the game, i really hope that is the only reason...
Goblin Squad Member
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I sure hope the PFO forums do not become as pathetic as the MechWarrior Online forums (reputedly only exceeded by CoD forums) with all the accusatory hyperbole about the 'greed' of the developer while ignoring their own 'something for nothing' version of greed.
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Goblin Squad Member
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In my eyes, this Hybrid model is an abomination that shouldnt be supported and the argument that everybody is doing so im doing too wont cut for me. It may be good for the suits aiming to buy his next Ferrari but it sux for the consumerists and the game overall suffers from it. The Focus usually turns into in how can we make cash from the unlimited potential of cash shops instead of we are creating more content for EVERYBODY paying the same ammount of money.
Cosmetics may not be pay to win for PvPers but they are for roleplayers, if 2 roleplayers pay the same reasonable amount of 15 bucks but one of them dish 10 more bucks for a nice costume he is winning.
If 2 Pvpers are clashing and one pops a Cash shop potion and win, well he wins...
I cant think in some more immersion breaking than " wait ill buy the next flavor of month dungeon in my App"
i dont know how why posters defend this if not for the surviving of the game, i really hope that is the only reason...
This!!
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Goblin Squad Member
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i dont know how why posters defend this if not for the surviving of the game, i really hope that is the only reason...
It is a pretty good reason though. Bankrupt GoblinWorks = no more PFO. They think it's the best model to make the game profitable, I say go for it.
Would I prefer Ye Olde Sub model? Yes, but not if it means risking that the game turns out unprofitable so development is shut down and the game closes.
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Goblin Squad Member
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In my eyes, this Hybrid model is an abomination that shouldnt be supported and the argument that everybody is doing so im doing too wont cut for me. It may be good for the suits aiming to buy his next Ferrari but it sux for the consumerists and the game overall suffers from it. The Focus usually turns into in how can we make cash from the unlimited potential of cash shops instead of we are creating more content for EVERYBODY paying the same ammount of money.
I have already said this, but other than minor faction quests and escalations, there will be NO content other than what we as players provide. The cash store or lack of it will have no impact on content.
Cosmetics may not be pay to win for PvPers but they are for roleplayers, if 2 roleplayers pay the same reasonable amount of 15 bucks but one of them dish 10 more bucks for a nice costume he is winning.
There is no winning in Role-playing. Role-playing isn't about seeing who has the nicest outfit, it's about playing a character with meaning. Cosmetic things to buy in the store give more option than there would be otherwise, but it isn't winning if there is someone who uses them vs someone who doesn't. Playing dress-up isn't winning.
If 2 Pvpers are clashing and one pops a Cash shop potion and win, well he wins...
There will be no difference between a cash shop potion and a player created one. The only difference is the player created one is bough with game coin instead of real money.
I cant think in some more immersion breaking than " wait ill buy the next flavor of month dungeon in my App"
This may never happen, and if it does it will be years and years from now. However, if it does, I would love to be able to play the stories that the players create, and to create my own.
i dont know how why posters defend this if not for the surviving of the game, i really hope that is the only reason...
The reason it is so bad in other games is because it was added after the sub model failed, and they had to get as much money as possible from the few that were paying. By planning for the cash shop from the beginning, GW is taking steps to make sure that there is not going to be a pay to win situation.
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Goblin Squad Member
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e overall suffers from it. The Focus usually turns into in how can we make cash from the unlimited potential of cash shops instead of we are creating more content for EVERYBODY paying the same ammount of money.
I've made this point. It's the key thing to be vigilant about in an MTX system.
Apart from that I can only see benefits for GW adopting a Hybrid Model. If you look into it time/money/accessibility/options it's good. Once GW have a successful mmorpg providing stuff that slots into that ecosystem is the way forward eg ways for players to design/sell graphical stuff for settlements. Adventure Paths etc all around the world game itself. Those would be wide range from incremental to substantial.
So any doubts need to focus more on the weak points in the model. The model itself is stronger than f2p or sub only. But hybrid is more variable to define per mmorpg surely? For eg 2 good points:
1) Communities being able to chip in for something big on that scale but individually small contribution eg adventure paths
2) Players making eg unity stuff to sell to each other.
Those are clearly outside a pure model.
So less emotional increasing te pitch to gain attention and more consolidation of what is what. But yes: To ensure the devs are not spending all their time making unicorn skins to sell in the cash shop instead of gameplay expanding work. ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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In my eyes, this Hybrid model is an abomination that shouldnt be supported and the argument that everybody is doing so im doing too wont cut for me. It may be good for the suits aiming to buy his next Ferrari but it sux for the consumerists and the game overall suffers from it. The Focus usually turns into in how can we make cash from the unlimited potential of cash shops instead of we are creating more content for EVERYBODY paying the same ammount of money.I have already said this, but other than minor faction quests and escalations, there will be NO content other than what we as players provide. The cash store or lack of it will have no impact on content.
For now, Ryan said in time there will be quests you can buy from the store.
Cosmetics may not be pay to win for PvPers but they are for roleplayers, if 2 roleplayers pay the same reasonable amount of 15 bucks but one of them dish 10 more bucks for a nice costume he is winning.There is no winning in Role-playing. Role-playing isn't about seeing who has the nicest outfit, it's about playing a character with meaning. Cosmetic things to buy in the store give more option than there would be otherwise, but it isn't winning if there is someone who uses them vs someone who doesn't. Playing dress-up isn't winning.
No, a cosmetic store does not give more options. These are the kinds of things crafters should be making.
And to some, whether you agree or not, Role-Playing in an online game, the outfit does matter... It doesnt to me but others may compete on looks.If 2 Pvpers are clashing and one pops a Cash shop potion and win, well he wins...There will be no difference between a cash shop potion and a player created one. The only difference is the player created one is bough with game coin instead of real money.
You dont know that. I would bet that there will be a difference, or why have it in the cash shop when you can buy them cheap with gold?
I cant think in some more immersion breaking than " wait ill buy the next flavor of month dungeon in my App"This may never happen, and if it does it will be years and years from now. However, if it does, I would love to be able to play the stories that the players create, and to create my own.
Its been mentioned enough to have it as an "on the table" plan to consider. Which will be pay to win since the items/craftables gained from these may be required for making high end items. But that is as speculative as the potions.
i dont know how why posters defend this if not for the surviving of the game, i really hope that is the only reason...The reason it is so bad in other games is because it was added after the sub model failed, and they had to get as much money as possible from the few that were paying. By planning for the cash shop from the beginning, GW is taking steps to make sure that there is not going to be a pay to win situation.
The sub model failed because the game failed. People came back to those game because they went f2p.
Just because they are planning it from the beginning does not mean it will not become pay to win.Honestly its always pay to win. Even that potion, you got it with real life money and it can change events in any fight... Its pay to win.
Cosmetic items should be craftable but you can now get it from the cash shop and sell it for more on the regular market... Pay to win
On and on we can go... If it gives you something you can use in game then its pay to win.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I've got to say, I don't think consumable potions from MTX purchase should be sold. Unless perhaps as a newbie player for first 30-60 days or less if a higher level is reached or x coin is earnt perhaps would be an exception.
I fail to see how that is not a bad thing otherwise? Eg "I just enjoyed combat but badly bleeding... Dang consumables not to hand or grind to get... Wait I can relieve the pain/inconvenience if I pay for some."
I've played those games and I despise that scenario. Simple.
Unless the option is for newbie to give 'em a boost option vs learning the harsh lessons too soon, but even then, "omg, cash shop mmo!"
So where does cash shop consumable fit in?
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Goblin Squad Member
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There may be craftable equivalent items maybe? With GW doing what they can to eliminate 'the level grind' the forms of consumables sold by most cash shops are not really applicable. And then for player-craftable items, we need to make sure there is an equitable delivery system and not an instant inventory drop. That would truly be game-breaking.
i dont know how why posters defend this if not for the surviving of the game, i really hope that is the only reason...It is a pretty good reason though. Bankrupt GoblinWorks = no more PFO. They think it's the best model to make the game profitable, I say go for it.
Would I prefer Ye Olde Sub model? Yes, but not if it means risking that the game turns out unprofitable so development is shut down and the game closes.
if it is really necessary to keep the ball spinning im ok with it, but as Avena said, we ll have to stay vigilant about what they are selling it,consumables in cash shop can pretty much kill the bread and butter of a sandbox, im not even speaking about gear.
they said it that the CS will sell only things that can be obtained and wont be more powerfull that the ones in game(correct me if im wrong), by this logic, if a vorpal sword is craftable, in theory they can sell it in the CS.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Reading the entire thread, I would like to comment on what I would pay for;
Subscription = Training time (for the month) + some benefits
What I would like to see from the CASH SHOP:
-emotes (weird laugh, strange dance, maybe a short tavern song, etc)
- non-core race access (lets say down the road Aasimar, Ratfolk, etc)
- prestige class access
- basic adventure gear ('class' specific - ie Barbarian gets a greatclub, hide armour, backpack with a few goodies, savage outfit)
- Mount Skins, Vanity Pets (earn mount in game, some way to customize it)
- Pet Skins (earn the pet in game, but purchase some way to customize it)
- PVE 'dungeon' content (single use, buy for entire group or individual)
- Housing Skins
- Crafting Skins
- low powered potions/scrolls/wands (ie Potion of Cure Light Wounds, Wand of Magic Missile (1st caster level)
- Training time for Alts
If the additional income from the cash shops is the only way to get the above content, then what is so bad about paying for some content. If you play one character, is it so bad to pay $1.00 to get a tazylwurm (s.p.) skin for your pet Snake, or if you are a crafter paying $0.50 to be able to craft a cloak with a trim which you could pick/choose the colour).
I don't think this is a bad thing, especially if it lets people be more interested in the game, does not mechanically give someone an advantage, and helps generate content.
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Goblin Squad Member
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For now, Ryan said in time there will be quests you can buy from the store.
He said if they play their cards right ,in the distant future GW may release some of their toolset and enable players to create content that might be offered on the store.
Further, when Ryan first discussed the possibility there were significant restrictions, such as no unusual drops, entrances appear at random points across the landscape, and disappear after use.
How would such a system be a problem?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Most of the things you listed do give advantages...
Non Core Races
Prestige Classes
Basic Adventure Gear
PVE Dungeons
Crafting Skins (Id list housing skins, but I think housing is a waste of dev time to create)
low powered anything
The only thing on Brax's list I disagree with is prestige classes. GW (and the game) would be better off using the prestige classes as an incentive for capped characters to keep leveling.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Most of the things you listed do give advantages...
Non Core Races
Prestige Classes
Basic Adventure Gear
PVE Dungeons
Crafting Skins (Id list housing skins, but I think housing is a waste of dev time to create)
low powered anything
Thank you for responding Xeen, lets look at your rebuttal carefully;
Non Core Races - all PC races in pathfinder RPG are built on a system to ensure basic fairness, and they are very well-balanced. Any racial advantage is balanced against other races.
Prestige Classes - as most table top players understand, Prestige Classes are usually mechanically inferior to the core classes, or at minimum comparable.
Basic Adventure Gear - I think it is an advantage to 'core' players that people who want to try out the game can get enough starting gear to at least enjoy the game - and maybe become a 'core' player - thereby increasing the player base - and subscription base for everyone.
PVE Dungeons - Developers have said before that most loot that drops in the game will be for crafters to perfect and make usable. I don't see how this differs. Furthermore, having purchasable content will allow Players who prefer PVE an avenue to continue to be interested in PFO.
Crafting Skins - I fail to understand your argument that a blue cloak with white trim is mechanically superior to a blue cloak with black trim.
Lower power potions, etc - see Basic Adventure Gear.
So yes, a few of my suggestions would have some mechanical advantage or difference, I think that the above listed have merit and will increase the player base.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The only thing on Brax's list I disagree with is prestige classes. GW (and the game) would be better off using the prestige classes as an incentive for capped characters to keep leveling.Most of the things you listed do give advantages...
Non Core Races
Prestige Classes
Basic Adventure Gear
PVE Dungeons
Crafting Skins (Id list housing skins, but I think housing is a waste of dev time to create)
low powered anything
I agree that prestige classes as an incentive to keep leveling has merit.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Non Core Races - The races will be built on fairness, but they will be different, so a new race may be mechanically superior for a certain build or class
Prestige Classes - I am a table top player, and yes most of them are inferior... some are overly superior, either way it can be a complete advantage depending on your build type
Basic Adventure Gear - Honestly this should be given to every starting character
PVE Dungeons - Lets say the escalations in the area of the game you adventure in have been all farmed up... You pick up one from the store to get some (crafting) loot, that puts it at an advantage over someone else that could not buy it
Crafting Skins - This should be in the hands of crafters to build and trade, but in a store you can buy it and sell it on the market at a substantial profit PFO will not have binding like you may have seen in other games
Low Power Stuff - potions, scrolls, whatever, is something you did not have but do now that can be used in combat and give you that little edge to victory you would otherwise not had
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Goblin Squad Member
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As for PVE dungeon content, I think it would be great if you could purchase a single ticket or a group ticket to a 'quest'. That way, you could invite your friends/guild members for the event even if they could not afford to do it.
If a single ticket to a dungeon 'instance' was $1, and a six man group was $5, for a single use one-day only adventure (with about 2-hours of content), I don't think many people would find that cost outrageous.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As for PVE dungeon content, I think it would be great if you could purchase a single ticket or a group ticket to a 'quest'. That way, you could invite your friends/guild members for the event even if they could not afford to do it.
If a single ticket to a dungeon 'instance' was $1, and a six man group was $5, for a single use one-day only adventure (with about 2-hours of content), I don't think many people would find that cost outrageous.
Easy now, Ryan's money hairs on the back of his neck went WOO WOO WOO!!!
Lol
How often would you pay that $5?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I didnt say they would be required to have unfair advantages...
I was just saying that they could have attribute differences, no more or less then normal races, that work better for a specific class then anything else... and that doesnt need to be for sale in a store, it would be the definition of Pay to Win.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Non Core Races - The races will be built on fairness, but they will be different, so a new race may be mechanically superior for a certain build or class
etc...
Your argument is better, and yes, I agree that in tabletop it is possible to exploit some synergies with prestige classes/race/ etc. I think that any such unbalances can be removed/lessened by quality design before GW implements.
Basic Adventure Gear - Honestly this should be given to every starting character - I agree with you on this point.
I'm not saying that you can buy the item in the Cash Shop, I'm suggesting you can buy a 'skin' to change the look of the item, sometimes in minor ways, during the crafting process. I think that crafters should have plenty of options for making gear, but for example;
- a standard tailor can make a cloak with two main colour options (base colour and trim colour), and a detail option (clasp, basic trim). If the tailor purchases a 'skin' it may open up a two additional colour options (interior colour and secondary trim colour) and an additional option (deep cowl, wolf pelt, bones, etc). This could purchase could also have a limit (like 1 use, 5 uses), so that the crafter has access to make a certain amount of these while crafting.
I do like your way of thinking, but I am trying to be realistic by balancing the needs of GW to produce revenue and the necessity of game balance for all players.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As for PVE dungeon content, I think it would be great if you could purchase a single ticket or a group ticket to a 'quest'. That way, you could invite your friends/guild members for the event even if they could not afford to do it.
If a single ticket to a dungeon 'instance' was $1, and a six man group was $5, for a single use one-day only adventure (with about 2-hours of content), I don't think many people would find that cost outrageous.
Easy now, Ryan's money hairs on the back of his neck went WOO WOO WOO!!!
Lol
How often would you pay that $5?
Once every couple of weeks would be ok, depending on what was going on with my guild, needs of our town, etc. If all players would drop $5 in the cash shop a month, on various things, that would pay for artwork and for designers. It is a win -win.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Actually, a lot of things on the list of items you would buy are specifically what would drive me away from the game.
Races - Races are definitely a mechanical benefit, even more so in a game where builds can be *dependent* on races, stat arrays and access to things like a spell-like ability giving early access to other options.
Prestige Classes - These can provide access to abilities that can make a character insanely powerful, like the duelist PRC that adds Int to AC and static damage modifiers every level.
PVE Dungeons - No. These shouldn't be a pay to play situation for a subscriber. It killed DDO and COH/COV for me and a number of my friends when they tried to get people to pay for instances and story arcs. This is especially true with the way they've discussed implementing them. There is no quest giver required, no change to plot, NPC's or topography. I *AM* a PVE player primarily and if I pay a monthly sub, I will not be paying for dungeons or instances, instead choosing to find a game that supports my play style without imposing a tax on me.
Anything you listed above as a skin, I'm perfectly fine with that being a cash shop purchase.
I would rather pay for an expansion that adds these things then pay for them in the cash shop, and then continue with my monthly sub. Even then, yes, I do still expect my monthly sub to keep up with an occasional patch that includes new content.
If the only way to that GW can get this stuff implemented is through a cash shop, then I will find a new game. This is not a threat, it's a fact. Blizzard is doing fine without resorting to any of the tactics that you are defending. They will do just fine on the revenue stream with a sub model unless the game itself is a failure.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I didnt say they would be required to have unfair advantages...
I was just saying that they could have attribute differences, no more or less then normal races, that work better for a specific class then anything else... and that doesnt need to be for sale in a store, it would be the definition of Pay to Win.
Let's take a game that is actually P2W, and contrast that: Candy Crush Saga.
When the score can be increased almost directly with cash, that is P2W. When the result is only slightly influenced by cash, I do not think that is P2W.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I didnt say they would be required to have unfair advantages...
I was just saying that they could have attribute differences, no more or less then normal races, that work better for a specific class then anything else... and that doesnt need to be for sale in a store, it would be the definition of Pay to Win.
Let's take a game that is actually P2W, and contrast that: Candy Crush Saga.
When the score can be increased almost directly with cash, that is P2W. When the result is only slightly influenced by cash, I do not think that is P2W.
Hearing stuff like this from your staff repeatedly before launch does make me feel concern for the game. I hope I invested wisely.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hearing stuff like this from your staff repeatedly before launch does make me feel concern for the game. I hope I invested wisely.I didnt say they would be required to have unfair advantages...
I was just saying that they could have attribute differences, no more or less then normal races, that work better for a specific class then anything else... and that doesnt need to be for sale in a store, it would be the definition of Pay to Win.
Let's take a game that is actually P2W, and contrast that: Candy Crush Saga.
When the score can be increased almost directly with cash, that is P2W. When the result is only slightly influenced by cash, I do not think that is P2W.
For the sake of clarity, DeciusBrutus' "Goblinworks Executive Founder" tag does not identify him as staff or a member of Goblinworks. That forum title is a reward for funding the Technology Demo Kickstarter at the $500 or more level.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I find it extremely useful to think of myself as a guest.And you are not an investor.This is important to keep in mind. We are not investors. At most we are patrons.
I think of myself as a customer, since I have received (or expect to receive) more than the agreed amount of merchandise and services for fees paid.
The chance to influence and learn about how PFO is being made is just an additional bonus.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Xeen, I think you're reducing the argument to the point of absurdity. Yes, if two completely equal characters square off and one of them has a cash shop heal potion, that character is more likely to win. However, that situation is not really going to happen; any given character will likely be carrying roughly the same number of potions, whether or not they bought them in the cash shop. If someone loads up on consumables in the cash shop and carries them all around, they're just going to lose them all in the first encounter they die at, just like if someone buys a bunch of consumables with in-game money and carries them all around. How is using the cash shop to buy potions guaranteeing a win here?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am not overly keen on cash shops, but they are a reality and are going to be implement and so any argument in that direction is a moot point.
However, in a sandbox type games where crafting is encouraged; to sell basic CLW (or similar) potions is robbing low level crafters of their livelihood. For an alchemist/potion maker, the low level potions are their bread and butter products and to allow the sale of such items in a cash shop may cause problems in the wider economy. I know that GW are not trying to replicate the tabletop PF but .....
A basic CLW potion costs 50g which is over three time that of the cost of a longsword. Does that mean that a nice longsword or scale armour should be sold? If so, the black and leathersmiths will be unhappy - another thread discussing crafting skills is debating the fact level of training a person would need to be before getting the skill to make even a crude longsword. If not sold then this would skew the economy as blacksmiths can make cheap low cost items but potion makers can't.
Then there is a suggestion that basic wands should be purchasable. Using the same logic (value 750g in PF tabletop); I should be able to purchase a masterwork longsword. This isn't a case of reductio ad absurdum; I want crafters to be able to flourish and for there to be a vibrant economy and allowing basic crafted items to enter the games via a cash shop would potentially have an adverse effect on this. How long would I need to train before I can actually make something that people would want to buy.
I have no problems with skins and titles, and unless there is to be a tailor skill - clothes; but not items that that can be crafted by people in game. I also have no problems with them selling dyes. emblems, tattoos etc. but not anything that I need to spend time training before I can make it myself. I would much rather they sold Vorpal Flaming Swords of Insanity+5 than the basic crafting bread and butter items.
Similarly if they wanted to sell bandage with +5 to heal skill you would not see me lighting my torch and grabbing my pitchfork - unless they were craftable or they were worse than even the most green apprentice could make.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Even though he's not on staff, he's totally right. If you can't buy an advantage, a game is not Pay to Win.
And you are not an investor.
Put it in context Ryan, If you can buy a race from the cash shop that is better then any race a subscriber has the option for... That is pay to win.
Something like that can throw a 1v1 pvp fight over the edge enough for victory in any repeated encounter. That is pay to win.
The game that decius is talking about is pay to the poor house... Wow what nonsense.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Xeen, I think you're reducing the argument to the point of absurdity. Yes, if two completely equal characters square off and one of them has a cash shop heal potion, that character is more likely to win. However, that situation is not really going to happen; any given character will likely be carrying roughly the same number of potions, whether or not they bought them in the cash shop. If someone loads up on consumables in the cash shop and carries them all around, they're just going to lose them all in the first encounter they die at, just like if someone buys a bunch of consumables with in-game money and carries them all around. How is using the cash shop to buy potions guaranteeing a win here?
I never said it was guaranteeing a win. I said that it could be enough to throw a fight over the edge to victory.
Lets take your example, two guys fight it out, each has 4 potions (all you can carry)... The end of the fight, one guy wins, used up all 4 of his potions and picks up 2 from the guy he killed... He runs into someone else to fight, the new guy has 4 potions... The fight ends with the new guy as victor, he has 1 potion left and the loser used his 2... Oh wait, goes to cash shop and buys 3, ready for next fight. No effort, no nothing, ready for the next fight full up. No need to run back to your stash and fill up again.
I am not being absurd, I am trying to point out what little things can do to change an outcome in a game.
Has any of you payed PnP? Seriously!!!
What if the DM comes to the next game and says to your group... Hey guys, for $10 each I will raise one of your attributes by one point. One attribute point, is that so much? You can afford 10, and the guy next you can afford 1... Why would the guy next to you keep playing when you rule the entire game?
Sure an attribute may be more then offered in the cash shop, but do you get the point?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't think the people who have posted here are blind to the problems that get introduced with a cash shop. I don't see that people are saying it will all be fine and it won't create a somewhat different play experience compared to if there was no cash shop.
What I do see is that many accept that a cash shop of some sort may be necessary to finance the game and the people working on it. If a philanthropist willing to continually pay unlimited amounts of money to ensure continued development of the game and salaries to a large team of developers appeared, then we could close down all plans for a cash shop.
That is not the reality we are faced with. GW needs to make money, for their sake and the game's sake. Unless a better solution than a cash shop to make more money than a standard sub model can be crowdforged, discussions should focus on how to make the cash shop model work better.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Here is the way I see it...
The MTX store in and of itself is fine. In fact do it, I have seen to many gamers that think they are entitled to a free game.... Then come in and spend a lot of money in the MTX store. Put things in that store that do not matter... A couple of the things Brax talked about are fine, but not all of it... including training for characters.
Then make a subscription that is EVERYTHING THE GAME OFFERS, and set a price for it. And I do mean everything.
Allow people to make those two choices.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Then make a subscription that is EVERYTHING THE GAME OFFERS, and set a price for it. And I do mean everything.
What if the price for that sub that includes everything was $50 a month? What if it was $100? If that give you access to everything in the cash shop, and all additional content, isn't that sub also paying to win?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't think the people who have posted here are blind to the problems that get introduced with a cash shop. I don't see that people are saying it will all be fine and it won't create a somewhat different play experience compared to if there was no cash shop.
What I do see is that many accept that a cash shop of some sort may be necessary to finance the game and the people working on it. If a philanthropist willing to continually pay unlimited amounts of money to ensure continued development of the game and salaries to a large team of developers appeared, then we could close down all plans for a cash shop.
That is not the reality we are faced with. GW needs to make money, for their sake and the game's sake. Unless a better solution than a cash shop to make more money than a standard sub model can be crowdforged, discussions should focus on how to make the cash shop model work better.
It's really the same as complaining about the VIP section of the club, 1st class airplane sections or skyboxes at the stadium. Everybody gets the same show, some just get it a bit more comfortable.