Ambitious Hearts: Tales from the Forgotten Realms

Game Master Dogbladewarrior

I agree keeping close to core would make life a lot simpler, I do not have all the 3ed party books so that could be a problem for me

Fair enough, that option was the most complex, yet allowed the most freedom.

That said, thoughts on everything else I posted? I wrote a bunch of paragraphs and all I've gotten is a couple of sentences in response. *grumbles about feeding you all to my pet Daemon*

it all sounds good to me, gonna have to update my character and whatnot. not sure what kind of mythic tier i should go with as a psion. archmage seems obvious.

normal or mythic levelling sounds cool

Rosa is going heirophant T4 and see how it works, seems to be a good fit for her.

I am leaning towards Mythic leveling over normal, just because I would like to play test it to T10

But thats just me

Rosa is going heirophant T4 and see how it works, seems to be a good fit for her.

I am leaning towards Mythic leveling over normal, just because I would like to play test it to T10

But thats just me

This sounds good to me too.

The only thing is, what do we do with actual XP, since Mythic doesn't work offa XP??

The only thing is, what do we do with actual XP, since Mythic doesn't work offa XP??

Nothing, I suppose. Of course we could level with XP and increase our mythic by deed simultaneously.

yeah im not in any rush to level regular levels, but i could add some levels on if thats what we are doing

I myself would just drop XP, and say only mythic deeds, just to test how that works. after we can just slip into Epic and say group of Mega testers gets a level like Mythic on a deed bases thing. Keeping a list of XP at this level will be very hard, as we would have to loot etc. Im just thinking of keeping it simple. But at some point we may reach the Mythic limit and then move onto Epic + Mythic.

:)

yeah transparency in combat is good, i was surprised on how it affected the game for me. in a normal game i will usually keep track of my hits and misses to try to narrow down the AC of an enemy, and other things like that. but when the AC is just there and known i think about it a lot less haha

also, while i may not run an encounter, i certainly would like to make a big bad guy or three for someone else's needs. although i might run an encounter, who knows. I'm just not good at coming up with plot twists and stuff like that

Tenro if the others are ok with you making bad guys I think thats way cool

also, looking at the mythic rules, nothing really fits Aovar. He is a Psion, so the closest would be archmage, but even then, those rules would be shoddily clod together with his class.

I have an idea for a summoner that i think i will try though, and should hopefully be able to compete with the power level we are at. i should have something up tomorrow if its alright.

ok i have been mulling it over and considering various things and i think my new concept will be:

The goddess I follow is in the same Genre as Corellon.

If your PCs going to be a Synthesist Summoner, and fighter going to be epic at fighting, AC up in the 60s 70s cool

I am leery about Summoners and Synthesists, as I have heard many tales of them outright breaking the game, though I am unsure how that will be at our level of power.

I am not saying to not make one, but I want to make sure you aren't going to go out your way to make some sort of ungodly killing machine that can tear even lvl 20+ encounters to shreds all by his lonesome.

I am leery about Summoners and Synthesists, as I have heard many tales of them outright breaking the game, though I am unsure how that will be at our level of power.

I am not saying to not make one, but I want to make sure you aren't going to go out your way to make some sort of ungodly killing machine that can tear even lvl 20+ encounters to shreds all by his lonesome.

Except it all goes away with one dismissal spell. ;-)

Except it all goes away with one dismissal spell. ;-)

Yep.

I'm not cheesing out on it, to be sure. I know at this level enemies can be throwing out dismissals left and right so I am making sure he can stand somewhat on his own as well (making sure not to dump physical stats like some people do) and stuff like that. I don't think my AC is going to be up in the 60s-70s, and even if it is pretty high AC a LOT of it comes from Armor and Natural Armor, meaning touch attacks still tear through it. His BAB will still top out at +15 unless i take that one HOPF that changes that. I'm not going the "let's make my regular 3 attacks and then 7 natural attacks" route because that can or worms confuses me. Mainly, i will have really high HP, pretty great AC (but still buying some magical light armor for when im not in the eidolon), good defensive capabilities.

Mainly, I am not trying to make some sort of one trick pony who is useless without his eidolon, and i imagine there are going to be times where i wont have it for whatever reason so i plan to do some regular summoning as well.

Rather than solo charging a dragon and slaying it in a full attack, he will be more of someone who slowly wades through an enemy phalanx or holds off a pass by himself.

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

Except it all goes away with one dismissal spell. ;-)

Yep.

I'm not cheesing out on it, to be sure. I know at this level enemies can be throwing out dismissals left and right so I am making sure he can stand somewhat on his own as well (making sure not to dump physical stats like some people do) and stuff like that. I don't think my AC is going to be up in the 60s-70s, and even if it is pretty high AC a LOT of it comes from Armor and Natural Armor, meaning touch attacks still tear through it. His BAB will still top out at +15 unless i take that one HOPF that changes that. I'm not going the "let's make my regular 3 attacks and then 7 natural attacks" route because that can or worms confuses me. Mainly, i will have really high HP, pretty great AC (but still buying some magical light armor for when im not in the eidolon), good defensive capabilities.

Mainly, I am not trying to make some sort of one trick pony who is useless without his eidolon, and i imagine there are going to be times where i wont have it for whatever reason so i plan to do some regular summoning as well.

Rather than solo charging a dragon and slaying it in a full attack, he will be more of someone who slowly wades through an enemy phalanx or holds off a pass by himself.

I'll get the dragon. ;-)

My $.02 for epic leveling is to follow the guidelines on the srd site.

It allows for focused growth without the severity of breaking that happened in 3.0, and if your character wants to start in a new class to broaden his abilities, then just start progressing in one.

Adding in epic feats is where the complications are going to start coming in.

I do have another question though,

What do you all think of enchanting clothing as armor with a base AC of zero?

Kind of how magic vestment works, but without that specific spell.

I used to do that all the time with in my home games, but I am unsure if the others would be ok with that.

If they are, I have no issue personally.

I am leery about Summoners and Synthesists, as I have heard many tales of them outright breaking the game, though I am unsure how that will be at our level of power.

its true with 20th level and 3 HOPF and can make a PC that has AC70+ and moves per round at Mark 1.4 the speed of sound as a Synthesists,

http://paizo.com/people/SolAlarDeXinMin

Eidolon Synthesist
AC 63 = 10 (+7 dex mod) (+2 Eidolon form)(+16 Eidolon levels) (+14 Eidolon Evolutions) (+4 Greater Shielded Meld) (+1feat)(+8 Braces of Armor) (+1 Item) (+8 Amulet of NA)

Touch AC 41 FF AC56

[b]Speed 40' Flight 240'

Or I could have that wrong, it could be 54.5 Mph hasted? arrr

240fpr x 10 to get feet per Min 2400fpm x 60 to get fph144000
Feet in the mile 5280 so 144000/5200 = 27.5MPH
Move X 5 - 135mph

That sounds off?

thats with out HOPFs

she moving at Mark 1 ever round and has fly by and spring attack, with perfect flight.

V dismissal spell whats its range again,

PIZZZ-ZOOOWWWW.......

arr not that far and with HOPFs our will saves are nuts

as for the PC never played her in a game she is just to broken.

hehe

how is your touch AC 41? the numbers aren't adding up in my head.

Also, spellcasting can be readied for when you get in range, plus there are metamagic feats to increase range, enchanted arrows, etc.

also it looks like you put a lot more eidolon evolution points into AC-related things than i plan on doing. I'm planning on going for energy immunities and fast healing (both of which are quite a heavy drain on evolution points)

I used to do that all the time with in my home games, but I am unsure if the others would be ok with that.

If they are, I have no issue personally.

doesnt bother me. i dont see a real purpose to it (that cant be produced already through existing rules) other than stacking AC bonuses in a shifty way

well, my new character is a wizard, and I had planned on going cleric for the other half of the mystic theurge. Then i started working on a concept that was going to work better with druid instead.

Unfortunately, the options for reducing arcane spell chance for gear that a druid can wear still has a minimum arcane spell fail.

I have another option using an item from ultimate equipment that for some reason is not listed on the srd equipment list, but using enchanted clothing with no ac, no max dex, and no spell fail/skill check would let me work in the options I want.

bracers have a limitation of not allowing cost only armor enchantments, only those that are a plus cost and it maxes at 8 instead of 10 pluses.

I may have some wrong as it was built about 5 times with other set ups as a test bed. All good points on spell zapping her, she would fall out the sky with a good zap. :)

I did not think you could apply 'run' to flight.

When you say Mark 1, do you mean mach 1? Speed of sound? Which is something like 768 mph, or 1126 fps. Or 6756 feet per round.

your speed is about on par for most birds, from what I could find online.

Q,

We have one Mystic Theurge already, in Sparel. I am not saying you can not do it, but how are you going to be different, aside from Druid casting, of course?

ye I got that all wrong, :( me bad

Isn't that like asking how any two characters of the same class would be different? Different spells, different tactics, different choices. And my wizard abilities are secondary to the druidic.

AT this level, and with HOPF, filling the four basic rolls is no longer a requirement to completing any issue that comes up. I am often surprised when I see epic characters that are not working to cover their weaknesses, and quite frankly, it's a lot easier for a caster to figure out how to get past a locked door than it is for a rogue to instantly travel hundreds of miles.

Since you mentione Sparel, I looked at his sheet to see what he was doing differently. I already know my play style differs from his in the game texts that I have been keeping up with.

And in this case, his HOPF's and mine are much different. (Though it does look like one of us misread spell shifting. Where I see that it caps at two spells per level, I assume that you can't replace a 3rd level pattern spell with a 4th level pattern spell.) It also looks like he used the full 25 pts on his physical attributes with mental paragon HOPF, which should have halved his pt buy from 25 to 12.

MY HOPF's are Magic-user druid and wizard, and gestalt rogue. While he took spell shifting, mental paragon, supernatural spell-monster, and magic user(sorcerer). Did I miss that we get four HOPFs?

Akor seems to only have two HOPF's gestalt ranger and prestigious natures warden. Not seeing the third HOPF. I do see that an inquisitor is only a 3/4's Bab so your base attack should only be +15, with +4 from str, how are you getting four attacks? I see that the first two are +30, so haste? not sure how your stated BaB of 13 isn't 15, but 15+4 leaves you +11 to get to a +30 melee. If it's from a special ability (like destruction) it should be listed separately or noted in a tactics section. Your sheet is the least transparent of the lot.

@Rosa, I see you took mental paragon for your stats. Since this is a 25 pt build, that would leave you with 12 pts to build your physical stats, I don't see you having spent those.

if you take a mental/physical paragon HOPF it does say round up. so youd get 13pts to build the other half of your stats

If you look under equipment, you'll see that Demonwrack is a Speed weapon.

Also, while it is true I did not list out my three HOPF, if you paid attention, you would see that I have both Inquisitor spells and Ranger spells. Clearly, that would mean my 3rd HOPF would be Magic User(Ranger)

Akor was originally made at 18th level, which is where the +13 BAB is from. I apparently forgot to update his CS there.

My attacks with Demonwrack use the Guided property, which again, if you looked on at my equipment you would see. Granted, it doesn't tell you what said property does, but a quick google search reveals that it adds my Wis mod to attacks and damage.

Its interesting to note that, upon my asking to make sure you and Sparel are different enough to not step on each others toes which I have seen plenty of GMs do here on the boards, you decide to dissect everybody's CS.

Thank you for the clarification.

It was my understanding that this was a community dm thiing. Maybe I am ggetting tired of my character getting disected, and this one hasn't even been posted yet, but i am not seeing the same scrutiny on others.

I don't go looking, until I am pointed. In this case you asked me to compare my concept to another character, which required me to look at, which then led me to htink of what the other characters were doing.

I dont see yu assking rosa and sparel why they are both clerics and how they are going to differentiate.

I think it would have been different had you asked after I had the character posted, again.

The original recruitment was open and was open to various character types. I don't recall seeing any discussion that characters needed to play different roles, but that they could play what they wanted.

How is asking you how you plan to make sure you're going to be different from the other Mystic Theurge "dissecting your character?"

Rosa and Sparel are two vastly different characters, and they were approved under Dogblade. Who isn't here any more. I am currently the acting GM, and I just want to make sure we all players are different enough from each other so they don't step on each others toes.

If Tenro told me he was going to make a tiefling divine caster, I would ask him the same thing.

I am just trying to make this game the best it can be, considering I(and the rest of us) have been forced into GMing this much more than we had planned.

As for asking before you post the character, what's wrong with checking before you do all the work? It would suck if you or anybody ended up being too close to another and had to redo a 20th level character...

By the way, please note I am not singling you out, I have already discussed Tenro's character, to make sure he wouldn't ruin our game, as apparently many Summoner/Synthesists can.

ok guys lets not get all mad about this. It IS just a game.

also should have my new character finished today, i have a few errands to run but they shouldnt take all day. plus the bar i go to on my days off is closed tonight so that's off the table haha

I have a bonus feat post 20th level, which i notated as such. I used it for a HOPF feat.

Before my comments I would just like to say I just want to say, I feel privileged to be in a game with such respected and experienced players/GMs, Thats no Flim-flam I mean it, you guys I known and respected here and I am leaning a lot both in style and Game skill.

I also now know others are keeping an eye on this thread, as we are I think now the highest level game on the boards,

20th + HOPF + Mythic (YIKES most GM and playes would Run a mile)

Thats got eyes looking at us, but on post count but on Quality of payers/GMs(us) and complexity of game.

GM-ness
We lost our GM, he tuck one look at the 20th level combat and ran, I don't blame him/her one bit I would do the same. Its hours of work, but unlike most games we as players wanted to keep this going and see just how it could work.

So the GM Baton of power was made. (not new Idea)
just each player would do a bit as GM and hand over to the next.
over all game Ideas would come out in game and tag things to they had some form of connection. This seems to be working. Right Now the GM Baton of power is in Monkeygod's hands. So we have to respect him as GM. But more than that, we have to respect the fact hes putting the time and work in to be GM in a 20th + HOPF + Mythic Game.
If he told me Rosa was dead and I had to make a new PC now I would do it because of that respect I have for him putting that work in.
Simple as that.

There is another thing, this is a mad game but as others are looking on its also a test bed at the very highest end of the game system. Others are looking to us to see IF and HOW it can be done. So we need to building things that stretch the system in my view, but with out braking it. PCs, NPCs alike. So making things like NPC bad guys just like the NPC bad guy we just fast is not doing that, but also, making a PC like another PC is I feel missing an opportunity to show others what can be done at this level.

What I am saying is I feel we have a responsibility to use our skills and experience (you guys have far more than me) show how things can work at this level.

Player+GM to Rules
Players to Players
Gm to Playesr
NPC, to players and GM

This is hard I know and its asking a lot, we do after all just want to play a game and have fun, but when you have players who have been around a bit, you can and should do more.

Well thats my feelings guys
I have no idea if it helps.

GM Spugly

Before my comments I would just like to say I just want to say, I feel privileged to be in a game with such respected and experienced players/GMs, Thats no Flim-flam I mean it, you guys I known and respected here and I am leaning a lot both in style and Game skill.

I also now know others are keeping an eye on this thread, as we are I think now the highest level game on the boards,

20th + HOPF + Mythic (YIKES most GM and playes would Run a mile)

Thats got eyes looking at us, but on post count but on Quality of payers/GMs(us) and complexity of game.

GM-ness
We lost our GM, he tuck one look at the 20th level combat and ran, I don't blame him/her one bit I would do the same. Its hours of work, but unlike most games we as players wanted to keep this going and see just how it could work.

So the GM Baton of power was made. (not new Idea)
just each player would do a bit as GM and hand over to the next.
over all game Ideas would come out in game and tag things to they had some form of connection. This seems to be working. Right Now the GM Baton of power is in Monkeygod's hands. So we have to respect him as GM. But more than that, we have to respect the fact hes putting the time and work in to be GM in a 20th + HOPF + Mythic Game.
If he told me Rosa was dead and I had to make a new PC now I would do it because of that respect I have for him putting that work in.
Simple as that.

There is another thing, this is a mad game but as others are looking on its also a test bed at the very highest end of the game system. Others are looking to us to see IF and HOW it can be done. So we need to building things that stretch the system in my view, but with out braking it. PCs, NPCs alike. So making things like NPC bad guys just like the NPC bad guy we just fast is not doing that, but also, making a PC like another PC is I feel missing an opportunity to show others what can be done at this level.

What I am saying is I feel we have a responsibility to use our skills and experience (you guys have far more than me) show how things can work at this level.

Player+GM to Rules
Players to Players
Gm to Playesr
NPC, to players and GM

This is hard I know and its asking a lot, we do after all just want to play a game and have fun, but when you have players who have been around a bit, you can and should do more.

Well thats my feelings guys
I have no idea if it helps.

GM Spugly

I concur.

uppps edit to may my point better sorry Sparel, but its the same thing just more words

uppps edit to may my point better sorry Sparel, but its the same thing just more words

Edited. ;-)

well my first char was also approved by the original dm, but then refused by the other players. So I am making another character that I want to play? Are you now saying that I have to make a non-caster because everyone else is a caster?

How are we getting post 20 feats? So if I can work out getting a feat at 20th level I can take a fourth HOPF? I don't recall seeing that in the recruit or discussion thread. I see where he stated he was doing it, I don't see an approval for it. I also see where he asked if he could take discoveries based on CL instead of wizard level, which is adding abilities to MT (it doesn't look like he actually did this, though I still don't know where his 20th lvl bonus feat came from. Here is a quote from the original DM on 9/30/2012 "Yes your 20th bonus may be any of the discoveries but may not be an additional HOPF."

You ask why I'm defensive? Because I keep getting flak about my build(s) and I am not seeing the same on others. You tell me that playing a Sharn is overpowered, but four HOPF's isnt? I upped the HD on the Sharn by 4 without increasing abilities to equalize. My current build has stats that are not much lower than the Sharn was, and that's with a 40 RP race (which is equal to 4 CR as it is)

I don't recall anything that said optimizing was bad and make poorly made characters either (no offense to anyone playing). The original DM did state on 10/1/12 "You can play whatever type of character you wish, however, some effort should be made to integrate your character into the Forgotten Realms setting."

Now the players stated they didn't like my playing a modified Sharn, but the DM stated "Basically you shouldn't have anything that is epic level like a solar or a great wyrm but all non epic material is open. In general what I would like you to shoot for is maybe half a dozen high level minions ( a pit fiend, an adamatine golem, a couple NPCs in the late teen levels, etc.)and a big horde of lower level mooks to serve you." So I see no reason in having a handful of Sharn working for me anyway, assuming I do a halfway decent job of writing them into the background, playing them well, and not stepping on the toes of other players. The GM then said "Recruitment will actually be open even after the game is in full swing, I plan on leaving the door open to anyone who wants to join at anytime." This was on 10/2/12.

Since then, the original GM has disappeared, and there has been much discussion on how the GMing will work thereafter. It was my understanding that you were taking the reigns for this first episode, but that the players would rotate. Am I to assume then that as each player takes the GM rod they will be doing their own critique on characters? I accepted a player consensus that they did not want me to play a Sharn. I have spent numerous hours coming up with another character, carefully checking and reviewing that my build was legal and correct based on the rules set forth in the discussion and recruitment boards. So expecting that each player will be doing a round of critiquing doesn't make sense.

It sounds like perhaps there are conflicting gaming styles at play here. If its not fun (and it sounds like you may be leaning that way) then that's cool. Not everyone likes playing the same way.

Personally as soon as games stop being fun I bow out. It's happens. Monkeygod has seen it and can attest to it.

This is just my take on things, no idea if anybody else agrees or not. I am giving my personal view:

This game is still in its infancy. We have only 3 of the 5 PCs together. One of them made an "appearance" but has since decided to remake his character entirely, to better fit with the mythic rules.

I get that your original PC was approved by the GM, but perhaps he didn't have as a clear a grasp of the rules as the rest of us. After all, we're here, he is not. Also, it wasn't just playing a Sharn that was the problem, rather the entire build that caused the issues.

Now, all I have asked was to make sure you and Sparel are different enough for you two to not step on each others toes. Is that really that big of a deal? I haven't critiqued anything nor have I or anybody else given you flak about it. Show me where that's happened and I'll address it.

In your original post, you gave me a great response and had that been all, it would have been over. But then you went ahead and started poorly criticizing my PC, and things got worse from there.

We all want to make this as great a game as possible, so work with me here. What is truly the problem?

Just to make clear form my point of view, Please at any time look of over my PC build and if its broken or I have thing wrong bring it to my notice, on the boards, I want to know so I will lean its that simple.

Q I know it may seem frustrating, two builds and both questioned, hell I would be upset, but things have to fit, that should always be the starting point, The Sharn was way over powered v the rest of the party and hats off to you, that was dropped, this new build is so tight a fit one player is saying its a close fit to them.

This takes be make to the same point before, we are testing at meta high level here and so having two PCs so close misses an opportunity to push things. Would it be so hard to shift some things in your build into areas that have not been done by other players here?

well thats my view guys

Just to make clear form my point of view, Please at any time look of over my PC build and if its broken or I have thing wrong bring it to my notice, on the boards, I want to know so I will lean its that simple.

Q I know it may seem frustrating, two builds and both questioned, hell I would be upset, but things have to fit, that should always be the starting point, The Sharn was way over powered v the rest of the party and hats off to you, that was dropped, this new build is so tight a fit one player is saying its a close fit to them.

This takes be make to the same point before, we are testing at meta high level here and so having two PCs so close misses an opportunity to push things. Would it be so hard to shift some things in your build into areas that have not been done by other players here?

well thats my view guys

Actually, that's not at all what's going on here. Nobody is accusing Q of building the same character, a similar character or anything else. He has not posted a build, thus, we have no idea what he's PC will be like.

All that I said, was "We have one Mystic Theurge, how is yours gonna be different"

It would be like if this was an AP recruitment and two players said they wanted to play fighters, one using a longsword, the other an axe. Would it not make sense for the hypothetical GM to say "Hey guys, don't mind you both submitting PCs for my game, but please make sure you guys don't make characters too alike each other"??

That's pretty much all that I have done here.

I stand corrected Monkeygod you'er right, sorry guys

still working on my new character. turns out i wanted a lot more feats than i could get since i probably cant pick up the fighter levels i was looking for.

EDIT: i was gonna take healing factor but i decided to drop it to pick up Gestalt: Fighter. i wanted way more feats than i had slots for so i figure using one HOPF to pick up 6 bonus combat feats isn't such a bad deal

I guess I just got bent over asking me how they were going to be different rather than asking that I make sure to make mine different.

Still haven't seen anything about the fourth HOPF though.

I already clarified that twice now. Again, I have a bonus feat from my class that I received post 20. Dog blade confirmed that HOPF's were epic feats.