DM Talomyr's Kingmaker

Game Master Talomyr

A few of you have already heard from me in PMs, but there's a Shadowrun (3rd edition) game on the boards that is re-forming its players and is in need of a replacement street samurai. If that's you, speak up! (I can help with character creation, if necessary.)

I think this is not the game for me.

It's quite hard to overcome the accusation of having insulted people, which I did not think that I did.

That Brevoyan politics is a hive of backstabbing nobility pretty much bereft of honor is not, I thought, a controversial position. It is modeled on Westeros and the alignment of the nation's power centers is given as CN - whereas Elkmark seemed to be LG (or at least heavily Erastil-aligned).

So I was trying to come up with a character who would have motivation to support this endeavor (for example, as a Rostlander, he is particularly not fond of the Surtova family), and instead I get accused of insulting the common people of Brevoy.

Sorry, all. I just don't see this working. Best of luck.

Group chemistry is really important. If you get off on the wrong foot, it can be really hard to overcome that. I was not aiming for any intra-party friction and I do not wish to have any.

That seems a touch dramatic. Some of the best stories/character interaction starts with individuals of opposing viewpoints who eventually find common ground.

Group chemistry is important, but it isn't automatic, and is best when it forms organically.

That seems a touch dramatic. Some of the best stories/character interaction starts with individuals of opposing viewpoints who eventually find common ground.

That may be true in fiction where one author controls all the characters, but I have very rarely found it to be true in a PbP campaign. More often fissures widen. If the portrayal of Brevoy is of a somewhat more just nation than I am used to, then I would change my views - and, in any event, I would be able to "go along to get along". I just would not want to let go of the hope of creating a more just realm, which rather necessitates acknowledging Brevoy's flaws.

If Azen actually wishes me to stay, I will give it a shot. I genuinely did wish to play in this game.

This is my fourth time trying Kingmaker (have never gotten very far) so perhaps I do bring some baggage from how Brevoy was always presented to me. Willing to learn.

Sounds like you've had some bad experiences. We mostly don't bite. Do a little back-and-forth with the characters, push back a little, bend a little, we'll give leeway too. People are entitled to their opinions and I think we all ultimately want the same thing: To have a fun game together.

Not everyone on the boards is a great participant—I left a game with some toxic personalities several years ago after joining a KM game—and it's fair to bounce if you don't think you'll fit with a group. I'd say give it a try and you can always decide to walk if you're just not having a good time. I don't blame you if you've run into bad experiences with other groups and you just don't have the energy or the wherewithal to waste more time on stuff that isn't a good game for you.

Ultimately, your choice. I would like to give things a try, but I also understand if you have had enough bad experiences that you just want to cut to the chase.

I was just trying to get a conversation going. Wasn't trying to start a character war. My apologies.

I get too caught up in the lore sometimes. My apologies as well.

It is entirely possible that the Brevoy in this campaign is a more just and fair realm than what I have come to expect.

I think Brevoy is probably pretty shady, but it is also where a bunch of our characters are originally from, and it's where we got our money to start the new nation, so it's... conflicted. :D

I have a sneaking suspicion that as the story develops we will pull further away from Brevoy and its politics.

So in case it isn't clear... Wulfric is also from Brevoy. The part of it called Rostland.

Wulfric emphasizing that he is from Rostland (not Brevoy) is analogous to an Irishman in 1801 or 1901 emphasizing that he is from Ireland, not the United Kingdom. The weaker rural region that resents the conquering power and refuses to give up its dreams of independence.

I think you are right that it will not end up mattering.

It’s important to consider that in game terms it’s only been six months or so since the original charter was signed. So Brevoy’s influence is still quite strong over our fledgling settlement.

Still, Tove absolutely does see Elkmark as chance to do something different to the stone walls and shady politics of Brevoy, and will certainly be pulling away as much as she can. That’s part of why she rebukes the idea of being a Baroness, and styles herself as the new Stag Lord instead.

Ahh, the Brevic civil war. I've never seen it in play, but it could happen...

Glad all this got squared away.

I'm happy to let the conversation go on as long as you would like and respond to comments made to/as the NPC councilors present.

Just let me know when you're ready to move on.

Ahh, the Brevic civil war. I've never seen it in play, but it could happen...

I feel like the first section of the Player's Guide really sets up Brevoy's internal conflict of Issia/Rostland (or Crown/Swordlords), but from what I understand it is all just backstory and doesn't play much of a role in the AP.

I think if it was part of the AP then it would be among the PF2 canon changes that I heard about.

I think Avellone smoothed out the story by creating a stronger through-line that involved figuring out the central conflict and then mobilizing most of the early challenges into line with it. Since the possible Brevic civil war isn't part of that through line, it became a background element.

It sure seems like the sort of thing that could fire off, though. Issia really exploits Rostland, by all accounts. It would be especially likely if some PC managed to overturn the status quo, either by mobilizing Rostland, or by making a power play to undercut the power of the houses in Issia (like a PC I had in a different KM game who was a matriarch of House Surtova...).

The mini-gazetteer in The Stolen Lands, and the one in the Inner Sea World Guide, have very little information about the culture of Brevoy beyond its civil unrest and the history of the disappearance of its former unifier, Choral the Conqueror. It does specify that noble lineages are patrilineal, handing down inheritance of noble family control to males. Not a lot beyond that, so some elements may be down to the choices of individual groups.

Should we roll our Kingdom checks again ahead of the town meeting?

The last time I can find us doing that was in May 2023 where we rolled for two months which I believe corresponded to Sarenith and Erastus, so we should be due one to find out what happened in Arodus soon.

Current date on the day of Wulfric's arrival is 25 Arodus 4710 by my reckoning.

Sure let's do that. Might be a bit slow as it is a holiday weekend here in the States.

Of course, enjoy your holidays everyone!

Hope those of you who celebrate, had a good Thanksgiving. Shall we get to a round of Kingdom building?

At the start of the month you have 21 BP in your treasury.

Phase 1—Upkeep: I need a Stability check from the Warden. As the Warden is a NPC I would prefer one of you roll it. DC 26 with a Stability modifier of +19 as it currently stands. Currently Unrest is at 0.

Upkeep, according to the sheet will be 5 BP.

I volunteer our glorious leader to make the roll!

Stability DC26: 1d20 + 19 ⇒ (1) + 19 = 20

Well that doesn’t bode well…

AND SO BEGINS THE DEATH SPIRAL OF UNREST

Maybe a new leader will rise after the revolution. :)

Well that roll fails by 6 so...

Unrest: 1d4 ⇒ 2
Your kingdom's unrest is a penalty to all other Kingdom rolls.

After upkeep, your treasury sits at 16 BP.

There are no magic item slots to fill.

The fact that you have Rhiannon as a Royal Enforcer, reduces your unrest to 1.

On to the Edict Phase.

Step 1 Assign Leadership Roles. Congratulations, Wulfric, you are offically the Magister of Elkmark

Step 2. Claim/Abandon Hexes?

Tme to knock some heads together, find out what this troublemaker's deal is and tamp down that unrest.

Did we have any plans for what we were going to claim next?

I need to check the map and then I can make some suggestions :)

With a Consumption value of 5, we need more farmlands and fisheries!

Ok, I suggest that we claim C5, the area of forest with the moon radish patch. This puts us incrementally closer to our goal of connecting our nation's borders with Oleg's trading post (and someday we can build a road that goes between Elkmark and there...). In addition, the radish patch itself serves as a special resource, which means that if we claim the hex, we get +1 Economy, and if we then build a sawmill there, we get +2 Stability and +2 BP when collecting taxes.

Claiming the hex costs 1 BP, building the sawmill costs 3 BP. So, costs more now to give us benefits in the future.

Whenever we get another kingdom turn in the far future, we can claim B6, Oleg's trading post, which is a plain and therefore a space where we can build a farm, which will reduce consumption.

Building roads is expensive but over time they pay off, as they increase your income.

Once we have connected to Oleg's we may want to take F5 and G6. They'll make farmland (to reduce consumption) and increase the control of territory directly around Elkmark.

Sounds like a well-laid plan.

Great plan, thanks Celebeth.

Okay, Claiming C5 and building a sawmill there brings your treasury down to 12 BP.

Any other edicts prior to moving to the income phase?

Since it has been worked into story many times already, and you've all been kind enough to put up with me as an occasionally (frequently?) inattentive DM, I'm gifting Fort Redemption an Inn and the requisite house. No BP charge.

If there is nothing else, on to the Income Phase:

Step 1—Make Withdrawals from the Treasury: Doubt you are doing this.
Step 2—Make Deposits to the Treasury: equally doubtful
Step 3—Sell Expensive Items for BP: would you believe even more doubtful

Step 4—Collect Taxes: Attempt an Economy check, divide the result by 3 (round down), and add a number of BP to your Treasury equal to the result.

Addition of the free house dropped your unrest to 0.
Addition of the free inn has your Economy at +25. You have a Control DC of 27 for this roll.

Along with the result of the roll, you will be adding +2 BP to your treasury from the sawmills.

As a side note, your expeditions to find out what is going on with the trolls has bought you a bit of time if you would like to take the time to do 2 months worth of Kingdom building here.

Economy check: 1d20 + 25 ⇒ (2) + 25 = 27

eyyy made it exactly! That's 27/3 = 9 BP, +2 bonus BP, for a total of +11, which puts us at 23 BP.

We can do some RP and investigate this rabble-rouser while managing the kingdom for another month, if people want.

Yeah that sounds like a good idea. And thanks for the inn Tal!

Nice roll, Celebeth :)

I think making sure the kingdom is secure from enemies within before we go forth to give our lifesblood to trolls is a most excellent idea. Or I just find the trolls scary. Whatevs.

Makes sense, shore up the community before venturing back out to defend it.

DM Talomyr, should I go ahead and suggest a building for this kingdom turn, or does the free inn take up our one building?

For the next month we need the usual Stability roll from our ruler, then we can claim Oleg's hex and roll for Economy.

I've got an event roll to make, but otherwise you can plan your next months actions. The inn was free and does not count against you in any way.

For this turn, then, I recommend that we build a Brewery (6 BP, +1 Loyalty, +1 Stability). The improved stability will help to keep up with our expanding kingdom's Control DCs. (We need to keep hammering at that, try to get our Stability up over our Control DC so that we can't fail those rolls without some kind of external penalty.)

This also means that we can get a little closer to making that dockside Tavern that our bard wanted oh so long ago before she had to leave us. I like to imagine her sitting on a chair by the waterfront, watching the river go by with a mug of ale in hand. :)

Then handle the event check, and we can roll into the next month!

I'll be following along with this subsystem and learning as I go, but I don't expect to make any suggestions until the next phase.

Our two biggest problems at the moment are:

* Our Stability is lower than our Control DC, which means that our Ruler can fail our Control checks at the start of each kingdom turn (month). This is bad, as it causes Unrest, and unless you tackle Unrest immediately, it becomes a death spiral for your kingdom, as it applies a penalty to all of your kingdom rolls.

* Our Consumption (the cost of maintaining the kingdom's infrastructure based on its size, tax rate, and culture) is a little high. If we bring that down we can bank more Build Points each turn. Consumption is usually reduced by building farms, but there's a limit on how many we can build per turn, and they can only be built in certain terrain types, so we need to get more farms going in the areas that we control.

In the long term we will want a much higher Loyalty score (in case of spies or bad kingdom events) and we will need to raise an army at some point, but that is... hopefully far off!

Event Roll (25%): 1d100 ⇒ 98 None this month. 75% chance next month.

Rolling for month 2:
Stability DC27: 1d20 + 20 ⇒ (12) + 20 = 32

Woot! +1 BP for that!

I spent the 6 BP for the Brewery, added it to the map, and added the +1 BP for making the Control check at the start of the turn.

Hang on, you may have seen posts come and go, I thought things were extremely bad, but I made an error and they're only kinda bad. Follow up to come.

Economy check: 1d20 + 25 ⇒ (3) + 25 = 28

All right, month 6 of kingdom:

Upkeep: We pay 6 consumption, Tove made the stability roll above, and we move on to building.

Claim B6 (1 BP): Oleg's is now under our protection.
Build farms in B6 (2 BP): As word spreads that Oleg's territory is protected, small farmsteads spring up in the lands to the south. People hear that monsters and brigands are no longer a problem, but the taxes are lighter than Brevoy's.

... and that's it. I wanted to build a tavern, but because of our consumption, we can't really afford the cost of house (required for the tavern) + tavern. We have to save money.

The economy check nets us 28/3 = 9 BP, plus the 2 automatic, for a total of 11 more BP. Against the cost of 9 BP for consumption and construction, we earn a meager 2 BP this turn. If things go better next turn, maybe we can have that tavern.

Our kingdom is getting difficult to control. We need to spend time building up our capital with more structures that will improve our kingdom stats before we expand into further hexes.

I think that makes sense. We’ve secured the land between us and Oleg now, it’s a good time to switch our focus inwards.

All right, month 6 of kingdom:

... and that's it. I wanted to build a tavern, but because of our consumption, we can't really afford the cost of house (required for the tavern) + tavern. We have to save money.

On the city map, I see a second house. I know I gave you one with the inn. Did you build a second one this month (in preparation for the tavern)?

Celebeth Quinciel wrote:

All right, month 6 of kingdom:

... and that's it. I wanted to build a tavern, but because of our consumption, we can't really afford the cost of house (required for the tavern) + tavern. We have to save money.

On the city map, I see a second house. I know I gave you one with the inn. Did you build a second one this month (in preparation for the tavern)?

No, that's probably an error from when I was undoing changes after figuring out that our economy was terrible.

Also, I am working out how to go through and edit the building icons to include text on top of them, like the Mill, so that it's easier to see visually what is located where in the town.

Also, just found another error, the sawmill at C5 (sawmill + resource) was misclassified as a regular sawmill, so we got another +1 BP on our final turn from that. Now fixed on the sheet. (Also gives us +1 Stability, so that helps a bit with our Control issues.)

* Our Consumption (the cost of maintaining the kingdom's infrastructure based on its size, tax rate, and culture) is a little high. If we bring that down we can bank more Build Points each turn. Consumption is usually reduced by building farms, but there's a limit on how many we can build per turn, and they can only be built in certain terrain types, so we need to get more farms going in the areas that we control.

We can help reduce consumption(or offset high consumption) if we can get hold of a druid to cast Plant Growth on our farms:

I'm good with that, that being said it would have to be cast on three farms to reduce consumption by a total of 4. (1.33 + 1.33 + 1.34)

Event Roll (75%): 1d100 ⇒ 65 Yes

Type and Danger Level: 1d100 ⇒ 23 Beneficial kingdom event (Table 4—8)

Table 4-8: 1d100 ⇒ 27 Economic boom - Trade is booming in your kingdom! Your Treasury increases by 1d6 BP (each time you roll a 6, add the result to the total and roll again)

Additional BP: 1d6 ⇒ 4

Add 4 BP to your treasury as a result of increased trade for the month. Chance of an event next month 25%.