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anything touching blade brush is unclear how it is to be handled as there is no clear common consensus as to how that feat works, thus no clear consensus as to how other things interact with it.
see, there's lots of contention if slashing grace even works with the glaive because of this feat. So that could be totally impossible.
Also, we have guidance that something that increases the str damage doesn't always carry over to the dex swapping (even for the unchained rogue this is true, though they do get 1.5 dex when two handing, but agile doesn't give 1.5 dex when two handing), so even if slashing grace worked, you might not be getting 1.5 dex to damage with it via slashing grace.
Some say you still use 2 hands, while some say you count as only one so no x1.5 cause it's counting as a one handed, which also means no improved power attack.
The feat was CLEARLY meant to work with swashbuckler's precise strike deed since the author told us that was the reason for the feat, which as written it does do. What the author hasn't said and what we have no guidance on is every other question about it.
It's the 'treat as one handed' and 'as if you were not making attacks with your off-hand' parts. So it isn't clear if it's used as a two handed weapon or uses two hands.
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I don't think it is that confusing.
Bladed Brush doesn't let you treat a glaive as a one handed weapon. It lets you treat it as a one handed weapon for feats and class abilities. However, it doesn't force you to (so you can use power attack as normal for a two handed weapon) and it doesn't even have any language that prohibits you from treating it as a one handed weapon for one feat, and two handed weapon for another at the same time.
So it is going to use two hands when making attacks as normal, but you can use precise strike just fine.
The only possible question with slashing grace is the very last part 'any time another hand is otherwise occupied.' While bladed brush lets you pretend that you second hand isn't using it for making an attack, it doesn't actually make that hand be empty (you still couldn't cast a spell with that hand, or use spell combat for example.) So in reality, you have both hands on the weapon, you are using both hands to make the attack. For slashing grace, you can treat it as if that hand wasn't making an attack, but since bladed brush doesn't actually say you can treat the hand as if it was empty, it fails on that very last line.
Personally, I think the intent of what slashing grace is trying to do is pretty clear, i.e. preventing 'extra attacks' via other weapons or spell combat or anything like that, and bladed brush doesn't violate that, so I would allow it, but technically that last line in slashing grace is a problem for the combo.
By the "how is this intended to work" it's pretty clear that Dave Justus is in the right on Slashing Grace. Slashing Grace (and its kin) do not want you to use two weapon fighting, natural attacks, spell combat, etc. to generate extra attacks. The concern with "dex to damage" historically is "making a ridiculous number of attacks".
If you are using slashing grace with something and not creating extra attacks beyond your normal progression (plus haste) you probably should, RAI, be able to use slashing grace.
But this is the sort of thing you want to talk about with the GM beforehand.
As the name suggests I suppose. Do these feats work together? A glaive is a 2 handed weapon, blade brush lets it be considered a one handed piercing weapon/slashing weapon and makes it finessable. Could you combine this with Slashing grace AND power attack? Basically slashing grace typically doesnt allow you to have a weapon in your off hand but i think this is negated by blade brush when using a glaive as its technically a two handed weapon and no where does it say you must use the glaive in one hand only.
No.
Power attack lets you add 1/2 str to your attack but since slashing grace goes off of dex damage would power attack transfer to dex damage?
No.
As far as I can tell the three feats do work together, but slashing have will only work if you're treating the glaive as a one handed weapon and using if in one handed, and because you're treating the glaive as a one handed weapon, you only get the one handed power attack ratio, (1:2) instead of the two hashed ratio (1:3).
Also... power attack doesn't affect your strength to damage at all. Not sure what you're meaning with that
From Bladed Brush: "When wielding a glaive, you can treat it... for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon"
From slashing Grace: "Choose one kind of light or one-handed slashing weapon"
The problem here is that you can't pick glaive with slashing grace as it isn't a light or one-handed slashing weapon; you can treat it like one when you're wielding it, but that doesn't mean all glaives as a kind of weapon, just this one in your hand. IF Bladed Brush read "you can treat glaives..." it would work; it does not.
There's a second argument that can be made to why this doesn't work. Bladed brush's "as if you were not making attacks with your off-hand" doesn't effect slashing grace not working "any time another hand is otherwise occupied", and occupied here includes holding something. (like that glaive you're holding) You cant use your off hand for grace because it's holding your glaive. (obligatory joke about trying to 'say grace'(pray) with a glaive in your hands)
Power attack has nothing to do with your strength score past needing a 13.
IF you mean do you get 1.5*dex damage with the glaive if the above worked, the answer is no, you get +dexterity to damage. When wielding that glaive it's only a one-handed slashing weapon (which would benefit from wielding in two hands to add 1.5*str damage) for feats and class abilities requiring such a weapon. The ability to deal more strength damage in one hand in this case is neither a feat nor a class ability.
However, there is hope! The unchained rogue's 3rd level Finesse training ability doeswork with Bladed brush where slashing grace does not.
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I've got 2 builds for Bladed Brush that work regardless of how you interpret the rules.
3 level dip of Phalanx Fighter while wearing a buckler allows you to wield any polearm one-handed. Combine that with Bladed Brush and Slashing Grace. No more argument over whether your hand its considered occupied for slashing grace.
Or you can go 4 levels of Whirling Dervish Swashbuckler with Bladed Brush, which gets Dex to damage with any weapon it uses Swashbuckler's Finesse with.
Both are full BAB classes so you're not losing out too much by taking them on a martial character.
I've got 2 builds for Bladed Brush that work regardless of how you interpret the rules.
3 level dip of Phalanx Fighter while wearing a buckler allows you to wield any polearm one-handed. Combine that with Bladed Brush and Slashing Grace. No more argument over whether your hand its considered occupied for slashing grace.
Or you can go 4 levels of Whirling Dervish Swashbuckler with Bladed Brush, which gets Dex to damage with any weapon it uses Swashbuckler's Finesse with.
Both are full BAB classes so you're not losing out too much by taking them on a martial character.
But Bladed Brush doesn't make a glaive a scimitar....
anything touching blade brush is unclear how it is to be handled as there is no clear common consensus as to how that feat works, thus no clear consensus as to how other things interact with it.I see, so its a pretty ridiculous feat? XD Well thats ok I suppose. I just figured that the way the game handles two handed weapons and damage should make the answer fairly obvious but it never hurts to have feed back. The crb mentions somewhere that any weapon held in two hands that can be applies strength and a half damage to attacks, power attack also does this for its own effect if the weapon used to power attack is wielded in both hands. So based on the ability of slashing grace, if the glaive now does dexterity damage then it would mean that as its a two handed weapon, the two handing would do dex and a half. atleast thats based on a level of rationality. Though, it doesnt exactly means it works this way. This feat was CLEARLY meant to work with slashing grace but its just a poorly worded feat to be honest.
Basically, a certain portion of the community had a collective spasm when they realized that if Bladed Brush worked for the Swashbuckler + Slashing Grace it would also work for Magus + Spell Combat.
From Bladed Brush: "When wielding a glaive, you can treat it... for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon"
From slashing Grace: "Choose one kind of light or one-handed slashing weapon"
The problem here is that you can't pick glaive with slashing grace as it isn't a light or one-handed slashing weapon; you can treat it like one when you're wielding it, but that doesn't mean all glaives as a kind of weapon, just this one in your hand. IF Bladed Brush read "you can treat glaives..." it would work; it does not.
Easy fix: my character is practicing with his glaive when he learns the feat.
Since the glaive in is his hand at that point in time, he meets the prerequisites. When he's not holding a glaive, his Slashing Grace: Glaive feat stops working.
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Power Attack has no relationship to STR or DEX Mods, it is a scaling bonus.
Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (–50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every 4 points thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the bonus to damage increases by +2. You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.
Its only relationship to STR is that STR 13 or better is required.
Deadly Agility is a 3rd Party feat for Path of War, so might want to check with your GM on how they feel with that.
Zarius, what does treat as a one-handed mean to you then? What purpose does it fill if not this exact situation?
The 3rd level ability granted by the Phalanx Fighter archetype states you can use any polearm as a one handed weapon.
Bladed Brush states you can treat it as a one handed weapon for the sake of prerequisites. But you are still holding a two handed weapon in both hands.
For Spell Combat or Slashing Grace to work with Bladed Brush and a glaive, you want 4 levels of Phalanx Fighter, use a buckler and pick up the Unhindering Shield feat at level 4, which allows your buckler hand to be considered free.
1. Weapon Focus Glaive
1. Bladed Brush
2. Weapon Finesse
3. Shield Focus
4. Unhindering Shield
You can have Slashing Grace online with a glaive (And a buckler), at level 5, even if you are multiclassing magus or whatever.
But this ends up with using one handed weapon bonuses for Power Attack, as you actually use the glaive as a one handed weapon.
I'm not arguing with you, but it seems you didn't at all read the rest of my post before calling me out as incorrect.
It has been outlined what is required to actually use a glaive as a one handed weapon. Which will allow Slashing Grace and or Spell Combat to work without anyone being able to argue.
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Calm down, Hero.
The 3rd level ability granted by the Phalanx Fighter allows you to wield the glaive as a one handed weapon, with a shield or buckler. The end.
Slashing Grace needs a one handed weapon, with a free hand. The end.
Unhindering Shield makes your buckler hand considered to be completely free for all purposes requiring a free hand. The end.
Taking Shield Focus and Unhindered Shield, as a Phalanx Fighter, allows you to use Bladed Brush and Slashing Grace and Spell Combat. The end.
I am not wrong. The end.
Not to sound like an @$$, but I laid out the specific reasons this works inside the post you quoted to say I was wrong, guy.
To the point that a 4th level fighter is the soonest you can even pick up the Unhindering Shield feat. That's why this all works. That's why I'm not wrong.
For the sake of THIS POST, even if you get it to work, Bladed Brush with Power Attack count as a one handed weapon.
I really don't want to sound like an @$$#0[3 but if you want to use Slashing Grace with a glaive via Bladed Brush, that means you have taken 4 levels of Phalnx Fighter, and take Slashing Grace at level 5, no matter what class you want to be in at that time.
I don't know of any other way to blend Bladed Brush and Slashing Grace. I don't think it's possible without the Phalanx Fighter levels.
The good news is that 4 levels of Phalnx Fighter gets you a +2AC from a buckler and Shield Focus, as well as Bladed Brush working with Slashing Grace. And a glaive that you can use as reach or adjacent. And legal access to Spell Combat if you decide to go Magus.
Phalanx Fighter Ex. Actually says:
Phalanx Fighting (Ex)
At 3rd level, when a phalanx soldier wields a shield, he can use any polearm or spear of his size as a one-handed weapon.
This ability replaces Armor Training 1.
So, umm, he can use any polearm as a one handed weapon. Sure, it's just this guy with the ability, but it's also this guy wanting to take the feats requiring a one handed weapon... such as his polearm.
It seems you are intentionally making it impossible for this to work, even though Paizo archetypes allow it to work without a hitch.
ANY time he/she picks up a polearm, it is a one handed weapon for him/her. Therefore, Slashing Grace and Spell Combat and things that require you to have a one handed weapon count, because any time you pick up a polearm, it IS a one handed weapon.
That's how class features work. Otherwise they wouldn't exist.
The weapons rules even have a statement about 'treated as'...
Such as exotic weapons which are 'treated as' or weapons that include 'treated as' in their description...
And the Phalanx Fighter ability in question just flat out says you can use any polearm as a one handed weapon. You pick up a polearm, it's a one handed weapon for you immediately. You are now holding a one handed weapon... yep, it was once a 2H weapon, you're correct, but we did this which is allowed in the game, and now it's a one handed weapon.
Why is this difficult?
It's not like it actually changes anything that will break the game... ever.
A big arms Tiefling can take Slashing Grace with a size large Scimitar, right? But if anyone else grabs that particular scimitar, it's a 2H weapon.
A scimitar is a one handed weapon and qualified for Slashing Grace just fine, right?
So if you have an ability granted by class or race that allows you to use things things when others wouldn't, it still counts, right?
Sure, not everyone counts a size large scimitar, or a glaive, as one handed weapon... But some do...
Bladed Brush is treated as, Phalanx Fighter is YOU CAN ...
And one handed weapon feats ARE available to the select few that find the creative means to use the feats... despite uptight people trying to stand in the way.
You can't apply a feat that requires a one-handed slashing weapon to a weapon that is't considered a one-handed slashing weapon 100% of the time.
Even if you could provide RAW backing your statement in general, which you cannot, it still would not apply to Bladed Brush, which specifically applies to feats.
A character can't use a feat if he loses a prerequisite, but he does not lose the feat itself. If, at a later time, he regains the lost prerequisite, he immediately regains full use of the feat that prerequisite enables.
A character need only qualify for a feat at the time of selection, not 100% of the time. This is no different than a character using a Belt of Giant Strength to qualify for Power Attack.
The best you can manage is to argue Slashing Grace does not function while the character is not holding his glaive, which is a non-issue. The second the character picks his glaive back up, he once more qualifies.
When wielding a glaive, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon ... for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon
Is Slashing Grace a feat [Y/N]
If yes, then the glaive is treated as a one-handed slashing weapon.
If you have an issue with "but it only qualifies while he's wielding it", that is fine. The character picks up his glaive before he makes his feat selection. Just like a character with an 11 STR would don his Belt of Giant Strength prior to taking the Power Attack feat.
Just as a character using a Belt of Giant Strength to qualify for Power Attack looses access to the feat if he takes off his girdle, a person with Slashing Grace looses access to his feat when he is not wielding a glaive. This is a non-issue; the person with Slashing Grace: Glaive is never going to attempt to use the feat when not meeting the prerequisites.
Then why not just give the Phalanx Fighter the Shield Brace feat as a bonus feat? That would allow him to use a polearm and shield.
But they didn't, nor did they use similar wording as the Shield Brace feat.
They instead expressly say that the Phalanx Fighter can use any polearm as a one handed weapon.
For once Paizo was actually pretty clear with their wording.
Weird as it is, through the RAW, Two-Weapon Grace would actually allow for you to 2-hand the glaive and recieve your Dex to damage from Slashing Grace.
Blade Brush allows it to be treated as one handed for feats, so the glaive meets the requirements of the fest, even if it can't use it properly. Two-Weapon Grace lets you apply your Slashing Grace, even if your free hand is otherwise occupied. It comes with the tax feat of TWF for this to work, though I'm sure there's a feat out there to use reach polearms as double weapons which would want TWF anyway to reduce penalties.
Hey, you said they were clear with their wording. You're right about that. At no point does the level 3 class feature of the Phalanx Fighter state anything about it being a one-handed weapon. It is, indeed, explicitly clear. According to the wording of all involved abilities, by absolute RAW, no, Slashing Grace can not be used with a Glaive.
Slashing Grace is a feat.
Bladed Brush very explicitly allows the glaive to treated as a one-handed weapon for feat resolution. This includes Slashing Grace.
With Bladed Brush, as equally as there is the clause of wielding a glaive, there is also the stipulation of for all feats and class abilities that require such clause...
Honestly, I think SOME people just don't want it to work, for whatever unholy reasons...
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I continue to find the, 'just because it is treated as a one-handed weapon to qualify for feats and class abilities that does not mean it can be used with feats or class abilities requiring a one-handed weapon' argument too absurd for words.
Others hold it as holy gospel.
Paizo has answered this in FAQs. They have tried different wording to make it more clear. They have reworded older text to specify that it works... still some people insist that you can never use a feat restricted to one-handed weapons with a two-handed weapon that some ability is allowing you to wield one-handed. I don't see any grounds whatsoever for that position, but still they insist.
Ask your GM. That's really the only correct answer.
Ask your GM. That's really the only correct answer.^ this
But that could be said of almost every question about rules on this forum.
Yeah, but this isn't a settled issue at all. So...
Just ask your GM, be prepared to accept any answer they give.