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Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Java Man wrote:
I somehow never noticed violent display

Violent Display is pretty cool .

But consider how it works. You like sneak up on your opponents, then in your surprise round you get 1 attack on 1 opponent (best with Vital Strike) or pop up amongst several opponents and Great Cleave them. You then get an Intimidate on all opponents within 30'. This will make your opponents Shaken, not Flatfooted. They will be Flatfooted after the 2nd round when you hit them again, using Shatter Defenses. They will then be Flatfooted for your next attack.

I guess you could Full Attack 1 of them. In this scenario, only the first Attack does Sneak Attack Damage, but your second iterative attack on your single opponent will render him Flatfooted for your next Attack.

ViConstantine wrote:
My biggest goal here was how to maxemize my chances of getting sneak attacks with the tools I wanted to use.

So, you want to maximize Greatsword and Sneak Attack as a Human.

ViConstantine wrote:
I wasn't aware at first that tripping didn't deny a Dex bonus so I swapped it for dirty trick as mentioned by someone above.

Both Dirty Tricks and Tripping Feats build off of Combat Expertise or Dirty Fighting. Even though the Prone Condition does not deny your opponent his Dex Mod to AC, it is still brutal. And it can be the springboard for Attacks of Opportunity. Whenever a Prone opponent attempts to get up when you are standing over him, he provokes an Attack of Opportunity, and he can't 5' Step away from you while Prone. If you have Greater Trip, you get an Attack of Opportunity as he goes down, and if you have Vicious Stomp, you get ANOTHER Attack of Opportunity as he goes down, although the VS AoO has to be an Unarmed Strike (unless it doesn't).

But if you have to choose, I'd choose Dirty Tricks. Like you said, you want several ways to lock in your Sneak...

There are a lot of really good options here mentioned, though i dont think you realize that with shatter defenses lets you hit someone as part of a full round attack, the first attack makes them flat footed which means every iterative attack there after for that turn and the next can add sneak attack dice as even in the feat description it mentions that it includes further attacks for even that same turn. Though this whole feat line is only part of the build as a way to start combat if im unable to go first or if im unable to sneak up on an enemy. The rest of what was mentioned seems really helpful though im taking most of it already and dont have room for many more feats if any.


Java Man wrote:

Well, the human bonus is 1/6, not 1/8, but that may not change your thinking. Wouldn't the human skill bonus get you to 7/level anyway?

Try this: if you can take another talent to replace a feat you are taking with standard feats do so. Now in the place of that standard feat take cunning to give you +1 skill point per level. So after 6 levels of fcb you break even. At 7+ levels you either build toward another talent, or get some "free" skills or hp.

Sorry i didnt voice any of these details because at the time i didnt find them to be important. so, im taking the fcb skill points because im using all of the talents that allow me to take feats instead already. The reason why i dont have the ability to gain an additional skill per level from the human ability is actually because i traded out the skilled human ability for dim dweller which on the human gives me +2 stealth, intimidate, and perception while concealed. It also just straight up gives me darkvission at 60 feet as a human and there was literally no way id pass up darkvission as a human.


Java Man wrote:
Are you taking the human FCB for bonus talents?

Im not, the only reason im not is because i couldnt work in a larger int score for the 7 skills i wanted. so once per level i get a skill point. It felt more worth while to have another maxed out skill than to have a net 1 (since to my knowledge we likely arent playing past 15 and the human bonus is 1/8 toward a new talent per level) new talent by level 15


Java Man wrote:

I somehow never noticed violent display, other than killing flourish leading to gruesome slaughter I would rather have violent display, it seems like it will trigger more often.

If you can finagle the pq from a ranger style gang up can help in getting flank, if you have at least 2 other melee types in your group. And maxing acrobatics to help with positioning is of course solid. At the upper levels the Hunter's Surprise advanced talent can be great.

lol, it more or less seems we are on the same wavelength here actually, id love to be able to fit gang up into this build but cant find out how to as ive already gotten so many feats.


ViConstantine wrote:
Java Man wrote:
Also: ranger combat styles (which you can take with slayer talents) will let you skip pq feats. The menacing and underhanded styles particularly might help you with this build.
the underhanded style is actually how i got the dirty trick stuff. Also, thank you for the suggestion of killing flourish, i think its a cool feat but violent display more or less does the same thing for me.


Java Man wrote:
Also: ranger combat styles (which you can take with slayer talents) will let you skip pq feats. The menacing and underhanded styles particularly might help you with this build.

the underhanded style is actually how i got the dirty trick stuff.


I'm always happy to wake up and see a ton of replies on my posts here, that seriously always makes my day, but without sounding like the most stubborn person out there, I'd like to cover some stuff. My biggest goal here was how to maxemize my chances of getting sneak attacks with the tools I wanted to use. I wasn't aware at first that tripping didn't deny a Dex bonus so I swapped it for dirty trick as mentioned by someone above.

My personal reasons for not using two weapon fighting is because I don't like how it feels, I love pathfinder bUT I love it for the options and custmizability, not for its crunch yknow? Two weapon fighting typically has a worse chance to hit and is a massive feat suck, less so for slayers but still when compared to two handed weapons, it gives me way more numbers to keep track of and for my first character I'm almost a year, I'd like to go easy on myself. I'd also rather not play a tengu because I don't want to play one. I had a character in mind who was a human slayer that wields a greatsword, has a shield, mace and longsword for back ups during hunting, and is somehow always doing massive damage per swing because she is more seasoned than the rest of the party and has done this for years (even though she is the same level) she would eventually weild a greatsword of speed (though the boots a re tempting) or the headsman blade for flavor even though her assassination's wouldn't have a high chance until I can get her the proper headband.

I have been propositioned a few more feats that I never knew about and wI'll be looking into though it seems only one person really answered my question and that was the one who mentioned taking the will save feat earlier on since I have low will. I more or less had my kit and feat progression down, but, my real issue was figuring out the most optimal levels to take what feats so I know I can get the most use out of them snice I haven't played in so long. And of course the suggestions of other feats is always helpful, it isn't really what I needed. Though I appreciate every post posted here.


*Khan* wrote:

If your GM uses maps with lots of details, like furniture, columns/pillars, tables, benches and cupboards then consider the feat Press to the Wall.

If you go up that feat chain dont forget step up and strike.

This isnt a character id likely take step up with or its feat chain, but press to the wall does seem like a really cool feat


Arachnofiend wrote:

My advice for consistent sneak attack as a Slayer is... don't worry about it. The Slayer stays competitive because of Studied Target, you don't need to get sneak attack every round and can just see it as bonus damage you get on the occasion you have an opportunity to flank safely.

Since you're already going into charisma and taking Intimidating Prowess I think you'd get a lot more mileage out of the Cornugon Smash+Hurtful package than dumping a ton of feats into sneak attack.

hurtful package?


blahpers wrote:

I'm a fan of the Gang Up method. It works even better for slayers than it does for rogues due to their increased survivability on the front line.

Edit: Nevermind, I see you dumped Int so that's out unless you score a headband or something.

yea im afraid i didnt make any true dump stats because i wanted to be able to have a decent charisma for intimidate and diplomacy since im basically playing a happy and optimistic middle aged mom who decided to become an adventure after losing her daughter and husband. There is also very few uses for int to a slayer past even more skill points and the dc for assassinate though you cant even get it until level 16, though if i had a place to put it in, i would love gang up aha, ive used it before on slayers and think its great. Though im really just looking for a good placement for feats ive taken.


ViConstantine wrote:
So did take a look at the bounty hunter archetype but i cant think of any good reason to take it. You lose earlier slayer talents which are more important to me because i may not be able to play this character for a long time so abilities i can get sooner are better. Losing armor prof for me and not having room to get it back via a feat also makes this far less worth taking. The dirty trick almost looks interesting but if i can already get a sneak attack on them, i wouldnt be interested in using a dirty trick instead.....since id want dirty trick........to get more sneak attacks. However, it is worth noting that i could trade the unbalanced trick for the ranger fighting style 1 underhanded so that i can take improved dirty trick at level 8 instead of improved trip and then get greater dirty trick at level 9


So did take a look at the bounty hunter archetype but i cant think of any good reason to take it. You lose earlier slayer talents which are more important to me because i may not be able to play this character for a long time so abilities i can get sooner are better. Losing armor prof for me and not having room to get it back via a feat also makes this far less worth taking. The dirty trick almost looks interesting but if i can already get a sneak attack on them, i wouldnt be interested in using a dirty trick instead.....since id want dirty trick........to get more sneak attacks.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:

If you are thinking Slayer, have you considered the Bounty Hunter Archetype? They have a Class Ability that is almost as good as Quick Dirty Trick. You can use the Dirty Trick to make your opponent Blind and lock in your Sneak Attack Damage, and if you are up against an opponent with the Blind Fighting Feat or Blindsight, you can play a 2nd Dirty Trick and make them Deaf, too! That should reliably lock in your SAD for just about everybody.

So you are using a Greatsword. I don't really see anything that really takes advantage of Greatsowrd: you get attacks of opportunity through Tripping, that's about it. I'd want to see like Great Cleave and some Vital Strike feats. Can we think of some other ways to get some Attacks of Opportunity? The ones that come to mind involve dipping: how do you feel about that?

Im not interested in vital strike because its a waste of feats. vital striking with sneak attack is not worth the assets. since you only get sneak attack dice for the one attack. sure you do get the highest bab for the one attack however, speed isnt usable with vital strike which means at 15 thats 3 less attacks than full attacking after making an enemy flat footed through any previous means like shatter defenses or by simply flanking them. The reason why i havnt switched to an archetype is because it makes the build slower to get going because the traded slayer talents, however i guess im not against checking out the bounty hunter to see if its worth trying. I don't want to multiclass in the least, slower sneak attack dice progression isnt worth the trouble.


Hey guys, I haven't posted on here in quite a while so I hope i phrase this in a way that makes sense. So im building a two handed fighting Slayer, mostly because i don't like the feel of two weapon fighting and because i didn't want to play an archer this time around.

level 6 start (i have no idea how far we will be playing but i estimate to 15)
18 str
14 dex
12 con
10 int
10 wis
13 charisma (level 4 point goes here)

Both traits are filled

The idea for the character is to try to get sneak attacks with my greatsword of speed (not falcion because i wont be getting the crit feats) as often as physically possible, not only when im able to flank but by manipulating the enemies to help me constantly make them flatfooted so that im able to keep dishing out full round sneak attack damage. I have a vague idea of the feats I want to take and the slayer talents I want but im struggling at what order i should be taking these for the best value. Id like suggestions, currently it looks something like this for me:

1f: Intimidating prowess/power attack (human)
2: Trapfinding
3f: Weapon focus: greatsword
4: Fast stealth
5f: Dazzling display
6: Combat trick: Shatter defenses *Current level*
7f: Violent display
8: Unbalancing Trick
9f: Greater Trip (qualified for by unbalancing trick)
10 Evasion
11f: Improved initiative
12: Surprise attack
13f: Skill focus: stealth
14: Rogue advanced tallent: feat: Accomplished sneak attacker
15: Iron will

If we were to move past 15 id likely get either furious focus, quick draw (i have a longsword and morningstar as back up with a shield), and/or hammer the gap.


SuperBidi wrote:
ViConstantine wrote:
You're aware that an operative trick attack is getting a flat 4d8 to damage on top of base damage, ontop of damage boosts from weapon specialization?

So, with a level 8 small arm, it's 4d8 + 2d6 + 4 (average 29).

The Mechanic with a level 8 heavy weapon does 3d12 + 2d6 + 8 (average 34.5).
And the Mechanic is full bab, not the Operative.
And the Mechanic can shoot as a standard action without losing much damage output.

Are we playing the same game?

1 exocortex mechanics dont have heavy weapon proficiency.....2......they dont have full bab without the aid of an ability that costs a movement action. No, we clearly arent playing the same game.


Pantshandshake wrote:

Not to nitpick, but:

Weapon Specialization+ 1/lvl to damage for small arms

Actually, that's .5 damage/lvl

I'm aware but I thought I typed 1/2lvl not 1/lol my bad


SuperBidi wrote:
ViConstantine wrote:
The question is basically, which class would fit the build concept for a sneaky hacker sniper better? And still be well effective in combat, soldier or operative?

In my opinion, none. And I think it's what everyone points out. You won't get much more than what you already have because your playstyle is not much combat oriented.

Sneaky sniper = low damage. Nothing you can do about that. Damage comes from melee or heavy weapons. Operative don't do much damage. Soldiers do, but they don't use longarms.

For me, if you don't start rethinking your weapon of choice, you won't get more damage.
Something extremely basic would be to go heavy weapons + unwieldy. Then, you will be a sneaky sniper... with an artillery laser :D
For example, you can go to 3d12 damage with an ice launcher of your level, which is a bit better than the 2d6 you get from a corona laser rifle.

If I went operative I'm already not using long arms anymore, we are playing the same game right? You're aware that an operative trick attack is getting a flat 4d8 to damage on top of base damage, ontop of damage boosts from weapon specialization? Sure the sniper isn't an incredibly strong weapon and doesn't get trick attack dice, but I'm not talking the sniper here, I've already mentioned other equipment and the sniper being a secondary for when the need arises. Did you read the posts at all?


Garretmander wrote:
ViConstantine wrote:

The question is basically, which class would fit the build concept for a sneaky hacker sniper better? And still be well effective in combat, soldier or operative?

Operative.

If operative then this is what i came up with

Level 8 Ace Pilot Operative

Str 10

Dex 19

Con 12

Int 18

Wis 12 (14 with my current upgrade that ill be trading out)

Cha 8

Fort: 3

Reflex: 10

Will: 8

Initiative: 11

Bab 6+4+weapon/versatile focus to hit.

Abilities-

Operative Edge +3 to initiative and to all skills during skill checks

Specialization: Hacker- Use a computer check to make a distraction with plus 4 for a trick attack (1 free rank each in comp and engi per level and skill focus in both skills)

Trick attack +4d8

Ace Pilot ability- Theme knowledge +1 to pilot, lonewolf

Evasion

Operative Exploits: Uncanny Mobility, Combat Trick(ct): Versatile Focus, Debilitating Sniper, Uncanny Shooter

Quick movement +10 feet

Weapon Specialization+ 1/lvl to damage for small arms and 1/lvl to sniper damage

Debilitating trick

Specialization exploit: Elusive Hacker

Specialization skill master: Can take 10 on skill focused skills during stressful situations and distractions

Uncanny agility

Triple attack

Feats-

1st: Improved Initiative

Free: Skill focus: Computers and Engineering

2nd: Weapon focus: Small arms

Free: Versatile Focus

3rd: Multi-weapon Fighting

4th: Quickdraw

--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------

My shopping list for new equipment will be this

2 of the strongest small arms I can afford and use with trick shot so nothing unweildy.

The strongest sniper for my level that I can afford.

Heavy bipod for said sniper.

Maybe "called" fusion for my pistols

New computer to hack with (since im losing my custom rig)

Ring of Resistance.

Anyone have anything else to throw in?


Nyerkh wrote:

Computers is all of one skill and one of your tricks so far (aren't you missing one, by the way ?), plus what the exocortex gave you for free. But that's up to you, really. Not liking a class's playstyle happens.

Now, you won't get hugely better at combat, but the gain should be noticeable.
Do keep something to do in ships.
The loss of skills might be painful when going soldier, while operative is the skill-monkeyest there is.

Beyond that, not sure what the question is though, as you seem to have a good handle on the system.

The question is basically, which class would fit the build concept for a sneaky hacker sniper better? And still be well effective in combat, soldier or operative?


HammerJack wrote:
Ah. I'm afraid that a class change won't help much with that. Even a fully optimized soldier is going to have accuracy problems when the dice gods frown too hard.

Well I also would like to change classes in part due to the fact that I have a ton of abilities but am not around computers enough half the time to use them and the gm won't do anything about it, do I'm hoping to switch classes and put more emphasis on combat and have a tiny bit less hacking utility without totally ditching it.


HammerJack wrote:
I am a but confused about you not being able to hit anything, as well. Unless you are always trying to shoot through cover because you are trying to engage from extreme range when you can't get a position that gives you good fields of fire?

Long story short I roll single digits A LOT


Hey guys, so this question needs a little bit of background to be able to answer i feel. So, ive been playing a the exocortex mechanic for a while now (we started at level 4 and are now 8) and ive realized that im not having any fun and the build that I wanted to use so badly really isnt working for me. I still want to do something similar but due to the fact that most of my abilities that i need to set up for combat are all move or standard actions, i cant seem to hit any enemies or dont have the action economy to really use my abilities in conjunction with each other in combat. Typically i find that my allies have already murdered everything before I hit anyone or ive barely wounded an enemy before my pals turn them into mulch.

The idea for my build was a sneaky hacker that hangs back in the back and snipes (with an actual sniper rifle or a longarm (which is what ive been using)) enemies down to aid my party or help take down priority targets after ive already scouted or hacked enemy security.

Out of combat, im fine. My skills are fairly high, my roleplaying isnt suffering or anything, I just find that im borderline useless in combat and was hoping maybe this build would work for another class like the soldier or the operative?

My current android exocortex mechanic looks a little like this

10 str
19 dex
12 con
18 int
12 wis
8 cha

ace pilot exocortex mechanic with 17 computers, 17 engineering, 16 piloting and 18 stealth. My weapon of choice so far has been my carona laiser rifle (or whatever laser rifle i can use for my level) and my feats and abilities i took are something like

skill synergy, improved initiative, deadly aim (which i dont even use since i cant hit), kick up, mechanic trick overcharge, combat trick (move action, target one enemy, full bab vs that enemy), mechanic trick hack directory and mechanic trick improved overcharge.

Is there a way to make a similar build but maybe more effectively as a soldier or operative? My gm wont let me change my equipment until we are back on a planet we can buy stuff at, I also cant change my race.

Ive considered operative because the 3+ attacks a turn seem really neat if I were to spend a feat on multiweapon fighting and went for 2 of the strongest small arms on the market, and a sniper rifle to use situationaly or just the start of a fight with debilitating trick so i can inflict statuses on enemies before quick drawing into my small arms for multi attacks if we started closer that preferred to enemies. My skills would stay fairly the same if not end up better and the hacker specialization will keep my hacking utility. However, with the operatives crap bab, i might find i still cant hit and this would all be for not.

If i went soldier, the idea would be go the sharpshoot route, keep a sniper rifle and a long arm, use my level feats to pick up skill synergy, several skill focuses in my core skills that i use like pilot, sneak and computers, get far shot, quick draw and deadly aim, and play basically the same with higher chances to hit and higher damage output hopefully with my outside of combat utility being from my still really decently high skills.

Thank you if you managed to read all of this, i really would appreciate the advice.


Hiruma Kai wrote:

Because I can't keep their names straight. I meant Overcharge (i.e. add 1d6 damage).

Although Overload isn't bad. Collect all the mook laser pistols for grenades. Depends on how your GM handles wealth accounting. Its possibly better in SFS games. But yeah, I'd pick up Overcharge on a sniper first.

Id also like to ask, why the skill unit engineering for the drone? it has 6 int.


Hiruma Kai wrote:
Garrett Larghi wrote:
Here is my idea. Weapon focus longarms, weapon prof long arms, stealth drone with a melee weapon and proficiency, and last the drone feat I mentioned before. You will have to be level 4 but this gives you a +2 to hit if your drone is in melee with the target. It is something and works with your concept.

I'd consider versatile weapon specialization at 3rd to be higher priority than weapon focus.

Also, keep in mind, any drone chassis can be a stealth drone as long as you pick Stealth as a skill unit and grab reactive camouflage. At mid to high levels, a Hover drone with the right mods will probably serve you better. You can also use any skill ranks you have through the drone as well when actively controlling it, so even it doesn't have computers or engineering, at 1st level, you do. On the other hand, you're going to need manipulator arms to be able to do engineering checks remotely (as well as carry a computer hacking kit plus commlink - a gear clamp might be your friend in this case on your drone to free up a manipulator arm).

The issue with a melee stealth drone is the lack of strength. 12 strength from levels 1-20 is going to mean a very poor to-hit bonus, and no bonus damage. Melee drones really need to be built off the combat drone chassis.

For an Android "sniper" build and a ranged stealth/hacker drone, I'd probably do something like:
Str 11/Dex 16/Con 10/Int 18/Wis 10/Cha 8

1) Weapon Prof: Longarm
2) Repair Drone
3) Versatile Weapon specialization
4) Overload weapon
5) Weapon focus: Longarms
6) Visual Data Processor
7) Far Shot

1st level Drone: Stealth Drone
Skill Unit: Engineering
Mod: Weapon Proficiency Small Arms
Feat: Weapon Focus: Small Arms

3rd level Drone: Stealth Drone
Skill Unit: Engineering
Mod: Weapon Proficiency Small Arms, Manipulator Arms
Feat: Weapon Focus: Small Arms, Weapon Specialization: Small arms

7th level Drone: Stealth Drone
Skill Unit: Engineering
Mods: Weapon Prof: Small Arms, Weapon Prof:...

Ok i have to ask....why overload weapon and not "overcharge"? Why would i use my gun as a grenade?


Hiruma Kai wrote:
Garrett Larghi wrote:
Here is my idea. Weapon focus longarms, weapon prof long arms, stealth drone with a melee weapon and proficiency, and last the drone feat I mentioned before. You will have to be level 4 but this gives you a +2 to hit if your drone is in melee with the target. It is something and works with your concept.

I'd consider versatile weapon specialization at 3rd to be higher priority than weapon focus.

Also, keep in mind, any drone chassis can be a stealth drone as long as you pick Stealth as a skill unit and grab reactive camouflage. At mid to high levels, a Hover drone with the right mods will probably serve you better. You can also use any skill ranks you have through the drone as well when actively controlling it, so even it doesn't have computers or engineering, at 1st level, you do. On the other hand, you're going to need manipulator arms to be able to do engineering checks remotely (as well as carry a computer hacking kit plus commlink - a gear clamp might be your friend in this case on your drone to free up a manipulator arm).

The issue with a melee stealth drone is the lack of strength. 12 strength from levels 1-20 is going to mean a very poor to-hit bonus, and no bonus damage. Melee drones really need to be built off the combat drone chassis.

For an Android "sniper" build and a ranged stealth/hacker drone, I'd probably do something like:
Str 11/Dex 16/Con 10/Int 18/Wis 10/Cha 8

1) Weapon Prof: Longarm
2) Repair Drone
3) Versatile Weapon specialization
4) Overload weapon
5) Weapon focus: Longarms
6) Visual Data Processor
7) Far Shot

1st level Drone: Stealth Drone
Skill Unit: Engineering
Mod: Weapon Proficiency Small Arms
Feat: Weapon Focus: Small Arms

3rd level Drone: Stealth Drone
Skill Unit: Engineering
Mod: Weapon Proficiency Small Arms, Manipulator Arms
Feat: Weapon Focus: Small Arms, Weapon Specialization: Small arms

7th level Drone: Stealth Drone
Skill Unit: Engineering
Mods: Weapon Prof: Small Arms, Weapon Prof:...

This has probably been the most useful reply thus far. I appreciate the suggestions from everyone as I really have no interest in exocortex and just trying to convince me to go that route isn't helping anyone. However since I can hack and use skill checks through my drone, I was under the impression (so was my group and gm) that I only needed manipulator arms and a tool arm for my drone to allow me to hack through it.


Im playing an android mechanic with a stealth drone so that I can use the drone mostly for utility and poor my feats into amplifying the damage and viability of my longarm. I dont have any intention of switching out the stealth drone for the exocortex, what kind of feats and mechanic abilities will help me most with damage output?


Xenocrat wrote:

By definition optimized means making the best or most powerful choice, so no. I guess you can optimize given the constraint that you don't have an exocortex, but that just means max dex, weapon focus, specialization, and proficiency feats so you're minimally competent. You'll still be behind every other class that takes these typical "I want to be competent in combat" decisions and also has higher BAB and/or class abilities that enhance accuracy.

You'll won't be any more lame than a mystic, except you won't have Mind Thrust to fall back on.

So what because I didn't opt unto having full bab I just can't be helpful in combat? Overcharged for example can't help?


Garrett Larghi wrote:

There is a feat that can give your allies a +1 to hit enemies within melee threat of you (or your drone). Prerec is bab+4.

I tend to agree about the longarms vs snipers. Price, damage and unweildy are all small reasons to do longarms.

Is there any way to make myself optimized with long arms while having a stealth drone? If it isn't obvious, I really don't care for the exocortex and want to keep the drone.


Xenocrat wrote:

Your campaign may vary, but most things worth hacking are behind security. R2D2 doesn't just stroll up to the stormtroopers guarding a door and casually hack it open without interference - he does it while they're shooting at his friends or after they're dead. I also don't like the long-term odds of skill checks without insight bonuses that I don't think drones can get.

Your utility to your party is fine, mechanics have plenty of combat options from class abilities and tricks, and good skills for bypassing security features, including while under fire if you use your exocortex remote hack.

I vaguely get what you mean but i still cant say i really agree. R2D2 is fairly different from the drone, as the drone and my character would both be doing something different, im giving cover fire if my drone is hacking, so none one has to be dead yet to use that, sure it doesnt hack as well as i do, however, it can do its own thing on top of me being part of combat.


Xenocrat wrote:

If you're sniping through your teammates to support them, you need a way to overcome cover bonuses that your teammates are providing the enemy. The Plasma Guide series of sniper weapons ignore cover if you take a move action to aim, but they use a lot of charges per shot and may not be optimal from a level/damage perspective at various points.

A better option is a sight/scope to take -2 from cover bonuses (at level 5/6 the laser sight/scope provides a -4), but those work just as well with longarms, and also provide a x4 range increment bonus to longarms. That's all the range you'll need if you're supporting teammates in close combat, and longarms do the same or slightly better damage than snipers plus provide a full attack option.

I'd probably go exocortex and longarms to save on feats, improve accuracy, and just hack things after the enemies are dead. If you stay in the back and use allies for cover you'll be pretty survivable, and you can always pick up those force field mechanic tricks for extra HP.

These are good notes and I appreciate it. Why the drop of the drone though? I understand the boost to bab that the exocortex gives me, but i feel without a drone, my utility to my party drops to practically zero. Hacking everything after everything is already dead is also.....absolutely counter productive as the point of having the drone was to make it the stealthy defuser. It would go ahead of my party, be able to scout, hack defenses, computer systems, etc before my team even went in so that the clean up process is substantially easier.


Hey guys, so I use to play Pathfinder pretty regularly, I am still very new to Starfinder. Im pretty excited to play this and so far have a concept in mind that I want to make a reality. So, im playing an android mechanic. The concept was a long range sniper that sends her stealth drone in with her friends (most or all of which are big solarian or soldiers with lots of bruising power)so that she can use her drone wirelessly to hack things for her friends and make their missions go easier while she sits in the back or as far away as physically possible to attempt to pump damage into targets she can see with a sniper rifle or if it will heed more damage in the long run, a longarms rifle. Im afraid however, that this book is overwelming me a bit and im afraid that I wont be very affective at anything im trying to do. Id like advice for what i can do to get this build going and what drone mods or mechanic tricks and feats I should be taking to make myself more effective.

My stats are int 18, dex 17, cha 8 and everything else is 10. We will be starting at 4th level.


Asmodeus' Advocate wrote:

Hey, Mysterious Stranger is tryin'ta help. He sounds sorta frustrated, so it might have gotten across, but he wouldn't be offering advice if he wasn't trying to help you out. No call to be rude . . .

What I'm getting from him is that he doesn't think that you'll have much fun with your average character, 'cause you won't be any good at combat or skills. If you disagree, well, only way to find out who's right is experimentation. And I wish you the best in it! Here's hoping that you have the most possible happiness per time spent gaming for the rest of your days!

Unlike Mysterious Stranger, I'm not trying to help. Getting that out of the way right now. I'm just flapping my gums. Don't expect anything useful out of me . . .

ViConstantine wrote:
Did you know, if you read the core rule book, under character creation, it says that "10" is average?

And it isn't coincidence either. Not only is it average, as in typical, it's also average in the sense that it's the mathematical mean. Well, almost. Ten isn't the average. Ten and a half is. Hence why neither ten nor eleven give you an ability score modifier; they're the baseline.

But ten is not merely the mean. It is also the median and mode. If you roll 3d6 for your stat, like le gamers of yore, ten and eleven are the most common stats rolled. There's more combinations of the three six sided cubes that add up to ten or eleven than there are combinations that add up to any other numbers.

Interesting, no? We say that 10.5 is an average roll on a 20 sided die, but it certainly isn't the most commonly rolled number. But average stats are actually more common than the other numbers.

That said, the average person, by which I here mean the most common person, the mode array, does not have three tens and three elevens for their stats. There are only 57 combinations of the dice that add up to a single ten or an eleven, out of 216 possibilities.

The odds of your thief having nothing but tens for her base stats, if she...

I kinda get what you mean, it did seem like he was trying to help but his kind of help isnt what i was looking for. I see what he was getting at, I just dont care. And, i hate that im not tactful enough to know how to say that and it not come off as rude, i just simply have no interest in playing another standard mid max character when i think its far interesting to start with basically no bonuses from my biggest bonus providers and to instead work with my skills, class abilities and etc to help me roleplay and explore a character concept that I wouldnt ever have any interest in if I hadnt mid maxed most of my other characters in the past to hell and back. I do appreciate all input but if its anything to do with telling me "This is a bad idea" or "this is kind of dumb/unoptimal" it only makes me want to do it THAT much more. It means it goes against the norm so badly that people are actually trying to stop me from doing it and for some reason that just gets me more excited to try it and see if its fun or not! Personally I always have characters on back up so if this one dies its not an issue and I can always roll up a new one :)


Irontruth wrote:

You want something to do in combat. Look at ways to improve your teammates, or hinder foes so that teammates have an easier time. Maybe focus on Dirty Trick.

Combat can eat a lot of time during a session, don't build a character that has nothing to do during that time.

Also, roleplaying that your a helpless little thief is actually just as good as actually being helpless. I've roleplaying multiple characters who present significantly different from their actions, but people remember how I roleplay them more than what actually happened.

A dwarf barbarian who wanted to be the greatest thief to ever live. He talked up a big game, but when the chips were down he helped a widow and her son recover their family home. He CLAIMED he was doing it for personal reasons, but he got no reward. He talked about how he was only in it for himself, but he carried an unconscious party member through three water-filled tunnels, doing heal checks at each break to stop him from dying (they were long enough the paladin would start drowning before the end).

The thing is, my fellow players remember more about how he TALKED than he acted.

You don't have to be a normal commoner. You just have to act as if you were, and if you sell it well enough, your fellow players will remember you that way.

Really, if you want to sell being "not an adventurer", instead of saying "oh look, zombies...." in a bored tone, scream it like a terrified peasant "OH LOOK!!! ZOMBIES!!!!" Be amazed at all the cool things your fellow party members can do. "Holy crap, you can literally create food and water out of nothing? My dad had to farm from sun up, to sun down to put food on our table. This is amazing."

Maybe you have a point, if that were the case, what if i did decide to use point arrangement for npcs rather than flat 10ns?


Mysterious Stranger wrote:

Unless you are starting out at high level you simply do not have enough feats and skill points to be able to make an effective character without any stats.

Assuming you go human that gives you only two feats at first level. If you chose the alternative human trait focused study you will eventually get two extra skill focus. Put your initial skill focus to perception and choose your alertness as your other feat. This will give you a +9 Perception, and a +6 sense motive. You will also have 7 other skills at +4. That and a +2 reflex save is all you will have.

Take the same character but have a DEX of 16 and all other stats at 12. This character has a +10 perception +7 sense motive. It also has +8 in disable device, +7 stealth and sleight of hand, 4 other skills at +5, 4 skills at +3 and 5 skills at +1.

A low level character relies more on stats than on class abilities. Until you reach about 4th or 5th level you need stats to survive.

I understand perfectly what you are trying to do, but it will not work. You are not playing a regular person you are playing someone below average. The basic NPC array is 13,12, 11, 10, 9, 8 before racial adjustments. Your character is below that.

I have 3 things to note. They arent combat effective. Im totally aware of that. Im hiding behind 3 people with regular to epic point buy. Im NOT in the fray, a battle begins? They roll initiative? I roll to hide or to run. She isnt a combatant. You know how you survive? You dont get into trouble. This isnt my first character with really poor stats, technicaly i had a character with 4 negatives and 2 above averages once because of a crazy roll system we used, they lived to 6th level.

Did you know, if you read the core rule book, under character creation, it says that "10" is average?

Say i did decide instead to use a character with npc stats. On Point by the difference between what you suggested and flat 10s before race bonus is 3 points......3....

Whats the worst thing that happens? She dies? Who cares. She isnt made to be some sneak attack crit machine, she is just a fun little thief that is suppose to tag along to a party of bad asses, doing neat little skill stuff outside of combat and role play, maybe there are some minor mobs or goblins attacking a caravan outside of town, oh man no issue, ive got a dagger and some sneak attack dice! Dude its fine. No way to dissuade me into not playing it. It sounded like fun, i like to have fun.


Avoron wrote:

Rather than trying to dissuade you, I'm going to assume you're set on this idea and go ahead and recommend the phantom thief rogue archetype. It basically gives up the whole "combat" thing to become even more versatile with skills, and I would normally never even think about recommending it, but it really is extraordinarily ordinary.

You lose sneak attack altogether, but in return you get plenty of skill bonuses, a whole bunch of skill unlocks, and literally every class skill in the game except Fly. You also gain the ability to take vigilante talents - everyman and feign innocence could be great for the unremarkable demeanor, and picks like social grace, skill familiarity, or ancestral enlightenment could really help with the skill monkey thing.

All in all, you'll have all sorts of chances to shine outside of combat. But once in a while, there will be fights you can't talk your way out of, and you won't want to just stand there unable to help. So how could a character like this contribute in combat? Well, you can provide bonuses to your allies. Aid another would be great for someone who tends to stay out of the limelight, boosted with traits like Adopted (Helpful) and Fools for Friends, and eventually magic items like benevolent armor or a ring of tactical precision. Intimidate is helpful if you invest in it a bit and grab the skill unlock, and you could even put that Bluff skill to use helping your allies' attacks hit with Greater Feint. You can also use your words to help out with feats like Combat Advice, and if you boost your Cha to 13 at 4th level you can qualify for Battle Cry at 5th.

But if you'd rather be skulking in the shadows than cheering from the sidelines, might I suggest chipping in with some alchemical items? I'm not...

this is something i can get behind, though i dont like the idea of totally dropping sneak attack completely. Especially since her stats and such start at base, i never said i didnt plan to slowly increase one of two of them over the course of the game. I even considered going alchemist over rogue so she could be more helpful, my idea was to pump her UMD as much as possible outside of skills so she could aid her party with wands she has stollen over the course of their adventure. I also like the rogue tallent that allows you to make rolls for all knowledge skills that are untrained so she might be a hidden well of knowledge if needed.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:

In all honesty this is not going to work. The problem is that to a low level character stats are too important to completely ignore them. At first level you can put a single point into a skill. That means if it is a class skill you will have a +4 bonus. This may seem like a decent amount but it really is not.

You will have a 20% chance to appraise common goods. But you have a 50% chance to be wildly inaccurate in your appraisal. You are over twice as likely to think a piece of junk is valuable as you are to correctly identify the value of a blanket.

You will have a 25% chance to fail to hear a person walking up behind you that is not using stealth. If the person has a decent stealth roll then your chances are almost nonexistent.

You will have a 20% chance of being able to pick the simplest locks, and have no chance to pick an average lock. You will be 3rd level before you even have a chance to disarm the simplest magical trap.

A better idea would be to distribute your points evenly so you have a +1 to +2 bonuses on all stats but one, and a +3 bonus on one stat. A +2 or +3 bonus may not seem like much but it really changes the odds. Now instead of having being constantly ripped off by merchants you have equal chance to properly identify the loot as to be mistaken, and normally you will at least be in the ball park.

I feel like youre missing the point. The characters failures or success will have a lot to do with maximizing feat use for skills, allotting skill ranks and high rolls. She is ABSOLUTELY REGULAR, thats the point.


Thanks for the input ahead of time. So im pretty use to my friends and I playing strong bad ass adventuring parties where everyone has a niche and sits into it. This one time however, id like to just let the party do its thing and be kind of a skill monkey, but more than that, I want to be completely.....ordinary. I thought it would be fun to build like a 15 year old human girl and give her the unchained rogue class so i can free up a lot of feats id want to use for general skill stuff. The character would be on point buy...kind of? Id spend no points at all so her stats would be flat all the way around except for her plus 2 to one stat. I wanted her to be a thief with general use skills like perception, rogue skills, and things like appraise if possible. How could I make her the best little thief she could be with no extra points until she starts gaining levels? Clearly id want to avoid combat if possible by sneaking or talking so what are your thoughts?


MrCharisma wrote:
ViConstantine wrote:
......You do realize this is a game of pretend with pieces of paper and pencils and little geometric shapes on them with numbers right? Or are you just an a+*%*~#? .....You're really going to sit here and insult...

Honestly ViConstantine, I'd just ignore VoodistMonk.

ViConstantine wrote:
I still find it super weird that the palidan glass isn't mentioned in the special as it's actually a core class unlike the inquisitor and warpriesst..

I think the main reason for that is that Paladins have to be LG. This means not every deity has Paladins, whereas the other classes can all belong to any deity. The rule at the top is something that pertains to ANY deity, so it can't be alignment restricted (not every deity has a DFT, but this rule would have been written with the idea that more deities would get a DFT in the future).

ViConstantine wrote:
I really hate pvp, "you cant play your character because i want to play mine!" Is the personality of an a%&#&~%. If he wants to play an evil character and the gm is cool with it, its not remotely my right to say he cant JUST BECAUSE im playing the opposite.

I'm going to disagree with you here. I think what the other player is doing is stopping you from playing your character, not the other way round. The fact that he asked you what you were making first is what turns this from "sucks for you, get over it" to "He's being a bully". My group had a session 0 for our current campaign, and while a session 0 is usually a good idea, the main reason we did this was specifically to avoid a scenario like the one you've described.

There's a couple of ways you could handle this:
1. Keep playing as you are, it doesn't sound like it's the best but it's something. Eventually you'll probably get strong enough to kill the gunslinger if you want to, but you'd probably have to talk to the group about PVP before you do that.
2. Fight the gunslinger now. The game is dice dependant, so you might win, but there's a good chance...

Honestly...the first option is probably my best option. I really dont want to fight people because i feel like pvp is stupid in a game about fighting mobs and collecting loot, there are very few reasons i can justify murdering a character another player has worked on. I also really dont want to get in my own way of playing with this new group because trust me, where i live its virtually impossible to find a pathfinder group, everyone plays 5e collectively instead and personally......5th edition is a vomit inducing snore fest to me. id rather have a group with 1 dick player than no group at all. That, and ive been sitting on this character concept for a long time and really want to play this character.


VoodistMonk wrote:

I'm going to say it, Paladins have a DUTY to stop children from being thrown into troll caves, even if it's horrendously inconvenient due to the culprit being a party member.

If a Paladin doesn't stop the behavior, you're absolutely right, nobody else in the party is obligated to just because the Paladin failed to act in a time of need.

The boy didn't die. So what? The act, itself, is evil. The outcome is ultimately irrelevant. You witnessed an evil act as a Paladin and did nothing. Oh, sorry, you rolled Diplomacy, or whatever. Preachers don't need swords to talk at evil. You have a sword for when evil doesn't pay attention to diplomatic solutions.

Please don't throw the helpless child into the troll cave.

Grr, I want to. (Or whatever Stryx say to intimidate Paladins)

Oh, ok then, I'm not bound by an oath or anything, so I will do nothing even though I don't agree with what you are doing.

Sounds like he is going to walk all over your spineless code of conduct and he deserves to do it, too, if you let him get away with it.

Iomedae's Paladin code says to never refuse a challenge from an equal, and to suffer death before dishonor. Sounds like you are afraid of the Stryx and would rather live with the dishonor of watching the Stryx throw a child into a troll cave against your will than to face him like an equal.

No amount of gear will make up for not having the spine to fight.

......You do realize this is a game of pretend with pieces of paper and pencils and little geometric shapes on them with numbers right? Or are you just an a@&&!#+? Sure i want to play my character but having a bit of conflicted feelings about starting something with a player at a table in a group ive literally just joined just because of how his character is acting in a game of pretend and what my imaginary character is morally obligated to do, even after talking it out with the player and the rest of the group during the interaction.....You're really going to sit here and insult me and my character because of that? Seriously?


VoodistMonk wrote:

Throwing children in troll caves should always be an issue with a Paladin, and anyone else who isn't evil. It doesn't matter if it's against the law, it's evil and immoral. Anyone pretending to be a good guy should immediately take issue with it.

If you are the only one in the party who was angry with him for doing that, then you are in the wrong party, plain and simple.

At some point you are breaking your code by allowing this evil party to continue their quest without you trying to stop them. Or just be an evil antiPaladin and start throwing kids in caves with the rest of the party. It's your choice.

A Paladin that doesn't stand up to evil is a coward, and no deity wants to be represented by a coward.

Dump holy water on his gun as he sleeps, hit him smite evil to remind him who has god on their side, heal him and do it all again if he doesn't say thank you.

1: I really hate pvp, "you cant play your character because i want to play mine!" Is the personality of an a@$#%!!. If he wants to play an evil character and the gm is cool with it, its not remotely my right to say he cant JUST BECAUSE im playing the opposite. The kid didnt die, we healed him up and sent him home, my character was pissed at him and wont be healing him anytime soon, its easier for me to punish him slowly every time he does something f&@+ed up than it is to be lawful stupid and go "alright, better kill this character" Though honestly as it stands this early in the game, i probably CANT KILL HIM ANYWAY even with smite, he has wings and guns.....i have a sword and smite..... ranged>melee hands down in this game. I cant stay on him if he is flying and i have no ranged weapons or any aptitude with them anyway.

The party isnt evil just because they see something bad being done and dont jump up to stop it. That sounds incredibly stupid.

They 1: Dont want anything to do with conflict between the two heaviest hitters in the party

2: have neutral characters that dont think its their place to do anything about it (though my party members are the ones who healed the boy, not me)

3: ARENT LAWFUL GOOD

or 4: Are just here to play the game and really just want to get on with it past the shenanigans of one dick and the paladin.


VoodistMonk wrote:

The Stryx hating humans to a level of open hostility is good role playing. It's built into that race. So much so that they don't start speaking common unless they have high intelligence and choose it as a bonus language. They really hate people.

Not to say that the gunslinger in your party isn't also kind of a bully, but he is at least accurate.

You should have fought him for dropping the kid. Buy a dagger of Anchoring, stab him in his sleep (he will be fine, it's just a dagger, you can heal him), have a little heart to heart about how evil creatures and Paladins interact.

Im aware the strix hating humans thing is good rp, i get that, but there is a separation between good rp and being a dick.

i feel like stabbing someone in their sleep is pretty dishonorable and would be against my vow to iomadaie. I have spoken to him about it and got nothing but "well if im not openly breaking laws and such it shouldnt be an issue"


MrCharisma wrote:
ViConstantine wrote:
im reading the feat now and im simply baffled, a feat that you dont NEED TO TAKE TO HAVE. Im not sure if thats the intention, im pretty confused to say the least.

So normally people do have to take the feat(s), but a bunch of the gods have favoured-people who can get the benefit(s) of the feat(s) by giving up a certain aspect of their class instead. You still give something up, so there is an opportunity cost, it just happens that this one is perfect for your character.

I should also note that at the top of the page for DIVINE FIGHTING TECHNIQUE it says:

Quote:
Special: A cleric, inquisitor, or warpriest who worships a deity can choose to give up either the first power of one of her domains or a minor blessing benefit to gain access to her god’s divine fighting technique without having to meet the technique’s prerequisites (including the Divine Fighting Technique feat). In addition, a warpriest can give up a major blessing to gain the advanced benefit without meeting its prerequisites.

This part gives another optional replacement for the feat, and it specifically says you don't need the feat to begin with.

If you're worried, show it to your GM and see what (s)he thinks.

I still find it super weird that the palidan glass isn't mentioned in the special as it's actually a core class unlike the inquisitor and warpriesst..


MrCharisma wrote:
ViConstantine wrote:
You WILL NOT sell me on weapon focus so it's safer to not try any further.

Yeah fair enough.

ViConstantine wrote:
However, I want to know more about the "you don't habe to use a feat" fpr the longsword feat. Though I'm afraid I'll never meet the pre-requisites for the better version of the feat..

"Optional Replacement: A paladin of at least 9th level who worships Iomedae can replace a mercy with the following advanced benefit, even if she doesn’t meet the benefit’s prerequisites."

So you don't need the prerequisites =D

(If you want to read from the source, you can find Iomedae and all her info HERE, and you can find the info for Divine Fighting Technique HERE - with every deity's DFT).

Kaboogy wrote:
Just noting that a paladin still needs to take the Divine Fighting Technique feat, even if they give up a mercy to qualify for its benefits.

Nope.

If you read the initial benefit, it says you can take the initial benefit without the prerequisites. Since the initial benefit has no prerequisites, the only possible way to read that is that they don't need the feat to begin with. There are a number of deities with optional replacements that clearly don't include taking the feat. You can look at them here: DIVINE FIGHTING TECHNIQUE.

Then if you read the optional replacement for the advanced benefit you'll notice it's worded in exactly the same way.

I'll note that I COULD be wrong about this, but the language is very clear. The only way I'd be wrong is if the people writing it didn't write it clearly at all, or - more likely - that the paizo team decided it was overpowered and issued an eratta/faq clarifying that it doesn't work the way I think it does. Without a...

im reading the feat now and im simply baffled, a feat that you dont NEED TO TAKE TO HAVE. Im not sure if thats the intention, im pretty confused to say the least.


Kaboogy wrote:
Just noting that a paladin still needs to take the Divine Fighting Technique feat, even if they give up a mercy to qualify for its benefits.

Why do they need to exactly? Ive read through all of them at this point and there seem to only be a handful that are actually worth the consideration to pick up..


shalandar wrote:
MrCharisma wrote:
EDIT: Before it actually comes to PVP, you could just stop offering him healing. I'd probably full-on Role-Play this. If (when) he does something evil (like throw an innocent child into a cave), tell him your "healing services" are off limits until he atones. Again I should say that your first and best method of dealing with this is to talk to the player out-of-game.

I personally LOVE this idea. It plays well with your character and his interacting. No GM can get upset, because your actions are a response to someone else's actions

On another note, have you considered multi classing? I am playing an Oath of Vengeance pally in PFS, and after level 5, I decided to leave paladin...There just wasn't enough in the mid levels to keep me interested.

Personally, I went for 1 level of Brawler...because, well, Martial Flexibility is AMAZING. After that, I went over to Skald since it is also a CHA based class (specifically the Spell Warrior). With Divine Bond to enhance your weapon and then the Skald's Weapon Song, you can save a lot of money enhancing your weapon and spend it other places.

I havnt decided yet if i want to multiclass, i have no idea when this campaign will draw to a close or when our characters will retire as we already started at 5 (which is a bit jarring for me as i usually start at 1st leve) So i dont know, ive considered the idea but there isnt anything i want for this class besides more feats and if that were the case id dip 1 level of fighter. I honestly have no problems with mid levels of paladin or late levels, its just a straight up good class the whole way through to me and i dont feel like im missing out on anything from other classes honestly.


MrCharisma wrote:

I'll do these out of order ...

ViConstantine wrote:
2(Improved Critical): speaking of feats, im not sure how many more im willing to give up, i want to optimize of course but i need a lot of those extra lay on hands to make the build work.

Fair enough. It's mainly worth doing this if you're crit-fishing. Since that's not your main focus, you don't need to specialise this hard. You can always make your weapon Keen with your Divine Bond, it just won't auto-crit with Bless Weapon.

ViConstantine wrote:
4 and 5 (Bracers): Yea, i've heard of these actually, they are both great items though i think i have a preference for Avenging knight as just giving me more smites rather than me needing to convert them from exta lay on hands is cool, plus its cheaper, not to mention more damage, woohoo!

I think you meant 5 and 6? Yeah Oath of Vengeance gets more out of either of these bracers than any other archetype. The Merciful Bracers add a little offence (because Oath of Vengeance), but they're an amazing defensive buff. The Vengeance bracers will be a huge damage buff for you though.

ViConstantine wrote:
3(Iomedae's Divine Fighting Technique): that sounds like a really neat feat, i may consider taking it if i can ever find room in the build, man i wish palies had more feats..

This one's a big one. I'll quote the relevant material here:

Divine Fighting Technique wrote:

The initial benefit of Iomedae's Inspiring Sword only functions during combat.

Iomedae's Inspiring Sword
Source Weapon Master's Handbook pg. 11
Iomedae demonstrates how to turn a longsword into a shining beacon of hope.
Optional Replacement: A paladin who worships Iomedae can replace a mercy with this initial benefit, even if she doesn’t meets its prerequisites.
Initial Benefit: While wielding a longsword, you can perform an impressive display of prowess as a full-round action. All allies within 30 feet who can see your display gain a +2 sacred bonus on attack rolls, saving throws, and
...

First the furious focus thing. You WILL NOT sell me on weapon focus so it's safer to not try any further. I've read so many other forums and posts on this subject already that I'm adamant in my choice, I appreciate it but like I said. I will retrain it when it stops being useful, if that's not me compromising, I really don't know what to tell you. I play almost strictly martial classes because magic is really boring to me so I've had this both feats on a hundred other builds and honestly, you're denied a full attack so much in this game that I get too much out of furious focus not to consider it so heavily. That's my mileage for the feat.

However, I want to know more about the "you don't habe to use a feat" fpr the longsword feat. Though I'm afraid I'll never meet the pre-requisites for the better version of the feat..


MrCharisma wrote:

So a couple of things to help your character:

1. Weapon Focus seems like a garbage feat, but people have done the maths and it (usually) adds more damage than Furious focus, or Weapon Specialisation, or most other feats really (except Power Attack).

2. I'm a big fan of Improved Critical on a Paladin. BLESS WEAPON means you'll auto-confirm crits (against evil characters), so having more critical threats is great. I usually do this with a scimitar/falchion, but it's good on a longsword too.

3. Speaking of Longswords, I'm assuming you're following IOMEDAE. If you are, check out her divine fighting technique. Specifically the fact that Paladins can replace their 9th level mercy with the advanced benefit. You charge in and hit, then you give the entire party +2 to hit for the entire fight.

4. This won't stack with Iomedae's divine fighting technique, but since you're maximizing Lay on Hands, you could spend a feat on REWARD OF GRACE.

5. Since no-one's mentioned them yet, BRACERS OF THE MERCIFUL KNIGHT. This item will either give you 2 extra uses of Lay on Hands per day or 1 extra use of Smite Evil. When you do use LoH you'll get an extra 2d6+4 HP (from Fey Foundling), which is ~+11hp per LoH.

6. Or, as an Alternative to the item above: BRACERS OF THE AVENGING KNIGHT. This will give you 1 extra Smite per day (at levels divisible by 3 you'll get 2 extra Smites per day), and +4 damage bonus from Smite. At level 5 (which I'm assuming is where you are now) you'll get +9 damage, and be able to use Smite 3 times before you start using LoH for Smites. Personally I'm...

1: I think maybe i can compromise here taking this suggestion into account aswell...ok....I really like furious focus and think its great when i know how often im stuck moving around in this game and getting single attacks. So how about this? I take furious focus and when I feel it losing its relevance, i retrain the feat for weapon focus?

2: speaking of feats, im not sure how many more im willing to give up, i want to optimize of course but i need a lot of those extra lay on hands to make the build work.

3: that sounds like a really neat feat, i may consider taking it if i can ever find room in the build, man i wish palies had more feats..

4 and 5: Yea, ive heard of these actually, they are both great items though i think i have a preference for Avenging knight as just giving me more smites rather than me needing to convert them from exta lay on hands is cool, plus its cheaper, not to mention more damage, woohoo!


Lausth wrote:

You know.Churches are real things in golarion.Ask for help.If not you should be able to change your feats for point precise rapid.Add boots of haste and smite damage.You should be able to kill him.

Nobody likes PvP since it intrerupts the game.Killing kids however is where the line is.If you dont want to kill him (you should because you are a paladin) talk to your dm about this.

EDİT:With the right preparation anyone can be killed.We even have a class that revolves around that called wizard.Pick umd if you can or some pots for buffs(mirror image maybe?).Take a brawler dip for flexibility.

There is one thing I forgot to mention.Being a healer or called as one isnt eactly a bad thing.Every party needs healers.

Im aware of what you mean with the heal thing, though, i have built heal bots and had fun with them. What insults me is that he shot a monster that picked me up, I broke out of its grab with a strength check next round and then he said he "saved me" "because youre useful to me, youre my healer" and i just kind of glared at him because i had already mentioned that my build had nothing to do with party healing, if anything, i picked up a wand of clw with 50 charges so that i could throw some healing around after each battle to keep us fresh, my lay on hands are there strictly for my own benefit and to kill things faster.


Lausth wrote:
Would you be interested in some martial flexibility so you can be an archer whenever you want?It would be easier for you to kill him when need arises.Droping kids from 100 feet should be a universal PvP call.

I actually considered getting deadly aim at one point because i really dont like the way he plays. Its very undermining and annoying. He didnt actually KILL the kid so he assured me it was totally fine...but id call that an evil act anyway. I REALLY dont want to fight another player but hes so cocky and his stats are so high that i feel like he is going to be giving me reasons to left and right just to f!*+ with me.


Lausth wrote:

Two attacks does more damage then one attack.It is simple realy.

Your smite adds a ton of attack bonuses.Your weapon focus will add one more.So it will be easier for you to hit with your second bab attack.Your first bab attack should hit most of the time.

That first hit thing is true for a Fighter.Fighters dont have smite.You do.You dont need furious focus.

I get the two attacks rational, but +1 is a waste of a feat. Period. Weapon focus is a garbage feet that isnt useful unless youre planning to go into more feats that use it as a pre-requisite. Or perhaps if you arent willing to ever use another weapon. I prefer my longsword but im not completely against switching up to a newer, better weapon further on in the game. I appreciate the suggestion but i cant see one good enough reason to trade not having a drop on my first attack for power attack...for +1 to all. its not a big enough trade off. Also, i see the note of smite but you realize smite applies to all of my attacks right? So if i make a second attack with power attack.....it gets the detriment yes.....but it also gets the bonus from smite to attack. So it offsets a lot of the detriment.

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