Lords of Creation

Game Master stringburka

I don't think we need a decree that mortal souls go to any of a set of afterlives. We have created a holding place, agreed that they go somewhere afterward, and even determined that some creatures won't have souls, or that those souls can later be destroyed and become nothing.

If we want points spent on something that makes a home for believers of certain pantheons, or of a specific alignment, what we ought to do is make more planes.

To be clear: we're not saying you can spend 2 points to decree that their worshipers can't die, right? We've established that everything dies.

You just mean your worshipers' heads don't explode when they see your raw awesomeness. They can still be hurt, still catch disease, and still die of old age, yes?

Yeah .. that seemed a stretch to me too ...
Anyway ...
I have created a profile for Jezebelle with a recap of her Dominions skills and all her AP expenses and gains.
So whenever you want to check on her actions or her dominions you don't have to look at all the posts to find every little scrap of information.
I also put attack in strength, defense in dexterity and Hp in constitution.
Let me know if you feel something is missing...

Three points, actually, under the rules of the system (Boon as Exception from Cosmic Decree) - Yidhra doesn't really understand why messing around with the natural order of the universe might be a bad thing, and she -really- wants some companions... but since their heads keep exploding, she did something that (to her) is a good way of solving the problem.

If a god of death opposes that, they -could- spend lots of energy to fight her... or they could try and convince her to change things a little more, like by limiting the immortality to a select group and having it rotate - say, they're unkillable for a thousand years, but after that can die like normal, which would let her have mortal companions (in a timeframe that's slightly more meaningful to her) while still keeping true to the idea that everything dies. Eventually. ^^

I think Yidhra wants to be like Dr. Who.

I spent points on being able to decree and control death. Not to make it possible for someone to spend fewer points to ignore it. Unless you help define it further, what it looks like your're building is an.unstoppable race - as long as they worship you they can't die or be killed. That's untenable.

If it looks to.be within the rules that your followers can.never die, you'll have started this game by declaring them beyond the purview of not one, but two areas most would say are universal. If Melehan doesn't care, it leaves you andI spending points to fight each other until new players step in and replace us both.

Death.has to.push all his chips,to the table here. You can't just decree "my people are immune to the influence of other gods".

Now, a compromise might be "my people are unafraid of death because they're mad". That defies mortal nature but it exempts your people from a mundane concept that affects,all mortals. Azdan would be irritated, but not violated.

Honestly, I think an unstoppable race would be boring, and I rather suspect a lot of other people would work together to make sure it didn't happen. XD What I'm imagining is more of a very small group of worshipers who seek knowledge beyond the limits of what mortals ought to know, and who jealously guard what they've learned. Think of it as, oh, an ancient cabal of a dozen members (or so) that only rarely steps out to interact with the world, not entire nations where death refuses to visit. Strong, but very limited in scale. It'd be much less fun if it went past that point.

Edit: And the excuse I will use for this is the fact that Yidhra is so incomprehensible that even many people who think they're worshiping her will get enough wrong that the immortality thing doesn't kick in for them, because it has a rather specific opinion on what counts and what doesn't. ^^ Having a gift for her followers that most of them can't receive is completely fitting for her, after all.

Given your new explanation, I think it's reasonable enough we can strike a compromise in game. I'll offer you a deal IC.

Ya, your first onw was rather unreasonable, or at least not specific enough.
If you are not allowed to make the gods immortal, you shouldnt be able to make the mortals immortal!
So you are trying to use the exault action to make your specific group unaffected by death. Thats fine, but i have a few questions.
To what limit is the exception? Cannot die of old age? Natural causes? What happens when they get in a fight and lose? If they get ripped in half or have their head crushed in, are they still alive?
I think that you need to define it some more and it should be good.
What i would sugest would be
3ap. Exalt. The group of twelve cannot die of natural causes and have an unlimited lifespan as long as something dosent kill them off or they stop worshiping Yidhra.
3ap. Create magical concept. Whenever one of the twelve dies, they have a chance to ressurect or regenerate (dr who style!).

The other thing you could do and looks like it is what you would want would be the divine covenant.

I do understand your concerns, though I hope you'll wait to see what I have planned before you worry too much. ^^ I'm not trying to take over the world, totally annihilate everyone else's plans, or otherwise hugely disrupt the game. That would be poor sportsmanship.

Yidhra's gifts are generally two-sided; inability to die is exactly that - you can blast them to ashes and they'd still be able to heal from it... at exactly the same rate as normal healing, unable to use fancy healing magic until enough of their brain was back for them to concentrate. This is exactly as painful and awkward as it sounds, but you could still do something like trap them in a pit or lava or at the bottom of the ocean or something to remove them as a threat. They're immortal, not invincible, and a few centuries of torment might make them reconsider their choice of patron...

Aside from that, I think any qualifying members would be wise men - in the sense of "The wisest man is he who knows that he doesn't know anything". Anybody with notions of what Yidhra is (like "a power source for my eeeeeeevil plots!") would be too dogmatic to truly worship or understand her, and so they'd be doomed to failure from the start. If anything, I'm leaning more towards a group of ancient, learned sages that others could visit for advice. People who have great power and do absolutely nothing useful with it are precisely the sort of worshipers that would work best for the Goddess of Paradoxes. ^^

Thats exactly what i wanted to hear and i can get behind that 100% :)
That would be perfectly viable for the 3 ap exalt action.
And i like it btw :)

i ask because i am about to create a powerful race of dragons and i am going to be spending at least 8 ap to create them, more then half of my starting ap :S

on a side note, i am thinking of taking the kingmaker ability, it jives really well with the law domain. Would you guys be ok with me "promoting" some of your races indiduals? Heck, tell me which ones you want promoted and ill do the action for you then give you the reigns. Nico Bolas cares more that he creates the rulers then that they worship him (for now). I just want to be the promoter and hey, its cheaper for you!!

I don't really have much in the way of races at the moment... XD So there's no objections here!

...

I should probably make an organization of some kind, though. Maybe after Death says hello to Yidhra....

umh I have a doubt now..
Erande basically created bardic music.
Does that mean that only his societies and heroes can use it?
If that is so ... it is permitted to create the same thing twice?
Or he just claimed bardic music for himself?

No, we can allow you to affect our stuff as well if we want (and i think it would be a good idea)
To set the example, if you want to give the dragon race music and poetry, i would be glad :)
Although dont give them anything involving writing or building. They are more of a "monsterous" race in that they dont build things.

Melehan's waiting for Yidhra's reply.

Not anymore!

Actually Melehan is completely ignoring a goddess of hate and Jealousy that asked him a question ... as a matter of fact, he started to pay undivided attention to another goddess the exact moment she asked her question.
How wise is that?

I'm sorry, things are kind of confused for me right now. I thought she was talking to Aeon.

Umm. What did Empty say? All i get is boxes and i dont feel like playing Hangman :S

It's obviously a metaphor for his empty words. Empty boxes, you see.

In all seriousness, oh, dangit. I thought for sure I'd found something that would display everywhere properly. I'll stick to forum formats from now on.

What he said was: "Death. Dust. Azdan. The Silent watches and sees your name and words. The Silent is not the dust. The Silent is less than dust. The Empty is here not to speak of dust but of nothing.

"The Empty has come to say: The Nothing will act. More than watch. The Empty tells you the Nothing will ask for those who are of nothing. Not your handful of dust. The Nothing asks you to not interfere."

@Scarlet: actually, if you reread my post, I gave bard song to members of all races (or at least the ones who existed at the time). As more people create races, they can talk to me IC to get bard song (which in my mind is not spellcasting, but more like music that does things).

@Nico: I also plan on raising heroes, but my heroes will probably go to war with your heroes. I've already started my first one, who is about to begin his travels across the ocean to my continent, which is big enough for him to settle with those who follow him and found a society (which will be an action for down the road).

I think i will hold off on the kingmaker ability for now.
As a side note, how would you like a bit of competition?
Would you be ok with me raising up a rival? Someone who would be trying to compete to get the sword and become king? Whichever one wins, you get to keep, its your land and people, i just want to be a part of the story :)

Also, Nico Bolas hasnt had much interaction with the other gods. I think ill change that here soon.
Btw, Ol' Nico would be up for joining a pantheon if it was offered ;) wink wink

Ya, you're welcome to raise up another hero. Kargoth is afraid of no man (or Dragon!)

@Azdan: Juuuuust to clarify, in game terms, what's Azdan asking Yidhra to do?

Create undeath as a gift to him. You get immortal servitors he promises not to touch or hold against you. But he gets the same on your dime, since you spoke for his portfolio. Because undeath is something of a paradox, he thought you'd enjoy that he recognized that.

you win this round nico, you win this round.

So we have AP again? What would you suggest I do?

If you want to get stronger, I suggest starting with stuff to build up your domains. ^^

Hmm, making undeath... "Create Magical Concept", maybe?

Since undeath is being treated as a paradox, I think that's fine. Then I'll send the points to create my own agents to protect the purpose and laws of Death. I obviously wouldn't ask Yidhra to craft the minions for me.

I was hoping to avoid embracing the evil side of death so quickly, but the neutral nothing and the natural flow of the prose (being born in shadow, etc.) has sort of forced my hand.

I promise to be a fun evil guy to play with. But not too fun. :)

Hmm... o wo~ *Tinkers with idea*

man, you create a hero and suddenly everyone is on the bandwagon =P

...I don't think Yidhra should try making a hero. XD She'd probably promote a king into a farmer or something - He'd be an awesome farmer, and rule his reluctant crops with a combination of iron scythe and refreshing water, to the jealousy of all the other farmers in the area, but it would get increasingly weird over time...

Oh..i didn't describe my moves mechanically. I have created a plane, which is essentially the shadow and negative material plane. Also, I made an artifact to give to some "heroes" later.

Ohhhh...Melehan's gonna be PISSED!

Yidhra: Make them dead, don't make them dead, get angry when they're not dead anymore... you people don't make any sense at all. ^^ I like you!

Melehan's job in the old pantheon was the god of putting the undead back down. It's kind of a sore spot for him, as he and his old followers witnessed a lot of suffering at undead hands. He hoped this wouldn't happen again.

Yidhra, I will have to give you something in terms of progress toward law. Unless you would like chaos instead, I will think of something suitably cool.

Melehan, I am looking for word from the Mistress of Winter. Have you or the others heard anything?

Nope.

Me neither, I'm still here, just biding my time and seriously debating the next step I take.

Just to make this clear .. Jezebelle's vampires do NOT sparkle.
If you want them to sparkle make your own creature... if you try to curse my vampires by making their skin sparkle I will make it my sacred mission to destroy everything you ever loved :P

Just to note, Yidhra is the sort of goddess who, if presented with a button marked "Do not push", will immediately want to push it. XD Fortunately, she has other plans right now.

Just to note, Yidhra is the sort of goddess who, if presented with a button marked "Do not push", will immediately want to push it. XD Fortunately, she has other plans right now.

I figured that much .. that's one of the reasons why I posted this on the ooc board :P

Well...there might be a lot of fighting soon, which shows the deep flaws in this system. Here we have two consecutive gods basically wiling that their faithfl can't die, one invents undeath to make up for the intrusion, but makes undeath sort of not uneath at all. And the other makes undead that don't actually count as,undead. The trend is "ignore the other gods' portfolios and do what you want"

We need a retcon and a better system. Or we need a GM.

Sorry ive been off for some time, ha some RL stuff that realy.put me off from roleplaying. ill join again woth an IC post tonight or early tomorrow.when ive come home. Writing of phone.now.so.

I guess it makes sense for.me to be a snow goddess as ive been so flakey.

I guess Kargoth is going to be busy. If he doesn't get stabbed first.

So, now I'm back in the game.

Seeing how these things play out, I guess my character is more Lawful Good than neutral - basically, in my mind, Oenar is protective, and cares about those within her domain, but not dedicated towards some huge greater good cause - though she opposes evil. And she wants order and symmetry, but dislike strong hierarchies, has a temper, and her personal freedom matters a lot to her. So I thought her as neutral with a bend towards good, and neutral with a bend towards both lawful and chaotic. But when compared to the other characters, several of which are to a large part defined by their alignments (like Yidhra), I feel Oenar would be much more drawn towards the lawful and the good, and actively oppose the chaos (especially) and somewhat the evil too.

I don't know if I should change my listed alignment, though it doesn't really do much except give a quick glance of general ideas, and seeing the difference between Melehan (LG), Aeon (LG), and me (who might also be LG) it doesn't really say that much. These gods are all quite different.

Well...there might be a lot of fighting soon, which shows the deep flaws in this system. Here we have two consecutive gods basically wiling that their faithfl can't die, one invents undeath to make up for the intrusion, but makes undeath sort of not uneath at all. And the other makes undead that don't actually count as,undead. The trend is "ignore the other gods' portfolios and do what you want"

We need a retcon and a better system. Or we need a GM.

I see what you mean, though I think by the system the vampires aren't legit to begin with, as they directly oppose a divine mandate without using a scourge/boon.

That said, I think what we need is a stronger gentleperson's agreement, or table rule. We need to agree that "you don't frakk with other people's domains without talking about it in the OOC thread first".

I propose an additional Rule of the Game. This is probably overly verbose, but English isn't my native language so I lack many of the shortcuts other people can make.

9. The game is about cooperative storytelling, and while the gods might try to kill each other, we should try to work together as players to create a good game. If you (or one of your creations) are going to use godly powers in a way that messes with other god's concepts, you need to talk about it in the OOC beforehand, and need to have it accepted by the other player. Examples include, but are not limited to:
- Using godly powers in a way that's closely related to a domain possessed by another god, or to their central concept, and that you don't possess (create concept: libraries without checking with Vrog)
- Overruling divine mandates, even for specific groups (so you need to check OOC as well as use the Boon action)
- Making a divine mandate that severely affects a gods concept or domains ("every living being has fur or feathers" without checking with Gobo)
This is not the same as needing the _character's_ approval; it is very possible for a player to give approval on something, but their character feeling this is a violation and power grab. However, note that it often makes for a better story to be quite generous; don't disallow anything that remotely deals with your stuff, but talk it through with an open mind and see if you can reach a compromise. Sometimes that works, sometimes not, and sometimes the compromise will involve the deities becoming enemies. And sometimes it's possible to accept something even if you don't like it, though you aren't forced to accept it.

Would this seem like a reasonable rule? I want everyone's input on this, not just the mods.

That was a terrible pun and you should be ashamed. (I still laughed, so I guess that makes me worse.)

That extension of the rule looks good and makes sense. This follows from rule number 1 which is '1. You can't do something huge to someone else's god without consent, or at least discussion.'

Conflict is a part of the game (Curse Wars, artifact/monument/relic control are an example in the rules even!) but we don't want conflict between the players.

The gods can fight it out anyway, too. We can test out the battle system!

Proposal: Aggressor (defined as the one who wants to take control of whatever is being fought over, or based on a coin flip or OOC discussion) makes the first post, rolls their dice. Defender (defined as the other party) responds, rolling their dice. Whoever wins the contest for that round (defined as whoever takes less damage; if equal, assumed that the aggressor 'wins') posts their part of the aftermath and becomes the aggressor for the next round, rolling more dice. The new defender describes their part of the aftermath and rolls more dice. This continues until one party surrenders or loses all their HP.

This will hold true for battles between pantheons and such.

In this particular case, I think the loser has to concede over what happens to the undead. A battle seems to be always over a particular thing (a monument, a city, a concept, etc.) so a contest of wills between gods is fine.

The loser can always try at a later date, or never get over it, etc. Lose the battle, still waging the war.

Note that this is not killing the other god. At most you'd 'weaken' them (this has no actual in-game effects aside from maybe taking whatever is being fought over). The same system is in use for killing, but you'd have to get the other to agree that you kill them.

By the by, I'm extending Nihil's domains to Knowledge quite soon. The libraries thing reminded me of it. I'm already 5/7 for it if the Crystal Seer ability counts towards Knowledge.

And if you missed it, we're now on our second rollover. That's more AP for everybody!

Should probably get someone to announce whenever the rollover happens.

And Melehan, regarding gaining those abilities, as a Fledgeling Deity, you're limited to having 1 Ability until you rank up. Choose wisely.

I see what you mean, though I think by the system the vampires aren't legit to begin with, as they directly oppose a divine mandate without using a scourge/boon.

I'm all for having to use a boon in order to complete them but I tink I have to further clarify a couple of things since when I say "vampire" there are a thousands of possible interpretations.

I am not really trying to antagonize anyone or "play to win". I just thought that Erande's champion delay and the fact that the seven girls live in a cave with no contact with the sun could spin a could rigin story for vampires.
Let me know if my action need adjusting.

P.S. I was wondering about alignment changes in the gods. are we free to switch alignment? I think with a little push, Jezebelle could completely fall into the pit of chaotic evil. I think the opposite is quite possible too, she could become a innocent and nurturing goddess of love and the arts if she's not compelled to act otherwise.

P.P.S. For example .. if she ever finds out she didn't get an invitation by Oenar... she's going to be royally pissed.