Kingmaker [PbP] (Inactive)

Game Master Jeff Przybylo

While I feel that Edric is in no way violating the paladin code by attacking a blinded enemy to get through him (if the man's still trying to fight, and he's in the paladin's way, he's a fair combatant, no matter what debuffs the wizard put on him), the attitude of "In the heat of combat, a paladin's code doesn't matter as much" sounds like something an ex-paladin would say. You've got to be unflinching, always, or you're outta there.

But in this situation, nothing dishonorable has been done. You're fine.

Sorry I didn't get to it last night, still busy with the search and family stuff.

I think Naralesh is spot on here. You don't get to turn it on and off based on circumstance. That's the RP challenge of the paladin, your code defines your life at all times. Magna chose to not kill Kaalib out of hand because he didn't do anything 'evil'. But she certainly hasn't stopped watching him. The point I was making by challenging Edric about the blind bandit is that there are options. He doesn't have to kill him to achieve the goal of getting to the Stag Lord.

Have patience will get going again. Hopefully tonight.

I wouldn't suggest that the Paladin's Code doesn't matter in the heat of combat. A paladin who starts stabbing helpless opponents or executing people trying to surrender fall's faster than aviation stock after 9/11. The problem I have is when you think from the point of view of what is actually happening. In the middle of a ferocious, multi person melee a huge burst of light went off and has distracted the opponent. Any trained warrior will strike in that situation, not stop and check whether its possible to not strike...

Divergence of mechanics and realism though - which is inevitable in a game where you can create an exploding disco ball in mid-air!

Mechanically the least lethal way is preferable for sure so let's go with the overrun - either with the attack roll or the one I rolled here whichever works for you OGGM.

Thinking some more about Edric and his specific form of paladin good-ness: Edric sees good on a personal level rather than a larger community/society one. To him the first thing will be good for the individual, meaning he's more likely to pardon a bandit who shows repentence than to hang him as an example to others because mercy is good on a personal level, using him as an example will be good on a broader level but that's not the level Edric considers goodness. If confronted with the burning orphanage/evil overlord dilemma he'd go to the orphanage because that would be doing good rather than removing evil, which is a slightly more meta version of doing good.

...and if the orphanage were run by kobolds, orcs and goblins, Magna would likely be the one who set fire to it ;-)

More seriously, though, that's a really nice take on the paladin code & completely in keeping with Desna.

Been enjoying the discussion on paladin. I agree with Edric, without spellcraft roll he has little idea what happened to the bandit in front of him.

My favourite paladin was so strong on redemption that she went to extraordinary lengths to keep all her enemy alive so, since dead people can't redeem themselves.

I mean, the wizard did just shout a spell, so he might be able to at least GUESS. Hehe.

Man! That battle just went from "dire" to "we have the upper hand" in about the blink of an eye!

On the topic of paladins:
My main PFS paladin (the one who isn't a ridiculous multiclass abomination) has reached level ten without killing a single creature (with the exception of fiends, undead, and evil dragons, of which he has personally slain two). He specializes in nonlethal damage and intimidate - taking a Batman-like approach with the assumption that it's better to scare villains into giving up their crimes than to kill them and never give them a chance at redemption. And he looks the part - a half-demon (literally... the left half is demonic, his right side looks human) with spiked armor, a fiendish dire wolf companion (actually a hound archon who he rescued from a nearly-complete transformation into a demon) and lots of fire magic (from the Fire domain) including a burning attack from his eyes. More than one villain has given up a life of crime after Micah Halfknight, Silver Crusader, puts the fear of justice in 'em!

Man! That battle just went from "dire" to "we have the upper hand" in about the blink of an eye!

That tells you that both sides were teetering on the edge. A couple of disarms, a good die roll or two, and things shifted your way. If my second sneak hits Vosil (he's dead), and I get good backstab damage on Naralesh (he's dead), and this thing has a whole different ending.

Think about it: Vosil disarmed the Stag Lord, who is a ranger /rogue with human as a favored enemy. With his bow, there's a good chance he would've killed Edric. Without Naralesh's direction for the elementals, Akiros and Dovan most likely take down Magna. Four of you dead or incapacitated (Vosil, Magna, Edric, Naralesh), leaving Talia, Kaalib, Asha, Dregan. 3/4 are human, making them prime targets for the Stag Lord.

Result: bad ending for the PCs.

Yeah. That was the epic, climactic, uncertain finish I think we were all hoping for. This has been an incredible battle.

Man! That battle just went from "dire" to "we have the upper hand" in about the blink of an eye!

Yeah, about that: if someone else could take the Stag Lord's undivided attention for the next few rounds, I'd be very grateful. And alive.

:-)

Naralesh wrote:

Man! That battle just went from "dire" to "we have the upper hand" in about the blink of an eye!

Yeah, about that: if someone else could take the Stag Lord's undivided attention for the next few rounds, I'd be very grateful. And alive.

:-)

On it! ;)

Naralesh wrote:

Man! That battle just went from "dire" to "we have the upper hand" in about the blink of an eye!

Yeah, about that: if someone else could take the Stag Lord's undivided attention for the next few rounds, I'd be very grateful. And alive.

:-)

I tried but apparently he is a very focused man/thing

Well, that helm of his seems to magically protect him from blindness, so my strongest trick is used up. I think I can come up with something else though...

Play to his sense of vanity? That's Talia's approach.

Re: Paladins. Nice discussion, but there's a reason I don't play them*.

*The 2 sp per level. What did you think I was going to say?

the mouthy Varisian seems to have drawn most of the Stag Lord's ire. Not surprising.

You wound me - oh no, wait, that was the Stag Lord with the sneak attack damage I took fighting to establish your kingdom.

Yeesh. Nobles. Where's the gratitude?

;-)

I'm with you on skill points, BTW. Vosil gets 7/level and it's nothing like enough.

Magna has to thank Naralesh and his elementals for her survival.

Magna has to thank Naralesh and his elementals for her survival.

It was my distinct pleasure. Teamwork!

Yes, great effort, Team Us! (need to work on the name...)

Quick question about dim light: would it overcome the 20% miss chance if I set the Stag Lord alight with alchemist's fire?

Like the old saying goes: Give a man a fire and you warm him for a day; set fire to him and he'll be warm for the rest of his life...

Well, unless the Stag Lord has enough hit points to survive a roughly 36 damage crit, I think we have a gift for our undead friend Nettles...

W00t! We won!

Great post, OGGM. And 4th level too!

If anyone needs the UC kingdom rules, they're on the d20pfsrd (here). Kinda lengthy, but I'm willing to do the paperwork unless someone else wants to volunteer...

Sweet, 4th level! I'm really happy with this battle OGGM - you did a great job of keeping things very tense, and the bad guys were memorable (though Talia is going to do her best to wipe the Stag Lord from the histories, as she promised/threatened him with the possibility).

Vosil, since I've already got the map, I'm more than happy to give the kingdom paperwork to someone else. Thanks for taking this on!

Busy couple of days here coming up - I hope to get leveled up soon. In the meantime, besides the kingdom-building rules, there's a little bit of stuff Talia would like to take care of. Dropping the SL off at Nettles' Crossing on the way home, and then writing our sponsors to the north a detailed report, including sending a revised charter that adds Kaalib, Edric, and Vosil, and removes Gavriil.

What else do we need to do?

I think Kaalib said he was going to drop out after the battle due to RL issues. Need to verify though.

Sure, but regardless of the RL issues, Talia would put him on the charter, since he's proven to her his loyalty, and he's her king-in-waiting if Chief Sootscale begins to backslide.

Oh, and loot, what's the loot shakeout looking like? And Talia has with her the wanted poster for Falgrim Sneed - she'll be looking at the living and the dead for him. I'm just going to have to get a gameplay post up ASAP I think...

Talia - no problem; I might add a couple tabs to the existing spreadsheet, rather than create a new one, if that's OK?

^ Of course! I think it is editable by anyone. If not, let me know.

I posted quite a bit of loot and sundry. You will be busy for a bit. What I posted is the entirety of what you could find, this will speed things up a bit, as we won't have to post searches, etc.

I might be able to keep up with kingdom building stuff, but I might have times for the next half year or so where I'll be out for four or five days at a time. Kingdom building is something I'm pretty interested in, and something that doesn't necessarily need quick posts, so I can stay involved in that. It's the adventuring that I'd have problems keeping up with, as I wouldn't want to slow down the game. I know how frustrating that can be.

Even though at 4th level, I just got scorching rays for up to 8d6+8 damage... sigh.

Also, I based draconic on Russian. Just thought it was fun.

OK, I'm going to start with the spreadsheet, and get some RP going on rulership stuff. Does anyone have a good name for the Kingdom?

So we will keep Kaalib for the Kingdom part, and some special occasions?
I am glad you don't withdraw completely.
Ask me about it. Things change, and maybe in the future you can rejoin in full, as I did.

I am extremely excited to be level four, and even more excited to finally get into the kingdom building. While I do not have the time to be our spreadsheet-wrangler, I have done this before and I will probably have some good suggestions about how to effectively grow our budding nation.

I like Vosil's suggestion of "Fort Concord," for the former bandit fortress. Sounds better than Unity, I think.

Assuming that our first settlement builds off of Oleg's trading post - I suggest we name it "Leveton," after our generous hosts. It sort of sounds like the name of a town already.

This is where you really need to get into the rules for the kingdom. There are benefits to building at each site (and there are 3), but they are very different benefits. Here they are:

Oleg's: The trading post is a versatile structure built to serve as a place of business. If the PCs decide to found a city in this hex, they can incorporate Oleg’s as a free Shop, Stable, or Watchtower in their city grid (once chosen, the function of Oleg’s within the new city cannot be changed).

Temple of the Elk: Although the Temple of the Elk is partially ruined, building a city here gives the PCs a head start on a Temple, halving the initial cost of building such a structure.

Stag Lord's Fort: Located at the heart of the Greenbelt on a defensible hill near a plentiful source of water, fishing, and trade, the Stag Lord’s Fort may be the single best place to place a capital city. The fort itself gives the PCs a head start on building a castle, halving the initial cost of such a structure. In addition, if the PCs make this site their capital city, their nation gains a +1 bonus on Economy, Loyalty, and Stability due to its centralized location and ease of defense.

We will run Kingdom building here in Discussion when it's time. We aren't there yet. You can get the basic discussions done here, while you level, I will kick it off soon enough.

Gotta say the Stag Lord's fort seems like the obvious place to build. No reason we can't establish 'Fort Leveton' or some such later on but the initial advantages of the fort seem overwhelming from economic and military perspectives. Also means we have to deal with those Zombies permanently, which would be a priority for Edric anyway.

I would like to see us claim the Stag Lord's fort as well for our capital. Natural beauty, access to fresh water, military fortification, mechanical bonuses... what is not to like?

I'd like to see us work north from the fort claiming the gold mine, the temple, and working towards Oleg's, to give us a post on the border of Brevoy.

Of course, in terms of our kingdom, we should claim that the entirety of the Greenbelt is ours, even if it is not mechanically the case, to ward off any ursurpers.

I'd like to see us work north from the fort claiming the gold mine, the temple, and working towards Oleg's, to give us a post on the border of Brevoy.

Of course, in terms of our kingdom, we should claim that the entirety of the Greenbelt is ours, even if it is not mechanically the case, to ward off any usurpers.

I believe the Swordlord's charter requires you (not us yet... :P) to explore the whole greenbelt, so claiming it fits.

OK, place our capital at Fort Concord to get those sweet, sweet bonuses, then move North to claim Leveton (I like it! As Nara says, already sounds like a town name) - and the gold mine (heh. Thought that might get a mention from Talia!). The temple can follow as we spread East.

Talia: did you mark the bridges/fords and so on? I'd like to get a town to guard each of those in due course.

Also - stupid question time. Which hex is the Stag Lord's fort Fort Concord in?

Also, also - our fledgling kingdom still needs a name!

Toragland, of course! :P

Our fledgling kingdom is still in need of a name! :P

Pretty sure Fort Concord is located in C6 or D6. We'll still need to explore it.

I forgot to mark the fords. They are noted in the text above the map. Rope bridge is D4, fords are A5 and D5. I'll get the fords marked ASAP, probably Thursday.

Names:

New Rostland, All That is Good and Beautiful, Home of House Khavortorov.

I'm mostly kidding. Don't mind New Rostland too much, though of course there's political implications there.

Stag's End?
Stagland?
Staglund?
Stagsholme?
Stag's Rest?
Kingdom of the Stag?

I like the idea of using the Stag Lord as a twist on a name, without actually mentioning why he's used in any of the official lore, a final FU to the guy.

Green Land (nicknamed "The Belt")?
The Green Duchy?
Baronet of the Green?

The Stag Lord's fort is located on the banks of the Tuskwater.

Tuskland?
Tusklund?
Barony of the Tusk?

I dunno, just spitballing...

OK, Loot. Please start laying claim to things:

Potions:
- cure light wounds (2)
- cure moderate wounds (3)
- restoration, lesser (1)

My unasked for opinion: Front-liners grab the mods, Dregan and Nara take the clw's, one of the pallies hangs onto the restoration.

Armor:

- leather +1 (sell value 580 gp)
- MW studded leather (sell value 175)
- MW chainmail (sell value 150)
- Shield, heavy steel (sell value 10)
- leather (5 suits, sell value 25)

Weapons:

- MW longsword (sell value 157.5)
- Composite longbow +1 (+2 STR) (sell value 1337.5)
- Arrows (300, sell value 7.5)
- Rapier +1 (sell value 1160)
- Daggers (3, sell value 3)
- Longsword +1 (sell value 1157.5)
- Composite longbow (+2 STR) (sell value 100 gp)
- Magical beast bane arrows +1 (probably better kept?)
- club (no value)
- longbows (10, sell value 375)
- shortswords (5, sell value 25)
- spears (5, sell value 5)

Misc:

- amulet of natural armor +1 (sell value 1000)
- knight and dragon toys (sell value 22.5)
- 50' rope (4)
- Chisels
- Hammers (2)
- Iron nails, tins (3)

Coin, Gems, Jewelry, etc.

- Coinage: 1780.2
- Gems: 216*
- Jewelry: 3180
- Trade Goods: 6850

* azurite (9), carnelian (80), hematite (13), obsidian (14), red garnet (100)

** Incudes misc jewelry (2900), pewter belt buckle depicting two succubus (30), turquoise earrings (130), silver charm bracelet (60), iron ring (?), silver holy symbol of Erastil (?, for Asha?), 3 Stag Lord Amulets (20 each).

The misc jewelry could include Svetlana's ring, and we don't know if the iron ring found in the Stag Lord's room is magical or worthless.

Claiming:

Talia would like the masterwork studded leather. She'd also like, if we've gotten Falgrim Sneed, one of the masterwork weapons commissioned as a reward to be a scorpion whip.

She'll probably be taking a large cut of her coin in jewelry, and would like the turquoise earrings to be part of that.

Anyone object?

Level up:

+1 BAB, ref, will

+7 hp

fcb: spell (tap inner beauty)

9 skills: artistry (writing, 2); diplomacy, intimidate, know local, linguistics (undercommon), perception, perform (act), sense motive

spells known: glitterdust, suggestion

Wow I go to sleep and wake up to huge number of messages.

Levelling up
+1 BAB, fort and refl
HP ? Will look up post soon

Skill point 7 probably +1 to each of current skills but will look at soon

+1 rangers focus and tracking

Terrain bond: everyone get ranger bonuses in my favoured terrain (Forrest) and well as +2 Inititve and leaving no tracks.

1 first level spell/day

I believe the Swordlord's charter requires you (not us yet... :P) to explore the whole greenbelt, so claiming it fits.

Not you yet, but very soon. It is at the top of Talia's to do list :)

I want to get into all the details soon, but I'm struggling with a bad cold and a busy day, so it'll be a day or so before I can really get a post in and read through all this.

I am thrilled to be moving into the next phase of our journey with you all!

Thanks for doing that list, Talia! Very helpful.

I'll gladly take a CMW potion to replace the CLW I used in the fight.

None of the armour is any better than what I've got (I can't wear medium armour so the chainmail's not an option); I'd be interested in the amulet of natural armour.

None of the weaponry is particularly useful either (I'm not a damage dealer, so even a +1 longsword isn't going to do much in my hands) but I'd be interested in getting a masterwork whip, assuming that we did indeed nab Falgrim Whatsit.

Not fussed about anything else, I'm going to save up for things that I do want.

And what Naralesh said, I'm really pleased to be part of such a fantastic group! Congrats to OGGM on running everything so well.

Ok, time to pick a role (with or without additional role-play, although the prospective Ruler(s) should say something, I feel).

They are as follows:

Ruler: Charisma (Edric/Magna/Talia?)
Councillor: Charisma or Wisdom (Edric?)
General: Charisma or Strength (Magna?)
Grand Diplomat: Charisma or Intelligence (Talia?)
High Priest: Charisma or Wisdom
Magister: Charisma or Intelligence (Naralesh?)
Marshall: Dexterity or Wisdom (Dregan?)
Spymaster: Dexterity or Intelligence (Vosil)
Treasurer: Intelligence or Wisdom (Kaalib?)
Warden: Constitution or Strength

We MUST fill all the above, on pain of penalties. Nobody can fill more than one. So...we're going to need some friendly, trustworthy NPCs!

There are in addition some optional roles that give bonuses but no penalty if they are vacant:

Consort(!)
Heir(!!!)
Royal Assassin *cough* Enforcer
Viceroy

Spymaster was the only one I had considered apart from Magister, so Magister it is for Natalesh. Talia is gonna be the ruler - Magna might want it in-character but we all know she'll make a much better General.

Edric would be a fine diplomat, as he's apparently from everywhere - not a lot of Brevic Shoanti Ustalavians out there.

Asha for High Priest. I'd like Erastil to be the religion of choice, though we would actively encourage all non-evil faiths.

Ok, some side notes that I will mention here, then cover in game as well:

1. Svetlana's ring is not in this loot.
2. Falgrim Sneed is indeed here. He is one of the bandits you captured.
3. You don't have the authority, yet, to rule this place but you all know it's coming. You have 2 trusty NPCs right now: Asha and Kesten Garess. There's a reason there are avatars for those two. Dashedly clever, that!
4. D5 has a bridge, the fort is in C6. I've cut a copy of the map for you. Talia, this map conatins ALL of the terrain you have not yet explored including row 7. As there are no set encounters left, you can finish out the map at your leisure.
5. The map for the next part runs south of where you are now - so row 8, 9, etc. Talia will have to figure how to add more to it. Dimensionally it will be the same as the first map.

Down with food poisoning will be back with you as soon as I can.