Where is our army?
Also, what is the scale of the map? To be sitting ducks means to be stuck in a position where someone else could attack, without us being able to attack back.
Your two armies are on Southbank (I keep Calling it south shore).
There is no scale listed, so what I am saying that is if you assault Paradise hill, you are either going around by 3 days or across the bridge or into the river bed.
The last two are options but both have their downsides. The first is not as you will be abandoning the city and you don't have the foot stores to do that.
Lets say the map is 2 km across
I have the World Wound book at home, a physical copy I will see if there is a scale there tonight
The issue here, is that this adventure runs on some rules I don't know. There is another army. We should know where, if they are not dug in.
So normally I could make some easy calculation, about where the armies will meet. If we're able to get across the bridge and what it would mean if we don't. Does the bridge give cover? Do we get a bonus for holding the bridge towers?
Also if not bound by the army rules, we could slow down the foreign army with spell casting. Send half a dozen summoned aurochs trampling into their rows. If Tink can be brought to such shenanigans.
But with no info given to come up with role play relevant stuff, I'll give up command to Irabeth. Because this way it's no fun. Then we can do our group adventuring and you run the army stuff behind the screen, with sending messages about what is going on and telling us where to strike next.
Unless I say it is a small battle it will be the army fights, I realize I can just forgo them but this one is solely an army fight.
Any ideas on what to do with the army?
I do but it is not up to me.
Army stats are on the campaign info page.
I have no ideas what do do about them. I assume we go secure the rest of the city before checking out the castle?
It would be advisable yes, there rules are in Complete Campaign.
Really right now it is how do you get your army across the bridge into enemy held territory without them being killed while marching on the bridge.
According to your descriptions there is no one around or in sight who could kill them on the bridge. As long as that doesn't change - walk them over the bridge.
Make sure to sweep the area to check for invisible/hidden foes and traps.
Place archers in the towers to help fend off any air attacks
Fly around as a air borne scout/guard to help protect them
Give me a day to craft a lesser metamagic rod of widen and I blanket the entire army with invisibility spheres.
Hell, I can technically do that already but it costs me all my spell slots and 2 mythic points.
Don't take too long, or we will have to eat you and your bird.
you can always probe and withdraw since this will be an army action not a PC one
Chicken pox is a pain in the ash
Ohh yes it is, you or your kids?
I have no kids so just me
That would suck man, hopefully it doesn't last to long
We seem to have stalled. So shall we get to a tower top and work our way down?
I am waiting on what you are doing and how you are doing it
Crusader roll call?
Who's turn is it?
Round 3
Lynn, Don, Balthazar
Demons (Y , B 39)
Azrael, SteelGate, Tink <---
You may want to re-check those fly rules.
Move less than half speed and remain flying dc 10
Check: You generally need only make a Fly check when you are attempting a complex maneuver. Without making a check, a flying creature can remain flying at the end of its turn so long as it moves a distance greater than half its speed
I forgot when Litany came on line. It is annoying that it is a swift action to cast though. Can't do that and smite on the same turn.
Sorry Raltus.
Paladin smite bypasses ALL DR.
Even epic DR. Even DR/-.
I agree that he said that in 2012, in 2013 the published the opposite in the book and on their website.
I am ruling that it doesn't by pass, not to be a malicious GM but because it is thematic and it goes with the final ruling in the book.
Dual Initiative (Ex)
The monster gets two turns each round, one on its initiative count and another on its initiative count – 20. For example, if the monster’s initiative is 23, for its first turn it could make a full attack (and take a 5 foot step) at initiative 23, and for its second turn at initiative 3 it could take a move action and cast a spell. This allows the monster to perform two actions per round that normally take an entire round, such as using a summon monster spell. For the purposes of spells and effects that have a duration of a round or longer or trigger at the beginning of the creature’s round or the start of its turn such as saving throws against ongoing effects or taking bleed damage), only the monster’s first turn each round counts toward such durations.
Format: +21/+1; Location: Initiative.
|
Not bypassing DR is rough enough, but I do see your point. But you seem to also be saying that Azrael does not get the smite damage boost either? I have to admit to not understanding that part at all as I thought those two elements of the smite were separate. Would I also not get my +4 to hit and +4 to AC? Is the thing smited or not?
|
|
Not bypassing DR is rough enough, but I do see your point. But you seem to also be saying that Azrael does not get the smite damage boost either? I have to admit to not understanding that part at all as I thought those two elements of the smite were separate. Would I also not get my +4 to hit and +4 to AC? Is the thing smited or not?
And had I known about this earlier I might have taken Clustered shot, or maybe a mythic smite.
I agree that he said that in 2012, in 2013 the published the opposite in the book and on their website.
I am ruling that it doesn't by pass, not to be a malicious GM but because it is thematic and it goes with the final ruling in the book.
The basic ruling: Damage Reduction (DR): Creatures that are resistant
to harm typically have damage reduction. This amount is subtracted from any damage dealt to them from a physical source. Most types of DR can be bypassed by certain types of weapons. This is denoted by a “/” followed by the type, such as “10/cold iron.” Some types of DR apply to all physical attacks. Such DR is denoted by the “—” symbol. See Appendix 1 for more information.From that appendix:
Overcoming DR: Damage reduction may be o vercome by special materials, magic weapons (any weapon with a +1 or higher enhancement bonus, not counting the e nhancement from masterwork quality), certain types of weapons (such as slashing or bludgeoning), and weapons imbued with an alignment. Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Similarly, ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an alignment gains the alignment of that projectile weapon (in addition to any alignment it may already have).
Weapons with an enhancement bonus of +3 or greater can ignore some types of damage reduction, regardless of their actual material or alignment. The following table shows what type of enhancement bonus is needed to overcome some common types of damage reduction.
Weapon Enhancement
DR Type Bonus Equivalent
Cold iron/silver +3
Adamantine* +4
Alignment-based +5
The ruling you quoted is an extension of that rule:
DR/Epic: A type of damage reduction, DR/epic can be overcome only by a weapon with an enhancement bonus of +6 or greater. Weapons with special abilities also count as epic for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction if the total bonus value of all of their abilities (including the enhancement bonus) is +6 or greater.
And as you can read in the CRB with the paladin:
Smite Evil (Su): Once per day, a paladin can call out to the powers of good to aid her in her struggle against evil. As a swift action, the paladin chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is evil, the paladin adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack rolls and adds her paladin level to all damage rolls made against the target of her smite. If the target of smite evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the paladin possesses. Regardless of the target, smite evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess.
You may rule as you want as GM, but your argument about the smite not applying with epic is flawed.
Azrael I shouldn't have taken away the extra dmg I was thinking about it while painting today.
Mythic adds a whole other set of rules Lynn that add on things that change the system.
The CRB is older and the Mythic changes the rules for the system that we are using in it adds in EPIC DR which is not by passed by a regular Paladin's Smite that is why the Army could not take on the Chimera.
As a mythic monster, Chimera represents a
significant challenge that the PCs’ army simply cannot
overcome. No matter how many brave attacks they mount
against it, the chimera shrugs off their efforts with its epic
damage reduction and its spell resistance, ignoring the
Knights of Kenabres to attack the PCs alone.
This would include the fact that 100 paladins smiting Could not do any significant damage to the Chimera.
Not trying to change your house rule, but would like to contribute to the discussion.
From Nov. 2014:
RAW, smite would currently bypass DR/Epic.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Where did you get this Quote it is the exact same as the one that tink Posted by from 2012
|
|
I found it twice from a quick google search. I can find it again if you need it. Here it is I am fine with your call for a home game and understand your reason for doing it. I do not want a round of arrows to smite down the first mythic threat we meet. Note that the cost might be dropping the paladin though.
I do believe that a paladin's smite will bypass DR epic by RAW and saw multiple references to it doing so, but am not sure those references were speaking from authority. Here is what I am finding on the subject:
DR/epic is a form of damage reduction. Smite ignores all damage reduction. Why would you think otherwise? It ignores DR/-, which is objectively better.
Nov 14, 2012, 05:08 pm | FLAG | LIST
It was posted in the Play Test Thread for Mythic, in the Mythic book and on their Website SRD it says that it does not by pass. I will stick with it here and look into it more. There isn't another character in this book with DR/EPIC
I 50% agree that DR/- is better since DR epic is a carry over from 3.5 and you would have to spend a Ton of money to by pass the DR in 3.5, PF lessens the impact of DR considerably but also stops the golf bag of weapons needing to be carried around.
You know the rule, that more specific rules beat the more general rules?
General rule (applies to all character classes):
You only can overcome DR/silver with a silver weapon or an enhancement +3
Specific rule (applies only to the pally and his smite):
Pally smite overcomes ANY DR.
Mythic (applies to all clasees):
you need +6 to overcome DR/Epic
Another general rule. Still beaten by the more specific rule. You even got a ruling from the developers declaring that smite beats DR/epic.
If someone wanted to change that, it would be like with the elf's immunity to paralysis. There is the ghast, who explicitly states it's paralyze even affects elves.
If they wanted to change the ANY DR of the paladin smite, they would have stated it, right next to the need for a +6 weapon.
And now some AP author comes along and wants to make sure, that the mythic monster gets fought by the PCs. Because if you'd put it up against the army, it would be down in the first round. It totally makes sense to tell the story that way. But it is in no way backed by the rules.
I get what you are saying, we agreed to play with the Mythic Rules so in the Mythic rule book which I do own and I did provide a link to it states that DR/Epic: A type of damage reduction, DR/epic can be overcome only by a weapon with an enhancement bonus of +6 or greater. Weapons with special abilities also count as epic for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction if the total bonus value of all of their abilities (including the enhancement bonus) is +6 or greater.
Right now we are sticking with the rule I have put in place, afterwards we can discuss and I will continue to look up the rules as such.
It is weapon bonus, so if your weapon was say +4 and you had bane on it the total would equal out to +6 weapon enchantment. If this target is evil, the paladin adds her Charisma bonus
Now if it said weapon enhancement bonus.
If you lets said, did you Divine Bond (Sp): Upon reaching 5th level, a paladin forms a divine bond with her god. This bond can take one of two forms. Once the form is chosen, it cannot be changed.
The first type of bond allows the paladin to enhance her weapon as a standard action by calling upon the aid of a celestial spirit for 1 minute per paladin level. When called, the spirit causes the weapon to shed light as a torch. At 5th level, this spirit grants the weapon a +1 enhancement bonus. For every three levels beyond 5th, the weapon gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +6 at 20th level.
Right there it tells you that you can add up to +6, or if your weapon was +4 and you could add the +2 you would be +6
I realize again that the original rules specifically call out Smite as by passing DR but the Special rules in Mythic counter that and supercede it... for right now
Don't worry about Lynn. We'll get that thing.
|
|
Not worried about Lynn so much. Just trying to maximize damage. If an AOO drops Azrael then he does no arrow damage. I think all of his shots do a little more damage than your attack. Nice to get both but this is more of a sure thing, I think. IF the enemy has both reach and combat reflexes I may have made an error...
Need Mythic Blue who can carry wands of magic missile and do strafing runs!