I got up fluff for Felicity. I'll give it another edit before recruitment closes, but it probably won't change much.
OK, Flinnfurious. First, thanks for answering all my questions. Crunch is now done for Grenadil Hasbrek and ready for your review (as is a physical description and image reference). Backstory is still in progress, but due to his complexity I'd love to get the crunch reviewed on the sooner side. Please let me know if you see any errors, or have any questions...I've certainly never built a gestalt monster before. ;-)
A few more notes and Qs on my side:
1. HP --
6- Whatever hp the elemental has is what you start with. Class hit points can be added onto that, but you would only get half.
I'm not 100% sure I understand but lets work through an example: I started with the Gravity Elemental's 136 HP, and added 11 (1d8=5+5 con +1 fcb) for the one level beyond the elemental template. Are you saying I could also add +half of what his Rogue HP would be for levels 1-9?
1a. If I took +1 HP as my Rogue FCB for my first nine levels, would that add HP for those levels? Or does it not, since the elemental HP are still higher than the Rogue HP for those levels?2. INT -- I noticed you suggested that constructs take a 10 INT. The Gravity Elemental template has only a 6 INT. Do I keep that, or do I bump it up to 10?
Thanks again!
Made some small adjustments to the Crimson Blade in light of changes and clarifications.
I agree with Jelani in that I highly advise against running two games with pvp. Two games without it is fine with another GM. I just dont't want the GM to burn out before things actually get going as happens all too often in such over the top games.
No, you don't need to write it twice, though you do need separate spell lists[/QUOTE="Flinnfurious"]
Do you mean for spells prepared? Currently I have my spellbook listed in this profile with wizard/magus only spells labelled as such (still have to go through a few more wizard spells though). Is that acceptable?
I was going to say I needed to buy a few more scrolls, but wow! Now I have another 80000 to spend :P I'll get to that over the next few days.
I'll update my characters with the extra 80000 soon.
Thought I'd make a post to highlight what Felicity would bring to a group. I'm breaking it down by arbitrary categories rated out of 5 *s. Obviously this is my opinion.
Melee *****:She's competent in melee. When hasted and burning Ki (which she'll almost always do) she'll get six attacks per round, with an average damage per hit of 21 and a 30% chance to crit. She will also be intimidating to demoralize with every hit (at +19 intimidate). She also has the option of tripping or grappling. So in melee she's bringing lots of damage, some debuff, and optional crowd control.
Ranged *:Not a whole lot going for her here. She can flurry shuriken at up close targets for decent damage.
Defense *****:She's got strong defenses all around with a high AC, high saves, DR 10/chaotic and SR. Oh, and the ability to go incorporeal at will.
Skills *****:She's got a +15 or better in every skill that regularly gets used in Pathfinder play. She can do face stuff, sneak and do traps/locks (except magical traps), and has all the knowledges.
Healing ***:She can pump out 8d6+(3d8+3) healing per day, plus wands and stabilizing people under 0 HP domain power stuff. At our level not a great healer by any means, but enough to keep people alive and make a difference.
Spells/SLAs ***:Not great here, but also not shabby. Haste, and hold monster will be frequently useful. Lightning bolt will help supplement her lack of ranged ability.
Mobility ****:She can shift forms to fly if needed, but the flight is slow, not super maneuverable and loses her melee attack. She can jump 40-80 ft. Base land speed is 60' and can go incorporeal if needed to pass barriers. Not perfect, but not bad either.
I'd be interested to see how other people would rate their characters in these categories.
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The extra money is only for powerless in the corruption campaign. Not for the current campaign. Specifically because they don't get in game bonuses later.
That's how I read it, anyway.
Alright, time to figure out Ránëwén skills since I miscalculated them.
The extra money is only for powerless in the corruption campaign. Not for the current campaign. Specifically because they don't get in game bonuses later.
That's how I read it, anyway.
I believe your right! Thanks for pointing that out, glad I didn't start spending :P
So, I'm thinking of throwing in with a blink dog ranger/inquisitor. Still awaiting an answer, can I add a template to my monster in exchange for a level?
Let's see how Kaarya fares...
Melee ****: Kaarya's descent at melee, but takes time to get there. Her standard damage is 1d6+7 with a +15 to hit. Activating Battle Dance (+4 to hit and damage) Smite Evil (+5 to hit, +6 to damage) Power Attack (+4 to damage, -2 to hit) and Arcane Strike (+3 damage) give me a total of 22 to hit and 1d6+22 damage, which is doubled on a crit (15+). So not awful, but not awesome either.
Ranged ****: Weird Words is pretty deadly, but takes rounds of Performance to use.
Defense ****: 25 AC at level ten isn't great, but good saves, damage reduction and spell resitance all help survivability.
Skills *****: Bard.
Healing ****: Not too bad. Got all the healing spells lying around, so Kaarya can certainly aid a normal healer.
Spells/SLAs ****: The Half-Celestial Template comes with some neat tricks.
Mobility ****: Can fly at will up to 60ft, but otherwise nothing too special.
Jelani/Felicity, good idea! I'm going to keep the rough format but customize the catagories.
Grenadil (like most of these characters, I imagine) has pretty broad flexibility but shines most as a speedster/skirmisher/crowd-controller/defender.
Mobility & Skirmishing *****
- 100' flight with perfect maneuverability. Flight is his default mode of movement.
- With +17 Perception, +17 Initiative (& always rolling Initiative 2x and taking the higher roll) he'll often get the jump on his foes. (-2 to init and per when not in an urban environment).
- As a rogue (scout) with Fly-by Attack & Mobility, he can deal 1d6+18 (crit 5-20/×2) +5d6 sneak attack damage anywhere along the path of his movement.
Crowd control *****
- He can reverse gravity in a 30' radius around him. Combining this with his flight, he can effect a fairly flexible area up to 160' by 60' by flying 30' off the ground. The end result will be anyone who can't fly falling up and then back down 60' (taking 6d6 falling damage and possibly ending prone).
- Note that he can do the above as a double move to effect a 260' by 60' area...or keep it a single move and add in his (1d6+18+5d6) melee attack anywhere along the way.
- Alternately, using combat patrol, he can set up a 15' radius circle wherein he can take up to 12 AoO/turn, provided it takes < 100' of movement to make them. Any of those attacks which involve moving at least 10' add 5d6 sneak attack damage.
- As another alternative, he can take a full round action to turn up gravity such that all within a 30' radius can't move at all unless they beat a DC 24 Fort save.
Defense *****
- AC 30 + automatically deflect the first melee hit each turn...and get a free attack back against the attacker (due to crane wing & reposte)
- DR 10/-, great immunities (including typical elemental immunity to crits, flanking, stun, poison, and paralysis, plus -- especially good for a speedster -- immunity to all missile attacks), and good saves (Fort +11, Ref +21 (+3 bonus vs. traps), Will +12)
Trapfinding & Stealth ***** +19 to find and +31 to disable traps. +24 to stealth (+2 more in urban environments).
Spells/SLAs/Misc tricks *** In addition to the tricks mentioned above, his gravity field also yields at-will Telekinesis (including throwing someone/thing (that weighs < 250 lbs) up to 100'). Otherwise he doesn't have much to offer, other than some L1 Oracle spells.
Other Skills ** I've highlighted perception, trap disabling, and stealth above. His other high skills are Acrobatics, Escape Artist, Slight of Hand, UMD. He won't ever be the knowledge guy or the party face though.
Healing ** not a primary healer but can cast CLW 3x/day and has a wand of CLW to back it up.
Ranged attacks ** Nothing special. He's got a 1d8+6 composite longbow...but mostly will just charge any foe within 200' in any direction.
I've labelled all the spells in my spellbook that are for wizard-slots only! The few magus-only spells are labelled as well.
one more question: If I choose dragon as Favoured enemy, and I meet a humanoid with dragon powers, am I eligible for the bonus? If I have humanoid as favoured enemy, will I still get my Favoured enemy bonus?
Hey Fnord72, thanks for the review of Grenadril. Answers below.
Bonus feats: Style Master is a ninja trick but per UC rogue can choose ninja tricks that they otherwise qualify for.
Improved unarmed strike: that's actually a question I wanted to ask Flinnfurious. Natural attacks (which I have) give the benefits of Improved Unarmed Strike. My bias is that having natural attacks should be an assumed equivalent qualification, but it's a gray area and definitely needs DM input.
Dodge: thanks, I forgot to list that.
Bow: yep it's paid for. I'll list that too.
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yeah switching to scholar
origin story
Wilros was up late researching as he was wont to do when the event happened, his shelves were alight, one of them falling on top of him, he was trapped and with the fire raging around him while he was pinned he was incapable of using any of his magic to escape, he fervently prayed to iori for strength to let him up out from under the bookshelf
just as he was about to give up hope the fire stopped burning, started feeling almost good, he felt power, power like he'd barely heard of coursing through his veins he easily throws off the book shelf and stands there for a moment in shock at the strength, soon he goes about putting out the fire as best he can
later he learned he gained supernatural powers over fire, that he was hardier and that despite the slight limp he had always had he could move faster than anyone he knew who wasn't using magic, he found he could make wings out of fire, even his magic grew, for once he had power
question is...
what should he do with it
perhaps this is the same fire as bobson's witchfire caused
any thoughts
Hehe! (^_^)
Just realized this would be a perfect place for Xane.
Here's the level one character.
More levels and "Smushing for GREAT JUSTICE!" to come!
Happy new year to every one.
fnord, those make it seem...much less gray. Alas! Thanks for sharing the links.
I'll make some changes.
does a powerless half elf get favored bonus for each class each level. IE: +2hp a level or +2SP or +1/+1. Thanks.
@ashe in gestalt's favored class is once per level.
But vanilla half-elves get 2 favoured classes. What if one is one side of the gestalt, and the other is the other side?
I know of at least 1 GM who has ruled that half-Elves (and only half-elves) can get it for both gestalt classes. The question is, does Flinnfurious think that?
OK, I've updated Grenadil, adding a level of Fighter (unarmed) at 2nd level, in place of one rogue level. I believe that makes all feats legit.
I've also completed his background (in his profile) so he's 100% ready for review.
The extra money is only for powerless in the corruption campaign. Not for the current campaign. Specifically because they don't get in game bonuses later.
That's how I read it, anyway.
Whoops, I completely missed that so I won't be updating my characters. I may submit a Corruption though.
The general rule of gestalt is that you get all the best from both sides, but you don't add things from one side to the other to get something better than either.
Because of this, I'd assume you only benefit from a FCB HP if it happens to go on the side with the largest HD. Likewise for a skill point only on the side that grants more of them. That said, I could see a half elf Barbarian/Bard who puts his Barb FCB into HP and his Bard FCB into skill points benefiting from both.
The general rule of gestalt is that you get all the best from both sides, but you don't add things from one side to the other to get something better than either.
Because of this, I'd assume you only benefit from a FCB HP if it happens to go on the side with the largest HD. Likewise for a skill point only on the side that grants more of them. That said, I could see a half elf Barbarian/Bard who puts his Barb FCB into HP and his Bard FCB into skill points benefiting from both.
I think that's a reasonable interpretation; It just seems wrong that Half Elf could get FC HP bonus twice, though I wouldn't object to FC HP Bonus and FC Skill Bonus (or other). So long as the FC Bonus doesn't match, it should be allowable.
@fnord72, anyone can benefit from FC Bonus on one side if they multiclass into PrC, not just Half-Elves (or was that your point?)
yes, that was the point, its like taking a PrC that advances caster level and taking the caster level. You can't exceed total HD in caster level.
Or taking two classes with precision damage, at 10 HD you still only get 5d6 sneak attack.
And, regardless of your race, you still only get one favored class bonus a level. Unless you have another source giving you an additional bonus.
Half elf just means he has more multiclassing options at each level.
It seems a little odd to me to cap sneak attack at 5d6 since a non-gestalt Rogue 5 / Assassin 5 can manage 6d6.
Looks like a base class and PRC can get to 6d6, i.e. Rogue 5/Assassin 5. Though arcane trickster is still 5d6.
An alchamist-vivisectionist/rogue can't get to 6d6 because the vivisectionist specifically states you stack the levels to determine SA dice.
In a gestalt, stacked levels can't exceed HD to determine a feature.
I'm building a diamond-templated aasimar magus/Oracle of stone as an alternate submission with a bit more support ability. When I get I'll type up the specifics.
I'm interested in the bladebound magus archetype, but I'd like to know if I could combine it with the diamond blade somehow. With magus 6/Oracle 10 the enhancement bonuses are almost equal. She could be required to reabsorb the blackblade to reproduce it later, for equality.
If that's a problem I can just drop the archetype though.
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I just changed the character a bit and he now has an owl (bird) animal companion/spirit guide gained by spending two feats (nature soul and animal ally, which you can find in the faiths and philosophies book which I know about from christmas presents)
I am now almost done, I just need to stat out the animal companion (effectively it's as a 7th lvl druid's) and I need to finish my equipment
(Paulicus here)
This is the diamond magus/oracle I mentioned above. I still need to set out the skills, spells, equipment, and flesh out her backstory, but otherwise she's nearing completion.
One other question for you Flinnfurious (aside from the Bladebound archetype/diamond blade thing): Would you allow the favored class bonus to apply to the oracle curse instead of a revelation? It's not RAW, but I thought I'd ask. If not I'll just put it into HP instead.
Thanks!
Sorry for taking so long to post again. I'm a cop and new years means mandatory overtime.
I would highly recommend against running two games in the same world/timeline, especially if there is going to be PVP. It creates a ton of problems with timing and stuff. I've tried it before and it failed horribly.
PvP will be not be a common thing, more saved for end of large sections. That said, I've also ran PvP before and am aware of the problems.
Did not intend to put incorpeals on the list, but won't take it off now. Your strength score is 10 and turning incorpeality on and off is a full round action.That works for me, although it can be even stronger to be optionally incorporeal than constantly so. Unless my gear all falls to the ground when I do, Obi-wan style. That would be very amusing, but I'm not sure it'd be very practical. Although I did once have a Shadowrun character who turned into a bear on a regular basis... his team members carried spare pants for him (he didn't care either way).
For some reason I was denied access to your character.Maybe because I left it mid-edit this morning. I'll close it down once I'm done with it tonight, so it should be accessible.
Last question: Crossblooded & Wildblooded stacking? FAQ says they don't, but there's nothing inherent to them that conflicts.
Edit: Zharr would almost make a better Corruption than a Branded, because he'd be flinging fire everywhere, and it would just mean he wouldn't be as careful with what it might hit. But I'm not sure it's feasible to pull off two overlapping campaigns.
Not feasible? This is an epic super hero based campaign set in one of the best fantasy worlds ever conceived. We left feasible behind upon first post and have now arrived at Awesome Fun Town.
(Paulicus here)
This is the diamond magus/oracle I mentioned above. I still need to set out the skills, spells, equipment, and flesh out her backstory, but otherwise she's nearing completion.
One other question for you Flinnfurious (aside from the Bladebound archetype/diamond blade thing): Would you allow the favored class bonus to apply to the oracle curse instead of a revelation? It's not RAW, but I thought I'd ask. If not I'll just put it into HP instead.
Thanks!
Yes, your diamond blade can be used as part of the blade bound.
Sorry, but no. I know it's a little silly worrying about favored class bonuses in this kind of game, but they do tend to add up.Looks like a base class and PRC can get to 6d6, i.e. Rogue 5/Assassin 5. Though arcane trickster is still 5d6.
An alchamist-vivisectionist/rogue can't get to 6d6 because the vivisectionist specifically states you stack the levels to determine SA dice.
In a gestalt, stacked levels can't exceed HD to determine a feature.
That is usually correct, but this gestalt is a little different. Some monster templates have a 6d6 sneak attack built in and that can be improved with class levels, but only with class levels on the same side. You can't take a monster with a 4d6 sneak attack and combine it with a level 10 rogue for 9d6 sneak attack.
@ashe in gestalt's favored class is once per level.But vanilla half-elves get 2 favoured classes. What if one is one side of the gestalt, and the other is the other side?
I know of at least 1 GM who has ruled that half-Elves (and only half-elves) can get it for both gestalt classes. The question is, does Flinnfurious think that?
No I don't. That ability obviously wasn't geared to gestalt and something shouldn't automatically become infinitely better by just being in a gestalt campaign.
question
out of curiosity, do I count as a dragon for things like dragon disciple? or for favored enemy? and do I count as my origional race for similar effects
That is an excellent question and one that I've been considering at length. My solution is a case by case basis. In these cases, you can take the dragon template and be a dragon disciple. For Favored Enemy you count as both and they can stack. So that will be fun. Traits, feats, etc, you count as your non-effective race. Unless you have a good argument as to why you shouldn't be.
does a powerless half elf get favored bonus for each class each level. IE: +2hp a level or +2SP or +1/+1. Thanks.
Nope.
There is this link and this link.
Both state that natural weapons are not unarmed strikes.
The standard rules do state that natural weapons are not unarmed strikes. I'm sticking by this one, as there's a lot of things that improve both unarmed attack and natural attacks. Players shouldn't get access to all of that for a weapon that can't be sundered or disarmed. Unless they sunder your arm. See what I did there?
Hey Fnord72, thanks for the review of Grenadril. Answers below.
Bonus feats: Style Master is a ninja trick but per UC rogue can choose ninja tricks that they otherwise qualify for.
Improved unarmed strike: that's actually a question I wanted to ask Flinnfurious. Natural attacks (which I have) give the benefits of Improved Unarmed Strike. My bias is that having natural attacks should be an assumed equivalent qualification, but it's a gray area and definitely needs DM input.
Dodge: thanks, I forgot to list that.
Bow: yep it's paid for. I'll list that too.
Literally correct, but spiritually inaccurate. Improved Unarmed Strike (and the feats that improve it) are based on training, not natural hitting power. Anything that requires Improved Unarmed Strike would require that training, not just having claws or fangs. So no.
one more question: If I choose dragon as Favoured enemy, and I meet a humanoid with dragon powers, am I eligible for the bonus? If I have humanoid as favoured enemy, will I still get my Favoured enemy bonus?
Yes your favored enemy bonus counts and it can stack. Normally that wouldn't be the case, but it seemed like fun since the chances of that actually happening is very low.
So, I'm thinking of throwing in with a blink dog ranger/inquisitor. Still awaiting an answer, can I add a template to my monster in exchange for a level?
Sorry for the wait and you cannot. Might be okay if you were playing an animal lord or lycanthrope and wanted to beef up your wild side (lycanthropic Giant Dire Rabbit was an insanely fun character), but not to a blink dog.
The extra money is only for powerless in the corruption campaign. Not for the current campaign. Specifically because they don't get in game bonuses later.
That's how I read it, anyway.
I believe your right! Thanks for pointing that out, glad I didn't start spending :P
Alright, I'm going to say this again. The in-game bonuses for powerless characters will be really awesome. In all honesty, I was considering upping the money for powerless corruption characters even more because it didn't quite seem like enough. Remember, this is a superhero campaign. Ask people on the street who they think the coolest superhero is. Cough *Ironman* cough *batman* cough, cough.
The Minotaur's Tale was one of the more upscale establishments in Kelorav. And one of the oldest. The back wall was formed from an Azlanti tower. The sides from two fortress towers that had been crashed into the tower.
The first owner, a wizard of some reknown, Validk Ghujold, bought the two fortresses and over the course of several months and a considerable sum of magical investment, reworked the towers into a series of tiered balconies soaring a hundred feet up. Each tier sported at least one private suite.
The bottom floors on each side housed staging rooms and supplies for the numerous shows that had been played over the years. And the front of the establishment housed a two story inn and tavern. Enclosing the open area between the two converted fortresses and stretching down to the roof of the inn and tavern was a mosaic of stained glass windows reaching 70 feet.
The window looked west and sun set the images of the stained glass windows played the history of Kelorav across the white backdrop of the Azlanti tower. Many had tried to duplicate the windows, but the spells used by the great wizard were unknown, for as new and significant events took place in Kelorav, their story was added to the magical window show.
The setting sun marked the beginning of the evening's entertainment.
The Minotaur's Tale has one inviolate rule. "Leave the violence outside, or join the others." This sign is posted over a fountain in the foyer. In the pool at the base of the pond several frogs make their home. Some of them stare at you with a look of pleading. Nobody's seen anyone turned into a frog. But everyone knows someone who knew someone that got in a fight and disappeared that night. The next day there was another frog in the fountain.
Maeve has often used the Minotaur's Tale as a meeting place because of the neutrality of the establishment. And she makes a nice wage as an entertainer of some small note....
I didn't literally mean the buildings were smashed together to create Kelovar, but The Minotaur's Tale seems like a cool place and will most likely be part of the main game. If there's any other information that Maeve knows about the place, pm me and I'll get it in there.
No, you don't need to write it twice, though you do need separate spell lists[/QUOTE="Flinnfurious"]
Do you mean for spells prepared? Currently I have my spellbook listed in this profile with wizard/magus only spells labelled as such (still have to go through a few more wizard spells though). Is that acceptable?
I was going to say I needed to buy a few more scrolls, but wow! Now I have another 80000 to spend :P I'll get to that over the next few days.
Yes that's fine.
I know someone else mentioned it in the thread, but the extra money only goes to Corruption characters. Do gooding Powerless get special in game bonuses that will remain a mystery.
Made some small adjustments to the Crimson Blade in light of changes and clarifications.
I agree with Jelani in that I highly advise against running two games with pvp. Two games without it is fine with another GM. I just dont't want the GM to burn out before things actually get going as happens all too often in such over the top games.
I appreciate the concern, but this means a lot to me and I won't be abandoning it. Obviously there will be some pitfalls, but I'm not letting unforeseen future issues derail this campaign.
OK, Flinnfurious. First, thanks for answering all my questions. Crunch is now done for Grenadil Hasbrek and ready for your review (as is a physical description and image reference). Backstory is still in progress, but due to his complexity I'd love to get the crunch reviewed on the sooner side. Please let me know if you see any errors, or have any questions...I've certainly never built a gestalt monster before. ;-)
A few more notes and Qs on my side:
1. HP --
6- Whatever hp the elemental has is what you start with. Class hit points can be added onto that, but you would only get half.I'm not 100% sure I understand but lets work through an example: I started with the Gravity Elemental's 136 HP, and added 11 (1d8=5+5 con +1 fcb) for the one level beyond the elemental template. Are you saying I could also add +half of what his Rogue HP would be for levels 1-9?
1a. If I took +1 HP as my Rogue FCB for my first nine levels, would that add HP for those levels? Or does it not, since the elemental HP are still higher than the Rogue HP for those levels?2. INT -- I noticed you suggested that constructs take a 10 INT. The Gravity Elemental template has only a 6 INT. Do I keep that, or do I bump it up to 10?
Thanks again!
For the HP I was referring to only getting half the classes hit dice in hp, not full as with a normal level one character. For example, tacking a rogue class on the monster gestalt would only add 4 hp for the first level, rather than 8. As for Favored Class Bonuses, they function the same. You can get 1 hp from them for every level you have in that class.
You keep the 6 int. I know it sounds a little off, but at least you're wisdom isn't especially low. Not knowing random facts is a whole lot better than believing any lie or being extra susceptible to various mind attacks.
Not in the list of templates but would you be willing to allow the kirin race?I like the Kirin, but I would be literally buried under a giant mountain of cheese if players could start picking their monster templates. So no, I'm afraid not.
I got up fluff for Felicity. I'll give it another edit before recruitment closes, but it probably won't change much.Looks good.
OK, I've updated Grenadil, adding a level of Fighter (unarmed) at 2nd level, in place of one rogue level. I believe that makes all feats legit.
I've also completed his background (in his profile) so he's 100% ready for review.
Kind of digging the Doctor Manhattan feel. Seems like a really solid character and more balanced than he initially seems. The grav field screws with allies almost as much as enemies and like I said before, BE CAREFUL!. This is fair warning from the GM. Things that can reasonably go wrong with your powers, most likely will. I won't make a baby float and go splat when you move, but there's a decent chance of crates falling on the rest of the party.
Just to clarify, I don't have a problem with PVP, and I would love to be in a functional two group game.
The issue I had with it in the past was purely the shared world aspect. My two groups had varying posting rates, and one group ended up around two weeks in the future of the other group (in game time). Then both groups went to the same place. I had to put the first group on hold for like a month (of real time) because the slower posting group was technically in that location "before" the faster posting one. So if they cleared the dungeon it would be empty when the faster posting group got there, but I didn't know because they weren't done in the dungeon yet. I ended up losing a bunch of players from the group that I put on delay and then having to consolidate them all into one group afterward.
I mean, if you have a way to solve this problem, awesome. Just thought I'd give a heads up because it was an unexpected big pain in the rear for me.