Kingmaker: Stolen Lands of the Shining

Game Master BloodWolven

That is going to turn up a few questions for me. I am a little lost with what's happening with the kingdom.

According to the Kingdom Sheet we have 2 hexes with 5 proposed on the Map. Is that up to date?

Also it looks like we have a fairly good Stability and zero Unrest. How is that translating to what we see walking around the capital. Are things as chaotic and unorganized as Doam seems to make it seem. I have just had the assumption that things are going smooth with the exception of a rabble rouser trying to stir up trouble, rumors of were creatures which we addressed, a cult that seems to have been addressed, a missing child we have found. Are things going well? Are things chaotic? Is it safe? Do people seem happy? What problems is the city or kingdom currently having beyond the missions we engaged on?

A few times in the past when back in the city including this time. I have mentioned meeting with the various wardens. At the time I assumed this was short hand for Quince is trying to get a handle on what's happening in the kingdom. Is that a good assumption? I am tying gauge if we are being a little too hands off? It seems that as players we have been handling a lot of Kingdom issues off screen as such I assumed that we were adequately addressing things or if not it was obvious and a need or dilemma would arise.

Also I revisited the Kingdom Rules and we are still very much a Barony as our kingdom is smaller than 20 hexes. So my title per the rules (which I also assume reflect how surrounding feudal kingdoms like Brevoy) would see us as a Barony. So I think that would likely be the proper title. I am not sure what reason we went with Duke and Duchess probably my mixing things up.

Also I revisited the Kingdom Rules and we are still very much a Barony as our kingdom is smaller than 20 hexes. So my title per the rules (which I also assume reflect how surrounding feudal kingdoms like Brevoy) would see us as a Barony. So I think that would likely be the proper title. I am not sure what reason we went with Duke and Duchess probably my mixing things up.

Forgive me replying to myself. I looked at the Kingdom sheet again and it says our Kingdom size is 11-25. I was mixing it up with we can claim 2 at a time. So I think that still keeps us as a Barony unless we have topped 20 hexes.

Which hexes have we claimed. I am happy to update the docs or maps to keep things straight.

First Cleo just wants to get a shop in the works of being built. She can't keep living out of the inn. Really once she has a work space she can start cranking stuff out! I wish I had more coin to just buy a lot of raw materials for her to pull from, but that isn't likely with how much she has at the moment.

Also, what other people have the ability to make magical items? Might be a good thing to know as even Quince doesn't seem aware of them.

The Kingdom might be doing well but the players have been a little short on cash.

Looking over our present list it looks like Sulvanii and the 3 unnamed enchanters are the only ones making magical items right now. With them: scrolls, potions, magical arms and armor, and wondrous items. If I remember correctly.

In the cathedral there are several clerics and a paladin, which will slowly make potions and scrolls.

That seems to be the norm of games like this, Kingmaker I mean.

Yeah see this is something that should be documented, as I chose those feats because it seemed no one else had them! Sulvanii doesn't have a character sheet so I had no idea what he was about, as he is labeled the Counselor position and not the Magister position. Normally I'd go off of magical items spots that are available but there was nothing on that on the kingdom sheet.

The sheet is up to date. I'm adding the claimed hexes. SO you can update the map with these as claimed hexes. 8,10,50,Hex Right of Olegs, 51, 2, 6, 40, 41, 4, 3, 1, Olegs, These ar the claimed Hexes so far.

Our Current size is 15.

These are the planned buildings to fill out our main district.

Academy, Garrison, Library, Barracks and Caster Tower our district is full.

I will do an in game post tonight or tomorrow on my daily stuff. I think we are ready to do Month 13 and set back out to explore well after we make sure everything is done in the kingdom with Gregory and the cult.

Hey! If you all have a caster's tower on the list make that and stick Cleo in it! She can sell out of the bottom floor, library can be in the second floor, and she'd live on the third floor.

The sheet is up to date. I'm adding the claimed hexes. SO you can update the map with these as claimed hexes. 8,10,50,Hex Right of Olegs, 51, 2, 6, 40, 41, 4, 3, 1, Olegs, These ar the claimed Hexes so far.

Our Current size is 15.

These are the planned buildings to fill out our main district.

Academy, Garrison, Library, Barracks and Caster Tower our district is full.

Awesome. I am counting 13 hexes. What are the last 2. I know we wanted to eventually get the Temple of the Elk within our domain so that is 2 hexes right there but they are forest.

Your counting system for hexes hurts me... Though that is just because I'm coming in half way and no when it was started! XD

Also seriously, I'm cool with taking a Caster's tower. Because if we continued down the idea of a magic shop it would remove one of the one lot buildings. Also when it comes to cost it is cheaper, a Magic Shop cost 68 BP! 68!! Against the 30 BP for the Caster's Tower. Though the trade off is obvious and worth it. A Magic shop gets you 4 minor wondrous items, 2 medium wondrous items, 1 major wondrous item. While a Caster's Tower gets you 3 minor items, 2 medium items.

Your counting system for hexes hurts me... Though that is just because I'm coming in half way and no when it was started! XD

Also seriously, I'm cool with taking a Caster's tower. Because if we continued down the idea of a magic shop it would remove one of the one lot buildings. Also when it comes to cost it is cheaper, a Magic Shop cost 68 BP! 68!! Against the 30 BP for the Caster's Tower. Though the trade off is obvious and worth it. A Magic shop gets you 4 minor wondrous items, 2 medium wondrous items, 1 major wondrous item. While a Caster's Tower gets you 3 minor items, 2 medium items.

Yeah the number system is a little wonky. Multiple hands made it and numbers have been added over time. I might need to be fixed. Well I am off for the summer so we will see. I am also trying to get my elementary education certification, get set up for a 5e campaign that I am running and I have convinced my school that a D&D club might be cool so I have a few irons in the fire.

I have hex maps for the whole AP that are player facing. I think it might be useful to clean up our map. Would that be helpful?

Not that we are there yet but I have all four sections of the Stolen Lands. For now it doesn't make sense to put switch to a larger view. That said though I might change the numbering system to "G#" for the Greenbelt Region as we expand to other sections of the expansions the can be "V#", "H" and so on.

We claimed Oleg's does that mean that we want to start a second town yet?

That is a really good idea and I support it! Also offer my help if it gets to be too much.

With what is already there, even with it being very little, I think it is already considered another town.

EDIT: Also I found some pictures that could be used for the caster's tower if we go that path.

Picture One

Picture Two

Picture Three

Not quite ready yet, I am going to see if I can get back into the game by the end of the July 4th weekend.

@Cleo, the 3rd one is my choice if you are asking for opinions.

I always ask for opinions! Also take your time man! Your health comes first.

Oleg's is a second town. That's why our size is 15. 13 Hexes and 2 settlements.

My original post that had these building listed: Academy, Garrison, Library, Barracks and Caster Tower our district is full. As what we would be finishing out our Main district with stated we would build up Olegs over the next year.

I updated the Map. I noticed a note on #47 "A call for help" I am not sure if that is there because we are aware of something over there. Did we explore some of those hexes and it didnt make the map? Or is it a Dm's note that we shouldn't know about yet?

Likewise the map shows 34 as unexplored but the legend has an abandoned fort there. Did we already explore that.

I cant remember and will look them both up tonight.

So I'm basing her math on the good and services listings, they don't have a builder or planner, but they do have how much a scribe is. The job wouldn't be too different in the amount of schooling done wise, so I went with assuming it would be about 5 gold a day to hire a planner to make the blueprints and instruct the workers on what to do. Though I'm fairly sure with the blueprints Cleo could instruct them. She smart enough to read them properly.

The extra workers would actually be cheaper, but the knowledge of how to make this type of building is the true goal here. As that knowledge could be used over and over again if taught to the workers by a professional.

What are we naming the town that was Oleg's trading post.

Oleg - seems obvious, the first citizen, so to speak, was a part of the government before he died.

Svetlana - I was thinking that when the time came I figured Oleg would want to name the town after his wife. Svetlana herself seems like she wanted free from the home life so I am not sure she remembers Oleg's foundly.

Promise - the town of Promise. I have a hard time thinking of a better name for a frontier town.

Hamletvilletonshiresburg - After starting many campaigns in a small town one of my groups just started naming all small towns Hamletvilletonshiresburg.

Bandit's Folly - colorful name remembering the place where the fight that brought down bandits started. Hop's Folly if you wan to be really dark.

Fort Oleg - Same name different flava.

Beofox - Kinda like Beowulf which was a combo of bear and wolf. Beofox is growing folk title for a certain Greenwatch Monarch who is a Fox (kitsune) from the House of the Bear (Medvyed). Quince of course would never pick this he is more humble than his player.

Pixie Crossing - coloquial name common to travelers who remark that heading south past Oleg's or into the Narlmarches is going to bring you in contact with Fey. Seeing as our court has a Sprite on its Warden Council and we have had a number of positive fey dealings . . . isn't way of the mark.

Erastilhold - It was one of the names in consideration for the capital. I think it might better serve as a rebuilt Temple of the Stag which might be our 3rd town.

Votes, suggestions?

Do I get a vote? Being so super new and all?

Also Beowulf actually just means bear. Beo means bee and wulf mean wolf so put it together it would mean beewolf i.e. bear.

Do I get a vote? Being so super new and all?

Also Beowulf actually just means bear. Beo means bee and wulf mean wolf so put it together it would mean beewolf i.e. bear.

Oops I must have misremembered/heard something. That was not a likely one for lots of votes anyway I think.

I have no issue with you voting your playing now.

Also might I suggest Portum? It is Latin for Haven. Which I would argue is what was given to the players and what they players now give to others.

Or maybe Oltlana? Half of Oleg's name and half of Svetlana's name. As it was their home.

Outside of the I like Bandit's Folly!

So I made a mistake in my math! I mixed of Scribe and Chronicler, a scribe is 1 gold or 10 gold per-day, 10 if you don't supply the ink and parchment, while a Chronicler is 5 gold per-day. So she could actually do much better that I thought building it herself. I was looking up how much it was for a day of skilled labor which is 3 so per day of work.

So if it takes a month to build, or 30 days, for a masons, carpenter, and maybe painter if she wants to get really fancy would be 270 silver or 27 gold total. I doubt the planner would have to be around for all 30 days, but even if so that would be 30-300 gold.

So yeah if the kingdom supplies the raw materials Cleonora can build a magic shop for no BP!

Also I'd throw in about 300 so or 30 more gold into that to hire just common laborers, about 10 bodies) at a silver a day to help the mason and carpenter.

All in all I'd say she's looking at 87 gold on the low end and 357 at the high end to build it. Without the cost of raw materials.

So who can we replace Jhod with. He seems not to want the job and be bad at it.

I am not sure what's going on with Sota yet. That might be a problem. So he might need a more traditional NPC there as he might be too zany.

Either position would be good for Cleo but it is soon IN Character to bring her in.

So that's 2 positions we are down.

Do we trust Alkron? He was an NPC wizard that was around for awhile. He left to study ruins. He might be someone we could tap for a replacement for Sota if the sprite isn't working out. Granted I can't stress enough I love that we have a sprite working for us. I would rather that work out. But if its not going to work out. We need options.

You could just try to interview her? You know, on the down low.

Have Tristan invite her for that drink he offered and everyone else just kinda show up! XD

That's an option. Though Tristan was suggesting I was being to trusting already. I have no doubt that you are destined to one of those positions. The Magister the most likely but as players we welcome you whole heartedly but In Character we have to be a little more careful.

I might suggest that Sota our sprite has recently lost some employees and if you are an enchanter you will likely end up interacting with him. If you can handle dealing with the Sprite and you seem an asset I would imagine when Sota wants to run wild or perhaps because he does run wild you would be a natural fit for the position.

I don't know if Cleo is the type to suffer sprites. That line alone makes me think of the movie Willow. When Mad Martigan looks at Willow and says, "You are crawling with brownies."

In other words if you and the GM agree you get a Sprite friend when you are in the capital until your officially hired in character (which isn't going to take long even in character as much as you are pitching in already and a few battles will likely make us thick as thieves).

I'm not saying give her the job immediately. The interview would just be to see if she would even be an option for the spot, not to get the spot!

More of an, is she even a possibility, than an, we want you to have this job. She's an unknown, but as at least two of the three characters know or have some idea already that is isn't your normal person and as such it wouldn't hurt to check her out even more. See what untapped resources are there.

So I'm basing her math on the good and services listings, they don't have a builder or planner, but they do have how much a scribe is. The job wouldn't be too different in the amount of schooling done wise, so I went with assuming it would be about 5 gold a day to hire a planner to make the blueprints and instruct the workers on what to do. Though I'm fairly sure with the blueprints Cleo could instruct them. She smart enough to read them properly.

The extra workers would actually be cheaper, but the knowledge of how to make this type of building is the true goal here. As that knowledge could be used over and over again if taught to the workers by a professional.

Yup so 5 gp a day. 4 weeks. 5x28= 140 gp.

So with your other post, how much are you going to spend?

Erastilhold for our 3rd city!!!

Bandit's Folly!

Cleonora Petalouda wrote:

So I'm basing her math on the good and services listings, they don't have a builder or planner, but they do have how much a scribe is. The job wouldn't be too different in the amount of schooling done wise, so I went with assuming it would be about 5 gold a day to hire a planner to make the blueprints and instruct the workers on what to do. Though I'm fairly sure with the blueprints Cleo could instruct them. She smart enough to read them properly.

The extra workers would actually be cheaper, but the knowledge of how to make this type of building is the true goal here. As that knowledge could be used over and over again if taught to the workers by a professional.

Yup so 5 gp a day. 4 weeks. 5x28= 140 gp.

So with your other post, how much are you going to spend?

I take it you didn't see the post where I commented I mixed up the Scribe and Chronicler. Chronicler is 5 gold per day while a Scribe is 3-30 gold per day. The 30 is for if you don't buy them supplies like ink and such, which I'd gladly buy because they're actually not that expensive.

So using the 4 weeks for each job.

Scribe 3-30x28= 48-840 gold, I'd be going for the 48 gold option.
Mason .3x28=8 gold 4 silver
Carpenter .3x28=8 gold 4 silver
Unskilled labor to help (.1x28)x10=28 gold

I'd also hire a painter to do the inside however at most that would be a week's worth of work.
Painter .3x7= 2 gold 1 silver

So in total it would be
48+8.4+8.4+28+2.1= 94 gold and 9 silver pieces for work alone add another 16 gold for two vials of ink and 2 gold pieces for 10 pieces of parchment for 112 gold and 9 silver.

NOTE: These totals do not add the cost for stone, timber, and such. Those are assumed to be given by the state as she is paying for the labor. If you need it in BP cost I'd put it a 1/3rd the BP cost of a Magic shop. As making things that are non-magical cost 1/3rd of the price. The rest is labor cost. So 22.6 so 23 BP.

Also if you curious on where I'm getting my numbers, it's from here

I am good until you start talking about BP and your note. Tristan and Quince do you get what she is saying?

BP, build points. The thing you get each month month to use to make building. Yeah those are called build points or BP, they cover the cost of raw materials such as lumber, stone, cloth, anything that would be needed to make and furnish the building in question along with labor to construct it.

She is offering her gold to offset the coast of the Caster Tower which will serve to house her magic shop if I am following.

Cleo are you saying that you are building the whole thing meaning we can use those BP for something else. Because you are spending the gold.

Actually it would just be straight up a magic shop, the better version of a caster's tower! But she isn't supplying to timber, stone, and such that would be needed to make the building. Just the manpower. So you don't have to spend the BP on that! The BP of a build it the total cost of said building. Labor, raw materials, tools, etc. She is supplying the labor, and the tools, she is not supplying the raw materials, wood, stone, etc. This would need to be supplied by the state through BP.

Example, you are a Smith, someone brings you the metal they want smithed into something. The Smith now doesn't need to pay the 1/3rd of the final product's cost because it was already supplied. Meaning the person who brought the metal is only paying for labor and would get whatever they had made at 2/3rds the cost.

The only difference between this example and and the build is, Cleo is paying for the labor. You just need to supply the timber and stone. In other words, Cleo is the Smith and supplying the labor, you all just bring the raw materials to the table.

Oh ok, so the 23 BP is the lumber and stone.

For the most part I leave the kindom making to the players. I try to be more active in this game though.

So you are covering 2/3rd of the cost. Which in Build Points is 20.

So we are spending 10 build points leaving us 20 to spend elsewhere.

Actually it would be 22.6 BP, rounded up to 23 BP. As, once more, it is a magic shop, not a caster's tower. You guys will get the better version of the magic item place! The remaining BP, is being paid, by Cleo through the labor she it going to go get.

Edit: Going with the magic shop of the caster's tower this way makes it more affordable to the kingdom, and gets you more magical times to be sold! Which we'll have to roll for once it is complete... But the magic shop gets you more magical items over the caster's tower. If you want to go with the caster's tower because of the 10 BP over the 23 BP, that's fine. It can still be done. Though this way you would be getting the magic shop for a lesser price and it is the most expensive of the two. She can work out of either! No problem. I just figured people would want the larger one over the smaller one.

I didn't see a Magic Shop on the list. I went with the BP cost of the Caster Tower. I don't doubt you how is it better.

It costs 68 BP. If you are paying 23 BP We are picking up 45 BP.

Tristan has listed in the past what have bought but I don't know what we have or what we have to spend at the moment.

I'm using this site for building, so they have the buildings from the Ultimate Campaign book, not just the Kingmaker book.

Cleo is the Smith remember? She's providing the remaining 2/3rd which is labor! Thus, you only need to bring the remaining 1/3rd of raw materials! The total cost is 68, but the raw materials is only 1/3rd of that cost. And that is all you are responsible for. She is paying the mason, carpenter, builder, and extra labor.

I posted before what the magic shop gives you over the caster's tower. I'll post it again, a magic shop gives you the following, 4 minor wondrous items, 2 medium wondrous items, 1 major wondrous item, Economy +1. A caster's tower gives you, 3 minor items, 2 medium items, Economy +1, Loyalty +1.

So, this is how we're going to solve this because the price on Cleo's end doesn't change. Choose either Magic Shop or Caster's tower, pay 23 BP for Magic Shop, or 10 BP for Caster's tower.

Yeah that's the site I was using too but when I click on the link the words "Magic Shop" are up just off screen so I was looking for it but missing it right infront of my face. *facepalm*

Looks like that would be a bargain considering I think Tristan had already figured 30 for the Caster's Tower already.

Oh it really would! Better magical items and more of them help greatly to making money! Which I can turn around and use on the group or the settlement!

Yeah so a few things. Magic shops break the game in wealth. We are not doing that. I have played Kingmaker probably 10 times or so. Our first playthrough was when it was first published. We soon realized the value in magic items and our settlement looked foolish just filled with magic shops. Wolf gives us plenty of cool things. We don't need to go all Montey Hall and break the wealth system. The caster tower is just to finish out the district and it makes sense to have some caster/wizardy spots. Not interested in the magic item slots. We will be ignoring them no matter the building.

Also you're trying to mix systems. I'm not sure what you're doing. A magic shop is 68BP. Players can add BP to the kingdom at a cost of 4,000gp each so you have or are making up 92,000gp of cost somehow?

Finally, a Magic Shop has to be adjacent to two houses. We don't have an are for that in this district. We also only have 31BP to start turn 13. We just upgraded to Cathedral so now we have a discount on the Academy so it will cost us 26BP. We made 29BP last turn so I suspect to have around 35ish or so BP after building the Academy this turn.

The Academy has magic item slots and is a place of higher learning. I suggest you run your shop from there and teach. You should probably live in the castle with the rest of us but if you want to make the Caster Tower your residence after it's built that's fine.

Oleg's is currently Oleg's Hold on the sheet. Not sure if we named it in the past or what. I like Promise. How about Fort Promise?

I like Fort Promise.

There has been a few votes for Bandits Folly too.

I like;

1. Fort Promise (Since it shows both Promise and the Warden's promise to the region).
2. Erastilhold (Kev does too ... lol)

I can get behind Fort Promise! I like Bandit's Folly more but that's just because I like the word Folly. It a fun word to say, like toast.

Also I'll be answering Tristan's questions here shortly. That post is just going to take forever because I have to type while pausing to do my job. I'm at work today...

I hadn't considered the other differences between the shop and the tower. In character I have been pushing for education being important. So its probably a good thing if our choices include the possibility for education to occur.

I would be happy with Fort Promise or Bandit's Folly.

Options

1- Wolf can pick between.

2- Or the Town of Fort Promise (Which I would suggest Svetlana name it that). Some local NPC tavern keeper can open a one day famous tavern called Bandit's Folly (his signpost is set at the base of the execution stump for the few bandits so many literal years ago).

Yeah I'm at work too.

We can have both towns. Olegs Outpost is already Fort Like though so that was why I suggested it. Our next Town can be Bandit's Folly.

Yeah so a few things. Magic shops break the game in wealth. We are not doing that. I have played Kingmaker probably 10 times or so. Our first playthrough was when it was first published. We soon realized the value in magic items and our settlement looked foolish just filled with magic shops. Wolf gives us plenty of cool things. We don't need to go all Montey Hall and break the wealth system. The caster tower is just to finish out the district and it makes sense to have some caster/wizardy spots. Not interested in the magic item slots. We will be ignoring them no matter the building.

You're ignoring the magic item slots? I honestly thought you all had just been forgetting to put them on the sheet like you had forgotten to update the map of the Stolen Lands. How is it that you sell magic items then? You can't sell potions, wands, scrolls, etc without them and the limit the amount you're allowed to sell as a balancer. Unless you're just saying you can still sell them and there is no limiter, in which cause it doesn't matter what Cleo's shop is because she can sell as many magical items as she wants so long as she had the gold to pay for the materials. If I'm reading what you're saying here correctly? I may have misunderstood? Let me know if so.

Also you're trying to mix systems. I'm not sure what you're doing. A magic shop is 68BP. Players can add BP to the kingdom at a cost of 4,000gp each so you have or are making up 92,000gp of cost somehow?

Actually they are all one system. The pathfinder system, but I think I get what you're saying? Don't want to cross books? Maybe? I'm unsure, correct me if I'm wrong here. Also that part about putting BP in from your own coin is for those holding position of power. Cleo doesn't have access to that. She can neither put coin in nor pull coin out. Thus the only way Cleo can build anything it is use the system Pathfinder set up to hire people to do it! That the only course she has left. Ultimate Campaign gives you the building, and ultimate Equipment gives you the cost of labor in all it's forms. Till Cleo is a member of the Wardens it's the only thing she has...

Finally, a Magic Shop has to be adjacent to two houses. We don't have an are for that in this district. We also only have 31BP to start turn 13. We just upgraded to Cathedral so now we have a discount on the Academy so it will cost us 26BP. We made 29BP last turn so I suspect to have around 35ish or so BP after building the Academy this turn.

The Academy has magic item slots and is a place of higher learning. I suggest you run your shop from there and teach. You should probably live in the castle with the rest of us but if you want to make the Caster Tower your residence after it's built that's fine.

You realize you could have just said there is no two adjacent houses and the Magic shop would have been out be default. Also we might want to label the city map better. Outside of the large obvious pictures I am having trouble telling what is what from the rest. I'm fairly sure I know the water mill and smithies, but only because it says there is three and there are three identical pictures... I also think I know where the stable it? If it is in the top left corner second square down. Or just have someone go through them with me! That way I know what is where. It would help! XD

If you want to offer Cleo a teaching job then you'd want to bring that up sooner, like... now (because she's leaving at dawn), rather than later. Though I don't know how she can live in the castle without being a member of the Wardens. That seems a little off. At least this early. I mean you all don't know much about her and Tristan has rightfully so voiced his hesitation on the matter! Because I want to reiterate, this is totally understandable and expected! I'd be more worried if you just threw arms open wide and pushed her into a respectable position day 1! So would Cleo... She'd be wondering if you where secretly setting her up for something. That's the type of person she is. She's nice, but totally has a voice in the back of her head. And if you build the Caster's tower and want that to be where she stays I will not argue! That's fine. Because in the end, it means I don't have to pay for anything. Depending on if she has joined the Wardens or not by then.