I would very much like to try this. When will recruitment be closed and will you allow the use of the playtest classes from the ACG?
Yes. He already allowed them, though with some caveats:
Only one playtest class. No Slayer/Warpriests for example.
No double-dipping in alternate classes, so no Slayer/Rangers for example.
Sweet.
I'm thinking unicorn Swashbuckler Bard.
With that concept in mind, I have some questions to make sure I'm calculating everything correctly:
- The Bogeyman appears to receive a deflection bonus equal to his Charisma modifier, but this ability is not mentioned anywhere. Can I assume that this bonus will increase if I increase his Charisma modifier?
- Despite the Bogeyman being a 17d6 creature, I will be counted as a 10d10 creature because of the Anti-Paladin levels. Thusly, my Bogeyman abilities will be adjusted down to a 10d10 creature, correct?
- I will still receive the full benefit of the Bogeyman's 6d6 sneak attack, correct?
- I will still receive all of the Bogeyman's feats, correct?
- Since a Fey receives good saves in Ref and Will, and an Anti-Paladin receives good saves in Fort and Will, I will have full progression in all saves, correct?
I think that sums up my questions at this point in time. I do believe that some of these might have already been addressed, but I wanted to make sure I was understanding everything correctly.
Sorry about swapping on you like that. I didn't see your initial post about being a gunslinger. We can still go back if you'd prefer.For your questions:
I`m going bronze dragon// some kind of warrior 10. I have half a mind to go with a scholar who trained martial arts in her spare time, and suddenly got a lot better at it, expressed through her new plethora of natural attacks. She would be a lore warden fighter 10.
Sorry about swapping on you like that. I didn't see your initial post about being a gunslinger. We can still go back if you'd prefer.For your questions:
I can't answer that, unfortunately. I would agree but that's up to Flinn.
10d10 is correct. That comes out to 55HP not including your bonus per level.
Correct.
Correct.
Correct.
No need to be sorry. I only came upon this thread today and you posted your idea before I even put my forward. In fact, I actually was looking at the Bogeyman to begin with, then I switched over to looking at the Pale Stranger upon noticing the fact that you had put forth interest in the Bogeyman. So when I realized that you had switched over to the Pale Stranger, I switched back to the Bogeyman.
It's kind of amusing actually. Not only that, you came up with the same concept for the Pale Stranger that I had been thinking about.
So need to worry about switching. I'm happy with the Bogeyman. It meshes well with the Anti-Paladin to make one truly frightening character. One rather capable of killing through fear alone.
Edit: Hell, the two of our characters could make one hell of a duo too.
Thanks for all of the clarifications so far Flinnfurious.
I'm still a little fuzzy on the feats. A Bebilith / Cleric 10 would get all of the feats listed under the Bebilith entry (That much is clear). Would they also get 5 more feats for the 10 levels of Cleric (levels 1, 3, 5, 7 9)?
Are there any limits on doubling up caster level? Could you do something like a Powerless Wizard 10 / Cleric 5 Mystic Theurge 5 and end up with 15 levels of wizard casting?
Currently I'm debating between a Pixie Ninja Paladin or some kind of Undead Fighter
Sorry for the lack of clarification. I'm used to Giant in the Playground, where gestalt is the rule, rather than the exception. Yes, you would get all 5 feats for the ten levels of cleric.
Abilities granted by both halves of a gestalt do not stack, including spells. If you wanted to take casting prestige class one one side of the gestalt for it's class features, but you wouldn't gain spellcasting levels for a class you're still gaining spellcasting levels from.
I would very much like to try this. When will recruitment be closed and will you allow the use of the playtest classes from the ACG?
To be perfectly honest, I don't when recruitment will close until I start getting more finished character sheets. Will probably announce this weekend and give people some more time to work on character sheets.
Yes, you can playtest an advanced class, but with the following caveat; You may only use one and the other half of the gestalt may not be one of the base classes represented by the advanced class.
With that concept in mind, I have some questions to make sure I'm calculating everything correctly:
- The Bogeyman appears to receive a deflection bonus equal to his Charisma modifier, but this ability is not mentioned anywhere. Can I assume that this bonus will increase if I increase his Charisma modifier?
- Despite the Bogeyman being a 17d6 creature, I will be counted as a 10d10 creature because of the Anti-Paladin levels. Thusly, my Bogeyman abilities will be adjusted down to a 10d10 creature, correct?
- I will still receive the full benefit of the Bogeyman's 6d6 sneak attack, correct?
- I will still receive all of the Bogeyman's feats, correct?
- Since a Fey receives good saves in Ref and Will, and an Anti-Paladin receives good saves in Fort and Will, I will have full progression in all saves, correct?
I think that sums up my questions at this point in time. I do believe that some of these might have already been addressed, but I wanted to make sure I was understanding everything correctly.
It's clear that charisma to deflection bonus was planned, but since it's not specifically stated on his character sheet, increasing it would not increase the deflection bonus.
Yes, for most things, including class features, you are a 10hd character.
Yes, it's a special attack and doesn't apparently come from a class.
Yes, you receive all the Bogeyman's feats.
Yes and no. You cannot gain another level of "Bogeyman", so come levelup time you'll need to choose another class and you'll gain the progressions of that class. So if you choose a class that does have good Ref progression, then you will have good progression on all saves.
@cronax Unless the GM is going way up on the power level, mystic theurge is one of the PRC's that is specifically forbidden in a gestalt.
It is also stated that abilities that stack can't exceed max HD.
So a rogue 10//fighter 5/assassin 5 would still only have 5d6 sneak attack dice.
Ditto with a druid 10//ranger 10. The animal companion is 10th level, not 16th.
On the other hand, you can use the gestalt to catch up missing caster levels. You could have a Ranger 6 // Wizard 6 who at 7th level added Arcane Archer 1 // Wizard 7 to maintain the wizard spell casting. But at 8th level it would have to be Arcane Archer 2 // Ranger 7, with wizard spell casting at 8.
What's the issue with a Mystic Theurge... Yikes. Yeah, that's not allowed. Going to update the starting post.
You are correct Cronax. Unless the monster class specifically has a unique ability that grants an effect beyond that of a normal class (as in the Bogeyman's case) then it cannot go above what a normal HD 10 character is capable of.
Hmm...that's not too horribly big of a deal considering he would still gain his full charisma as a deflection bonus when he smites among other things which make Charisma still heavily worth investing into.
As for the saves, I think Ninja or Rogue would make since for him considering his progression with Bogeyman.
However, I don't know how well this character would play as a Branded. I get the feeling he makes more sense as a part of the Corruptions.
Sorry about swapping on you like that. I didn't see your initial post about being a gunslinger. We can still go back if you'd prefer.For your questions:
I can't answer that, unfortunately. I would agree but that's up to Flinn.
10d10 is correct. That comes out to 55HP not including your bonus per level.
Correct.
Correct.
Correct. No need to be sorry. I only came upon this thread today and you posted your idea before I even put my forward. In fact, I actually was looking at the Bogeyman to begin with, then I switched over to looking at the Pale Stranger upon noticing the fact that you had put forth interest in the Bogeyman. So when I realized that you had switched over to the Pale Stranger, I switched back to the Bogeyman.
It's kind of amusing actually. Not only that, you came up with the same concept for the Pale Stranger that I had been thinking about.
So need to worry about switching. I'm happy with the Bogeyman. It meshes well with the Anti-Paladin to make one truly frightening character. One rather capable of killing through fear alone.
Edit: Hell, the two of our characters could make one hell of a duo too.
In regards to an Anti-Paladin, it's fine to play one, but his brand will need to be stronger and more magically forceful than the others to counter his innately evil nature. There will be serious consequences if he ignores it. He'll be a villain forced to do good, an Anti-Hero if you will. Hehe, see what I did there?
So basically he would have to sate his murdurous lust by dealing with those that seek to do the city harm? Perhaps as part of the special response team 'Raven Watch'?
Hmm...that's not too horribly big of a deal considering he would still gain his full charisma as a deflection bonus when he smites among other things which make Charisma still heavily worth investing into.
As for the saves, I think Ninja or Rogue would make since for him considering his progression with Bogeyman.
However, I don't know how well this character would play as a Branded. I get the feeling he makes more sense as a part of the Corruptions.
Wow, that is some crazy post timing. If you want, he could be a former Corruption or even a Branded trying to be both. Doing forced acts of heroism while still trying to serve his own ends. Maybe even as a Thunderbolts-esque character, acting as a hero to gain peoples trust.
Regardless of the motivation, he must be branded. Don't get me wrong, it would be supremely cool to run a PvP Branded vs Corruption game, but that would require another GM.
Actually, if anyone's up for that, I would be game to play a Corruption. However, unless another GM magically appears, I'll be going forwards with this campaign as is.
Hmm...that gives me a bit to think about.
And while a Branded vs. Corruption game sounds like fun, I don't have the time to run such a thing myself.
Do the construct templates get more intelligence and charisma?
It just seems a shame to do that, in a game with such unusual options.
I agree. I'll probably be creating characters with different templates for a long time based on these guidelines. This is just fun.
Good evening ladies and gentlemen, demigods and halfdead. Simo Munden, Pale Stranger/Mysterious Pistolero is nearly completed. I couldn't figure out how to properly attach the Pale Stranger info onto the gunslinger in HeroLab, so I don't have an actual statblock for him. If anybody can teach me how to move a mythweavers sheet into HL it would be much appreciated.
I'm currently working on the backstory. I might go to bed before I finish, but I'll definitely have it done this weekend; tomorrow depending on how work goes.
What I usually do for Gestalt characters in Hero Lab is to create two separate characters, one for each half, level them both up, and then apply modifiers and/or feats that cause validation errors to one of them to merge in the stats from the other. It's not pretty, though.
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I'm really tempted by the blink dog & it's swift action dimnension door and constant blink, but the stats suck (18-point buy equivalent), the innate feats are meh, and I'd still have 20% miss chance on every attack I made.
What I usually do for Gestalt characters in Hero Lab is to create two separate characters, one for each half, level them both up, and then apply modifiers and/or feats that cause validation errors to one of them to merge in the stats from the other. It's not pretty, though.
That's what I started to do, I got tired of going back and forth between everything though. Maybe I should have stuck with it. I can do it later, it might not be pretty but it's not that hard I guess. Especially now since I have everything finalized, all I have to do is input it all...
SO, mulling the options over I've been getting some inspiration. And I don't think it'll step on any other proposed PCs toes. Apologies and let me know if I did!
Here my idea: half-fiendish wizard 10/ magus 6. The wizard side will likely be transmutation(enhancement) focused, and the magus will probably be of the kensai archetype. While he'll certainly have some spells ready to do the classic magus nova/MASSIVEDAMAGE bit, I've always wanted to try a magus that more often mixes it up in melee whilst simultaneously buffing/debuffing and casting control spells (like stabbing his enemy and greasing their weapon), just to be a little different.
The rough backstory I have so far:
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He was born in Absolom and spent a lot of time at the docks and a sea, raised among smugglers and pirates. When he started showing aptitude for magic, he thought it was more interesting and settled down somewhat by attending one of the magical universities in Absolom. He was a bright student, but always looked down on his peers that focused exclusively on magic to the detriment of their physical abilities. He kept up with his studies, but also spent time training at swordplay in the yard (he uses a cutlass as it is familiar to him from his time at sea). He also focused his magics on increasing his own abilities, leading to his transmutation specialization. However, this seemed odd to most other students, so he was a bit of an outcast. He didn't really mind, but once he became a full-fledged wizard, it affected is professional relations. That's why he was sent on assignment to Kelorav (as a scholar): it wasn't thought of as an extremely interesting Azlanti site by his superiors, and it was a dangerous settlement. He didn't mind, as he could handle himself, and the site was interesting enough to him.
When the event happened, it awoke some latent fiendish heritage in him. However, rather than pushing him towards evil, he instead resolved to fight this new impetus in his mind and overcome prejudice that he knew could result from his new abilities. He was neutral to start, more concerned with himself and knowledge than anything else. I'm not sure if I'll play him as a changed person, or just as a still-neutral character newly striving towards goodness. I'm leaning towards the latter.
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That a quick write-up from the ideas in my head. I'll work on his crunch and developing his backstory some tonight, and hopefully have it complete by saturday sometime.
I believe the half-fiendish template should give him 6+int skill points/level, and I'll probably grab a trait or two for more skills so he can be pretty useful in that regard as well. His knowledge skills should be good too.
Let me know what you think!
After some deliberation I'm going to go Unicorn Swashbuckler Monk based on a combination of Zorro and Kamen Rider.
Can we take crafting feats, and if so, do they apply to beginning equipment?
No you cannot take crafting feats.
Do the construct templates get more intelligence and charisma?
No, just a core intelligence of 10.
Reposting a question which might have been missed:
Is there any particular reason for the 'no two characters can have the same template' rule? After looking through the templates, Nymph is the only one which appeals to me. However, I don't want to step on fnord72's toes. Will submitting another Nymph mean that only one of us can be chosen? If so, I'll go with an 'ordinary' gestalt character instead. It just seems a shame to do that, in a game with such unusual options.
Mostly to avoid redundancy. Submit multiple characters if you want.
With templates do we apply our normal racial ability bonuses in anyway? For that matter does our race factor in at all?
Mostly to avoid redundancy. Submit multiple characters if you want.
Speaking of submitting characters, Simo Munden's backstory and character sheet are complete. I'll try and piece together a HeroLab stat block for him tomorrow, but I'm really going to bed now. Let me know what you think.
I believe the half-fiendish template should give him 6+int skill points/level, and I'll probably grab a trait or two for more skills so he can be pretty useful in that regard as well. His knowledge skills should be good too.I don't think the skill points go for the classes, unless there was a house rule I missed
"Skills: A half-fiend with racial HD has skill points per racial HD equal to 6 + Int mod. Racial class skills are unchanged, and class level skill ranks are unaffected."
Yeah, I realized that looking at the template again. Though I'm unsure if it would count for the 4 racial HD that comes from the template? I could be mistaken.
I think I'm going to go with a Pixie Fighter (Archer) 6 // Rogue 10. May still tweak it. We'll see.
I still have my questions from the previous page. Reposting and separating them for clarity:
For instance, a Blink Dog has (by default) Combat Reflexes and Iron Will from their three hit dice. If I were to add 8 class levels, I'd add four more feats of my chosing (5, 7, 9, 11).
1) So the question here is whether I get Combat Reflexes, Iron Will, and four others, or whether I get to just choose six feats in the first place?
2) This raises two side questions, though. First, does the "other half" provide an additional set of feats (1, 3, 5, 7, 9), giving me a total of 11 feats? Or are those feats supposed to match the ones we get from the monster side (the way typical gestalting works), leaving a total of 5-6 feats?
3) Secondly, what happens when we level up to 11 and would normally get a feat?
The more I work on this guy the more he grows on me.
Need to work on background and finishing getting all the abilities written. But could someone who knows better take a look and make sure everything is getting done correctly?
With templates do we apply our normal racial ability bonuses in anyway? For that matter does our race factor in at all?
Yes, the templates are applied normally.
Do they need to be in HeroLab?
No, mythweavers or even just a post here would be good.
I think I'm going to go with a Pixie Fighter (Archer) 6 // Rogue 10. May still tweak it. We'll see.
I still have my questions from the previous page. Reposting and separating them for clarity:
For instance, a Blink Dog has (by default) Combat Reflexes and Iron Will from their three hit dice. If I were to add 8 class levels, I'd add four more feats of my chosing (5, 7, 9, 11).
1) So the question here is whether I get Combat Reflexes, Iron Will, and four others, or whether I get to just choose six feats in the first place?
2) This raises two side questions, though. First, does the "other half" provide an additional set of feats (1, 3, 5, 7, 9), giving me a total of 11 feats? Or are those feats supposed to match the ones we get from the monster side (the way typical gestalting works), leaving a total of 5-6 feats?
3) Secondly, what happens when we level up to 11 and would normally get a feat?
1- You would get Combat Reflexes and Iron Will, along with four others.
2- No, the other half does not provide an additional set of feats.
3- At level 11 you will just get a singular feat.
In all honesty, you might be overthinking this. Take the monster as is from their bestiary entry. Gain their stats, abilities, skill bonuses, senses, feats, powers, etc. Everything else is as normal. You get normal feat and ability score progression. Think of it as making a level 8 character and then just tacking extra stuff onto him.
Hmm...I think I'll switch my character idea. My last one seems to work better as a Corruption champion as opposed to one of the Branded.
I'm considering a Nereid Flowing Monk instead. With unnatural beauty she fascinates her audience and with a flowing grace she throws off her enemies.
Edit: Not only that, she can really put the flow in the flowing monk when she uses her change shape ability to become a water elemental.
I'm nearing completion in terms of stating her out. Just need to figure out her skill points, finish up picking out her gear, and making some numerical changes based off her gear.
While looking through the magic items, I found the Shawl of Life-Keeping. I was wondering if I might be able to substitute this for the shawl that Nereids normally have. I think it works really well flavor wise considering the power a Nereid's shawl has over her.
No, answer #2 means its only one feat per two HD regardless of whether you have a monster base or a template, or nothing. Monsters that have "extra" hit dice like the blink dog (3 hd+ 8 levels > 10 levels) can get you an extra feat, but in exchange some of your feats are locked to what a typical monster gets, which is often suboptimal.
So if you choose a monster with 10 or more hit dice, you kiss your leveling feats goodbye?
Clearing up any confusion regarding feats, you get any feats the monster has free of charge. They don't come out of your feats per level and you cannot change them. Normally this would present some balance issues, but most of them provide small bonuses (like endurance of great fortitude) or just improve a natural attack. In a game like this, that's not enough to warrant a significant change.
I'm nearing completion in terms of stating her out. Just need to figure out her skill points, finish up picking out her gear, and making some numerical changes based off her gear.
While looking through the magic items, I found the Shawl of Life-Keeping. I was wondering if I might be able to substitute this for the shawl that Nereids normally have. I think it works really well flavor wise considering the power a Nereid's shawl has over her.
That would be great.
Let me introduce you to Maeve Dawnbringer.
** spoiler omitted **...
Looks like a solid character.
I'm glad to hear your okay with that idea and your clarification on the feats means I have her built correctly so far. Thusly, I need to finish up some skill points, some gear, and finish adjusting things. Otherwise, I think that should finish up the mechanics.
Also, for half hit dice after level 1, you mean a d12 would grant you 6 hit points, a d10 would grant you 5 hit points, a d8 would grant you 4 hit points, and a d6 would grant you 3 hits points. Correct?
Clearing up any confusion regarding feats, you get any feats the monster has free of charge. They don't come out of your feats per level and you cannot change them. Normally this would present some balance issues, but most of them provide small bonuses (like endurance of great fortitude) or just improve a natural attack. In a game like this, that's not enough to warrant a significant change.
Ok, just to make sure we're on the same page... everyone gets 5 feats of their choice (at 1, 3, 5, 7, 9), plus any feats their monster comes with. No more (except for class features), and no less.
So the blinkdog character would have Combat Reflexes, Iron Will, and 5 more.
I'm sorry for harping on this point - I'm just trying to wrap my head around it and I want to make sure that I have it right.
Clearing up any confusion regarding feats, you get any feats the monster has free of charge. They don't come out of your feats per level and you cannot change them. Normally this would present some balance issues, but most of them provide small bonuses (like endurance of great fortitude) or just improve a natural attack. In a game like this, that's not enough to warrant a significant change.
Ok, just to make sure we're on the same page... everyone gets 5 feats of their choice (at 1, 3, 5, 7, 9), plus any feats their monster comes with. No more (except for class features), and no less.
So the blinkdog character would have Combat Reflexes, Iron Will, and 5 more.
I'm sorry for harping on this point - I'm just trying to wrap my head around it and I want to make sure that I have it right.
That's my take on it as well. So you definitely find a benefit in extra feats for choosing a monster that has a higher CR and Hit Dice pool, however you also lose out on the chance to gain more abilities by taking more class levels.
What really hurts is the gold. I'm finding myself shifting gears from building a level 10 character to building a level 6.
On the bright side it seems The Crimson Blade may has Zorro's attitude with Kamen Rider's style but he fights like Kenshiro.
Captian Fremont here with my Nereid Flowing Monk. She's just about completely stated up except for a bit of equipment.
Otherwise, her background is to follow. So far I envision her as once having made her living as a pearl diver off the docks of Kelorav and on one particularly clear night she was found in those waters when an orb of blue light engulfed the city in it's brilliant light.
I think I've got a fix on the character I want.
He's a paldin of an order I just made up, the Knights of the Anchor (name is negotiable: among other ideas rank Knights of the Harbor, Waveknights and Anchorites). This order consider it its duty to keep safe those who sail the high seas. Such a paladin will probably find adventure by chasing pirates, dealing with those who lure ships to their doom by creating false lighthouses, and, more importantly for this story, they attempt to staunch the rise of crime that inevitably runs like wildfire through any port town. This is why Kelarov, as a recently established and excessively lawless port city, has attracted their attention. It is why my character is in town, and has become part of the city watch.
He's going to be a human with the vampire template (I'd make him powerless, but 25pb isn't going to shape up to his partymember's stats, and four class levels and 20000 gold isn't enough to make up for it.)
Class will probably be a mix of paladin, swashbuckler, duelist and monk. I might go without one or two of those classes.