If you're wondering who the strange person friending you on Facebook is, it would be me. Looking up Taisper's band (from another thread), I added him. Not wanting to leave anyone out, I found the rest of you (except Verik) and added you as well.
If you're wondering who the strange person friending you on Facebook is, it would be me. Looking up Taisper's band (from another thread), I added him. Not wanting to leave anyone out, I found the rest of you (except Verik) and added you as well.
Word up! Accepted, natch. :-) If anyone else feels like finding me on FB my username is downrightamazed. Big surprise I know. :-p
Hmm, I hope for drama between Taisper and Jemini!
Hmm, what is the particular relationship between each pairing? I'd actually like to hear it from y'all rather than put my own thoughts in. Here are the combinations.
Berrin-Jemini:
Berrin-Taisper:
Berrin-Tandlara:
Berrin-Verik:
Berrin-Zander:
Jemini-Taisper:
Jemini-Tandlara:
Jemini-Verik:
Jemini-Zander:
Taisper-Tandlara:
Taisper-Verik:
Taisper-Zander:
Tandlara-Verik:
Tandlara-Zander:
Verik-Zander:
Berrin-Jemini: I don't think he has a ton of regard for her. Based on his time in the meritocratic trenches of mercenary work, he believes that leadership and respect are earned rather than born into. She probably feels that he is uncouth and thinks of him as more of a cohort than compatriot, while he feels like he is babysitting a noble on safari.
Berrin-Taisper: Perhaps Berrin is understanding of and thankful for Taisper's occasional ruthlessness, but I don't think Berrin is remarkably fond of him personally.
Berrin-Tandlara: Like his interactions with a few of the others, he probably sees her as a pie-in-the-sky idealist with no idea the way the world actually works, while she sadly thinks that he will one day also discover how little he actually knows.
Berrin-Verik: I think that the two of them respect the other because of what each lacks. Berrin respects the wisdom and casting ability of Verik, while Verik envies Berrin's skill with weapons. I don't think either of them really consciously realize this, though. Most of this is blinded by Berrin thinking that Verik doesn't understand how things work outside of the city.
Berrin-Zander: Zander probably appreciates how blase Berrin treats his injuries, a result of Berrin's time in the rough-and-tumble lifestyle.
Jemini-Taisper: A bit like Jemini and Verik, she likes to play on his naivety. I think that he really looks up to her, though.
Jemini-Tandlara: As the only women in the expedition, the two of them are naturally drawn together in solidarity. Jemini makes the effort to overcome Tandlara's inherent strangeness. Her kindness to Riddleskin is indicative of the effort that she puts forth.
Jemini-Verik: At first glance, you might think that Verik doesn't like Jemini because of her constant teasing about how strait-laced he is, as well as her insistence that she is the leader. However, I think his attraction to the 20 CHA paladin outweighs this, something he wouldn't want to admit to anyone. The grind between his feelings and his logical adherence to law must be difficult to bear at times. He occasionally lashes out (such as when he yelled at her to not get so banged up in battle) as a result.
Jemini-Zander: One of the more interesting pairings, their conflicting opinions about the will of the people vs. the question of parentage (especially considering his actual birthright) makes them quite contentious at times.
Taisper-Tandlara: I think she pities him and the way he sees the world in black/white morality. He just wants to hear more about her elven outlook, something he is genuinely curious about.
Taisper-Verik: Being cousins, their bond is the strongest in the group. However, I think Verik has some reservations about Taisper that run far deeper than he lets on or wants to admit.
Taisper-Zander: These two sure are both broken in their own way, but neither seems to truly recognize this. On a subconscious level, this may be why Taisper is drawn to Zander's archery tutelage,
Tandlara-Verik: I'm not sure. I don't remember many interactions between them. Verik certainly doesn't notice Tandlara the way he notices Jemini, but I doubt Tandlara particularly cares about that.
Tandlara-Zander: I think that Zander really understands Tandlara in a way that the others can't. She understands him deeper than the others, but his scars make his issues more obvious.
Verik-Zander: Other than a desire to see Zander healed, Verik seems to shy away from him. This is possibly the result of Verik being sad that he can't do it, something that Zander might mirror.
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Wow, that was brutal, and also a rather perfect transition, because Verik both found it repellent and thinks it made things easier - he might well have had trouble convincing himself the old man did not deserve to die, though he would have actively tried to.
Relationship wise I think you are pretty much dead on save for...
Verik-Tandlara: They have had some philosophical conversations, but often finds themselves at odds. They are both compassionate, but Verik's compassion is tempered by his lawful nature - he was distressed by the idea of brutal traps, but though he greatly disliked them if they were legal he would reluctantly not have interfered with them, etc. Her elven nature, and strangeness make Verik think of her - and all elves really - as a bit of a relic a magical sad being whose race simply cannot adapt to the modernizing world.
Verik-Zander: Verik is a very guilty person and his eyes are constantly drawn in horrified fascination to Zander's burns, only in part because of a desire to heal them. Though Zander has never seemed uncomfortable with his glances it eats Verik up with guilt.
Accepted, but I think you'll find everything on there writen in a strange language ;)
+1 on the relationships from Berrin's point of view but I'd like to add;
Berrin-Taisper: Berrin believes Taisper has a lot of growing up to do, FAST. Somthing is missing in the young man and Berrin can't put his finger on it, but he knows he doesn't like it.
Berrin-Verik: Berrin sees Verik as a representative of a world he has never know exept as an outsider looking in. Beeing near him wakes up questions in Berrin and he is drawn to the priests wisdom. Verik is actually the first actual cleric Berrin has had much interactions with.
Berrin-Tandlara: Tandlara is just plain alien to Berrin. Intruiging and foreign but her strangeness puts Berrin on the defencive as he can't quite place her.
Berrin-Zander: Berrin views Zander as a man, plain and simple. Someone willing to do what needs to be done without moaning. His scars are just there, Berrin can't do anything about them but he's not going to hide from them.
Berrin-Jemini: Berrin actually likes her teasing. Initial feelings for her were not to many, or fond, but he is growing to like her more.
Jemini-Berrin: Jemini considers Berrin plain, but dependable. He's there in all the right ways and his good natured demeanour endear him. She also secretly enjoys his argument with Verik.
Jemini-Taisper: Jemini initially appreciated Taisper's misplaced zeal that was perfectly masked by his easy-going nature. Now she's utterly devastated at his complete lack of appreciation of life. She recognizes no warmth in his smile and sees his spirits about him as confused but calculating.
Jemini-Tandlara: Jemini likes Tandlara, in spite feeling some measure of alienation towards her - the differences go beyond mere culture but touch on underlying understanding of reality. She values Tandlara's insights and intellect as she has not yet found them unwarranted or misplaced. She utterly adores Riddleskin.
Jemini-Verik: Jemini likes Verik, he's brash and stern like some of the more impressionable instructors she's had during her youth. She doesn't agree with some of his views but is open-minded about it. She's perplexed by his lack of understanding and appreciation of sex - but other than nudging and teasing a little she's not overly concerned. She's now a bit apprehensive about the exact nature of the relationship between Verik and Taisper.
Jemini-Zander: Zander stirs memories in Jemini that she cannot place. Like a shadow of a memory. She feels sorry for his suffering and likes that he's warming up in presence and trust to the group as a whole. Though she doesn't go out of her way to change the personal coldness she experiences from Zander which she suspects is related to Verik's dislike of her noble heritage.
@DM Barcas: it's worded a bit awkwardly, so I thought I'd ask. The monk archetype "weapon master" - do you allow the weapon choice to be "unarmed strikes"; or must it be a monk weapon in the physical sense? I ask as the brass knuckles essentially are the same as allowing unarmed strikes, but its not quite the same.
Make the question on the "weapon adept" monk archetype. And the perfect strike feat just adds to the confusion, as it lists a very specific subset of monk weapons.
I'm interested in either a pure unarmed (not brass knuckled) or quarterstaff weapon adept for Carrion Crown.
Phew conflict is heating up indeed! Here's my take on the relations:
Zander-Berrin: Zander likes Berrin and though he felt a little strange at first with Berrin's blase outlook on his injuries, he's come to be comfortable with it and feels comfortable around him. Zander respects Berrin in a lot of the same way as Berrin respects Zander as "willing to do what needs to be done" and as someone who is capable of doing it, respecting his skill in combat.
Zander-Jemini: Zander got a bad first impression of Jemini as a noble who was trying to run the show and that has stuck around for the most part, but he accepts that she is someone he has to work with and has been trying to give her a chance to prove herself to him, and she has somewhat, but he still doesn't feel very close to her.
Zander-Taisper: Zander likes Taisper and sees the man's willingness to kill more as doing what needs to be done than quite what it actually is for Taisper. He's pretty taken in by Taisper's friendliness as he's never really had anyone be so nice to him before and trusts the inquisitor's judgement a little more than he maybe should as a result of his budding friendship. Regardless, Zander is a man who stands by his friends pretty staunchly and the combination of this with Zander's generally grim outlook on things makes his acceptance of the killings that much easier.
Zander-Tandlara: Zander likes Tandlara. He feels a strange connection to her that he's felt since they shared their moment back at Oleg's and feels completely comfortable around her in a way he's not really even aware of. He's also quite protective over here (as shown versus Orlivanch) and takes any attacks on her pretty super seriously. I do think that his relationship with her is a little naive, like the high school kid with the crush on his teacher, given his miniscule life experience compared to hers, but he doesn't really have any expectations for a romantic relationship between them as he doesn't really think a woman could have that kind of feelings for him.
Zander-Verik: Zander likes Verik, but doesn't feel very close to him. He hasn't really had much of a chance to connect with the cleric, but they don't really have a lot of common ground so I'm not sure how that will turn out. He was a little taken aback by Verik's requests to try to heal him, but he could see that he was trying to help and honestly he was pretty intrigued by the idea.
Also for reference it really isn't possible to do nonlethal damage with a ranged weapon. Zander is right, if he shoots something, he's shooting to kill.
Sure. There are theoretically blunt arrows - but Zander didn't really have an option. There is a difference with shooting to kill, and shooting to execute though.
Technically you can't coup de grace with a ranged weapon either, but I get your point. That said though, Zander pretty much looks at his weapon with an attitude he isn't going to use it if he doesn't mean to kill whatever he's shooting at. That's not to say he won't accept an enemy's surrender, but with a x3 critical modifier he knows that his shots are potentially lethal.
Jemini: I think the intent of Weapon Adept is to use one of the specific monk weapons (though the inclusion of brass knuckles makes it so that you can basically have it work unarmed.)
Man, brass knuckles are the best thing to ever happen to a monk. With the amount of attacks they have, being able to put Holy or other damage enchantments on their weapon boost their damage amazingly.
Jemini: I think the intent of Weapon Adept is to use one of the specific monk weapons (though the inclusion of brass knuckles makes it so that you can basically have it work unarmed.)
Well, it's a bit more muddled up. I see (and can agree with) arguments that only the monk weapons specifically listed for the Perfect Strike feat apply. This excludes for example the brass knuckles and the temple sword. I think this might be appropriate for balance reasons.
I'll ponder it a bit more - but I think I might build a drunken master weapon adept (quarterstaff) dwarven monk :)
Incidentally, how do you rule oversized weapons? In case I want to use a large quarterstaff (affectionately labeled monkey king bar).
According to the SRD, you wouldn't be able to wield it because it would increase a category from two-handed. If it were one-handed increasing to two-handed, you'd take a -2 penalty.
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Its pretty clear RAW that you simply cannot wield a two handed large weapon without magical aide. This is because a large weapon goes up one category, from light to one handed, from one handed to two handed, and if it goes beyond those categories it in unusable.
Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can't make optimum use of a weapon that isn't properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn't proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.
The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon's designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can't wield the weapon at all.
However as a DM I would suggest simply making it an exotic weapon, effectively a large staff as an exotic weapon - that way you also avoid the -2 penalty. 1d8/1d8 x3 would be my suggestion, making it basically a reflavored Orc double axe.
I just realized a way to make it possible to do what I have in mind. The drunken monk can rub "special" booze onto his quarterstaff (potion of shillelagh) to transform it into the mighty monkey king bar! Fantastic :D
This is getting to an "interesting" head. But I think that's how Jemini would act in the situation.
Wow. This is getting serious. Taispar is doing a great job of scary!
I hope this doesn't come to blows before we even face the Stag Lord!
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Wow, Taisper is going off a bit earlier than I had imagined. Cool, but I can see this escalating problematically, honestly I would not want to be in a party with Taisper after that and I consider myself a great deal less concerned with morality than Verik - I peg me as Chaotic Good.
Jemini: Problem with that is that it takes a standard action, which to me is a killer. Maybe either agree a custom item with DM Barcas? A staff that can be activated as a swift action would be great.
Verik: I'm fine with a standard action - buff time is part of the game. In fact the character is already planning to use potions of mage armor until it is sensible to buy bracers of armor +3 or better. This costs some start-up time; but I can live with that. I like the character concept in my head - and I suspect it will be sufficiently useful in combat to not be a burden.
Though I will probably take the trait that lets him drink potions as a move action. Just makes sense for a habitual drunk to be able to quaff like nobodies business.
When's the player's guide coming out?! Does Paizo not understand that I have *neeeeeds*?
Guys! I am really not comfortable in Taisper's head right now, holy crap! :-( Also, holy mackerel am I sick of arguing in character. :-/
I didn't want this to get here this early either, but Taisper REALLY doesn't understand what Verik and Jemini are thinking, and then Verik played the family card, which was too much for this little time bomb of a character to handle.
I'm freestyling the Inquisition Branch stuff based on the class description. Apologies if it goes too far, I'll reign it in a bit if the group feels I'm taking too many liberties. :-)
Nah - I completely believe the Abadarian inquisition, seems fine. And that Taisper is a very very special boy.
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I don't think the Abadarian Inquisition fits very well myself. But that's probably because of how Taisper is describing it, which is like looking at someone in a funhouse mirror and saying he's a fatty! Taisper's brain might have filtered something more distinctly Abadarian into something that fits him, maybe his instructor was also a bit similar.
Thing with the inquistition is; As long as Taisper retains his divine abilities he's in the right. He's not wrong untill Adbar says he's wrong I think...
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Well not falling out with Abadar and being in the right are not the same thing. Part of this comes from the fact that Verik - who is LG - not having seen the rulebooks ;) thinks of Abadar as lawful good. Verik follows Abadar because he thinks Abadar had the right idea, if Abadar commanded him to kill a baby - even were he utterly convinced it was the true Abadar and his god really wanted him to do it - he would refuse.
Things are not good because Abadar says they are, Abadar is good because he recognizes and encourages things that are good - to Verik.
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Another reason the Inquisition works is that Abadar's Church is not a contiguous body, each city has a seperate hierarchy. So it is perfectly possible that only some cities have Inqusitions. Makes sense that Verik does not know of it because there is not one in Absalom.
Berrin: Aside from those theories being a little OOC, Inquisitors by RAW only loose their powers if they "slip into corruption", or their alignment changes to more than one step away from their deities. Taisper can become Lawful Evil and still retain his powers so long as he maintains his integrity by my reading *shudder*.
Well, what do we know of the inquisition as far as Taisper has described it?
- They act on own authority, not subject to the main church body
- They are the judiciary and executive arm of the law at the same time
- They have a need for special kids (this bit is leaning towards Asmodean inquisition)
Well, what do we know of the inquisition as far as Taisper has described it?
- They act on own authority, not subject to the main church body
- They are the judiciary and executive arm of the law at the same time
- They have a need for special kids (this bit is leaning towards Asmodean inquisition)
Right on. I'm also assuming that any Inquisition is going to every bit as corrupt -- if not more -- as its "main branch" but of course they'll never tell the orphans and foster kids and whatnot that they're brainwashing. I see this as a possible route of redemption for Taisper; if he sees the inevitable corruption in the Inquisition Branch, he'd be crushed, but would then seek to weed out transgressors there, too, and would definitely be driven to seek forgiveness for sins committed in the name of what he would realize were lies all along.
Unfortunately this is not particularly likely to happen, I realize.
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Its the very fact that they act above and beyond the law that makes them not fit with Abadar for me. Abadar is all about following the law, by my readings, skipping over bureaucraqcy and the minutae of the law seems alien to the Abadarian ethos.
But I can see them having an agency trained to deal with things that are essentially unlawful by default - like demons, or proteans.
Verik is really wishing he had commune,
"Abadar was what Taisper did wrong."
"Ha in your face!"
Ahahaaaaaaaa! THAT would be hilarious. sadly, he still wouldn't believe you. :-/
It's a little like Judge Dredd. Taisper feels that he has the ability to quickly run through the law and render a verdict ASAP.
You guys have fun figuring it out - I'm off to bed; and tomorrow I'm up early for a games' day over at a friend's place.
Maybe I'm just not that moral of a person, but is what Taisper did really that bad? I mean, sure he may have taken it a step too far by smashing in his head when he was already dying, but we were planning to kill the guy anyway since he attacked us and all. He clearly wasn't planning to surrender and he was clearly a big jerk setting traps recklessly throughout the woods. Seems to me we're better off now that he's dead.
I can see the angle that we were trespassing on his property and he had the right to defend himself, but he clearly overstepped the general bounds of home defense by setting crazy traps that kill random passerbys and shooting at anyone who comes up to his cabin without provocation.
In modern mores, it would definitely count as murder because he did not present the threat of deadly force at the time. As a professional taker-of-prisoners, I have to be very mindful that a situation can change from deadly force being 100% acceptable to any force being unacceptable in just a heartbeat.
In Golarion, it's a bit more gray.
Yeah, I'm generally speaking from a Golarion point of view as I don't think a situation like this could really come up in real life.
Hypothetically speaking though, in real life there also isn't magical healing around so if a bunch of adventurers in an uncivilized land encountered a trap-laying madman and got into a firefight with him, if he got shot up and was lying on the ground bleeding, he'd pretty much be written off as dead.
This is certainly going to make Taisper feel pretty justified.
Psyyyyychoooooo!
Looks like Berrin took care of the stripping the corpse so you're fine there.
Not that Zander will mention it, byut we should probably set up some sort of actual system for dealing with enemies once we finish with them. With Jemini and Verik wanting to heal everyone and Taisper wanting to end them quickly, we should probably find some sort of middle ground. Zander isn't the type to propose a system for working this out in game, but it probably wouldn't hurt for us to all agree on something like that lest Verik and Taisper kill each other.
This is certainly going to make Taisper feel pretty justified.
Psyyyyychoooooo!
Oh hell yes. I believe the phrase "neener neener" applies here. :-p I'll admit, though, part of me thinks it would be funny if no one told him.
Don't really see the justification. Whether he *ultimately* would be executed is something entirely different.
Taisper won't see it that way.
My take on how Taisper will probably see this is that this guy clearly deserved to die, he didn't have any evidence of this when he killed him, but he knew it. Now that it's been proven to him, he'll see it as proof that his knowledge of this man's deservedness of death is due to foresight given to him by his god. And really, at this point maybe it was? He honestly hasn't killed anyone yet who hasn't deserved it so for all we know his actions could be entirely justified and guided by the hand of Abadar.
My g~&~$@ned internet is a wreck. I'm very very sorry aboput the longish absences. I should be able to get sorted out on monday, and I'm trying my best to keep regularly on. Sorry again.