Classes for Nobility / Upper Class Adventurers


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Right now, I'm playing a campaign that will span multiple years and possibly generations, so the GM suggested we think of at least one replacement character that will come in when our current characters retire or are even the children of our current characters.

The setting is more Steampunk/Victorian time period with a Cattlepunk/Western aesthetic and story to it. I'm planning on playing a character who is an anthropologist researching the cities and towns that have popped up throughout the Western Frontier. Her style of anthropology is the kind of judgmental type that bases how favorably the society is viewed based on how close to her society. (Think about Western anthropologists going to South America or Africa and studying the "savage people" there, because they weren't Christian enough.) She's highly educated and either a noble or upper class.

I want to play a class that would fit that aesthetic. I was thinking about possibly Wizard or Alchemist, but I'm not sure what other classes could be possible. The only one I would not want to play is Investigator, since we currently have an Elf Investigator who will live much longer than my Half Elf. Thanks for the help!


I think the iconic Arcanist is an archaeologist which might be an idea, more charismatic that wizards most of the time so works into the high society thing.

I wouldn't go alchemists high society depends on appearances and composure drinking mutagens doesn't blend to well with that.


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Mesmerist... I mean A PERFECTLY NORMAL NPC CLASS ARISTOCRAT.

"Now SIT DOWN AND DRINK YOUR TEA you are under my control. So, you are Mister....Urok Blood Drinker of the Orcish Horde? I think YOU HAVE BEEN QUITE IMPOLITE WITH ALL THIS RUCKUS. you are an insignificant worm. Why don't we calmly SIGN A TREATY you will obey so you can stop all this 'marauding' nonsense".

You will be surprised how civil people will be after having a nice TALK with them.


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Bergerac wrote:

Right now, I'm playing a campaign that will span multiple years and possibly generations, so the GM suggested we think of at least one replacement character that will come in when our current characters retire or are even the children of our current characters.

The setting is more Steampunk/Victorian time period with a Cattlepunk/Western aesthetic and story to it. I'm planning on playing a character who is an anthropologist researching the cities and towns that have popped up throughout the Western Frontier. Her style of anthropology is the kind of judgmental type that bases how favorably the society is viewed based on how close to her society. (Think about Western anthropologists going to South America or Africa and studying the "savage people" there, because they weren't Christian enough.) She's highly educated and either a noble or upper class.

I want to play a class that would fit that aesthetic. I was thinking about possibly Wizard or Alchemist, but I'm not sure what other classes could be possible. The only one I would not want to play is Investigator, since we currently have an Elf Investigator who will live much longer than my Half Elf. Thanks for the help!

You could play an Archaeologist Bard, still a 6 level spellcaster, but you trade out that silly lower class performance for something that gives you luck bonuses to many of your roles, plus some choice rogue abilities such as trap sense, the ability to disarm magical traps (while still getting 1/2 their class level to their Perception and Disable Device, I may add), evasion and uncanny dodge, while still keeping your bardic knowledge, which translates well into a character with a diverse education, leaving you the perfect chassis on which to build your quintessential "GENTLEMAN ADVENTURE" type.

The Exchange

A Mesmerist or Inquisitor could be a good choice!


I think you should look at some of the archetypes in Ultimate Intrigue.

I played a Ranger with the dandy achetype who was a lot cooler than it sounds.


The Phantom Thief archetype for Rogues is pretty good at representing a noble of high education, though it is somewhat lacking on the combat front, what with losing sneak attack for more skill versatility and all.


Malefactor wrote:
Bergerac wrote:

Right now, I'm playing a campaign that will span multiple years and possibly generations, so the GM suggested we think of at least one replacement character that will come in when our current characters retire or are even the children of our current characters.

The setting is more Steampunk/Victorian time period with a Cattlepunk/Western aesthetic and story to it. I'm planning on playing a character who is an anthropologist researching the cities and towns that have popped up throughout the Western Frontier. Her style of anthropology is the kind of judgmental type that bases how favorably the society is viewed based on how close to her society. (Think about Western anthropologists going to South America or Africa and studying the "savage people" there, because they weren't Christian enough.) She's highly educated and either a noble or upper class.

I want to play a class that would fit that aesthetic. I was thinking about possibly Wizard or Alchemist, but I'm not sure what other classes could be possible. The only one I would not want to play is Investigator, since we currently have an Elf Investigator who will live much longer than my Half Elf. Thanks for the help!

You could play an Archaeologist Bard, still a 6 level spellcaster, but you trade out that silly lower class performance for something that gives you luck bonuses to many of your roles, plus some choice rogue abilities such as trap sense, the ability to disarm magical traps (while still getting 1/2 their class level to their Perception and Disable Device, I may add), evasion and uncanny dodge, while still keeping your bardic knowledge, which translates well into a character with a diverse education, leaving you the perfect chassis on which to build your quintessential "GENTLEMAN ADVENTURER " type.

EDIT: Dang spell check, always correcting to words I wasn't meaning to say.


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Vigilante, Noble Scion prestige class, Rich Parents trait. Some mixture of these. Bard also works.


Read the last bit of Words and Philosophy then play a Warder.

Quote:

Lists thirty-eight grips, seven hundred and fifty offensive and eighteen hundred defensive positions, and nearly nine thousand moves essential to sword mastery. The average hack-and-slasher knows one grip, which he uses primarily to keep from dropping his blade. He knows one offensive position, facing his target, and one defensive position, fleeing. Of the multitudinous rhythms and inflections of combat, he knows less than one.

"The ways of the warrior were never meant to be the easiest path. The archetype of the idiot fighter is as solidly ingrained as that of the brilliant wizard and the shrewd thief, but it was not always so. The figure of the philosopher swordsman, the blade-wielding artist are creatures of the past, together with the swordsinger of the Redguards, who was said to be able to create and wield a blade with but the power of his mind. The future of the intelligent blade-wielder looks bleak in comparison to the glories of the past."


The Pathfinder edition of Freeport: The City of Adventure from Green Ronin Publishing includes a 20-level Noble base class. The Noble has many influence-related class abilities, as well as the ability to dabble in different areas of study--diplomacy, military, arcane, religious, criminal, etc.


I want to try the noble fencer swashbuckler for that kind of a character - social panache looks great - but I never had the time. Still, it would not be quite the sort of investigator the OP had in mind.

What about a summoner with an ancestor-like eidolon? Summoners tend to be heavy on charisma, and nothing says lineage like being able to have your great-great-great-grandmother deliver a carriageful of whupass. The steel hound investigator is also a good idea for an anthropologist imo - investigators tend to be resourceful know-it-alls, and the archetype replaces the ignominous poison lore with the much more appropriate knowledge of firearms, these most civilized weapons.

There are a few other archetypes that could make sense in that case, like the archivist bard, the dandy or trophy hunter ranger, the courtly hunter etc, but it depends on just how much you want to focus on science and how much on being able to maneuver in either noble or frontier environments.

The Exchange

Bergerac wrote:

Right now, I'm playing a campaign that will span multiple years and possibly generations, so the GM suggested we think of at least one replacement character that will come in when our current characters retire or are even the children of our current characters.

The setting is more Steampunk/Victorian time period with a Cattlepunk/Western aesthetic and story to it. I'm planning on playing a character who is an anthropologist researching the cities and towns that have popped up throughout the Western Frontier. Her style of anthropology is the kind of judgmental type that bases how favorably the society is viewed based on how close to her society. (Think about Western anthropologists going to South America or Africa and studying the "savage people" there, because they weren't Christian enough.) She's highly educated and either a noble or upper class.

I want to play a class that would fit that aesthetic. I was thinking about possibly Wizard or Alchemist, but I'm not sure what other classes could be possible. The only one I would not want to play is Investigator, since we currently have an Elf Investigator who will live much longer than my Half Elf. Thanks for the help!

I would argue that you can still play absolutely any class you want. Want to be a fighter, well No reason a Noble can't be trained in combat. Want to be a rogue, no reason a Noble can't want to increase his wealth and position through subterfuge and espionage. Want to be even the lowly crude barbarian? Why can't a noble simply be big and strong with a short temper having always gotten his way growing up made him quite spoiled.


Considering medieval nobles mainly fought as heavy cavalry, I am surprised Cavalier and Samurai haven't been mentioned.

But yeah, nobles could be any class.


Glorf Fei-Hung wrote:
Bergerac wrote:

Right now, I'm playing a campaign that will span multiple years and possibly generations, so the GM suggested we think of at least one replacement character that will come in when our current characters retire or are even the children of our current characters.

The setting is more Steampunk/Victorian time period with a Cattlepunk/Western aesthetic and story to it.

I would argue that you can still play absolutely any class you want. Want to be a fighter, well No reason a Noble can't be trained in combat. Want to be a rogue, no reason a Noble can't want to increase his wealth and position through subterfuge and espionage. Want to be even the lowly crude barbarian? Why can't a noble simply be big and strong with a short temper having always gotten his way growing up made him quite spoiled.

Honestly, that depends upon the world. He's specifically discussing "Victorian" (which I take to imply an analog of 19th century England in particular) and there were very definitely things were done and things were not done. In particular, with the "stiff upper lip" British and all that, a nobleman with a short temper would not be accepted in Society, and a nobleman who was involved in subterfuge and espionage would be equally shunned unless he were very careful, first, to keep it a secret, and second, as much as possible, to restrict his subterfuges to "appropriate" targets. Even something as ordinary as keeping a mistress could be grounds for, effectively, banishing a nobleman from Britain altogether (for example, the Marquess of Marchmain, in Brideshead Revisited, has been forced to live in exile in Italy with his mistress).

Similarly, although target shooting and horsemanship were very much upper-class pastimes, actual brawling with fists (or even worse, using melee weapons other than fencing) were extremely vulgar. This site puts it well: "In a time marked by the desire for all things moral and upright, pugilism’s violence, both in the ring and behind the scenes, rumors of thrown fights, and its association with gambling, doomed boxing to be labeled a “a low and demoralizing pursuit,” unfit for the interest of a respectable gentleman."

Adding to that is the fact that the Victorians were immensely sexist, and the proposed character is female.

So my question to Bergerac is : how "Victorian" is this world of yours?


I vaguely remember Samurai were hired hands for nobles not nobles themselves Cavalier might be a good shout.


Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
I vaguely remember Samurai were hired hands for nobles not nobles themselves Cavalier might be a good shout.

You remember incorrectly. Perhaps you are thinking of Ronin, which were Samurai who had lost their masters, and tended to hire themselves out.


Oooo perhaps I am


When you consider the amount of money they handle, adventurers fall pretty much in the upper classes by default.


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
When you consider the amount of money they handle, adventurers fall pretty much in the upper classes by default.

Money and class are not synonymous. Often, they're not even interchangeable. The French, in particular, have given us a whole vocabulary to describe people with money who are definitely not upper class. Parvenu, arriviste, nouveau riche,...

Actually, for most of the history of English, "adventurer" had the same negative connotations as "parvenue" or "nouveau riche," and was almost a brand of shame in Society (note capital letter).


The Shaman wrote:


What about a summoner with an ancestor-like eidolon? Summoners tend to be heavy on charisma, and nothing says lineage like being able to have your great-great-great-grandmother deliver a carriageful of whupass.

Spiritualist would probably represent that better, plus the psychic classes just feel so Victorian.


The spiritualist is very Dickens


Psychic Anthology has a Spiritualist Archetype who can have a ghost animal as its companion, in case you wanted to riff on the whole "Hound of the Baskervilles" thing.


Orfamay Quest wrote:
Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
I vaguely remember Samurai were hired hands for nobles not nobles themselves Cavalier might be a good shout.
You remember incorrectly. Perhaps you are thinking of Ronin, which were Samurai who had lost their masters, and tended to hire themselves out.

it could also be an impression of post sekigahara japan where the long period of peace divided many nobles from the military roots of their feudal positions.

Ergo, the lords had less reason to seek martial arts themselves, and but their retainers still had to have the arts to protect their lords.


I think that's what I'd heard of


Philo Pharynx wrote:
Spiritualist would probably represent that better, plus the psychic classes just feel so Victorian.

To a point, but I wanted a high-charisma class and the one charisma-based spiritualist was a bit of an odd fit conceptually. Still, a spiritualist IS an option.


Orfamay Quest wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
When you consider the amount of money they handle, adventurers fall pretty much in the upper classes by default.

Money and class are not synonymous. Often, they're not even interchangeable. The French, in particular, have given us a whole vocabulary to describe people with money who are definitely not upper class. Parvenu, arriviste, nouveau riche,...

Actually, for most of the history of English, "adventurer" had the same negative connotations as "parvenue" or "nouveau riche," and was almost a brand of shame in Society (note capital letter).

Don't kid yourself. No matter what society you may point to, at any time in history, it was and is always better to be rich than poor. It's only relatively recently that there was any middle ground. And that was true even in France.


Well, certainly. The distinction between old money and new money does not matter to those who don´t have (enough) money.


The Shaman wrote:
Well, certainly. The distinction between old money and new money does not matter to those who don´t have (enough) money.

But it does matter very much to the people who have old money, and those are typically the people who are the arbiters of social status.


Orfamay Quest wrote:
The Shaman wrote:
Well, certainly. The distinction between old money and new money does not matter to those who don´t have (enough) money.

But it does matter very much to the people who have old money, and those are typically the people who are the arbiters of social status.

But not always... The rise of the merchant class and the growing influence of cities and towns pretty much heralded the beginning of the end for the feudal pecking order.

And keep in mind...all those noble house of Europe. Search their roots and at the beginning you'll probably find a barbarian warlord.


Hmm. Victorian society...

Firstly, bards. Make this character someone who attended a bardic college and had a private education and etc. The end result is a dashing, well-educated character who CAN fight if he must (but of course brutish combat is not gentlemanly), with plenty of charm and guile at his command and some useful magics for theatrics or for manipulating others. Bard's solid.

Vigilante is good because you get to pretend to be something you're not in public, then put on the mask and unleash the REAL you.

Swashbuckler makes a lot of sense to me in this context. If you're going to fight - if you HAVE to fight - you must as well make it a proper duel. Touche? (And, of course, you may secretly ENJOY fighting, but never let anyone know that - or if you do, make it sound passionate and elegant.)

Of course, there's also the Wizard and Arcanist. These are bookworms who bring to bear their considerable knowledge of a topic they have studied intensely and would much sooner dispatch you with a wave of their hand than with any of that rough-and-tumble malarkey. You can stand in the back and do a little finger wag and say "STOP this nonsense!" as you cast Hold Person, Mass or Sleep on the enemy. Then follow it up with "That's better." Or make a little quip about your enemies "seeing the light" when you cast Color Spray / Prismatic Spray.

Hmmm. Maybe a Cavalier? You're a gentleman still, but you're a soldier, too: a leader, and while some may look down on your chosen profession, you're proud enough of it because your father and your father's father were officers like yourself. Keep a pistol handy along with a sword and a lance. Your horse comes from a very specific breed, and you're incredibly knowledgeable about history, warfare, and whatever sciences you happen to fancy. (Or be the Esquire archetype and just have a squire instead of a mount.)


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
The Shaman wrote:
Well, certainly. The distinction between old money and new money does not matter to those who don´t have (enough) money.

But it does matter very much to the people who have old money, and those are typically the people who are the arbiters of social status.

But not always... The rise of the merchant class and the growing influence of cities and towns pretty much heralded the beginning of the end for the feudal pecking order.

Yeah, after something like 500 years. Ditto the rise of the merchant class and collapse of the bakufu in feudal Japan, although that only took 300 years.

If you were a wealthy guild merchant in 14th century England, you could look forward to your descendants achieving high social status -- in the 18th and 19th century. In the meantime, you were still a parvenu. Your best hope was to marry your daughter (along with a big dowry) off to the heir of the Duke of Earl, so that at least your grandchildren would be able to attend Eton and Oxford.


Orfamay Quest wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
The Shaman wrote:
Well, certainly. The distinction between old money and new money does not matter to those who don´t have (enough) money.

But it does matter very much to the people who have old money, and those are typically the people who are the arbiters of social status.

But not always... The rise of the merchant class and the growing influence of cities and towns pretty much heralded the beginning of the end for the feudal pecking order.

Yeah, after something like 500 years. Ditto the rise of the merchant class and collapse of the bakufu in feudal Japan, although that only took 300 years.

If you were a wealthy guild merchant in 14th century England, you could look forward to your descendants achieving high social status -- in the 18th and 19th century. In the meantime, you were still a parvenu. Your best hope was to marry your daughter (along with a big dowry) off to the heir of the Duke of Earl, so that at least your grandchildren would be able to attend Eton and Oxford.

You still were a hell of a lot better off than the serfs or free peasants. If your kids could not attend Eton, You could hire a Jesuit monk to teach your children pretty much all that they would have learned there. And a swordsman to teach your sons how to defend themselves. If you ran a banking institution, those nobles would come crawling to you for loans to finance something they needed done.

Has Marx might have said if English were his first language. "Money talks and the world always listens."

But lets get back to the game rules themselves. As a first level adventurer you start with 150 gold pieces to equip yourself. Do you realise how much wealth that is to the common man?


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
The Shaman wrote:
Well, certainly. The distinction between old money and new money does not matter to those who don´t have (enough) money.

But it does matter very much to the people who have old money, and those are typically the people who are the arbiters of social status.

But not always... The rise of the merchant class and the growing influence of cities and towns pretty much heralded the beginning of the end for the feudal pecking order.

Yeah, after something like 500 years. Ditto the rise of the merchant class and collapse of the bakufu in feudal Japan, although that only took 300 years.

If you were a wealthy guild merchant in 14th century England, you could look forward to your descendants achieving high social status -- in the 18th and 19th century. In the meantime, you were still a parvenu. Your best hope was to marry your daughter (along with a big dowry) off to the heir of the Duke of Earl, so that at least your grandchildren would be able to attend Eton and Oxford.

You still were a hell of a lot better off than the serfs or free peasants. If your kids could not attend Eton, You could hire a Jesuit monk to teach your children pretty much all that they would have learned there. And a swordsman to teach your sons how to defend themselves. If you ran a banking institution, those nobles would come crawling to you for loans to finance something they needed done.

Has Marx might have said if English were his first language. "Money talks and the world always listens."

Yeah, English history shows that money was, uhhhh... pretty freaking important. Heck, Extra History wound up doing a piece on the South Sea Bubble which is worth watching if you just want a quick glimpse at one of the most hilarious money scandals in history. Nobles might not have "accepted" someone who was just a rich man who made bank, but that doesn't mean a powerful merchant/banker/etc. would just be ignored.


any of the pc classes and the aristocrat npc class


You could pull a Batman/Bruce Wayne with Vigilante. Or perhaps something more like a Caius/Lord of Kent. Or maybe an Edward "Spoony Bard", as an actual Bard. Bardic Knowledge could be attributed to noble erudition.

Shadow Lodge

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

You still were a hell of a lot better off than the serfs or free peasants. If your kids could not attend Eton, You could hire a Jesuit monk to teach your children pretty much all that they would have learned there. And a swordsman to teach your sons how to defend themselves. If you ran a banking institution, those nobles would come crawling to you for loans to finance something they needed done.

Has Marx might have said if English were his first language. "Money talks and the world always listens."

The thing is, as Orfamay Quest said, in many periods in history that would land you not in the "upper class" of inherited wealth and aristocratic status but in the "merchant class" of people who may have been very wealthy but had to work for it. And those rules about who can go to what schools - or wear a sword, or so forth - are meant to keep the merchants from actually achieving the same social positions as the nobility.

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
But lets get back to the game rules themselves. As a first level adventurer you start with 150 gold pieces to equip yourself. Do you realise how much wealth that is to the common man?

A little over four years of wages/living expenses for an untrained labourer, or about 15 weeks pay for a skilled professional (Profession skill +10). So quite a fortune for the average person, but a professional who saves a quarter of their income could supply a younger child with adventuring gear in a little over a year. The rest of the income will cover an "average" lifestyle for the professional, the adventurer-in-training, and one other dependent.


For the concept you've mentioned, I'd agree with the privately-tutored and posh Bard. (You even get whips! Whippy skippy time!) Rogue could come in too; they are highly trained, after all.

Class generally doesn't block access to class, tho. Now, it would be interesting to explain just why Princess Posh is mucking around as a druid, but it's not entirely inconceivable. The iconic Brawler's a noblewoman, if memory serves. And I'm not going to make any fuss about someone's social status when that person's called 'the Bull' by her coworkers, at least not without more ranks in Diplomacy than I have.

(Speaking of brawlers ... the Marquess of Queensberry Rules for boxing date from 1867. Someone to show those ruffians just how civilised people fight, eh wot?)


I haven't seen this yet myself, but Pathfinder Player Companion: Heroes of the High Court just came out and may help you in your quest.


Since she'd want to be hiding her 'inappropriate behaviour' I'm seconding Vigilante. A cabalist or warlock has the feeling of a Victorian secret society if that matters.

Silver Crusade

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You can reflavor a lots of the classes to fit concepts. One of my favorites is the upper class barbarian. A high-born, egotistical, easily stirred to wrath fellow.

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