Clebsch's Reign of Winter

Game Master Clebsch RoW

Should I just upgrade my gear to the new GP amount. I seem to be the only one who hasn't completed that.

That's a good idea. Assume the GP amount is in a highly portable form of trade goods like gems or jewelry. There will be an opportunity to get items in the near future, so get your shopping list in order in the next week or two.

I'll leave it up to you to choose how much you want to explore this area of the hut. There is nothing essential to the adventure, but there are some treasures that could be won if you care the risk combat with the things guarding them. Otherwise, if you go to the west side of the map, you can get past this portion of the adventure and to the exit to the hut, where the primary events of the book take place.

I'm inclined to explore a bit, but I'm good with whatever the majority prefers.

I am a normal player, so I say loot the world!

My work schedule has changed. For the next five weeks, I'll be unable to post generally after 3 PM (same time zone as New York City) on Monday through Thursday. I'll check games in the morning and make what posts I can.

Also, I may be traveling on April 6-9. I should have some access to Wifi and a laptop, but if a post is needed in this period, please
'bot my character. It's possible the trip will not happen, in which case I'll let you know. (I'm hoping to see the total solar eclipse on April 8 in Ohio, USA.)

Understood!

Going to say right up front that this is my first time ever playing a stealthy rouge-like character, and it's been a bit since high level play, but I'm doing my best to learn/relearn everything.

I don't plan on explaining all of that every time, but damage numbers that crazy high needed some explanation the first time, just so y'all know I'm not crazy. Just imagine if it had been a crit (x3)!

Splat!

…I might have to look into playing calavier now holy sh-

Damn!

Impressive, but the plant managed to sunder the weapon and give it the broken condition, which makes a mess of the determination of damage.

Would you please explain all the details of the damage, including the reason for the base damage for the lance listed as 3d6+17. Then indicate what the damage would be on a charge, without the power attack bonus, including the spirited charge benefit.

I believe we established that although a centaur is a large creature, the humanoid portion is the same size as a medium creature and hence cannot use a large weapon without a penalty. The lance is listed as 1d8 for a medium version.

I'm likely not going to be able to post on this topic until next week when I'm done traveling, so take your time with this.

Actually, since the lance is a magical weapon with a +1 bonus, its hardness is increased by +2 and its HP are increased by +10. In the end, the lance has 7 hardness and 20hp, so it should not be broken with that damage.

About his damage, I believe the damage should be 2d6+6. It has the impact property, so it counts as one size larger (from 1d8 to 2d6). The remaining +9 (to reach +17) comes from auto including Power Attack to it. The to hit bonus seems one off the mark and is probably +13/+8 (10 bab, 5 Str, -1 size, +1 magic weapon, +1 focus, -3 PA).

The other attacks seem fine with the exception of the hooves, which should be 2 separate attacks of +6 (2d6+5/19-20).

So:

normal lance +16/+11 2d6+6
lance and PW +13/+8 2d6+15
lance and spirited charge +18 6d6+18
lance, spirited charge, PA +15 6d6+45
lance, spirited charge, PA, challenge +15 6d6+87

I replied in the game play, but I will post this here as well.

A few thoughts.

Was the plant doing a readied attack? Because Ride By Attack prevents the target of the attack from getting an attack of opportunity. I am not sure if this was a readied attack from one of the plants or an AoO. In the initial initiative Thorizmond is listed as before the plant creature, but later it looks like one may have acted before him. from your description I am not sure which one took the attack, but it sounds more like an AoO then a Readied action. In which case the attack should not have happened and the discussion is kind of moot for now. But it might come up again in the future.

As an addendum since you had it attack right after, then the Sunder attempt was likely the AoO which would not have gone off due to the Ride by Attack.

As for the damage question, Spirited Charge is not a critical hit. If he did actually get a Critical Hit with a Lance it would normally do x5 damage with Spirited Charge. With a Broken Lance the Critical strike would instead do x4 instead of x5 because of the condition changing the maximum critical of a Broken weapon. Spirited Charge does a bunch of extra damage which is not dependant on the weapons critical bonus. A lance does more damage because it is specifically designed to do more damage with a charging mounted character. But if you were to use a Halberd which also has a x3 Critical Hit modifier, you would only get double damage from Spirited Charge.

I’m at work right now but yes, that statblock needs updating. I’m not sure where the error entered, but yes I was somehow assuming the base Lance was large (2d6, improved to 3d6 by the Impact property). I caught it while typing out the post, fixed it in HeroLab but forgot to update the statblock. In the post, it’s corrected (base 1d8, improved to 2d6 by impact). I’ll be getting home late tonight, so it may be Saturday afternoon before I can give a full accounting, but I may be able to squeeze it in tonight.

With Thundering Hooves he could also make a single hoof attack of +8 4d6+38/19-20.

The Mammoth Hide armor would not apply extra damage to the hoof attack because it is limited to the first successful attack.

Yikes!

Normally, a good way to balance charges is with difficult terrain, but the courser ability lets him ignore up to 10 feet of difficult terrain each round.

Ok. I've updated my statblock, it should be correct now. As for the breakdown, it is as follows:

2d6 (base medium lance 1d8, up one size from Impact) +5(STR) +9(Power Attack) +1(Enhancement) +14(Challenge) +4d6(Mammoth Hide). All but the mammoth hide bonus is multiplied by 3 because of Spirited Charge, so the total is, as my STEM teacher mother might have written it ((2d6+29)x3)+4d6. Or 6d6+87+4d6, if you prefer.

I should note that Challenge is normally equal to level (10), but I have a Champion's Banner which allows me to treat my class level as 4 higher for purposes of bonuses granted by the Challenge class feature).

I should also note that there may be a weird edge case going on with the lance and power attack. Power Attack says " You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls." Bolded for emphasis. A lance is two-handed, so HeroLab is adding 9 (6x1.5). However, while mounted, you wield a lance one-handed, so I can see an argument that it should be treated as a one-handed weapon and not get the 1.5 multiplier. PA does say a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands gets the bonus, so the converse is logical...but the feat says nothing about a two-handed weapon wielded in one hand, so I can see the argument that HeroLab is correct to use the 1.5x multiplier. I'm open to either GM interpretation, but if I don't get the multiplier, my PA damage goes down by 3, and total (after charge multiplier) goes down by 9.

Attack bonus, if that's desired as well, works like this: 10(BAB) +5(STR) -1(Large) +1(Weapon Focus Lance) +1 (enhancement) -3(Power Attack)

I should note that I'm not multiplying the Mammoth Hide damage, but reading over it again for completeness, I'm not sure that's the correct reading. Here's the text:
"In addition to granting a +3 enhancement bonus to AC, it has a –1 armor check penalty and grants the wearer 4d6 additional points of damage on the first successful charge attack she makes in a round, including a mounted charge."
Spirited charge specifically talks about multiplying damage "with a melee" weapon, which the armor isn't, and let's face it: another 8d6 damage there would be kind of absurd.

Pyrrhus thanks for reminding me about the hooves, I forgot that I get to make that extra attack, was just thinking of the normal standard action single attack on a charge.

I wasn't thinking of AoOs when I took my turn, I was just thinking of trying out this crazy charge build, lol. But I think Crasius raises good points re: Ride-by Attack, and likewise Pyrrhus with the hardness and HP of magical weapons.

I am sorry for not posting recently. As I said I would be, I was traveling since Saturday morning and while I had some time on the weekend with Internet access, I had trouble signing on to Paizo and could not bet a password reset to work. I'm just now able to post again, but now I'm crunched for time as I get caught up on my work and all my games.

I'll look over all the posts soon and get things moving again.

I did see the total eclipse!

Thoughts on Thorizmond's damage when charging.

First, a medium lance does 1d8 normally.

The Impact special magic ability would make this do damage as a large weapon, which would be 2d6 (as indicated for normal attack damage before bonuses).

Next the strength bonus: Str 20 has a +5 to damage normally. You list the normal damage for the lance as 2d6 + 15. The magic weapon bonus adds +1, which brings to +6. This is before any power attack bonus. Please explain where the other +9 comes from. If you are using 1.5 strength bonus, this would bring it up to 9, so then there is +6 to explain. Is that Power attack?

Trying to figure out the attack bonus listed for the lance, you get 10 from BAB, +5 from strength, +1 from the enchantment bonus, so that would be + 16. Is this assuming you will always do a power attack? That would reduce the bonus to 13? It's best when listing your weapons bonus and damage to do it without the Power attack, which is how Paizo normally lists such things in stat blocks.

Once we sort this strength bonus out, then we can work out the special features like power attack and spirited charge.

I'm just trying to understand the mechanics of the various aspects of this attack and damage situation, so bear with me if I'm missing anything obvious.

For your other melee weapons, are those assuming power attack? I'd prefer those too be listed without the power attack bonus. If you want to add entries to show the attack bonus and damage with power attack, that's fine, but I need to know what the base is first.

Question-can Pemta move through the dead moonflower? Cause otherwise I'll have to have her move around the long way.

Ok, here is a breakdown of our centaurs massive damage:

To hit with lance: 10 BAB + 5 STR - 1 size + 1 weapon focus + 1 magic weapon = +16/+11
>Conditionals: + 2 charge, - 3 Power Attack

Damage: 5 STR + 1 magic weapon = 2d6+6
>Conditionals: +9 Power Attack*, + 14 challenge

* Like Thorizmond mentioned, there is an argument about the damage from power attack being +9 or +6. He is using a two-handed weapon with a single hand. RAW seems to indicate +9, but to me personally, the RAI would be +6 since I believe it makes more sense to be tied to the number of hands being used.

On his attack, he used a charge, power attack and challenge for an attack of +15 (2d6+6+9+14).

With the Spirited Charge feat, this damage gets trippled and with his magical armor, he even adds another +4d6 to the first damage after a charge, for a whooping +15 (6d6+18+27+42 plus 4d6).

He also could have made an extra attack with his hooves at -5 for +8 (+5 BAB, +5 Str, -1 size, +2 charge, -3 power attack) and 2d6+2+3+14 (it is a secondary natural attack, so half strength and reduced power attack), which gets doubled as well with spirited charge for 4d6+4+6+28.

Now, with the breakdown out of the way, I'd like to offer some thoughts on the matter.

This attack has an average of 122 damage for the lance and another 52 for the hoof. At our level, the average of enemies we'll face will have around 24 AC, so I believe we can focus on the lance because the hoof isn't very likely to hit often.

Now, breaking down how this is possible.

Challenge: At the moment, Thorizmond can challenge a foe 4 times/day, and this corresponds to 35% of his damage. I believe he'll save it for enemies that seem threatening enough.

Charge: Charges are reigned by obstacles, room and difficult terrain. A good amount of times Thorizmond will have to waste his first round to put himself into a position where he can charge and the dynamic aspect of combat could even ruin it with enemies and allies moving around. He can deal with difficult terrain pretty well, but enough room could be problematic in smaller dungeons. Besides all that, he is the only actual melee character and as soon as he is engaged, his ability to charge is reduced. Against flying enemies (which are much more common as we go into higher levels) charges are basically useless. All in all, charge isn't reliable.

All or Nothing: Much like Vital Strikes, charges are a single attack and if it misses, all is lost.

Final Thoughts

Thorizmond has spent a lot of his resources on making charges deadly and he was successful. When stars align, he'll probably be able to kill an enemy in a single hit. However, in many occasions he won't be able to charge at all or do so with limited effect. IMO it is good but not broken due to its limited usefulness.

And that's without even getting into issues like flying enemies that he can't reach, Thorizmond getting mind-controlled and attacking us, etc.

It is also important to note that the Lance is a reach weapon, so if he is adjacent to a medium foe he cannot use it in combat. This has the diagram for reach. He counts as Large (Long). There is a feat that allows you to use a reach weapon as a non-reach weapon, but he does not seem to have it.

The reality is, in the wide open like this he is amazing. In a narrow room with the party running around, furniture, etc., he will rarely get to charge. Being large will impede a lot of his ability to charge in the areas most commonly seen in modules. I have never played through this series though. If we are in all open wide plains from here on out, he will be amazing.

Agree to everything said.

I've run across some of the issues he'll have with Wapiti (difficulty maneuvering, lack of a charge lane), so it's definitely a trade-off of being an absolutely devastating "one trick pony", but those moments will be few and far between.

Thoughts on Thorizmond's damage when charging.

First, a medium lance does 1d8 normally.

The Impact special magic ability would make this do damage as a large weapon, which would be 2d6 (as indicated for normal attack damage before bonuses).

Next the strength bonus: Str 20 has a +5 to damage normally. You list the normal damage for the lance as 2d6 + 15. The magic weapon bonus adds +1, which brings to +6. This is before any power attack bonus. Please explain where the other +9 comes from. If you are using 1.5 strength bonus, this would bring it up to 9, so then there is +6 to explain. Is that Power attack?

Trying to figure out the attack bonus listed for the lance, you get 10 from BAB, +5 from strength, +1 from the enchantment bonus, so that would be + 16. Is this assuming you will always do a power attack? That would reduce the bonus to 13? It's best when listing your weapons bonus and damage to do it without the Power attack, which is how Paizo normally lists such things in stat blocks.

Once we sort this strength bonus out, then we can work out the special features like power attack and spirited charge.

I'm just trying to understand the mechanics of the various aspects of this attack and damage situation, so bear with me if I'm missing anything obvious.

For your other melee weapons, are those assuming power attack? I'd prefer those too be listed without the power attack bonus. If you want to add entries to show the attack bonus and damage with power attack, that's fine, but I need to know what the base is first.

Generally speaking, if I have Power Attack, I use Power Attack. The only real exception is high AC monsters; if I have the choice between only hitting on a 20 with Power Attack or hitting on a 17 without, I probably don't use Power Attack. That's why I usually include it in my base stats. But I've taken it out, not a problem.

As to the bonuses, here's my math:
Attack: 10(BAB) +5(STR) -1 (Large) +1 (Weapon Focus) +1(Enhancement) -3 (Power Attack), for a total of +13
Damage: 2d6 +5(STR) +1(Enhancement) +9(Power Attack), for 2d6+15 total.

If I strip out Power Attack, those become the following:
Attack: 10(BAB) +5(STR) -1 (Large) +1 (Weapon Focus) +1(Enhancement), for a total of +16
Damage: 2d6 +5(STR) +1(Enhancement), for 2d6+6 total.

There's also +14 damage I can get on a Challenge, which as Pyrrhus correctly infers, I'll only be using when I think I need to, but I did use on the attack in question.

Question-can Pemta move through the dead moonflower? Cause otherwise I'll have to have her move around the long way.

The dead moonflower does not change the terrain it is on. Where it is on the path, it is normal terrain. Where it is in the 'jungle' it is difficult terrain.

He also could have made an extra attack with his hooves at -5 for +8 (+5 BAB, +5 Str, -1 size, +2 charge, -3 power attack) and 2d6+2+3+14 (it is a secondary natural attack, so half strength and reduced power attack), which gets doubled as well with spirited charge for 4d6+4+6+28.

I follow all of this except the part quoted above. Thanks for that breakdown.

The special attack "Charge" limits the character to one attack, so he could not make hoof attacks on the same round as the lance charge attack.

Rules: "Attacking on a Charge: After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll and take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn. ...

Even if you have extra attacks, such as from having a high enough base attack bonus or from using multiple weapons, you only get to make one attack during a charge."

The Charger Cavalier archetype has a feature that allows it:

Thundering Hooves (Ex): At 3rd level, a charger’s hoof attack deals an additional 1d6 points of damage and its critical threat range increases to 19–20. This effect doesn’t stack with any other effect that expands the critical threat range of a weapon. Whenever he performs a charge, the charger can make an additional hoof attack against his target with a –5 penalty on his attack roll. This ability replaces cavalier’s charge.

Charge: Charges are reigned by obstacles, room and difficult terrain. A good amount of times Thorizmond will have to waste his first round to put himself into a position where he can charge and the dynamic aspect of combat could even ruin it with enemies and allies moving around. He can deal with difficult terrain pretty well, but enough room could be problematic in smaller dungeons. Besides all that, he is the only actual melee character and as soon as he is engaged, his ability to charge is reduced. Against flying enemies (which are much more common as we go into higher levels) charges are basically useless. All in all, charge isn't reliable.

Good points all, and I'm not trying to take anything away from that. I just want to make sure I understand the mechanics and where the bonuses are coming from and how they are limited. This is so I know how things a like a critical hit or a sundered weapon will be handled.

I would point out that I've made charging easier than RAW by my house rule that requires only the last ten feet of movement be in a straight line on normal terrain. RAW requires the entire move action be in a straight line on normal terrain with no obstacles.

This results in odd situations where I could move up to ten feet away on my previous turn and then make a charge the last ten feet on my next turn. But if I do the move as part of the current move action, a much longer stretch of the path must be straight. The only difference between these two cases is the artificial point where one turn changes to another.

Thanks for the correction on the hooves attacks during a charge.

This is the type of thing that helps me as the moderator to have explained at least once. If I were to figure all that out myself, it would require reading through all the Cavalier abilities, special abilities, feats, etc. As we go forward, I can refer to these posts for quick review of the features.

So generally to all PCs, if you are using some special ability from your class, some new feat, or some magic effect, it helps me if you can add links to the relevant description of the ability, feat, or spell as part of your post. I know it's a little extra work to locate the link and set up the [url][/url] part, but it saves me lots of time when I go to moderate a result. Since my time is limited and posts often take me hours when lots is going on in melee, I much appreciate being able to just click on a few links and refresh my memory on how the relevant rules apply. I prefer using Archive of Nethys, for what it's worth.

I like to provide these links when I post for a PC, knowing how it helps the GM. So when I have time, I usually put the links directly into my character profile. That way, I can look up the rules quickly when posting and can quickly provide the GM with a link in my post without having to do a search. It also allows the GM to go to my PC profile page and click on the links if ze is trying to work out something not directly related to a PC post.

I've had a busy weekend with having to prepare my taxes and get caught up on other things left over from the week. Things should smooth out this week, except for a few medical appointments that will eat up a bit of extra time on Tuesday and Friday.

I do plan another long weekend trip in the coming weeks to get up to New York from Virginia to visit my brother. I'll let you know when that happens.

In the spirit of transparency and explaining these different abilities, I'll go ahead and do the explanation for Pyrrhus more unusual abilities/feats.

All in all, he is a pretty standard sorcerer focused on as much utility as possible. As an ifrit, his Cha is considered 2 higher for spells and class abilities since he took the elemental (fire) bloodline.

He took the Wishcrafter archetype, which is mostly for flavor. The main difference is that he can use other people's "wishes" as the verbal component for his spells and if he does so, the spell is cast at +1 caster level.

EX.: someone says "I wish I was a giant!" and Pyrrhus could use that to cast Enlarge Person with just somatic components.

He also can choose from any spell as his bloodline spells, but these can ONLY be cast through this wish mechanic, and finally the ability to force people to voice a wish aloud, which he can then use to cast a spell as mentioned.

These three abilities are called Wishbound Arcana, Expanded Wishcraft, and Heart’s Desire, which are also reproduced in my sheet (in a simplified version when possible).

Aside from that, he also has a Bloodline Mutaion, Blood Piercing, which allows me to reduce the targets' energy resistance and spell resistance by 8 (my Cha modifier) when using a spell that deals damage. This can be done 2/day (can be up to 4/day in the future) and are part of the action to cast the spell.

For feats, I have two that are more unusual, Versatile Spontaneity and Planned Spontaneity.

Versatile Spontaneity allows me prepare a spell from a written source (spellbook or scroll) by expending a slot of a higher level (Ex.: Pyrrhus spent a 3rd level slot to prepare gust of wind, a 2nd level spell). This can be done only when I regain my spells, takes 10 min/level of the spell and consumes a scroll (spellbooks are unaffected). In theory, could do this an unlimited amount of time, but this would take just too much time to prepare to the point of being unfeasible. It does add some greater flexibility to a sorcerer's limited spell selection.

Planned Spontaneity is a follow up from the previous feat, because when I prepare spells, I can designate up to three prepared spell slots from different levels and prepare two different spells in a single slot, choosing which one to cast (Ex.: when Pyrrhus spent a 3rd spell slot to prepare gust of wind, he also prepared fog cloud in the same slot). This also adds some great flexibility.

Sorry everyone, been out of town. Back now and getting caught up.

Similarly, started a new job and I now have a commute of 52 hours per month (month, not week). Sooo it's a little harder to squeeze in time!

That is a lot of commute. Hopefully, you love the new job.

It is a lot. The job is good so far, we'll see how it shapes up over time. One of my principal goals is to prove that I can be permitted to work remotely, and stop having to do the commute.

That would be good!

I have a pretty long commute, but I can work remotely a couple of times a week. I think the hybrid work environment is pretty awesome.

I apologize for not posting when I said I would. I don't have a good excuse. I've been focusing on posting as a player and a number of the online games I joined a while back have been wrapping up and I've been focused on making sure I post when needed so these other games can close on time. I'll try to do better, although I would still be glad to hand off GM duties to someone who is willing to take them up. Until then, periodic gaps in my posting will happen. Thanks for your patience.

The post is up in the gameplay thread. Please post in initiative order, once Thorzimond posts. It's a tricky situation but you are all good role-players so try to think as your characters would and not as players who have very good reason to think a combat with a deadly enemy is imminent. :)

I appreciate you running the game! Life gets busy, but this game is doing a pretty good job of chugging along.

Sorry. Birthday weekend, kid had Soccer interleague championships, and just all around busy couple of days.

RL always comes first. Assuming you are okay with the 'bot, I'll post the NPCs, which is where this is going to get interesting.

Yeah that works for me.

I'm going to be on a trip from this Friday to Sunday, with little time to post. So I'll move things one way or another early next week. A post from Ingrit would still be nice, so I've heard from each PC.

Just a probability test.
1d100 ⇒ 93
1d100 ⇒ 35
1d100 ⇒ 24
1d100 ⇒ 30
1d100 ⇒ 84

When I first started using the dicebots with PBP games on Paizo, I did a large number of rolls and subjected the results to some statistics tests and a science minded friend of mine did the same. The dicebot program does seem to produce a good simulation of a random number generator.

What people often don't understand about statistics is that unlikely events can happen several times in a row.

When I was playing TTRPGs a friend always insisted her rolls were cursed and rarely getting high rolls while low rolls predominated. One game, I quietly noted each d20 rolls and the distribution of high and low rolls was what would be expected. She was just noticing all the low rolls because they fit her expectation but failed to notice how often she got high rolls.

Roll20 has changed quite a bit since we did this. But a friend and I both tracked dice on Roll20 and just ran large number amounts to create a pool, and the average roll on a large pool was lower then it should have been. He thought that when the system ran into issues and timed out that it just defaulted to a 1 as all dice had that as an option. Overall, I do think the dice bots seem to do pretty well at random number generation.

There is definitely a propensity for some players to always remember low dice and other players to always focus on above average dice.