[ACG][OutPost I]Hawkmoon269's Season of Plundered Tombs Table 3 (Inactive)

Game Master Hawkmoon269

So many fun choices!
There are 7 Boon 3s: Weapon, Spell, Item x2, Ally x2, Blessing.
Honestly, I‘d be happy with any 2 of them, so I’ll pick through whatever’s left.

Can Cogsnap finally take Boon 3s, having completed 8 scenarios with the party? If so, I’d suggest offering VampByDay 1st and 2nd upgrade picks, for having to be patient while catching up.

Qualzar definitely wants Kafar :)
Not really any interest in Nefti the Bard.

3-3C reward: 1d20 ⇒ 10
Nope

Oh, absolutely! Consider all of my picks to be of lower priority than VampByDay's.

Boon: 1d20 ⇒ 14

Didn't see the other reward so here are my other priorities but they are flexible.

Weapon 3: 1d1000 ⇒ 313 Stronger weapon that can boost my WIS/PER checks.
Item 3: 1d1000 ⇒ 355 Item to examine and rearrange top 3 of a deck.
Ally 3: 1d1000 ⇒ 54 Recharge to boost RAN/DEX/PER.

Boon from 3-3C?: 1d20 ⇒ 1

Daddy needs a new pair of boons: 1d20 ⇒ 13
Just as an FYI, I'm super busy today, so I won't be able to look through my deck and figure out what I'm going to keep until late tonight. Sorry!

So, after some time, I think I'm going to go with my card feat as Item, Getting Noxious bomb back in my deck (AGIAN, ugh)

As for my card upgrades . . . that's where I'm stuck. I think I'll replace Clockwork Butterfly with ALLY 2 (Flensing Jelly)
As for the bonus deck upgrade . . . I just can't justify NOT going with the twitch tonic (Item 3). I tried really hard to resist the cheese. I did. I held out for a good 8 seconds, I swear.

So Replace the Nosious Bomb with Twitch Tonic.

So far, then, the loot distribution is as follows:

Cogsnap:

Please note that I'm going to be travelling tomorrow through Monday. I'll still have access, but my updates may be more irregular, and I'll still be prioritizing AoA.

Could we get the Forgotten Pharaoh Cultist card text, for the Lamia Sister summon?

It'll depend on my trader options, but I'm leaning toward forgoing Neferekhu this scenario. No immediate need for WIS/Knowledge, and higher need for Remove Curse handling electricity-induced curses.

Looks like this is one of the lucky broken campaigns.

I'll put that in the scenario update.

Qualzar will take both loot spells Remove Curse and Elemental Treaty, so Estra should adjust her deck.

Rules question: how does Chain Lightning interact with the Towering Obelisk?

After playing a boon that has the Electricity trait, you may place it on top of your deck.

For your combat check, display this card next to your deck to use your Arcane skill + 3d6. While displayed, you may use the result of this check for any combat check you attempt at this location.

At the end of the turn, if you do not have the Arcane skill, banish this card; otherwise, discard it, or you may succeed at an Arcane 12 check to recharge it instead.

Ie, if Chain Lightning was previously displayed, and I choose to reuse the result of a previous check, could I then topdeck the Chain Lightning?

Good question. I'd be tempted to rule that you can't, since that second paragraph (describing what happens at the end-of-turn) is not you 'playing' the card, by the definition of play (which basically requires you to display, reveal, recharge, discard, bury, banish or otherwise manipulate a card for an effect).

You could probably topdeck it rather than display it as soon as you use it on the first instance, but it won't be displayed for the rest of your turn then.

All in all, I'll step aside to Hawkmoon on this, and I'm very curious as to his response myself.

I feel like Chain Lightning should work similarly to Caustic Fog? But I was admittedly confused whether using Caustic Fog counted as playing it.

Display this card. While displayed, you may add 1d8 and the Acid trait to a combat check by a character at your location; you may play another spell on that check

When you use the power on it to apply the prior result to a later check, you are playing it again. So you could place it on top of your deck at that point. You can not place it on top of your deck related to the recharge check.

Displayed boons are played when you display it and when you choose to activate it. You choose to activate Chain Lightning if you decide to apply it to a later check. So you are playing it then.

Choosing to activate a power on a displayed card also counts as playing it.

There's no way around it, I need clarification again on this, because I feel like I'm being told contradictory things and this is pretty essential to the functioning of numerous cards - including cards I intend to have in my character deck.

Display this card. While displayed, you may add 1d8 and the Acid trait to a combat check by a character at your location; you may play another spell on that check. After that check, you are dealt 1 Combat damage.

When you use the power on it to apply the prior result to a later check, you are playing it again. So you could place it on top of your deck at that point. You can not place it on top of your deck related to the recharge check.

Displayed boons are played when you display it and when you choose to activate it. You choose to activate Chain Lightning if you decide to apply it to a later check. So you are playing it then.

MM Rulebook p8 wrote:

Choosing to activate a power on a displayed card also counts as playing it.

You see, I've been endlessly confused by this. Are you certain that if the first sentence of a card is just "display this" then it counts as playing it? Because whilst that makes intuitive sense to me - and appears to be the intent some of the time, like for Tower Shields - it doesn't seem to be the intent all of the time, and doesn't necessarily remain consistent with the definition of playing a card (which requires you to manipulate the card to have an outcome, which is why recharging a magical armor during your hand reset phase is not 'playing' an armor).

If displaying it as per the first sentence of "Display this card", such as Toxic Cloud said, doesn't that directly contradict your previous ruling made here that says you can display Caustic Fog when you get into combat, and then also use its power? That sounds like playing 2 spells for one check, based on what you're saying here about displayed boons being played when you display them, and also played when you 'activate' them.

(For the record, I've read and re-read the rules a lot of the time, and I believe that a lot of "Display" spells are either mis-templated or actually have to be displayed before you even start exploring, which makes a huge fraction of them absolute junk, including Caustic Fog. Hence why I brought up the conversation topic when using Caustic Fog earlier in this adventure.)

(Also note that if the first sentence of these, like Caustic Fog's "Display this card.", is not considered playing a card, then that solves the issue... though raises new questions as to what are the timing limitations between using a card like that if it's not considered 'playing' a boon in the first place?)

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Regarding the scenario, it didn't quite click that the Sandstorms were in addition to the blessing deck blessings, rather than replacing them as is more common. That means we actually have 20% more turns in this scenario, so it may be worth intentionally conserving cards and exploring slower than usual, to make up for the serious damage threatened by the Lightning Storm sooner or later.

I would agree that the display cards are a bit of a problem. The way I treat them is based on what has been stated in the forums as much as it is on what is in the rulebook. I think maybe the best place where any of this is explained is in this post. Vic says you can play Rage outside of an encounter or inside of an encounter.

I tend to general see it as if they read "Display this card to gain this effect:..." instead of just "Display this card." It isn't what they really say, but it is the only way to understanding displaying them as a power in and of itself (performing an action with a card to gain an effect).

As for why it isn't playing 2 spells, well, that is because it is only 1 spell. You can kind of make the argument you are playing it twice. But I see it as more that you are completing the play of it if you display and activate it all in one step.

So, in summary:
1. If a card says "Display this card." Displaying it is playing it.
2. If you choose to activate a power on a displayed card, you are playing it.
3. You may display such a card in an encounter as long as the effect you will gain relates to the step of the encounter.
4. If such a card is displayed during an encounter that requires you to choose to activate it, you must choose to activate it so that it relates to the step of the encounter. Doing so does not count as playing it a second time in the same step.

Again, I understand the confusion. I think if you want to try to get a response from Vic or Mike or someone on the rules forum, it would be worthwhile.

VampByDay:
Qualzar has a Remove Curse available! I’d have used it on Cogsnap before end of turn, assuming you want a full hand?

Also, note that the Lightning Storm moves to a random location after it hits someone, which might have affected whether and where you moved? Hopefully you don't hit the 1/6 chance of it following you.

Hawkmoon:

As for why it isn't playing 2 spells, well, that is because it is only 1 spell.

This might be my favorite PACG ruling.

Thanks for the cohesive ruling, Hawkmoon!

Just a couple of notes.

Yeah. The Rage thread is a bit of a headache to read. I cringed when I linked to it. So, the Rage FAQ was because it also requires the character you play it on to do something to make it meaningful: they have to bury a card. So the FAQ was to get around the "affecting the situation rule".

RULES: AFFECTING THE SITUATION

In some situations, you are limited to playing cards or using powers that affect or otherwise relate to the current situation. In these cases, the things you do cannot require anyone to do something else for your action to be meaningful—the things you do must directly affect the situation.

Without saying you could play it during an encounter, you couldn't because it would have required someone else to do something to make playing it meaningful. The FAQ wasn't about addressing that you can't play a "display this card" during an encounter.

The "using the same card twice" is about revealing cards. There is a rule about only using a card's power once per check or step. But I really don't think you are playing it twice. I think you are completing the power. Which is what the rules instruct you to do:

When a card has multiple powers, you must choose

one of them, and you must do everything that power says when possible.

Granted, these cards don't have multiple powers, but I think the "do everything that power says" part has to be true of cards that have one power just as much as ones that have multiple powers. And that is what I think you are doing when you play a "display this card" kind of card during an encounter. You are gaining the effect from displaying it and you must do everything it says, which includes using that effect.

You're explicitly not allowed to re-use the same card in a check, which is why two cards like Belt of Incredible Dexterity don't infinitely combo back and forth for infinite Dexterity. (And, as far as I know, why you can't both reveal and recharge Deliquescent Gloves for its power).

Is same *card*, different *power* not okay? (eg Yewstance’s Delinquent Gloves example; or armors like Buccaneer’s Breastplate or Snakeskin Tunic.) I thought that you’re explicitly not allowed to reuse the same *power* in a check, which is what prevents the infinite Belts of Dexterity.

Hawkmoon's points are exceptionally compelling, as always.

@EmpTyger:
I'm certain that the same card, different power is not okay. It's been explicitly called out, for example, that if you reveal Snakeskin Tunic (or another armor) to bolster your combat check, then fail that combat check, then you cannot use that armor (or any armor) to prevent the damage, as you've used an armor for that check already.

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Again, as for the ongoing scenario....

I mixed up the scenario rule, slightly - certainly not 1/3 odds of hitting one of us, thankfully. I thought it always went to an occupied location for a minute there, and I was kicking myself for taking Elemental Treaties and Armor rather than Compasses.

I think that Lightning Storm is at Shifting Dunes, not Towering Obelisk. Where Estra is too. So, will have to play Dimension Leaping by ear, depending on what happens with the Lightning Storm. Could go pass off Find Traps to Estra, could try to handle Cogsnap's Memories of Violence, could stay put.

Ughhh this sucks on so many levels. My Elemental Treaty being misused, and now that Sandstorm is putting me at the mercy of Lightning Storm when I'm out of means to protect myself. Unless I roll a 4 I'm going to lose some or basically all of my hand and get cursed.

On the plus side, I can at least wipe my Curse out with Mask of the Forgotten Pharaoh, but it's looking like my next turn will be a wash.

Cogsnap:
That Memories of Violence is harsh. If you want to move to Estra's location then do feel free to do so, and I'll clear it off you by defeating it at the start of my turn. Even if I fail, I think I'll finally use my Faction Boon to clear it off if need be.

Just indicating that you can't put a liquid on Canteen if you're only discarding it. Canteen only captures liquids that would be banished.

Your update still listed Cleric of Nethys in your hand.

I'm on mobile right now; will hopefully be taking my turn tonight (in my timezone).

So there are Sandstorms at the start of both Skizza's and my turns, and it's been too long a day for me to try to figure this out tonight.

Ah bugger...I tend to not even glance at the blessing unless I am about to use one. Time to figure out what to do with that turn.

I parsed the info for mine and it did not change my turn luckily.

Not quite no change, unless "When your turn begins" means something different to "At the start of your turn" (Can I get clarification from the BR on that?)...

By being moved to the Shifting Dunes as soon as he advanced the blessings deck, Skizza would have been forced to shuffle his Scarab Buckler back into his deck from the location power, which would have changed his turn by removing his ability to use it.

Yeah, from my reading of it since advancing the blessings deck is the first part of a turn in the rulebook it has already begun and then it only calls out "At the start of your turn effects" to happen after that. Looks like it does need a BR clarification and clarification for the rulebook or errata for the locations worded that way.

I rolled for the next sandstorm. (Without foreknowledge I'd have used Dimension Leap on Skizza's turn to escape the Lightning Storm, so I cast it.)

I had my doubts for a while, particularly when comparing the luck of my Poog character with Estra, but I'm now 100% convinced.

Estra is my unluckiest PFSACG character, by a strong margin.

"When your turn begins" should actually be "at the start of your turn".

Alright. I will retcon my use of Scarab Buckler in a moment.

ANOTHER Sandstorm? Well at least we've cleared most of them from the blessings deck, and since we had them in addition to the normal 30 blessings we're still left with a bunch more turns than usual.

Also, note that Elemental Treaty is displayed at the Sulfur Pits, which isn't on the scenario update yet.

Also, does anyone have a strong desire for a Blessing 3, given that one was examined and shuffled in? (And whilst I'd like a Spell 3, not enough to spend a die bump for it, but thank you to the GM for the offer!) Estra herself will take it as a low-ish priority, but I'd like to get an idea as to what demand there is.

Sorry, completely missed that it was my turn. It’s been a week. I’ll post as soon as I can.

So, referring to my last turn, is there a strict rulebook paragraph or FAQ that covers my specific actions?

I wanted to recharge the Djinn's Favor Amulet to protect me from Acid Damage, particularly as doing so would also heal me. But I only took 1 Acid damage, and that was reduced to 0 by Elemental Treaty. Can I still reduce it further, or can I play my Djinn's Favor Amulet 'before' Elemental Treaty makes any modification?

I'm still taking Acid damage for certain (just like Radovan's "When you are dealt X damage, display a monster from the box" power still works even though he reduced that element's incoming damage to 0 - being "Dealt" damage and "Discarding cards" to damage are two different things, after all).

Per Hawkmoon’s earlier explanation, I would think that works?

At that point, any rules about the damage kick in. So, the scenario power increased it by 1 (1+1 = 2). Elemental Treaty reduces it by 1 (2-1=1). (Thanks to the order of operations you can apply those in any order really.) And you could of course play other cards to reduce it as well.

Between healing 5 and pulling a masterwork thieves' tools I went ahead and explored in howling sands. Closed it out but feeling skinny again so may not do much in the upcoming turns.

That is indeed a terrible trap. Qualzar is not sticking around to fight it!

That STR 8 check needed for the villain is going to be tricky for any of us. Estra has the best chance, but unfortunately no one is currently in position to tempclose the Windswept Chasm.

I'm afraid I don't have time to post and I will be travelling for a bit over two days. If the team wants to keep the game moving, please feel free to bot me, otherwise expect me to post late Friday for most of you (US-time).

Estra has Honaire in her discard pile, and just cast her cure spell... but she can still pass the Strength check with the help of her start-of-turn 'exploration'-like power.

For the time being, though, she has no means of combat in hand, so I would anticipate that Estra goes to the Windswept Chasm, examines with her ability, explores if it's safe to do so, and then uses her Lithomancy Stones for an Augury. I'll try to discard some cards to draw up some blessings - it may be better for someone to just try to brute-force the Strength 8 check with blessings than wait for Estra again.

I think it’s Estra’s turn?
Reminder to everyone to be very careful about exploring in the Windswept Chasm, because of that Rolling Sphere.

Yep, I didn't get to post last night after I got home due to other constraints, but taking my turn now.

In case it got lost over the holiday: it's Skizza's turn!

Really don't feel like it's worth risking that Rolling Sphere. No help for the STR check. Looks like it's up to Cogsnap!

So far so good, though I would have strongly recommended that Skizza used Good Omen to add 6 to his check to acquire the Blessing of Isis, because I don't think that spell is going to have any other use (as there's no chance of us having to make any closing checks anymore).

(Also, I'm not sure how Skizza encountered Blessing of Isis from rolling 2 on a 1d6. At that time, there were 6 cards in the location deck, not counting the Sandstorm Roc on the bottom; 4/5/6/8/9. So Blessing of Isis should've been first in the sequence, since cards 1/2/3 were all moved to the bottom or banished/acquired by then.)

(In order to clear these things up, I'd appreciate a scenario update once the GM has time.)

Oh I see what I did wrong now. I got confused and counted from the location again without thinking to remove the monster I encountered. And I completely missed Good Omen. Sorry.

Not a big deal - an honest mistake makes it just about as random as anything else. :)

Sorry everyone. I got busy with holiday stuff. Updated posted. FYI: I will be at PAX Unplugged Friday through Sunday. I should be able to get an update in either in the morning or evening each day though.

Just an FYI, next week (starting this Sunday and going ‘till next sunday) is Winterfest in my area, a week-long IRL PFS/SFS gaming thing where there are games every night and also during the day on the weekends. Pay $1 to reroll any d20 and all proceeds go to Toys for Tots. Long story short, I may be slow posting because most of my free time will be taken up with that. I’ll try and keep up though.