Haha Karmid, there wouldn't happen to be a Gunslinger/Inquisitor acting as class cannon in that game, would it? :D
And Drasven, I had a similar beast(with a Scythe, and a buddy/lover/slave with Butterfly Sting) for a evil campaign: an Dhampir Antipaladin(Dread Vanguard)/Arcanist(Blood Arcanist) (going with full dimensional chain and Arcane Armor Mastery).
There's many many fun concepts to explore...amusingly, I also considered what "match" Lia would have - turns out she would either be a
(possibly Unchained) Monk ^_^ - mostly about defenses - her original build concept had her pick up Snake Style and Deflect Arrows to represent her short-term prophetic vision - and would fit her flavor as Temple Maiden.
Or a
Phantom Thief Unchained Rogue(also Evasion, Uncanny Dodge - and stuff like the Edge Unlocks for Sense Motive or Perception). Plus of course fun Talent stuff.
Ro's gestalt would be easy I think, Flying Blade Swashbuckler.
Still building.
My favorite absurd gestalt was a ragebred skinwalker barbarian vivisectionist beastmorph alchemist named Bill the Butcher, who looked like Bebop from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I had pounce, full progression sneak attack, and an absurd number of natural attacks. It was for a two-person run of the Ruby Phoenix Tournament, and I loved melting opponents into goo.
I think the most sickening gestalt I had in a game was a Druid(don't remember the PRC)/Barbarian(going into Frenzied Berserker) back in 3.5...I don't remember the exact build, but I do remember he had absurd speed, up to huge size, with a two-handed weapon as a Bear and deathless frenzy(which keeps you running regardless of how negative your HP become...).
The main point of my team was to a.: evade me until frenzy has run it's course and b.: make sure I'm not at negative HP at that point.
It was fun :D
(of course, 3.5 was completely broken near the end with all the power creep and absurd Feat Combos - so of course the most "broken" one must have been with that - but as said, it was absurd, AND fun))
I know the build.
Don't think it was Druid much. Unless it was Gestalt Druid/Barbarian
Bear warrior.
Frenzied Warrior.
Complete Warrior.
weee!!!
Amazing what talking about gestalt builds can do to the posting rate around here ;)
Haha, fun amusement!
GM, by the time you get back in mid-August, I will have character sheets ready for audit (and hopefully the other players will have helped me narrow down who I'm bringing in).
Hayum...now you got me thinking, Drasven. Yeah, I believe there was Bear Warrior in there, too. But that game definitely went Gestalt. So what was the other side? Ack. Gotta see if I still have those character sheets around somewhere.
Might still have been Druid, for some fancy shenanigans and buffs. But not the Bear Form. Kudos, you knew my own build better than me :D But those 3.5 days are long gone, since...
@Posting Rate: We also got a new guy...and I'm trying to maintain activity :D
@Gestalt: I also had, for my game, 3 options in Recruitment that people could pick:
a.: They could get a good number of racial Feats(I think 6 or so over the first 10 levels).
b.: They could get a free VMC
c.: They could get 3 levels of Gestalt(as in, the first 3 levels they could level as Gestalt(with a locked Gestalt Class of their choice), then only a single level onwards from there).
c.: was hands down the preferred pick of the applicants. It turns out even 3 levels can "patch up" or improve so many things/make characters that much more versatile.
I didn't have any options to run a proper table in a long time, but I decided to keep that as default for the future. It so helps patch up early weaknesses or shortcomings and gives a kickstart to the group, while wise choices can be helpful long into the game.
Haha Karmid, there wouldn't happen to be a Gunslinger/Inquisitor acting as class cannon in that game, would it? :D
=)
Yes it would.
I've always liked Dawnflower Dervish Bard 1 / Magus (pick you flavor) X for that kind of build Karmid. That was the very first character I ever built back when I played PFS. I chose Hexcrafter myself. It's very serviceable and gets you Dex attack and damage from level one. Eldrich Scion didn't exist back then, but it would allow you to stick with CHA for casting all the way through, and there are several really sweet bloodlines to choose from. Take the Bade of Mercy trait and it's a really good intimidation build.
That might work, I was trying to go for a divine caster actually. Paladin makes a great base for the sword part, but the spellcasting sucks hard. I haven't looked at it in years however. Probably could do something with Warpriest or something now...
b.: They could get a free VMC
I like VMCs, they are actually quite fun if you pick the right one. A free one would be extra cool too.
A Warpriest wouldn't even need the dip, they have the feats to afford taking Weapon Finesse and Dervish Dance, you'd just have to wait until 3rd level. The downer with Warpriest is the lack of skill points.
Switching Inquisitor for Magus would be better in my book because you keep the skill points coming. Also it's even better for Intimidation builds. Blade of Mercy for nonlethal damage with scimitar + Enforcer for a free action intimidate of a hit works really well with Stern Gaze.
Hm. For the Scimitar-Sarenrae-build...personally I'd go with a Human Oracle of Metal(Spirit Guide kinda locked into Flame) with Lame Curse and Blade of Mercy Trait.
Feats: Human:Weapon Finesse, L1:Enforcer, L3:Dervish Dance, L5:Extra Revelation, L7:Weapon Focus(Scimitar), L9:Way of the Merciful, L11:Improved Critical(Scimitar), L13:Great Fortitude, L15:Power Attack, L17:Hurtful, L19:whatever(I'm sure I forgot something good, so we can squeeze that in earlier).
Revelations: L1:Skill at Arms, L3:Cinder Dance(via Flame Spirit), L5:Dance of Blades, L11:Armor Mastery, L19:Iron Skin.
I would prefer other approaches, but when you want (divine) casting, I'm partial to full casters.
This would end with 40 feet speed(despite lameness), ignoring 20 feet of difficult terrain, with no reduction for encumbrance or armor, immune to fatigue and later exhaustion.
You also get a good selection of fire-based spells, and both those and all weapon effects(such as the automatic flaming) can be nonlethal at your choice...and if you do nonlethal damage with a weapon, you auto-heal 2d6 each round.
A Mithral Heavy Full Plate would have no Armor Check Penalty, allow for +6 Dex(you'd be higher than that, but still good enough) and not slow you down. (I just like the visual of a highly mobile heavily armored combatant - I blame watching too many Mecha-Animes)
You have full casting progression as an Oracle - which means e.g. access to Heal starting at level 12...one reason I like good mobility, as you can disengage and re-engage with many slower foes, taking a moment to heal up or buff - or prevent them from running/evading you. In the ultra-late game, you also get Fiery Body, Repel Metal and 2/day SLA stoneskin, in capstone 2 more Feats and another +5 Max Dex for your armor.
You also get Keen Edge(so could possibly forgo Improved Critical), and Lead Edge(which stacks with an actual size increase such as from Righteous Might, making the scimitar a 3d6 weapon)), as well as the ever-cheesable Fire Seeds.
I did a similar build with Outslug Style(to trigger Dance of Blades for moving 10 feet) once and it was quite fun.
lol
I see a cheese build I once did as well.
Oracles are great. I love deaf oracles.
I was running a Deaf/Mute Oracle in a Way of the Wicked-Game that used Spheres of Power - who was roughly based on Robin of Witch Hunter Robin.
She had touch-based telepathy from Mind-sphere.(via Read Mind/Project Thoughts and Tactile Charm I think.) (Plus she spent a linguistics-point on lip-reading, but had to see them from up close and could not answer).
She incinerated stuff(Spherecasting is strongly frontloaded) and was a blast to play. But the main draw was her deafness and muteness. It was challenging to roleplay, but also an awesome experience.
(The GM also commented on that, having to exclude her from audio-cues was special, plus he was actually a sign language specialist working with non-verbal people so he found the experience of GM'ing such a character doubly interesting.)
Regarding the current game: Should I cast a Web near the bottom? To break our fall? Or wait with casting until we're already on the way downwards? :D
I'll like the web casted but what would the web be anchored too?
The walls, as well as the supports - we only really see the ground floor but the way it was described makes me think it should be able to find a spot. No guarantee, though :)
Not a bad idea, but maybe let's wait until we have a better idea of what's coming as we go up? I'm assuming the web spell can be dismissed by Lia whenever she wants so we don't end up stuck there if it were to ctach us after a fall?
Yes, I'm not afraid to ask stupid questions!
How's the character coming along Poly?
We will have a 6th player! I've heard back from stormraven and he's in. He's mulling some ideas for characters and will post to discussion here soon.
Here's a first draft of Kendra and her silvanshee familiar, Whisper. I ended up trying out the Chosen One archetype instead of Virtuous Bravo. I still have about 1000 gp to spend on something fun. Highlights: her AC is quite high, and with smite evil and power attack she's hitting at +17/+12 for 1d10+17/17-20/x2 and demoralizing opponents with each hit. She can either further send her AC sky high or start doling out additional protection to teammates to ensure that they don't die. (And if it comes to it, she can drop her physical shield, cast shield, and grip her bardiche in both hands to further increase her damage output without sacrificing AC.)
Whisper, for her part, can do a lot of the things that Kendra can't, like know things, notice things, sneak around, and cast useful spells. She also used to be a bird, and now she's a cat. It's a whole thing.
I'm still working on her backstory, personality, etc., but I wanted to solicit any feedback so far.
Female Varisian Human Chosen One Paladin of Shelyn 7
LG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +1; Senses Perception +0
Aura courage (10 ft.)
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Defense
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AC 26, touch 11, flat-footed 25 (+1 Dex, +10 armor, +4 shield, +1 natural)
hp 64 (7d10+21)
Fort +14, Ref +10, Will +12; +2 vs. charm and compulsion
Defensive Abilities divine grace +5; Immune disease, fear
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Offense
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Speed: 20 ft.
Melee: +1 keen bardiche +14/+9 (1d10+6/17-20)
Special Attacks: smite evil (3/day, +5 attack and AC, +7 damage)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 7th; concentration +12)
At Will—detect evil
3rd—protection from energy
2nd—barkskin
1st—shield, aura of deflection
Paladin Spells Known (CL 7th; concentration +12)
2nd—paladin’s sacrifice
1st—divine favor, grace, hero’s defiance
Domain Defense (subdomain of Protection)
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Statistics
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Str 20, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 20
Base Atk +7; CMB +12; CMD 23
Feats: Cornugon Smash, Power Attack, Shield Brace, Shield Focus, Weapon Focus (bardiche)
Traits: Birthmark (campaign)), Extremely Fashionable (equipment), Savant (social)
Skills: Diplomacy +16, Handle Animal +15, Intimidate +16, Perform (strings) +19, Sense Motive +10
Languages: Common
SQ: aura of good, channel positive energy (DC 18, 4d6), divine emissary, lay on hands (3d6, 8/day), mercies (shaken, dazed)
Gear +1 keen bardiche, +1 full plate, +1 darkwood heavy shield, amulet of natural armor +1, belt of giant’s strength +2, headband of alluring charisma +2, jewelry & clothing worth 150 gp, masterwork cello, 1030 gp
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Special Abilities
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Aura of Good (Ex): The power of a paladin's aura of good (see the detect good spell) is equal to her paladin level.
Detect Evil (Sp): At will, a paladin can use detect evil, as the spell. A paladin can, as a move action, concentrate on a single item or individual within 60 feet and determine if it is evil, learning the strength of its aura as if having studied it for 3 rounds. While focusing on one individual or object, the paladin does not detect evil in any other object or individual within range.
Smite Evil (Su): Once per day, a paladin can call out to the powers of good to aid her in her struggle against evil. As a swift action, the paladin chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is evil, the paladin adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack rolls and adds her paladin level to all damage rolls made against the target of her smite. If the target of smite evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the paladin possesses. Regardless of the target, smite evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess.
In addition, while smite evil is in effect, the paladin gains a deflection bonus equal to her Charisma modifier (if any) to her AC against attacks made by the target of the smite. If the paladin targets a creature that is not evil, the smite is wasted with no effect.
The smite evil effect remains until the target of the smite is dead or the next time the paladin rests and regains her uses of this ability. At 4th level, and at every three levels thereafter, the paladin may smite evil one additional time per day, as indicated on Table: Paladin, to a maximum of seven times per day at 19th level.
Divine Grace (Su): At 2nd level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.
Lay On Hands (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, a paladin can heal wounds (her own or those of others) by touch. Each day she can use this ability a number of times equal to 1/2 her paladin level plus her Charisma modifier. With one use of this ability, a paladin can heal 1d6 hit points of damage for every two paladin levels she possesses. Using this ability is a standard action, unless the paladin targets herself, in which case it is a swift action. Despite the name of this ability, a paladin only needs one free hand to use this ability.
Alternatively, a paladin can use this healing power to deal damage to undead creatures, dealing 1d6 points of damage for every two levels the paladin possesses. Using lay on hands in this way requires a successful melee touch attack and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. Undead do not receive a saving throw against this damage.
Aura of Courage (Su): At 3rd level, a paladin is immune to fear (magical or otherwise). Each ally within 10 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects. This ability functions only while the paladin is conscious, not if she is unconscious or dead.
Divine Health (Ex): At 3rd level, a paladin is immune to all diseases, including supernatural and magical diseases, including mummy rot.
Mercy (Su): At 3rd level, and every three levels thereafter, a paladin can select one mercy. Each mercy adds an effect to the paladin's lay on hands ability. Whenever the paladin uses lay on hands to heal damage to one target, the target also receives the additional effects from all of the mercies possessed by the paladin. A mercy can remove a condition caused by a curse, disease, or poison without curing the affliction. Such conditions return after 1 hour unless the mercy actually removes the affliction that causes the condition.
These abilities are cumulative. For example, a 12th-level paladin's lay on hands ability heals 6d6 points of damage and might also cure fatigued and exhausted conditions as well as removing diseases and neutralizing poisons. Once a condition or spell effect is chosen, it can't be changed.
Shaken: The target is no longer shaken.
Dazed: The target is no longer dazed.
Channel Positive Energy (Su): When a paladin reaches 4th level, she gains the supernatural ability to channel positive energy like a cleric. Using this ability consumes two uses of her lay on hands ability. A paladin uses her level as her effective cleric level when channeling positive energy. This is a Charisma-based ability.
Spells: Beginning at 4th level, a paladin gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells which are drawn from the paladin spell list presented in Spell Lists. A paladin must choose and prepare her spells in advance.
To prepare or cast a spell, a paladin must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a paladin's spell is 10 + the spell level + the paladin's Charisma modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a paladin can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Paladin. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Charisma score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells). When Table: Paladin indicates that the paladin gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, she gains only the bonus spells she would be entitled to based on her Charisma score for that spell level.
A paladin must spend 1 hour each day in quiet prayer and meditation to regain her daily allotment of spells. A paladin may prepare and cast any spell on the paladin spell list, provided that she can cast spells of that level, but she must choose which spells to prepare during her daily meditation.
Through 3rd level, a paladin has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, her caster level is equal to her paladin level – 3.
Bondless: A chosen one does not gain the divine bond class feature.
Divine Emissary (Ex): At 1st level, a chosen one gains an emissary familiar, treating her paladin level as her wizard level for the purpose of this ability.
Religious Mentor (Ex): The chosen one doesn’t gain Knowledge (religion) as a class skill.
Delayed Grace (Su): A chosen one begins her adventuring career without fully understanding her true potential. She receives the smite evil ability at 2nd level and the divine grace ability at 4th level. This does not affect the rate at which she gains additional uses per day of smite evil, so she still gains her second use at 4th level, her third at 7th level, and so on. This ability alters divine grace and smite evil.
Defense Domain: Your faith is your greatest source of protection, and you can use that faith to defend others. In addition, you receive a +1 resistance bonus on saving throws. This bonus increases by 1 for every 5 levels you possess.
Deflection Aura (Su): Once each day, you can emit a 20-foot aura for a number of rounds equal to your cleric level. Allies within the aura gain a +2 deflection bonus to AC and combat maneuver defense.
Birthmark: You were born with a strange birthmark that looks very similar to the holy symbol of the god you chose to worship later in life. This birthmark can serve you as a divine focus for casting spells, and as a physical manifestation of your faith, and it increases your devotion to your god. You gain a +2 trait bonus on all saving throws against charm and compulsion effects.
Extremely Fashionable: You really know how to make a good impression when you’re dressed well. Whenever you are wearing clothing and/or jewelry worth at least 150 gp (and not otherwise covered in gore, sewage, or other things that mar your overall look), you gain a +1 trait bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks. One of these skills (your choice: Intimidate) is a class skill for you.
Savant: From a very young age, the ability to master performance types has come quite naturally to you. Choose a performance type (Strings). You gain a +2 trait bonus on all Perform checks made using that performance type. Perform is always a class skill for you.
Whisper
NG Tiny outsider (agathion, extraplanar, good) Emissary of Shelyn
Init +6; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +10
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Defense
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AC 19, touch 14, flat-footed 17 (+2 Dex, +5 natural, +2 size)
hp 32 (7 hd)
Fort +7, Ref +6, Will +7; +4 vs. poison
Defense Improved Evasion; DR 5/evil or silver; Immune electricity, petrification; Resist cold 10, sonic 10; SR 13
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft., fly 90 ft. (good)
Melee bite +11 (1d3–4), 2 claws +11 (1d2–4)
Special Attacks heroic strength, pounce
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 2nd; concentration +3)
Constant—know direction, speak with animals
At will—dancing lights, guidance, prestidigitation, stabilize
1/day—dimension door (self plus 5 lbs. of objects only), bit of luck
1/week—commune (6 questions, CL 12th)
Domain Luck
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Statistics
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Str 3, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 13
Base Atk +7; CMB +7; CMD 13 (17 vs. trip)
Feats Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse
Skills Acrobatics +11, Climb +7, Diplomacy +8, Fly +10, Handle Animal +8, Intimidate +8, Knowledge (arcana) +5, Knowledge (planes) +5, Knowledge (religion) +19, Perception +10, Perform (strings) +8, Sense Motive +11, Stealth +19; Racial Modifiers +4 Acrobatics, +4 Perception, +4 Stealth
Languages Celestial, Draconic, Infernal; speak with animals, truespeech
SQ cat’s luck, change shape (thrush), divine guidance, domain influence (luck), emissary skills, empathic link, flight, improved evasion, lay on hands (1d6, 1/day, always as a 2nd-level paladin), lay on paws, religious mentor, share will, speak with master, spectral mist, true form
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Special Abilities
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Cat’s Luck (Su) A silvanshee adds its Charisma modifier as a luck bonus on all its saving throws. Once per day as a standard action, it can also grant this bonus to one ally within 30 feet for 10 minutes.
Heroic Strength (Su) Once per day, a silvanshee can grant itself a +8 enhancement bonus to Strength for 1 minute.
Spectral Mist (Su) A silvanshee can assume an eerie, mist-like form roughly the size and shape of a cat. This ability has the same effect as a gaseous form spell, except the silvanshee retains its own DR and supernatural abilities and can move at its normal speed. It can remain in mist form up to 5 minutes per day. This duration does not have to be consecutive, but it must be used in 1-minute increments.
Emissary Skills: An emissary treats Heal, Knowledge (religion), and Sense Motive as class skills.
Divine Guidance (Sp): An emissary can cast guidance at will. This replaces alertness.
Improved Evasion (Ex): When subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex saving throw for half damage, a familiar takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw and half damage even if the saving throw fails.
Share Will (Su): Whenever an emissary or its master fails a saving throw against a mind-affecting effect that affects only one of them, the other can attempt the saving throw as well. If this second saving throw is a success, treat the original result as a success, and the emissary and its master can’t use this ability again for 24 hours. On a failure, both the emissary and its master suffer the effects of the failed saving throw, even if one of them wouldn’t ordinarily be a valid target. This replaces share spells.
Empathic Link (Su): The master has an empathic link with his familiar to a 1 mile distance. The master can communicate empathically with the familiar, but cannot see through its eyes. Because of the link's limited nature, only general emotions can be shared. The master has the same connection to an item or place that his familiar does.
Domain Influence (Sp or Su): At 3rd level, the emissary gains a spark of divine power from the deity its master worships. Choose one of that deity’s domains that grants a 1st-level domain power usable a number of times per day equal to 3 + the user’s Wisdom modifier. The emissary can use that power once per day. This replaces deliver touch spells.
Bit of Luck (Sp): You can touch a willing creature as a standard action, giving it a bit of luck. For the next round, any time the target rolls a d20, he may roll twice and take the more favorable result. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
Speak with Master (Ex): If the master is 5th level or higher, a familiar and the master can communicate verbally as if they were using a common language. Other creatures do not understand the communication without magical help.
Religious Mentor (Ex): The familiar’s sworn duty is to help train the chosen one for her future glory. The familiar is treated as having a number of ranks in Knowledge (religion) equal to the chosen one’s paladin level.
Lay on Paws (Su): At 2nd level, a chosen one’s familiar is able to borrow some of her divine energy to heal itself and others. The familiar can use the chosen one’s lay on hands ability, including all of her mercies, but each such use consumes two uses of the paladin’s lay on hands ability. Starting at 4th level, the familiar can also channel positive energy, but each such use consumes four uses of the paladin’s lay on hands ability. This ability alters lay on hands and channel positive energy.
True Form (Ex): At 7th level, a chosen one’s familiar reveals its true form, transforming into an outsider improved familiar that matches the chosen one’s patron’s alignment (typically an arbiter, a cassisian, a harbinger, or a silvanshee, but potentially any lawful neutral, lawful good, or neutral good outsider familiar depending on the patron). The familiar gains the change shape universal monster ability if it doesn’t already have it, which it can use at will to transform into its original form or back to its true form.
Hi guys, I’m excited to jump into your game!
So, here are some character ideas I had and a question or two for some of you.
When Ro initially pitched the game to me, I was thinking about dusting off one of Shelyn’s pally / monks, similar to Udaya here – a lightly armored, mobile hellion. Flurrying with a glaive just brings a smile to my face. But Ro mentioned that Poly is bringing a Shelyn Pally to the party so I scratched that idea.
Onto my other concepts… but these hinge on certain other characters not minding sharing some of their solo spotlight. Lia, do you mind another arcane caster in the mix? If NOT, then we have these possibles:
Character #1: Rogue / Sorcerer (like Hawk). He’s more of a light-fingered but good-natured rascal who is fascinated with magic, monsters, and dusty old tombs… but he isn’t above pilfering or backstabbing baddies in a dungeon. Also, he could then go Arcane Trickster for more Rogue and Sorcerer fun.
Character #2: Rogue / Sorcerer (like Rajuna). He’s more a grimmer, combat-intense guy with his archetype in Knife Master… so way more emphasis on the Rogue part and Sorcerer is more a means to an end for him.
Looking at the party, you could probably use a little more ranged offense… which leads to these two ‘variations on a theme’
Character #3: Zen Archer Monk (ZAM) / Sorcerer (like Senna). This would be a balanced approach between Monk and Sorcerer with plenty of oomph from both. To emphasize monk and de-emphasize sorcerer (leaving Lia the star in that field), I'd be inclined to go with the WIS-based Empyreal bloodline as it synergizes like a boss with Monk. Alternately…
Character #4: ZAM / Sorcerer with many more levels thrown into ZAM so sorcery is more of a dabble, shoring up weaknesses and basically making the archer shine a bit more.
Now, if Lia would really prefer to stand alone in the casting arena (no judgment here), I could trot out one of these choices:
Character #5: ZAM / Rogue Nasty as a ‘first strike’ with sneak attack dice on a bowshot and not too bad up-close and personal. Great for providing a flank and still capable of hitting at range as well.
Character #6: ZAM all day This would be a pretty vanilla build but I could certainly have fun playing him as philosophical about his profession. I tend to prefer multiclass characters, I just find them more interesting the play.
This last option would be a good alternative if Poly ends up not going with a front-liner for some reason…
Character #7: uMonk / Rogue (like Bahari). Bahari is a solid scout and utterly lethal flanking buddy – flurry plus Sneak Attack dice… hurt.
Anyhow, that’s as far as my thinking has gotten me for the moment. Thoughts? Questions?
Web is 10min/level, but Dismissible, yes. That said, I'm not even sure we would properly get stuck, I'd just hope it would break our fall decently.
As for the spotlight: I by no means worry about a second arcane caster. I just meant that we had several "roles" that were not filled, such as a tank, or a dedicated ranged damage dealer - and it would be preferable to look at those before doubling up on existing roles.
So I'd actually favor something like 3.(albeit I admittedly don't see how going SAD with Empyreal somehow weakens sorcerer - not that I mind, I'd do the same).
Pure ZAM can be a utterly crazy and optimized archery machine. I think that would go against the spirit of not min-maxing for this game, or shooting yourself in the foot on purpose. So if you prefer multiclass, by all means, but I think the "archer" caster would be a better fit for our vacancies than the "trickster" caster.
(That said, all multiclassing that hinders casting progression would 'automatically' leave Lia as "star in the field" in the long run.).
However, one thing: During a battle against a number of Ghouls, one of the players insisted on standing right on the edge of a pit that Lia had cast - refusing to 5-foot step away(towards an identical tactical position, no flank was possible) and instead risking a Reflex save to fall into the pit(that was holding several Ghouls) for reasons that are his own, for several rounds, and barely managing with a hero point if memory serves.
Since that event, Lia strictly avoids using lingering area damage/threats for fear of her allies storming in and killing themselves.
I point that out because it's an emotional topic for her(said character basically dismissed her worries) and she would likely not react positively if you used any such spells near the group.
(By all means, you do you. I am just pointing out that that is potential drama going to happen. That we can play out. Or that you can circumvent by picking different spells. Or settle OOC in some way and just figure out how we reached an agreement IC - (and just to be more precise: that means stuff like the pit line etc...nauseating cloud for example is just a area disable that won't kill her allies, that is fine, if they want to run in and vomit they are free to do so.)
@Poly: I guessing you went with standard WBL? We are a very poor party, I don't know if we're at 50% WBL. I think we're going to have to work out loot and wealth across the party in some way.
Thanks for the feedback, Lia.
So I'd actually favor something like 3.(albeit I admittedly don't see how going SAD with Empyreal somehow weakens sorcerer - not that I mind, I'd do the same).
It was a minor point and I communicated it poorly. I just meant that if you have two identical characters: a ZAM/Sorc (with say a Draconic bloodline) vs a ZAM/sorc (with an Empyreal bloodline) the ZAM is going to be a bit stronger with the Empyreal Sorc because you are goosing the stat (WIS) that really benefits the ZAM. So you are making the ZAM 'stronger' relative to the Sorcerer. In the end, each bloodline has bennies and disadvantages and you really have to go with the one that works with your playstyle. I personally don't love the Empyreal/Celestial bloodline spells, especially when you have a full cleric in the group. YMMV.
That said, all multiclassing that hinders casting progression would 'automatically' leave Lia as "star in the field" in the long run.
Quite true. But some folks really like to stand totally alone and as I PM'd Ro, my goal is to not step on anyone's toes if humanly possible.
So, I'll put you down as a vote for Char #3. Thanks!
I definitely went with standard WBL and cut back from my initial wishlist. Cutting keen on the bardiche would knock this back down 6000 gp and I could easily afford to lose the amulet of natural armor and de-magic the shield. Are you all poor due to a lack of loot or a lack of selling said loot?
I think we role-played through a lot of areas, but didn't 'go back' to try to loot every coin we missed in every room we passed in order to move the story forward. So we probably missed out on approximately 1/3 the amount of possible treasure we could find? Just a guess really. We've gotten plenty of STUFF so far, but little real coinage or direct equivalent. Most everything we found we have been using I think, so not always a lot to sell either.
Hi guys, I’m excited to jump into your game!
So, here are some character ideas I had and a question or two for some of you.
When Ro initially pitched the game to me, I was thinking about dusting off one of Shelyn’s pally / monks, similar to Udaya here – a lightly armored, mobile hellion. Flurrying with a glaive just brings a smile to my face. But Ro mentioned that Poly is bringing a Shelyn Pally to the party so I scratched that idea.Onto my other concepts… but these hinge on certain other characters not minding sharing some of their solo spotlight. Lia, do you mind another arcane caster in the mix? If NOT, then we have these possibles:
Character #1: Rogue / Sorcerer (like Hawk). He’s more of a light-fingered but good-natured rascal who is fascinated with magic, monsters, and dusty old tombs… but he isn’t above pilfering or backstabbing baddies in a dungeon. Also, he could then go Arcane Trickster for more Rogue and Sorcerer fun.
Character #2: Rogue / Sorcerer (like Rajuna). He’s more a grimmer, combat-intense guy with his archetype in Knife Master… so way more emphasis on the Rogue part and Sorcerer is more a means to an end for him.
Looking at the party, you could probably use a little more ranged offense… which leads to these two ‘variations on a theme’
Character #3: Zen Archer Monk (ZAM) / Sorcerer (like Senna). This would be a balanced approach between Monk and Sorcerer with plenty of oomph from both. To emphasize monk and de-emphasize sorcerer (leaving Lia the star in that field), I'd be inclined to go with the WIS-based Empyreal bloodline as it synergizes like a boss with Monk. Alternately…
Character #4: ZAM / Sorcerer with many more levels thrown into ZAM so sorcery is more of a dabble, shoring up weaknesses and basically making the archer...
For some reason I saw this and suddenly Images of Various ZAKUs from Gundam series popped out and stormraven is this super enthusiastic sales rep hyping out each ZAKU Model to the prospective buyer (me).
I'm guessing play which you feel best.
Having two pallys might just be interesting.
ZAKU #3 means I can hide behind you.
ZAKU #7 looks very interesting and promises an intense 'massage' session for our foes.
I for one don't mind sharing the spotlight, in fact I usually hide behind other's spotlight.
@Empyreal: Yeah, the spells are not my favorites, either. But getting to focus on the one stat still benefits a caster across the board - so I suppose it would make a difference if you would otherwise focus on Cha and leave the ZAM rudimentary - I may have misunderstood, assuming you would either split between the attributes or go with Wisdom, anyway(since focusing on the casting stat at half progression may not be efficient in the long run) - so in my view WIS was already the primary attribute and I wondered how swapping the Sorc over was not a good idea :)
@Toes: Don't worry. I also wouldn't mind if you went full caster - as previously explained my main worry was that we simply had different needs - mainly for a (tanky) frontliner which poly was kind enough to provide.
The secondary worry was that as mentioned before, we are hardly optimized - and doubling up on one of the areas with a more min-maxed build would not 'feel' fair towards the pre-existing character(not just true for Lia, for all of us). So yeah, I prefer the Paladin and the Archer, simply because they fill in weaknesses/cover parts we were lacking. With that many people in the party, there will be SOME overlap, and that's not a worry.
@Loot: We also often went with the flavor-options. Lia befriended one of the enemies(meaning no loot from her) in Thistletop(where we went pretty much straight to the bossfight, skipping entire areas, then not beating up the optional boss).
More recently, we burned down a cursed Lich-House - which we did pretty much explored but not go through with a fine comb for loot.
We were more focused on mementos than on valuables :)
Lastly, some of our 'valuables' left with the characters that took possession of them, then dropped from the game.
So yeah, a combination of several factors lead to us being pretty light-weight in the WBL-spectrum...I think Lia is the worst offender. She has a Butterfly Kite, a Starknife, and maybe a Scarf :D
And some pretty glass marbles I think.
(I should add, because my air-headed mistress forgot: She did receive some gold at some point in the game, but decided to use half to set up a trust fund for her roommate Kira, then sent half of whats left home to support her family, and I have no idea what she did with what little remained. Probably gave it to some street urchin as soon as we arrived in Magnimar or something.)
Thanks, Drasven! I'll put you down for #3 and/or #7.
Ro, Karmid, likely-offline-GM, and Poly... any additional thoughts or votes?
I do think having a good ranged character in the party would help a lot. We're at 7th level now, so things are going to start flying. Maybe I'm too scarred from too many encounters where nobody is well prepared for it and even the not terribly dangerous situations require endless chipping away at an enemy, dragging things out forever. But also we're getting past the point of low level "nuisance" encounters of the kind Paizo seems to like so much. Future flying things are probably going to be very dangerous.
Any of the Zen Archer builds look good to me. I'll say #3, #4, and #5. I'm leaving off #6 because you mentioned liking multi-class characters, and Zen Archer is very one trick so you'll have more variety in the things you do.
As for loot, we have had more coming in recently, since arriving in Magnimar. We haven't gotten to selling stuff and dividing up the spoils quite yet. I don't think it's going to be so much it will bring us up to anything like 7th WBL though. I did take a quick look through inactive character's sheets to see if any of them had claimed anything significant that we could repossess and sell. 4 +1 Elf Bane Arrows was all I found.
It's also true we've disposed of some things that we could have sold for RP use. I recall Ro taking the portrait of Iesha from Foxglove Manor. She gave it to Ameiko to hang in the Rusty Dragon so it could possibly be seen and identified by family or friends so they could be told what happened to her. But again, I doubt the painting was worth so much it would have notably changed things.
Cool. Thanks, Ro!
If the GM would rather I come in at lower-than-WBL, I can do that. I'll wait for them to return.
I absolutely respect not combing through the game environment for loot like one might do in a video game, because we're trying to portray our characters as people and not as avatars of greed. A few years ago I was playing a bard in a campaign of War for the Crown, where we were very cash-flush, and he would regularly donate large sums of money to other people because he had grown up in abject poverty and was homeless during his early adulthood. He spent most of his personal gold making improvements to the town that he was given stewardship over to make the lives of the people there better, above and beyond what the AP/GM probably expected.
The way that I am writing Kendra is very much in line with fighting against injustice in the world, especially economic injustice. I also want to give her a bit of a flaw in this regard, sort of going with what I perceive as a theme in the game of the corruption of sin re: ancient Thassilon and the Runelords. I could see Kendra teetering on the edge with Greed, potentially, though I'm not committing to that just yet. To that end, she would very much like her nice things and not see a crusade against poverty as a reason not to enjoy the finer things of life, which are themselves gifts from the gods. Further, if she is better able to serve people by accruing valuable magical items, then she will.
Another question, if I may: are our new characters also expected to have long-standing associations with Sandpoint? I see that you all are in Magnimar now, presumably in the final dungeon (or nearly there), so a long-standing fellow from the cathedral suddenly showing up might not make as much sense. My current backstory draft assumes that Kendra has spent most of her time in Magnimar.
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@stormraven: As a player who is as new as you are to the game, I don't think I have as much insight into what the party needs. So I would tell you to play what would be the most fun for you, like the table told me. My character went through several iterations during my drafting process, starting as a Virtuous Bravo paladin prestiging into Devoted Muse and going all-in Dex/Cha with a glaive and the bladed brush feat, took some stops along the way with different dips in Oracle, Sorcerer, and Bard, and finally ended (most recently) in the current state as a Chosen One. I don't have quite the affinity for straight-up multiclassing that you do, though I have built a few multiclass characters to achieve specific aims.
The only thing that I would say is that if we're trying to aim for better representation of the Sandpoint pantheon, then the currently unrepresented gods are Erastil and Sarenrae. Do any of your concepts hew any closer to either of those? I don't personally see monk as vibing particularly well with Erastil, but pretty well with Sarenrae.
I guess I'm also trying to figure out (for #4) what sorcerer adds to monk. I can see the other way, that a monk dip allows for Wisdom to AC to make the sorcerer less defenseless, but I'm not sure what else you're gaining for the monk with one or two sorcerer levels.
Either way, I do agree that some additional ranged possibilities are a great idea.
Thanks for the feedback, Poly. #4 was principally an option if Lia wasn't comfortable with another arcane caster anywhere near her level. That said, there are some first and second level spells that can really help a monk out... Looking at you, Mage Armor.
I can always find a plausible way to connect a backstory/deity to a build. If I go with ZAM / X (which seems likely given the preferences so far) then I will very likely go with Erastil... Ol' Deadeye himself - favoring a longbow - seems like a reasonable fit for an Archer (monk or no). In either case, I'm strongly favoring the Good Domain - which is in the sphere for either deity and I don't believe any character has taken it.
@Poly: Originally all the characters did have long standing associations with Sandpoint, we even spent some time figuring out how long everyone has been at the cathedral for setting up relationships. At the start, Lia was 16 and had been there 4 years. Ro was 18 and had been there 6 years. Karmid was 17 and had been there 17 years. Drasven was the outlier, middle aged and arrived in Sandpoint with no prior affiliation with the cathedral.
Drasven came in to the game a bit later, and most all of the other characters were new arrivals rather than old residents.
There are plenty of ways to work it.
If your character is quite young, maybe they've been at the cathedral the whole time and are only now old enough to put on those big boy adventuring britches.
If your character is older, maybe they were away visiting family, or on a pilgrimage or something like that.
If your character isn't from the area, maybe they were drawn to the cathedral lately through some means. With a Chosen One Paladin, maybe your familiar told your character she must go there.
Never played a Chosen One (or any Paladin for that matter) before, but Chosen One seems really fun. It reminds me of the old Sword in the Stone movie by Disney. I loved that movie a as a kid.
To be clear, I also wouldn't mind if the new guys are sent due to the severity of the mission.
As in, Father Zantus may have done some more research and requested assistance from someone more powerful.
Then they could arrive from there and "bring" some gear for us to use :D
(As in, rather than force them do use WBL of us, maybe get us all to WBL for Level 6 characters or so :) )
@Chosen One/Ro: Aye, and a very flavorful archetype, as well. In my opinion one of the best ways to play a Pally that is not quite "conforming" to the stereotype as they got thrown into it and are learning the ropes, still. If such is wanted, of course :)
(You do you, Poly, just stating one of my favorite things about it)
Yes! Show up with a Blinkback Belt and Headband of Alluring Charisma for Ro!
Edit: Please and thank you.
LOL. Happy to bring shiny gear! er... if the GM allows. :)
So, I've almost completed my build... just fine-tuning at this point and throwing in some none-magical placeholder gear to get a feel for his capabilities. I've gone with ZAM 4 / Sorc 3 - Empyreal bloodline. Overall, his attacks and saves appear to be solid but not crazy high compared to the rest of the team.
I've never been a min/maxer but I do like to make efficient characters. I'll be dropping his avatar in here as soon as I have him all squared away. Thanks very much for all the help in narrowing the field!
Come'on, lucky dice...
Score!
Here is my ZAM/Sorc...
... And his pal.
On to crafting their background.
Ro, Karmid, likely-offline-GM, and Poly... any additional thoughts or votes?
I vote anything Rogue is good: We need a dedicated back-stabber/trap-finder I feel. A Rogue Monk or Rogue Archer sounds pretty cool to me too.
so... we're still broke.
I mean, Issengrim could take a vow of poverty.
I kid.
Also, where was the guidance on HP rolls? Are we rolling for all levels and rerolling 1s and 2s, rerolling anything below half? I couldn't find anything.
Thus spake the...
Hit points at new level: Reroll all 1s and 2s
So full HP at 1st then roll HP for the other levels and reroll the sad dice. :)
Noodling an alternate build based on Karmid's comment. Since ranged attacks are still an open need, I'm going with ZAM/Rogue. He won't be as deadly as a straight monk/rogue but he will fill the 'ranged' niche and still be a bit of a nasty backstabber. Also, having looked at Ro's build... she's handling the rogue skills admirably.
My plans for Ro's advancement are a little muddled I suppose, and her build is a bit janky, a very early character for me before I knew too much about how to do things.
She actually started out as an Arcane Duelist if I remember correctly, but I rebuilt to Archaeologist when we lost our Rogue character and needed someone to cover that stuff. I'm not displeased with Ro's build, but if I were starting the campaign now I'd probably make her a Swashbuckler or go with a Bard archetype that doesn't lose Inspire Courage.
Anyway, I do understand better the limits of a Bard in combat better now, and I expect her ability to contribute damage will fade as we go into double digit levels. I have a few things I can pick up yet that will help, but the options to keep successful attacks and decent damage going are limited, and there aren't any options for big bursts of damage.
The good news is she has CHA based attack and damage so I don't have to choose between combat and boosting spell DC. If she remains more viable in combat than I expect, she can still enter combat in a support role. If what I expect happens, I'll focus more on spell casting and she'll become more akin to an Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue. Spells for buffing, and possibly more offensive spellcasting to disrupt opponents given the spell list's focus on enchantments. With solid UMD and a wand of Ill Omen or Sure Casting Ro might be able to play with the big kids longer than Bards typically do.
I'm not too concerned with the Rogue stuff. It doesn't come up all that often from what I've seen, and it's not a big part of Ro's persona. I retrofitted a piece of backstory about her having a part-time job working for the locksmith in Sandpoint to make some pocket money, but nothing more. Mostly I play up the very lucky part of her archetype rather than the Rogue parts. I'm happy to continue taking care of locks and traps, Ro does have everything a Rogue does to do it except disable device in class, but it's not a thing I hold dear.
O.o
Issengrim
Male human (Varisian) monk (zen archer) 4/unchained rogue 3
LG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +6; Senses low-light vision; Perception +14
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Defense
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AC 20, touch 20, flat-footed 15 (+4 Dex, +1 dodge, +1 monk, +4 Wis)
HP 56 (7d8+7)
Fort +5, Ref +11, Will +9; +2 trait bonus vs. charm and compulsion
Defensive Abilities danger sense +1, evasion
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Offense
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Speed 40 ft.
Melee unarmed strike +9 (1d8+4)
Ranged or
. . mwk composite longbow flurry of blows +10/+10/+5 (1d8+2/×3) or
. . mwk composite longbow +11 (1d8+2/×3)
Special Attacks flurry of blows, perfect strike 4/day, sneak attack (unchained) +2d6, zen archery
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Statistics
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Str 14, Dex 18, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 18, Cha 10
BAB +5; CMB +7; CMD 27
Feats
Deadly Aim, Dodge, Eclectic[APG], Fast Learner[ARG], Improved Unarmed Strike, Perfect Strike[APG], Piranha Strike, Point Blank Master[APG], Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (longbow)
Traits birthmark, blood of dragons, reactionary
Skills
Acrobatics +14 (+18 to jump)
Appraise +5
Bluff +5
Climb +12
Craft (bows) +6
Diplomacy +4
Disable Device +17
Escape Artist +8
Handle Animal +1
Intimidate +4
Knowledge (dungeoneering) +5
Knowledge (geography) +5
Knowledge (history) +5
Knowledge (local) +11
Knowledge (religion) +5
Linguistics +5
Perception +14
Profession (Guide) +10
Ride +8
Sense Motive +10
Spellcraft +2
Stealth +14
Survival +10
Swim +6
Use Magic Device +4
Languages Common, Shoanti, Thassilonian, Varisian
SQ fast movement, ki archery, ki pool (6 points, magic), rogue talent (trap spotter), slow fall 20 ft., trapfinding +1
Gear mwk composite longbow (+2 Str), backpack, bedroll, belt pouch, bowyer tools, flint and steel, hemp rope (50 ft.), masterwork thieves' tools, mess kit[UE], pot, spell component pouch, torch (10), trail rations (5), waterskin, wooden holy symbol of Erastil
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Special Abilities
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Danger Sense +1 (Ex) +1 bonus on reflex saves and AC against traps.
Deadly Aim -2/+4 Trade a penalty to ranged attacks for a bonus to ranged damage.
Evasion (Ex) If succeed on Reflex save for half dam, take none instead.
Fast Movement (+10 ft.) The Monk adds 10 or more feet to his base speed.
Flurry of Blows +4/+4/-1 (Ex) As full-rd action, higher BAB and combo unarmed/monk wep as if two-weapon fighting.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Ki Archery (Su) 1 Ki point: +50' range increment for bows.
Ki Pool (6/day) (Su) You have a ki pool equal to 1/2 your monk level + your Wisdom modifier.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Perfect Strike (2d20, 4/day) With certain weapons, roll twice, higher is attack, lower is confirmation roll.
Piranha Strike -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage with light weapons.
Point-Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Precise Shot You don't get -4 to hit when shooting or throwing into melee.
Slow Fall 20 ft. (Ex) Treat a fall as shorter than normal if within arm's reach of a wall.
Sneak Attack (Unchained) +2d6 Attacks deal extra dam if flank foe or if foe is flat-footed.
Trap Spotter (Ex) Whenever you come within 10' of a trap, the GM secretly rolls for you to find it.
Trapfinding +1 Gain a bonus to find or disable traps, including magical ones.
Zen Archery (Su) Use WIS instead of DEX for ranged attacks with a bow.
There were a couple surprises here for me. With the tiny bump in BAB caused by switching Sorcerer for Rogue, my Flurry goes up to 3 shots as my base. So the archery skill is even more solid from the outset. And by freeing up a feat slot for Piranha Strike, even his can't-flurry punch is respectable particularly when you toss on 2d6 Sneak Attack if they have someone flanked.
On the whole, I think both versions have merit and I could play either one happily. I may just have to leave this to a team vote to decide.
I would say play the version of Issengrim that you'd prefer to play.
It seems Karmid and I disagree on the value of sneak attack. I don't think it's worth the trouble. I have a Slayer in another game and I've used it maybe 2 or 3 times since getting it. Granted, my Slayer is a front-liner and is too busy to spend time trying to set it up, but the time used up trying to position for it is attacks not made, which counts against the bit of extra damage one would get for trying. It's a nice little bonus when it happens.
I've only played in one game that had a Rogue for any length of time, and they never made a sneak attack. I don't think Pathfinder combat lends itself to movement during combat in ways that make sneak attacks reliable enough to count on. True surprise attacks almost never happen.
Maybe there are games where these things aren't true, but I have't seen them.