Need help with Fighter Idea


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I wanted to go away from typical smash your face fighter or sword and shield fighter. I was thinking of doing a trip/disarm type fighter. Any suggestions on weapons and/or feats? I am debating between spiked chain and guisarme.


You could take the heirloom weapon to pick up the proficiency with the fauchard(1d10/18-20).
A trip build mostly relies on reach and aoo triggering, so a spiked chain is not optimal.

As for feats, take a look at:
Improved Trip, Greater Trip, Tripping Strike and Combat Reflexes.


And Lunge!!!


I think the most fun and reliable maneuver is Dirty Trick. A Lore-Warden with a dip into that half-orc Skulking Slayer rogue does that very well.

Lore Warden 3 / Maneuver Master 1 is a great base for anyone that likes maneuvers. Can go pretty much anywhere you like from that.

Grand Lodge

For more attacks of opportunity, take cambat patrol.


If you REALLY want to be a good Dirty Trick character, look up the orc / half-orc only archetype for the Fighter: The Dirty Fighter.

Note the Speedy Tricks ability. Note that it specifically says "as an attack," not "as an attack action." Whirlwind Attack is an attack. You can AoE Dirty Trick every enemy within 15 feet of you using a whip (though you still provoke attacks of opportunity with it, so that's a danger), or you can use a kusarigama, or you can use a polearm (like a glaive) + spiked armor, or... you get the idea. Whirlwind Attack never mentions you needing to only use one weapon.

Have fun.


My combat maneuvers-focused vanilla fighter in Jade Regent did very well with a buckler and a flail (which gets +2 to disarm). Use the buckler for AC when you're testing the waters and doing maneuvers, switch to swinging with two hands when you're going for a kill.

Depending on what campaign you're in, it may be worthwhile to prioritize the disarm over the trip.

(Like, Jade Regent is loaded with monster who have 15-20/x2 or 19-20/x4 crit ranges, who drop down to 20/x2 once they're reduced to slam attacks. I was so glad I could just disarm those screwheads and not have to worry them critting my party members to death.)

Also, if Pathfinder Society Field Guide is allowed, then you want the PSFG Dueling enchant on your weapon.

It's a fantastic enchant for what it does.


Another fun option:

- Go Rondelero Duelist
- Get the TWF feats
- Use the 5th level Rondelero Duelist ability to replace your off-hand buckler attacks for main-hand falcata attacks
- Flurry with a 19-20/x3 weapon.

It also has some room to go with Disarm and Sunder maneuvers.


Would disarm or trip be better or more effective for the party? I know that I will be playing this character in Reign of Winter and using Pathfinder Society Rules.

Scarab Sages

If it's a high level game, Ustalavic Duelist is good at it. Science of the Blade allows you to Dirty Trick as an attack.


Look at Pin Down (UC) if making a fighter with a polearm.

Silver Crusade

I will Second Combat Patrol. It's a completely different way to build/play.


I think a maneuver specialist wielding a whip with the dueling (Ultimate Equipment) and dueling (PF Field Guide) properties is unbelievable.
It takes a while to get everything on line. You will probably be better off with a pole arm for a while. But a whip has better reach and works with weapon finesse. So you can get the most additional AoO with combat reflexes.
Trip as they close.
Disarm and take the weapon when they get up.
Dirty trick the now weaponless putz.
Then let the barbarian squash the now unthreatening victim.


Dragonslayer0429 wrote:
I wanted to go away from typical smash your face fighter or sword and shield fighter. I was thinking of doing a trip/disarm type fighter. Any suggestions on weapons and/or feats? I am debating between spiked chain and guisarme.

I don't see much value in the Spiked Chain. It's an exotic weapon with no reach that doesn't do all that much damage. You can, however, learn Spiked Chain as an alternate Racial Trait for Half-Orcs, so it might be worth looking into.

Flail also doesn't have reach, but it is both a Trip and a Disarm weapon. It doesn't have reach, but it has another virtue: it's cheap. The chief advantage of using a Tripping weapon when you have a trip build is that if you have a catastrophic roll and you get Tripped by your own Trip attempt, you can elect to drop your Trip Weapon. If it's a big weapon like a Halberd or Guisarme, you'll miss that weapon when it's gone, but if it's a small cheap weapon like a sickle or a Flail, you just shrug your shoulders and pull out another one. Plus, you could wield a Sickle in 1 hand and a Warhammer in the other: you'll be the Soviet Union!

On the subject of cheap tripping weapons, consider the Monk as a Tripping Build. Use a Monk Weapon in your Flurry of Blows, like nunchaku, a Kama, or a Temple Sword, and you can do lots of Tripping with your Flurry of Blows.

Another one to look at is a Magus Archetype called a Scarf Dancer. Bladed Scarves are Disarm and Trip Weapons, and Bladed Scarf Dancers get to do other cool stuff with their Scarves. They can Steal with them. They can give them Reach. They can do ability damage. They are 2 handed weapons normally, but 1 handed in the hands of a Scarf Dancer.

If you are going Guisarme, you might consider the Phalanx Warrior Fighter Archetype. At 3rd level, you can wield any Polearm 1 handed. You might then take Quick Draw so you always have the right tool for the job. Guisarme for Tripping, a Ranseur for Disarming, and a Bec de Corbin to receive Charges. You could use a shield and also have a shield bashing build, Bull Rushing opponents away when they get too close so you can keep tenderizing and skewering them with your reach weapon. You can use Great Cleave with Reach, smashing everyone adjacent to you and Tripping everyone 10' away. Or you might wield a Halberd in 1 hand and a light weapon in the other, take 2 weapon Fighting and go to town. You could develop both Shield Slamming and Tripping: fight with a small, spiked shield in one hand and a Halberd in the other. Pretty badass.

An exotic weapon to consider is the Flying Talon. It doens't do much damage, but it is a light weapon, which means you can use another weapon with it. It is a a Trip Weapon and a Disarm Weapon. It has a reach of 10', but it is not a Reach Weapon, which means you can use it against opponents adjacent to you.

Another one to look at is the Meteor Hammer. It is a Trip Weapon with Reach that can function as a Double Weapon without Reach.

So, Feats to take: Combat Reflexes, Greater Trip, Vicious Stomp (if you develop Unarmed Strikes) and Fury's Fall, of course. Then take a look at the feats The Harder They Fall, and Punishing Kick. Both of these Feats help you get around the size limit on Tripping. The Harder they Fall is a Teamwork Feat that requires some particular teamworky things to make it work right. Punishing Kick works sort of like Stunning Fist, except instead of making your opponents Stunned, you make them Prone. Punishing Kick is not as good as actually Tripping somebody, but it might work where Tripping doesn't. Monks can spend Ki points to get around the Size limits.


Can you TWF with two whips?
Didn't think about how it works but it sounds nasty.


There's nothing wrong with Reach+Trip builds, but you can also build a fun PC around tripping offensively rather than AoOs from movement.

Here's a feat list based on a PC I'm currently running which might be fun for you (just make sure you have a decent Will save!):
Improved Unarmed Strike, Enforcer, Combat Reflexes, Vicious Stomp, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Greater Trip, Power Attack, Hurtful

The PC uses a heavy flail. My typical attack routine is to attempt a Trip. If it works I follow up with a Vicious Stomp and demoralize the foe with Enforcer. That allows me to make a heavy flail attack as a swift action, and I get another one from Greater Trip. At 10th level without Haste that adds up to 3 Power Attacks with the heavy flail and one with an unarmed strike, and the enemy basically gets a -6 to hit me from being prone and demoralized. My PC also carries a buckler with his tail and sometimes uses Combat Expertise. I'd like to add Cruel to the flail when I get the chance.

For flying foes not immune to intimidate I'll often use an unarmed strike followed by the Hurtful attack. Later on I'll have Dirty Tricks too.

I've also used the Disarm maneuver from time to time though I never bothered to take the feats for it. Against prone foes it isn't usually that dangerous, but I mostly use it to take away people's potions anyhow.


Devilkiller wrote:

There's nothing wrong with Reach+Trip builds, but you can also build a fun PC around tripping offensively rather than AoOs from movement.

Here's a feat list based on a PC I'm currently running which might be fun for you (just make sure you have a decent Will save!):
Improved Unarmed Strike, Enforcer, Combat Reflexes, Vicious Stomp, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Greater Trip, Power Attack, Hurtful

The PC uses a heavy flail. My typical attack routine is to attempt a Trip. If it works I follow up with a Vicious Stomp and demoralize the foe with Enforcer. That allows me to make a heavy flail attack as a swift action, and I get another one from Greater Trip. At 10th level without Haste that adds up to 3 Power Attacks with the heavy flail and one with an unarmed strike, and the enemy basically gets a -6 to hit me from being prone and demoralized. My PC also carries a buckler with his tail and sometimes uses Combat Expertise. I'd like to add Cruel to the flail when I get the chance.

For flying foes not immune to intimidate I'll often use an unarmed strike followed by the Hurtful attack. Later on I'll have Dirty Tricks too.

I've also used the Disarm maneuver from time to time though I never bothered to take the feats for it. Against prone foes it isn't usually that dangerous, but I mostly use it to take away people's potions anyhow.

I've never made an Intimidate Build. My instinct would be to take Shatter Defenses and gain Sneak Attack. That would be a very good compliment to your Enforcer and Hurtful. Also, I have had my eye on Rogue Talents like Coax Information, letting you dump Intimidate for Bluff. Then a Mask of Stony Demeanor, a very cheap magic item, would give you a +5 or +10 on your Bluff Check roll which would stand in for your Intimidate roll. I'm not so certain about Hurtful for me, since my builds seem to put a lot of demand on my Swift Action, but nice touch.

Since your and the OP's build is more about Tripping than Intimidating, I don't want to derail the thread more. I just wanted to compliment you on some intriguing ideas.


I just reviewed the rules, and I realized you can't use Coax Information the way said. You can't use Coax Information to substitute Bluff for Intimidate Checks to cause your opponents to be Shaken, only to change their attitude to Friendly outside of combat.

Coax Information is Good, but it's not good for that.


You can dump Intimidate for Bluff if you have the Taunt feat, which is exclusive for Small characters though.


Dragonslayer0429 wrote:
Would disarm or trip be better or more effective for the party? I know that I will be playing this character in Reign of Winter and using Pathfinder Society Rules.

Don't know that AP.

But in general, trip seems to be a bit better especially at low levels. Almost everything can be tripped (even if difficult), but there are a lot of things which fight with tooth and claw so they can't be disarmed.

On the other hand, I think disarming (when it works) is more fun. Especially if you have a rogue/monk/unseen servant to pick up and run away with the dropped mondo weapon of ultimate death.

{shrug}


Cult of Vorg wrote:
I think the most fun and reliable maneuver is Dirty Trick. A Lore-Warden with a dip into that half-orc Skulking Slayer rogue does that very well.

A lot better option is 3 levels of Bounty Hunter Slayer. You can Dirty trick on any attack you could SA on without having to give up any BAB.

Scarab Sages

ElterAgo wrote:
Almost everything can be tripped (even if difficult),

At high level, almost nothing can be tripped. Flight is total immunity to trip, and at high level everything flys. A good portion of the rare things that don't fly are legless, and therefore are also immune to being tripped. Then you have size bonuses to CMD, and bonuses for extra legs.

Unless you are only fighting humanoids without access to 750gp for a potion of flight, trip stops being useful around level 10.


Imbicatus wrote:
ElterAgo wrote:
Almost everything can be tripped (even if difficult),

At high level, almost nothing can be tripped. Flight is total immunity to trip, and at high level everything flys. A good portion of the rare things that don't fly are legless, and therefore are also immune to being tripped. Then you have size bonuses to CMD, and bonuses for extra legs.

Unless you are only fighting humanoids without access to 750gp for a potion of flight, trip stops being useful around level 10.

You missed the part where I said "especially at low levels."

Also, even at higher levels it depends greatly on the AP/campaign/adventure/GM. Most AP's don't actually give everything a potion of fly, even if easily affordable. Most GM's don't have every opponent do that as the first action. Sometimes much of a campaign takes place in a the city. Where most of your opponents will be classed humanoids. Most of whom won't be flying.

By your level 10+ a fighter should have been able to easily add disarming onto the tripping. Probably even some other maneuvers with all those bonus feats. I've had a character at about 15th level still use trip and disarm often enough for me to still consider it useful.

Can anyone use any maneuver all the time on every opponent? No, of course not.

Just at a rough guess, at low levels I would say well over half of the opponents could theoretically be tripped.
At mid-high levels, (it becomes much more campaign dependent) but I would still expect close to half of them to be susceptible to trip or disarm.


The OP will be playing an AP (Reign of Winter), so I'd expect to see a decent mix of monsters. Trip can fall flat (pun intended) in homebrew games if the DM gets tired of Trip and starts giving everything flight. Of course the same can be done in an AP, but then the DM and players all kind of know that the DM has chosen to shut down the PC's ability (rather than the DM fooling him or herself into thinking "monsters with legs who can't fly just don't fit into my story")

Anyhow, dominating a large number of foes from levels 1-10 isn't pointless, and many of the same feats needed for a Trip focused build are useful for supporting other combat maneuvers. Dirty Trick has already been mentioned, but even just having some non-maneuver tricks like Hurtful up your sleeve can help a lot. If you build a Fighter with a decent Will save, Power Attack, and maybe a two-handed weapon you'll have a pretty good framework to contribute in melee even when your maneuvers and tricks won't work. Fighter is a pretty crappy class in some ways, but it does allow you to be versatile and execute very complex plans like the stuff I listed above.

@Scott Wilhelm - I think intimidate combines very well with Trip and debuffing in general (stack up those penalties)


@Devilkiller-it's fair to say that Intimidate stacks with Tripping, and the more debuffs the better. I was just saying that when I think of Intimidating, I think of vertically expanding on Intimidate by making victims Flatfooted, too, which also stacks with Intimidate and Trip, and lets you activate Sneak Attack. If you have enough levels to build up your layer cake of awesome that high, that is.

By the way, what do you think of Cornugeon Smash instead of Enforcer?


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If the OP has any more questions about Trip or other maneuvers perhaps we can get back on topic. I just have a hard time containing my recent enthusiasm for Intimidate.

Extended Intimidate Derail:
If you can get some Sneak Attack flavored whipped cream on top of your Intimidating Sundae I guess that's great though most sources of Sneak Attack cut into the BAB you need to Trip people in the first place (and you might have already taken a -1 cut multiclassing into Monk for feats or styles). The stuff I was proposing also has a very heavy feat load to deal with already.

Cornugon Smash is certainly another viable way to fit in your intimidate checks. If you're going to have Improved Unarmed Strike anyhow (like as a prereq for Vicious Stomp) I prefer Enforcer since the duration on the demoralize is basically "the rest of the foe's life". I guess there is some stuff out there immune to non-lethal damage but not demoralization, but it doesn't seem like you'd probably run across it all that often in a typical game (unless there's something I'm missing). They both seem like solid feats though.

As an aside, I think the demoralize mechanic is pretty cloogy since DMs never seem to have the DC calculated and sometimes balk at sharing the monster's numbers so you can help calculate it. It might be nice if it used something more universal like a Will save.

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