Let me get this straight.
Kaz spoke to his god and never had that little topic (lay on hands and other paladin powers) addressed? Seems like an oversight to me.
Kaz only spoke to his god's herald.
Hey, all. I forget where everyone lives, and I got curious again!
Denmark, the country you see a picture of when looking up the definition of a welfare state.
You forgot?! What kind of boyfriend are you? ;-)
(South Australia, though I doubt anyone actually forgot that there's an Aussie in the group)
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And you would be correct. Its not easy to forget youre playing with a criminal!
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Bring it, I'm thick-skinned. It stops the spiders from getting through. :P
I haven't forgotten where any of you are from. I like keeping track of the people who I play with. Hilary, purple-haired librarian from Minneapolis.
I would say 'mild-mannered' but
a) none of you would believe it and
b) unlike other super heroes, I have no need for a secret identity.
Hmm
I'm a midwesterner don't ya know, like my blue-haired friend. If you ever forget where I'm from, just look at your hand. It's in Michigan.
And you're from Colorado, if I'm not mistaken. It's a lovely place. I lived in Denver for a couple months one summer.
And Lali is from Southern California. And I was born in Northern California, in San Francisco.
Speaking of Lali, is she okay? When people go quiet, I get worried.
Sadly this is the only contact I really have with any of you so cant really ever comment on missing personnel.
Lali's here! I'm dealing with the effects of a new medication which is making it hard for me to get anything done. I've let my games slip which I don't like. I'll try to be around more since we're in combat.
ETA: If that tiny thing is in my square does that mean I get an AoO against it?
About the five foot step question. Moving on the board, horizontally, is what disallows five foot steps. Standing up requires a move "action" but isnt actually moving as far as five foot stepping is concerned. Or atleast, thats how ive been reading it.
@Lali: It would have provoked an attack when it moved into your space to attack, but since you had yet to act in the combat, you couldnt perform one. It will only provoke again if it tries to leave.
You can move 5 feet in any round when you don't perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can't take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can't take a 5-foot step in the same round that you move any distance.
The movement in this paragraph and in the following explanation of the five foot step in the Core Rulebook all refers to distance traveled, not using your move action for something else. Also, it's under the miscellaneous actions heading and there's no mention under the move actions heading. In fact it specifies using movement instead of a move action there with this little gem.
The simplest move action is moving your speed. If you take this kind of move action during your turn, you can't also take a 5-foot step.
It's the only part in the move action section that specifically prohibits 5 foot steps. I think it's pretty clear if you look at it.
This is something I feel like I should post here, just as a reminder.
This game is meant to be fun, and that means that if something's happening you don't like, whether because it's uncomfortable or because it wasn't art of your vision, let me know. I don't promise I'll change it, but I'll explain why I'm doing it and work with you to either tone it down or come up with a solution. The key here is to let me know.
Thanks for playing and for making this game fun!
Can we all act? I'd like to stab me some gremlins.
Yeah. Forgot to mention that. Go for it!
That minimum damage is pretty nice there Kaz.
We're waiting on Luthor, right?
Yeah. If he hasn't gone by the time I get back from my grandmother's today, I'll give him a bot.
We are? Well woops.
Hey GM, it seems they hit Arcane Deed with the Nerf bat, probably deservedly so. Now using it to get Precise Strike is completely worthless. Meaning I've wasted a feat I wouldn't have done otherwise. I haven't ever used Flamboyant Arcana, nor am I likely to in the future as I like to keep my Arcane Pool points for enchanting my blade.
Since it particularly affects my build, could I get a ruling on whether or not you want to keep the old ruling or to maybe let me have a a retrain?
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Just look at your hand. It's in Michigan.
Wait, my hand's in Michigan?
Aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!
Also, Hmm, that song's Gilbert & Sullivan, not R&H. :)
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Yeah, they fingered it for being a public nuisance.
Wait, your hands aren't in Michigan?
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Yeah, they fingered it for being a public nuisance.
Hiya, Daen. I've been thinking about your question regarding Flamboyant Arcana, and I'm going to let you retrain it for free to something else. Frankly, your power level at the moment is quite far ahead of the rest of the party's, and it's making it hard to balance stuff.
Also, I was looking over your build, and I'm not sure how you're using Slashing Grace with Spell Combat. For reference, Slashing Grace says "You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied."
Theres an argument to be made that the other hand isnt actually occupied while using Spell Combat, in the sense that its only occupied while casting the spell, not while attacking.
Specifying two weapons and flurry and leaving Spell Combat out of the equation with the vague "otherwise occupied" bit also seems to be for Spell Combat working with it.
Yes, but the FAQ that states that it "does not work with Spell Combat" seems pretty definitive.
Look, I'm not trying to ruin Daen's build. I was just trying to figure out where he's getting all his damage from, because his damage one-shots a CR 2 creature with Toughness and a reasonable number of hit points. One that Lali and Cyanne struggled with for a good 4 or 5 rounds.
Remember that Daen now has a cold iron weapon. We would have done so much better with one of those. I hit that thing again and again and could barely damage it. Cyanne is not primarily a martial type, anyway. It's only appropriate that someone who specializes in this stuff does more damage than I do.
(Also didn't you say that you were ignoring the errata?)
Even taking into account that neither you nor Lali are built to be melee bruisers, and taking into account Cold Iron, and taking into account that critical, Daen's damage is still between 5 and 12 points higher than either of yours, on average.
I'd like to give Daen a chance to respond, so let's relax a bit here and wait for him.
(Also, if you could find that quote, it'd be much appreciated. I'm having a hard time remembering when I said it, but it'd be nice to have the context.)
Sure. Context is here.
And I'll happily let Daen defend himself!
Theres an FAQ out on the subject? Well I guess thats fairly definitive indeed -.-
I really dont get Paizos obsession with restricting Dex to damage feats to only one weapon, and then introducing the Unchained Rogue. I mean honestly...
I really dont get Paizos obsession with restricting Dex to damage feats to only one weapon, and then introducing the Unchained Rogue. I mean honestly...
Seconded
It doesn't make sense to me, either.
Since I tend to be long winded, let me put this in spoilers.
In the future, Lali will be out-damaging us all but right now with a proper bow she'll be doing just about as much damage as I do. At 6th level she'll have Improved precise shot four levels before anyone else can really get it, with 3 shots a round. At 7th level, she'll have Manyshot and get 4 shots a round, 5 when I or Cyanne casts haste. If she had gone with a ranger with spells, she'd been way more potent at level 10 with Instant Enemy. With Cyanne in the group, she'll hit a lot more consistently as well.
Kaz, now with rage, will be able to do some fairly solid damage especially when smiting if we run into anything that has other than Cold Iron for Damage resistance. If Kaz had used his smite on the gremlin he fought in the last battle we had at the end of the chase, he'd have been done with his battle far faster than I would have. One of these days, he'll crit while smiting and raging and do some crazy damage. He'll also inherit any special magical weapons we find, as Daen's pretty attached to his Dueling Sword much more than Kaz is to an axe, so that can give him a lot more versatility when it comes to using equipment to improve.
If there's a disparity within the group, or a person feels completely out shined by another that's a tricky issue as well. The game isn't balanced, although it's not as bad as some people feel. In Daen's previous game, I only feel I did well because of lucky rolls. On paper, especially at first level, Daen was very easily outclassed by nearly everyone. I thought the Kensai was a good way to make him a bit stronger in melee, and I was glad when you let me take it. It is a fairly powerful archetype for a fairly powerful class, especially to start. The magus falls off in potency after level 7, as well as the Bard because of their lack of full BAB and Full Casting, but as slow as PBP's tend to go, you won't get into the sweet spots for Rangers, Paladins and Witches until later.
I understand how characters can shift in usefulness as well. When I played a Sorcerer, I didn't get terribly useful until level 8 but by the time I hit 14 I'd lay waste to encounters all the time, making the end of the game nearly trivial. The GM gave half the group artifacts just to keep up with me. It was hard to be patient until then, but it was worth it. When I played an Alchemist, I destroyed encounters regularly starting from level 1, but at later levels, I struggled sometimes to be useful, and played a much more supportive role to the Ranger who regularly destroyed everything. I had to learn that I was only situationally useful and to bide my time until I could shine.
I brought this particular issue up so that I could be a bit de-powered if necessary. Of course I do like to see my character succeed, who doesn't? But, I have no desire whatsoever to ruin anyone's game over a particular reading of the rules or to make them feel like they don't contribute. Would I still like to be able to do crazy damage? Again, who wouldn't? But I can understand if it is making the game troublesome for others. This is supposed to be a team game after all.
That's why I wanted to make Daen socially awkward so he'd need people to handle NPC's. I made him a bit brash and offensive so others would have to hold him back from time to time and perhaps even apologize for him. I held back on the knowledges so others could fill that skill game. He's a skilled strategist and swordsman, but rubbish at leading or inspiring people. A rapier would be a far more effective weapon, especially in the long run due to it's better crit but I went with the Dueling Sword because it's fun.
I'm planning on building wands and/or possibly arms and armor for others, tailoring them to their specific needs and proclivities. That's not really done as of yet, but it's part of the plan. Also, I try to give advice to anyone on how they can make their character more potent if they feel like they aren't doing as well as they'd like, even if they don't ask for it.
In character Daen wanted to make sure that they shopped for items that would boost everyone else's power, and tried not to take the one magical item he has until Cyanne talked him into it. Once we leave town, Kaz's AC will be 20 without his shield and should be able to tank as good if not better than Daen on every encounter a day beyond the first, Lali should have a Strength-Rated Bow to do +4 damage a round. Cyanne, as we've mentioned before, isn't built to do damage but could have much better AC with some decent equipment and Luthor isn't as dependent on gear, but he's doing pretty good with his spells.
I'm cool with any rulings you want to do, I play Daen because I like his character. I wanted him to be an excellent swordsman, and he can be that without the damage, his regular hitting is good enough for me. I plan on investing into wands and spell storing swords in the future so I can more consistently do spell damage anyhow. At least until it comes to overcoming SR, which is ridiculously hard to do with wands. I should be pretty good versus goons, except at the end when everything will have SR.
I want to see everyone's character be able to fulfill what they envisioned as well. So I don't mind if you want to have Daen cursed for a while or have his sword eaten or take away access to any feats you don't like. I don't mind if you want to give everyone else powerful magical items or additional feats or even mythic tiers to let them do their particular jobs or fit their concepts much better. This happens pretty regularly in my home games. You're the GM, do what you think is best.
The real issue is that Kazimir has two settings. In his totally on setting, he can out-dpr you, and it's not even close (17.2 to 12.2). The problem is that he can only maintain that for 6 rounds and 1 enemy, and once it's gone, he slips fast (to 4.9 dpr). The numbers account for the number of hits against AC 15, not just for raw damage. I'm aware this is just how paladins are sometimes, and in a house game, it'd be fine because we'd be doing 3-5 combats a day instead of 1-2 a month. We'll talk about balance next, then I'll go to my conclusions.
I ran out of time for the third section, but I do appreciate that you haven’t optimized for everything (and I don’t treat optimization as a dirty word, it’s just a playstyle.
I think there’s a few issues. The first is that Daen’s a well-optimized character that’s at the top of his game, in terms of where a class is powerful. That’s not a massive problem, though my decision to ignore the errata does lend itself to a pretty powerful character.
At the core of the problem is a mistake I made, and it’s one I’m taking full responsibility for. I told Kazimir’s player, when she was building him, that mounted combat would be viable a reasonable percentage of the AP. In this, I was wrong. We’ve tried to address this problem with the Bloodrager patch, but I think that’s just duck-taping over the real issue, which is that Kazimir picked a cool fighting style that’s just not viable, and he did it at my urging. I’m not 100% sure how to fix this issue, either. We’ve done a partial rebuild, but it’s clear to me that it’s not really getting there in terms of numbers. What I want to figure out is if there’s a way to rebuild Kazimir into something more in-line with the party (two-hander paladin?) without either pissing off the party-members or destroying Kazimir’s personality.
PS: Yes, I’m aware that this might seem like ‘coddling the girlfriend’s character’, but I’d like to think that if other players had issues, I’d address them in a similar way. To that end, feel free to shoot me a friend request on Facebook so you can bother me with questions, concerns, or other issues. My name is Chris Huisjen and my profile pic is a blonde guy in a green shirt.
Just a heads up that it isnt all DPR. I mean, Kaz is gonna tank everyone pants off in a level or two, especially in the saves department. In regards to twohanders, theres always the option of using a buckler. Leaves him free to go twohanded whenever without the hassle of having to get rid of his shield.
A two-handed Paladin with a decent strength can keep their damage up. Power Attack can do the trick as well. I'd let Kaz switch from the Shining Knight archetype to, one that allows the use of divine bond on a weapon, or giving him a griffon, or an owlbear (or a dragon, I hear they're cool) to ride or something crazy like that. Or even give him a full rebuild, including ability scores, if it's desired. If you're bending the rules a bit by ignoring errata, you can ignore a limitation on someone else's character so that they are powerful in the way they want to be as well.
A second option might be to allow Kaz to sort of "Retire" as the king once we get that set up and let Rysky build a new character more in line with what she wants after we beat the Stag Lord. I convinced her to give Paladin a try, comparing the class to Vegemite, and it might just not be something in her particular wheelhouse. I invited her into this game because she's awesome, and I really would like to see her enjoy herself to the fullest.
If she wants to slip into something she's more comfortable with, I'd be fine with it, and I'd rather see that happen for her to be frustrated about it. That way she'll have an adventuring character for adventuring, and can keep Kaz in town for diplomacy and nation building.
Also, another thing you can do is stop putting Daen 5' away from an enemy in the first round. I can't do spell combat without a full attack.
P.S. If you've shown anyone special favors so far, it's been me with ignoring that errata. And without any benefits outside of the game! (Honest!) I'm fairly certain that anyone who's thinking you're showing Kaz special favors doesn't have much to stand on.
Few things here. First up, I've been trying to keep my head in the game, but as it is, I'm simply frustrated. I enjoy playing Kaz as a character, but mechanically, he's useless and it's frustrating me. I'm a full-BAB heavy melee character who is way behind the other two damage-dealers, and it's tiresome, especially since I was told a heavy melee character was what the party needed at the time. The only advantages Kaz has, AC and saves, aren't coming into effect because encounters are ending so quickly. There's no point in staying power when someone can go nova and shut things down in round one.
I appreciate the chance to rebuild Kaz mechanically, but there are very few changes I can make that won't completely overhaul who he is as a person. He uses a one-handed axe because it's a humble weapon - any farmer will have one for splitting wood - and the only one he had any experience with, given his upbringing. Two-handed weapons are more effective, but he simply hasn't had the training, and would balk at using a greatsword or polearm. He still doesn't see himself as a paladin, and Cyanne's helped him take the first steps to that discovery, but the whole "holy knight" idea is still completely foreign.
In short, I built a character for theme rather than mechanics, and now I'm getting f#$@ed over for it and not enjoying it as much as I should.
Life has also decided to throw its obstacles at me again. Things came to a head with my ex a couple of days ago, and the next step is police involvement. (I wanted to forward the explicit messages he sent me to his current girlfriend, but that seemed too petty.) I'm still unemployed, the bills are piling up, and 40+ job applications a month are getting me nowhere. And on top of all that, I'm getting ready for a holiday (a much-needed one at that), and it turns out flying solo brings a whole f!!*ton of tasks and stresses along with it.
So, I'm here, and I'm trying, but this is one of the worst slumps I've been in for a while. Just looking forward to the end of it.
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First of all, I know first hand how a psycho ex can ruin your year. (Mine tried to run me over with her car and accused me of raping her so I'd get thrown out of college.) I know it's a tough time for you right now, but the tough times make you strong. I know that sucks to hear, because it doesn't do anything for you now, but if you just focus on your now and not the future, you'll never rise above your circumstances.
Playing a character built for theme is fine, as long as you enjoy it. If you aren't enjoying it, then something's got to give. I remember having a bit of trouble with several of my characters in the past, and really talking through it, in and out of character was a big help to me. Without communication, you do have to fly solo, and as you said, that's a lot of stress on you. Talk with us all about what you're dealing with and we can help. Unlike other people that you know, we're actually on your side and want to see you happy.
That being said (and hopefully to encourage the communication that I recommended), Kaz has a problem I like to call "humble pride". He could easily be better, but he won't because he believes himself to be less than he is. When people try to tell him what they see, it's difficult to impossible for them to be heard because Kaz thinks he knows himself better than he does. It's frustrating to his friends because they know he's awesome, but he won't be. It's a common trope in fiction, but even more common in real life.
Unfortunately, Kaz and you can't have it both ways. You can't remain a simple farmboy and run a kingdom. He's going to have to change in some dynamic ways for him to become what we all want him to become. He can keep his values, but he may not be able to keep his methods. In fact, everyone would agree that his values are one of the things that would make him a good ruler, it's just a matter of getting him to change how he accomplishes them for the good of himself, the group, and your sanity.
The trick is to organically convince Kaz to do something he should do that will be more satisfying to you. Kaz's problems and stresses don't mean as much to me as yours do. I'm perfectly fine with putting him in a tight spot for you to be more comfortable. Say if we come across a magical greatsword. Daen will try to talk Kaz into it because it should be used, and Kaz is the best person to use it. We had to talk him into some nice armor, and I'm not above doing stuff like that again if necessary. He might be uncomfortable, but if you are more satisfied with your character mechanically, I'm fine with him getting used to it.
I can help with the emotional component in character, if you're willing to express your frustration in character. Daen is a bit too dim to realize your feelings unless you tell him plainly. He will try to push you into things that will be beneficial to his martial strengths, because that's something that is of keen interest to him. i.e. not having anyone die again. If Kaz realizes his deficiency in training, Daen does know how to handle all martial weapons and would be more than happy (well, as happy as Daen gets :P) to help train him in the use of anything he's uncomfortable with.
TL/DR:
Talk with us about your frustrations and we'll try to help in whatever way we can.
Your sentence structure and word choice greatly pleases me Daen.
And Kaz, I dont really have something clever or profound to say in regards to this, so instead, ill settle for something stupid
I don't mind if you want to give everyone else powerful magical items or additional feats or even mythic tiers to let them do their particular jobs or fit their concepts much better.
I fully support this ;)
On a more serious note, I’ve been thinking about this and here’s what I’ve come up with.
I think the only people worried about Kaz getting ‘special favors’ are Kaz and Aest. Don’t worry about it, we trust you guys.
I think this is the perfect time to rebuild Kaz, and you guys can rebuild him however you want. He’s come back from the dead, he can have all kinds of fancy new powers he just doesn’t realize he has yet. Switch some levels around, throw in a different class like warpriest/cleric/fighter, have him get bitten by a magical radioactive spider, whatever creates a character you’re happy to play.
Like Daen said, the rest of the party can be instrumental in helping Kaz develop his talents. Daen’s helping Cyanne IC with her swordwork. We have a group of mercenaries back at the trading post that can teach Kaz about using any kind of weaponry the group can’t cover, and Kaz’s priest friend can cover the spiritual gifts aspect. I think it makes perfect sense for Kaz to be getting extra training right now considering we’re going into a big honking fight and he’s getting back into shape after being resurrected. Lali will absolutely kick him in the pants to train because it will make him safer in the long run.
Your ex sounds like a bag of dicks. I would come punch him in the throat if I could. Take whatever time you need. If you’d like we could bot you through combat so you don’t have to stress about that.
I flew solo for the first time last June and it was really stressful/freaky preparing for it; the flights themselves were a lot easier than the preparations lol. I hope you have a bunch of fun!
Since Aest posted his facebook I’ll go ahead and toss mine out there too https://www.facebook.com/santaanitafan
So... after dealing with the above drama, I went to a homebound friend's place for three hours and helped him declutter and reorganize.
I'm feeling a lot less stressed, which means I can now comment about game stuff again.
__
Back to the subject of Kaz being Aest's girlfriend. So what?! I don't care other than to be happy for the both of you. Rebuild Kaz however you want, even with extra feats and magic items. I am sorry your ex is giving you hell. Do what I did. Report him to the cops. Be a narc. We'll start a club.
I agree with Daen though that Kaz needs to take steps to acknowledge his awesomeness and start using his full capabilities. Cyanne also pledges to help in this quest!
Hmm
Hey guys, just a quick post to say that I am reading everything, and trying to figure out a way to make this work. I appreciate everyone's support and input.
Also, Hmm, I wasn't offended by your post; in fact, "Be a narc; we'll start a club" made me laugh, which was needed. Sorry to hear about your dramas; that's really s~~$ty stuff.
Also also, sending you a friend request, Lali.
Also also also, the trip's something I'm really looking forward to, but it's stressful as hell. I mean, I'm flying to the other side of the damn world, on my own. This ain't my mama's Bali holiday, this is big stuff.
Also also also also, +1 for Kaz getting bitten by a radioactive spider, because dammit, that made me snort lukewarm coffee out of my nose.
I for one wasn't offended by anything said here. I think it's all very good discussion, and I've been following along. I do feel like there's a very organic way for Kazimir to convert over into something more combat-potent in between books, and I think I'll move it along to Book 2 after the Stag Lord's dead, so that should work well if he's interested.
Unfortunately, I've also bee fighting off being sick and then had a pair of very busy evenings, so posting has been pretty minimal. I'll get to Gameplay sometime tonight, hopefully.
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Get better soon, Aest!
Hello! I'd like to know, once again, which kingdom roles you guys would most like to have so I can start thinking about the first year or so with you guys in charge. I'd like to rough out the different events and try to produce a cohesive storyline, so the more info I have, the better.