We still waiting an eidolon scouting report?
Sounds good. Just remember Carina can't be more than 40 feet from Tanith.
I'm not sure who made the current marching order but since Carina is sorta squishy I am gonna rearrange it a bit. New order: Farrukh, Tanith, Astraden (darkvision), Eben, Carina (darkvision), Rodrigo?
I don't think that was so much a marching order as 'random placement of icons when KC set the map up', so yes, go right on ahead and do that. Feel free to move Eben in front of Astraden, too, if you'd prefer.
The only considerations I had when placing figurines were shield other and Farrukh staying clear of Rodrigo (though there's not any particular drawback he'd suffer for not doing so, unless he's secretly a modron).
I'm about to catch the bus. I'll try to get a post up in the next few hours.
Sorry I haven't posted recently. I'm on the bus right now; I will post when I can.
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I'm not sure who made the current marching order but since Carina is sorta squishy I am gonna rearrange it a bit. New order: Farrukh, Tanith, Astraden (darkvision), Eben, Carina (darkvision), Rodrigo?I don't think that was so much a marching order as 'random placement of icons when KC set the map up', so yes, go right on ahead and do that. Feel free to move Eben in front of Astraden, too, if you'd prefer.
I figured we might want someone with darkvision up front. Otherwise, the spot's all yours.
The only reason I encourage Farrukh to stay away from Rodrigo is that anything he attacks in the radius gets the AC bonus.
So, on the subject of initiative—I agree. Group initiative has some real balance issues, and the problem is simply that your enemies don't need as rounded a party as you guys do. They suffer way less from the averaging as a result (and since monsters tend to have Improved Initiative, that's a big problem). It will only get worse as you get higher level.
That said, ordinary initiative still carries the drawback of majorly slowing things down. And while "roll 'em, post 'em, and order them out afterwards" is a decent compromise, it does sometimes lead to confusion thanks to out-of-order posting.
So here's my suggestion: We make some rules modifications.
First, any effect that gives a single character a bonus to initiative instead gives half its bonus to the block initiative.
Second, we enable Action Points for initiative. Put simply, any one PC can choose to spend an Action Point to add +1d6 to the roll. This could lead to some real delays, though, so I'm thinking one PC would be assigned as a "pointsmaster" to decide if the expenditure would be made. Unless the players establish otherwise, this deciding player would by default be the PC with the highest initiative bonus. That saves us from having to wait for everyone to confirm they don't want to spend an AP before the fight can start.
That said, ordinary initiative still carries the drawback of majorly slowing things down. And while "roll 'em, post 'em, and order them out afterwards" is a decent compromise, it does sometimes lead to confusion thanks to out-of-order posting.
I'm game for whatever you think makes the most sense but I prefer this. This is what we've been using in SD and it works the majority of the time without invalidating individuals investing in going first.
.First, any effect that gives a single character a bonus to initiative instead gives half its bonus to the block initiative.
So while I have cat's grace up on me, our group initiative gets a +1? Does that stack if multiple party members have a dex boost?
I do averages and haven't had any major issues. Here's how I do it...
All the PCs roll, add their totals and divide by number of PCs, that's the party's block.
All monsters with identical stats roll, add together, divide by number of those monsters. That's their block.
Each kind of monster gets a block.
Not sure if that's different from what you've been doing at all.
I just roll all PC Initiatives myself, order them (put in a Spoiler what the order is, and copy paste that onto every one of my posts), and have everyone post then re-order them as needed.
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In this game, it's almost always just two blocks, and the bonuses are averaged before rolling. This leads to more variance in our block's final score than averaging after rolling.
I would support something like what Jelani is proposing, but perhaps without separate blocks for each monster type. Reallyyy don't like the confusion that comes with "post when you can and we sort it out at the end of the round." It would especially suck for people like Jelani and DankeSean and I, since we frequently have long periods where we're not available to check - if we roll low, but are available right when the new round goes up, then we have to post without any clue what everyone else is doing before us. Plus (in the one game I played using this method, at least) it seems like half of all combats end with three people posting how much damage they deal to the monster, and how many status effects they apply to it, only to be invalidated by the one person who goes before them and knocks the monster out cold. S+~@'s disappointing.
Me, I just bite the bullet and roll initiatives for each PC. If there's different groups of monsters (for example, two goblins & two orcs) then I'll roll initiatives for two monster groups and have them go in the order they rolled.
And if the monsters all go before/after the PCs, then the PCs take their actions in the order they post in.
On second thought, I kinda like what Jelani's proposing as well. It allows everyone's Initiative modifier to matter, without some people expressly dragging down the average, or others with high Init mods being invalidated.
So instead of vs essentially meaning we go last on every average combat.
We have:
vs or result 15 vs result 13?
A bit more work for KC and it only really evens it out a little bit though.
Honestly, I would rather keep what we're doing (and perhaps adjust for the imbalance) than switch to a style that slows the PbP down. Alternatively, I'm not a huge fan of reordering after the fact, but it may be the best alternative.
DankeSean, only initiative-specific abilities would be affected. It'd be solely to bail out abilities like Favored Terrain or traits like Reactionary.
It could be capped at the highest initiative bonus. So, if everyone got II, and Astraden had the highest at a +8, the highest your collaborated bonus could get would be +8. I don't think people would actually try that, though. It's not tidy enough for PFS, but it could work for a homegame to make the feat somewhat relevant again. :P
If we do switch to the "sort them out after" style, it will obviously begin after the conclusion of this adventure.
My way doesn't punish people with high init mods either. But I don't really have a problem with doing it the way we are now either.
Doesn't your way basically average things out to 10.5+average init, though? It seems like it accomplishes the exact same thing as a single roll + average init, unless I'm making a critical math failure (which is pretty possible this early in the morning).
I've got a question:
Would I be able to salvage an enemy alchemist's bombs to replenish my own supply?
Nice idea, but no. :P
An alchemist's bomb, like an extract, becomes inert if used or carried by anyone else.
Alrighty then.
If the gaze attack functions like a Charm Person, does that mean Carina still needs to make a save? Charm Person affects humanoid creatures, and Carina's a native outsider...
I'm willing to make the roll. I'd just like to clarify this before I do.
RAW, no.
I've heard word that native outsiders are immune to humanoid-based effects like Charm Person (and we'll tackle that when we come to it).
And now the time has come, it seems.
I'm not inclined to let native outsiders get this benefit, regardless of RAW. I think it's too much, especially considering that planetouched in particular are mostly humanoid. Plus, if it were intended, it would mean that immunity to an enormous number of effects is equivalent to 1 RP on the Race Builder.
I don't know. I personally find it unpalatable, and I have ever since I first heard about it.
Alright then.
Note that this is both a boon and a downside, since you can benefit from buffs like Enlarge/Reduce Person and whatnot now too.
I think we're just waiting on KC now.
So what light sources do you guys have up right now?
Light and Dancing Lights.
I put a proposed marching order on the map. The archons and Tanith can maintain elevation directly above peoples' heads:
ArT ArAr
F AsE C R
(Ar=lantern archon, T=Tanith, F=Farrukh, As=Astraden, E=Eben, C=Carina, R=Rodrigo.)
Obviously we wouldn't actually have Eben standing in the middle of the stream.
If the archons could drop aid on each of us that would definitely be good.
I'm not sure if Rodrigo missed my request or just ignored it. =P
No. Summoned creatures' initiative doesn't affect the group's.
I'm not sure if Rodrigo missed my request or just ignored it. =P
No idea what you're talking about. Honestly I've been having a tough time maintaining the pace you guys keep recently. When I sit down to update/read 12-15 games and this one has 20-30 new posts waiting a lot of them end up getting skimmed.
I know the timezone thing is rough. Sorry if it felt like I was poking fun at you. =(
I posted OOC here.
Tanith (or, rather, a disembodied voice speaking up somewhere behind Tanith) had inquired earlier about getting some aid spells laid down on the group while the lanterns were still around.
On another note, can we give Astraden a credit or something on the loot sheet to reflect her sacrificing her dagger?
Yeah, we'll split the cost on the next payout. Was it just a +1 dagger?
Just +1 yeah.
I know the timezone thing is rough. Sorry if it felt like I was poking fun at you. =(
I posted OOC here.
Aid would be worthless to anyone under a heroism. However, I guess since they can cast it at will the THP make it worthwhile. Everyone gets 1d8+3 temporary HP and +1 moral bonus to hit and saves versus fear.
The attack bonus is just a bonus. I've always considered the temps the best part of the 'lantern army' strategy.
Yar, Temp HP are the big deal here.
I'll update soon. Just keeping up with other business.
I've never done the lantern army thing before. Usually go for big cats. But in these cramped spaces it seemed stupid.
So, when people are capable of seeing in magical darkness but not normal darkness, a darkness spell has been cast on an already dark area, and dancing lights is the only source of light, what happens?
One answer: The dancing lights sheds light only those with ebon eyes can see, allowing them proper vision.
Other answer: Those with ebon eyes can see through the darkness, but not the darkness, and the dancing lights are still suppressed, so everything is terrible.
I'll probably go with Option A, just because ebon eyes is a fairly one-note spell to begin with.
The dancing lights is suppressed and ebon eyes kicks in.
See my edit. Even though ebon eyes allows you to see through the magical darkness, it has no effect on the darkness that's already there.