Logged just to say, Great Paladin, not Stupid Legal, there is hope in the PFS if there are some of these around.
And I'd say the exact opposite. "The ends justify the means" is exactly the opposite of what a paladin should believe.
A paladin would sacrifice himself for the greater good, he understands that sometimes someone else must be sacrificed for the greater good and he/she must bear that with great honor.
That's almost the defining difference between Good and Evil.
Good sacrifices self.
Evil 'sacrifices' others.
Asking someone to take one for the team isn't Good, but it's asking them to be Good.
Telling someone 'Well, someone needed to take one for the team. The team decided that was you' is not Good.
Yes, it really depends on where is your North in your morale and how your god will accept that kind of facts. If your god is a L/N Fighting deity, maybe it will say: Hey dude, Good job, they fought bravely and gained the rest of you enough time to defend the city, you keep your powers another day. If you worship a L/G Life-loving it can say: Oh my! What are you doing, you must free her or there won't be more smity smity for ya'.
Every paladin is a world as each paladin is a diferent person.
The choices are good?, bad?, who decides it? We can use our morale standars IRL for it, but are they the best for that fantasy world?
Let the player decide it and the GM be reasonable enough to warn the player if he is doing something questionable.
Logged just to say, Great Paladin, not Stupid Legal, there is hope in the PFS if there are some of these around.
And I'd say the exact opposite. "The ends justify the means" is exactly the opposite of what a paladin should believe.
A paladin would sacrifice himself for the greater good, he understands that sometimes someone else must be sacrificed for the greater good and he/she must bear that with great honor.
What about Furious Weapons? can they go to +11 since it's temporary?
What interaction does it have?
It increases the weapon to +6/+5, losing 1 ability since it then counts as +6/+4?
I'm more worried about the Titan Fighter wielding a Huge Weapon with only a -2 to attack, reduced even further as he advances in levels xD
Ontopic, Aelrynth+1 I agree with him, the main problem that we see is that it's not greatly explained.
Edit: Or 2 light weapons for a +0/+0 Kukriiiiiis
When employing a tower shield in combat, you take a –2 penalty on attack rolls because of the shield's encumbrance.
Not only WITH YOUR OTHER HAND, with everything (shield included)
And you can't attack with it because it's designed to offer cover bonus.
Going ontopic.
I was thinking more about Cover Bonus or something in that line.
The problem is that I don't find the actual Size in feet that it would gain, since it only appears wieght/cost increase.
It can't do VS+FF combo in a decent way. Rage Cycle with LoH is interesting, but not enough rage available...and let's face it. A paladin should be looking for ways to FA, not VS.
Nice idea...not great in practice... and we are talking about a vital strike build, something that it's sub-optimal already xD
Don't derail this please, it's been a nice topic and I don't want it closed thanks to the ACG.
BTW it's not entirely MAD if you go with the 16/14/14/12/10/8
This Array is amazing, one of my favourites.
ATM we have:
Titan Fighter Archetype for the ones who own the suplement.
Oracle/Ranger dip for Lead Blades.
1Barb/1X/4Fighter for VS+FF at 6
If I'm missing something tell me.
Oracle dip for Rage ciclyng at 8
Hor. Walker for Rage ciclyng (and other benefits) at 9
Cord of Stubborn Resolve for Rage ciclyng.
I'll search the topic about FF+Inmunity interaction and edit this with the answer.
Paladin Ragin...that sounds.......Bizarre at least, I'll check just in case but maybe it's too MAD to work with what I have planned.
Yeah, yeah, WP, BR and whatever THINGS that appear in ACG don't interest me in the least. The las thing I saw was the Mutant Fighter, it was so stupid that didn't even make sense.
If you want multiclass...pick 2 classes, not an overpowered mix of two.
But well, that is my opinion, everyone is free to pick them. Not here.
So...You want to hit with a sword, shot with a pistol, be the face of the group and have good skills? You are asking too many things...
Try some Pistolero Gunsliger or Mysterious Stranger
16/14/14/12/10/8 for stat Array (20 points build)
A Holy Gun Paladin can work too.
Nice one the Oracle Dip, it's interesting for a not so min/max build, maybe one along the lines 16/14/14/12/10/8
It can Replace the H.W. and "gain" 1 level
So, it should be:
Barb1/Or1/Fight/4/Or/1/x
Can I use the Wand of Lead Blades without the second level of Oracle?
That would be a WIN-WIN.
Since I'll be a Fighter and don't lose Fast Movement I planed to go in Full Plate and move at 30' and with the help of the "cheap" (2k) armor items (ring/neck) it should have around 20 CA, not that high, but enough for some iteratives.
The Fatigue from Furious Focus is intended for Tireless Rage of Barbarian, it has been clarified that Inmune Trumps All. (Don't make me search the topic again pls)
That's why I hate the ACG, it's the: "easy and dumb guide to multiclass with godly results".
I know I'm reducing my options, but as I said, I'm taking them in account.
It's a PFS character.
I'll need an explanation about Storm giant parentage.
Titan Mauler doesn't work as you think, the "new" titan mauler that allows Large/huge weapons is the Titan Fighter.
I already stated:
"I know VS is weaker than FA."
I'll repeat again.
I want 3 simple things:
VS+FF at 6 only found it posible with lvl 4 fighter at 6 (x2/fighter4)
Rage Ciclyng at 9 (Hor Walker does the trick, other options in consideration "Belt of Stuborn Resolve")
IVS at 11 general feat.
I'm not asking for chargers, full-attackers or other things.
I'm looking for a way to play a character that in his turn does:
-Roll 1 die
Hit? Do X, no rolls.
Miss? Next round I'll try it again.
So I can focus on being the ugly stupid and rude guy that tries to fit in the society without understanding why he can't. He is too stupid to understand that being rude doesn't help.
1st-No Bazooka Version in this topic.
2nd-NO NO NO NO NO NO ACG. I hate this book. You are free to use it, not here.
3rd-Waste of str.
4th-Your build takes too long to be effective.
5th-¿Did I mention that No ACG?, yes I did, but I hate it so much that I'll say it again: NO ACG
Read what I asked:
VS+FF at 6
Rage Ciclyng at 9
IVS at 11
Core, APG, UC/UM, maybe other supplements, ACG BANNED
I rethinked about the Titan Fighter, even if I'm not going to use it (for personal reasons not for being bad) and came to a nice conclusion: It has all my needs (but still won't use it in PFS, don't have that suplement)
Here is the Basic build up to level 6
One Hit Human
Barb1/Ranger1/TF4/HW3/TF3
Basic Array: 16(+2)/10/18/11/7/7
Traits: Not thought about them, Berserker of the society+Fast Drinker?
1.-Power Attack EWP Falcata/Bastard Sword
2.-X
3.-Endurance "BF" Giant Weapons
4.-BF Furious Focus
5.-WEapon Focus
6.-BF-VS Retrain Weapon Focus to FF
After this you enjoy your Large Greatsword or lower your Con to 18 (no+2 racial) for your EWP of choice ^^
7.-??
8.-X
9.-??
10.-X
11.-IVS
At 6(first spike):
+4Str +2Rage -1 Large Greatsword(-2 EWP Size) (we got 3 levels 1 less penalty)+6 BA
Total:
+11 (-2EWP) without equipment bonus, not bad.
Damage: Only Rage
6D6+15 Total 51Dmg 1 attack Satisfied. We did it Guys!!
Now Buffed: Lead Blades+Enlarge (Wand+Potion 1 Round)
GS/Falcata/BS:
+7(str)+6BA+1MW-1/-3Innapropiate
BS+13/(falcata/BS)+11
GS/Falcata 6D6+16>(VS)12D6+16
BS 6D8+16>(VS)12D8+16
Crit:
GS 18D6+32
Falcata 24D6+54
BS 18D6+32
Without TF these numbers go down 1 size:
GS/Falcata 4D6>8D6(VS)+16
BS 4D8>8D8(VS)+16
These are my final results, not bad the TF but I'll go with the "underpowered" Unbreakable Fighter or even a WeaponMaster.
Thank you everyone. I'll open another topic when I decide to try the Bazooka Build previously mentioned I hope everyone finds this useful as I did.
Again, Thanks guys.
They are nice Builds, but as I previously said, my main focus is:
VS+FF at 6, delaying it at 7 is delaying the fun.
Really really interesting the gunslinger option....it's a nice one to check.
Don't like the ACG content, try to remeber that ^^
I'll check if I can build a "Bazooka" Build around 1 shoting things with furious finish with a ranged weapon, that picked my interest ^^
I'll say something about that again.
BTW, since I'm not really interested in rage powers, maybe I can do this to include ranger:
1Barb (12HP)/ranger 1(acces to lead blades wand)/4 fighter/3hor.walk/3X
As I said, I'll say something ^^
Thanks for the inputs everyone, and keep it rolling there are some nice ideas in there.
1 Power Attack
2
3 Furious Focus
4 (Cleave/Pushing Assault) this is a Ranger style feat and you can't use it if you wear heavy armor
5 Endurance, Diehard
6 Vital Strike
7 Lunge
8
9 Improved Critical (nodachi)
10 Devastating Strike
11 Improved Vital Strike
Important stuff: Wand of Lead Blades + spring loaded wrist sheath, Potions of Enlarge Person, nodachi
The idea here is to hit once, really hard, often for a crit. Enlarge + Lead Blades will get that nodachi up to a respectable 3d8. With Lunge added in you shouldn't provoke getting to the enemy and should have the HP to survive. You are also a better Horizon Walker without sacrificing much at all.
I've contemplated filling in ranger levels for Wand of Lead Blades, but it stops me from getting that level 6 VS+FF and Delays it to level 7.
Since it's going to be a PFS Character I want to enjoy that combo the fastest and longest.
Thanks for your input, maybe I can add the ranger levels AFTER Hor. Walk.
About Titan Fighter. It's a nice Arch but I think it's not for me.
Barb2/TF4/HW3/TF3
1.-Power Attack
2.-X
3.-Endurance
4.-BF Furious Focus
5.-
6.-BF-VS
7.-Furious Finish
No EWP, delayed VS+FF. Yes, I can go back and not use the racial change of +2/+2 but I want to use it. SO Titan Fighter discarded for not meeting my prereq.
Good choice overall, but not for this one.
ACG is a book that I don't have in high regards, personal opinion.
As I said the options need to let me use VS+FF at 6, Rage Cicle at 9, IVS at 11.
I'll look into Titan Fighter and see if I pick that Arch over Unbreakable.
But it looks that I can't fit it without another method for Rage Ciclyng.
Unbreakable gives me Endurance(prereq for Hor. Walk.)+Diehard that will be retrained into FF.
If I'm feat starved I'll see if I can manage it.
Mmmm Death Or glory doesn't seem to combine with VS since it's Full-Round
Don't want to go Druid, wanna keep it simple.
The focus in this build is to get VS+FF at 6, rage ciclyng at 9 and IVS at 11.
Titan Fighter sounds "ok" but it's too far from Core/APG/UC
Lunge...this one can be Die-Hard retrained, taking in consideration.
The build could be to have lead blades:
Oh Damn!! I made an awesome mistake...the general feats ar at 1-3-5-7-9.....
So... the Feat chain for lvl 6 VS+FF is:
1.-P.At.
2.-X
3.-EWP
3.-BF Endurance+Diehard
4.-Furious Focus
5.-¿?¿?
6.-BF Vital Strike; Retrain Diehard/lvl 5 feat
7.-+6BA Feat
8.-X
9.-Imp.Crit.
If you find another way to have VS+FF at 6 I'm open.
I thougth in mixing some ranger levels, but...no VS+FF at 6.
And remember ACG is BANNED from my list. Don't want to hear about that.
Rage Ciclyng Furious Finish is appealing.
The weapon damage base die is 2d8.
The peak comes around at lvl 6.
Enlarge bumps the damage from 2d8 to 3d8.
+1 Impact (+3) increases it to 3d8. (4d8 enlarged).
I know VS is worse than full-attack.
But I want to do something more than simply stand and full-attack.
I already have a Barb/alch focused on Natural attacks.
Now I wanted to hit only once a round.
But to do that I need to burn my brain BEFORE playing it so I can roll 1d20 and say: I hit for X
Contemplating to build it around large falcata as another option for EWP.
I'd like help with the feats, open to changes in archetypes for the fighter.
Fighter to take VS at 6 an IVS at 11.
Hor. Walker for Rage ciclyng.
Human for the +2/+2 at cost of the feat/Bonus SP
Try to keep it in Core, APG, UC. I'm open to other sources EXCEPT any ACG-related.
Points buy: 16/16/12/10/10/8
Distribution//mod by race:
Str 12//10
Dex 16//18
Con 12
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 16//18
Skills: 1 Diplomacy
well...Int took a hit, maybe lowering Cha for that
Traits:
Magical Knack (Paladin)/Helpful
Fate's Favored
Alt.Race Traits:
Fleet footed (30' move)
Adaptable Luck
Feats:
Lvl 1: Weapon Finesse/Fey Foundling
I want this one to be a little prick that annoys the monsters, making trips/disarm, provoking AoO with High AC so my mates can move around.
Do you have any feat or chain feats that I should be looking at?
Magical Knack or Helpful?
Magical Knack is useful for a spike power at lvl 4 with the spells.
Helpful is interesting with bodyguard chain feat.
That's all, I'm interested to know what is your insight in this build and some ways to improve or just add some cool things.
My interpretation is that it does add the bonus on any morale bonus.
"A courageous weapon fortifies the wielder's courage and morale in battle. The wielder gains a morale bonus on saving throws against fear equal to the weapon's enhancement bonus. In addition, any morale bonus the wielder gains from any other source is increased by half the weapon's enhancement bonus (minimum 1)."
I think that it's pretty clear.
Like I say, if there is no official statement, go by RAW or talk the RAI in your table, don't try to be the next mesias and make your words the ultimate truth.
Now you can continue twisting the words like lawyers, these are my 2cts.
My interpretation is that it does add the bonus on any morale bonus.
"A courageous weapon fortifies the wielder's courage and morale in battle. The wielder gains a morale bonus on saving throws against fear equal to the weapon's enhancement bonus. In addition, any morale bonus the wielder gains from any other source is increased by half the weapon's enhancement bonus (minimum 1)."
I think that it's pretty clear.
Like I say, if there is no official statement, go by RAW or talk the RAI in your table, don't try to be the next mesias and make your words the ultimate truth.
Now you can continue twisting the words like lawyers, these are my 2cts.
Eficient quiver with 5-6 arrows of each type and enjoy your abundant ammunition ^^
"Once the owner has filled it, the quiver can quickly produce any item she wishes that is within the quiver, as if from a regular quiver or scabbard."
An efficient quiver just holds a ton of arrows. It doesn't duplicate them. The text you quoted just means that you don't have to fumble around in the quiver to find that one specific arrow. You can draw whichever one you want as quickly as you could from a normal quiver.
We are discussing a topic about Abundant ammunition and someone posted about a quiver filled randomly...
So... efficient quiver with abundant ammunition it makes you infinite arrows of the kind you want: Cold iron, silver, adamantite, blunt-headed, slashing, smoke, wistling.... you can have 10 kind of them within an efficient quiver (6/type).
Eficient quiver with 5-6 arrows of each type and enjoy your abundant ammunition ^^
"Once the owner has filled it, the quiver can quickly produce any item she wishes that is within the quiver, as if from a regular quiver or scabbard."
Weapon: Bastard Sword It's the "only legal by rules" to be large and wield it 2handed. Talk with your GM if you want other weapons
And if you pick BS it's a "free feat" since you already have proficiency with all martial as barbarian
Don't pick Jotunrage, it sounds amazing but it's a trap.
You want to rage in every place and being forced to be large while raging is bad. It's size bonus and it doesn't stack that well.
I'll try to make the option I offer more appealing:
Natural attacks can be used in grapples.
They are all primmary (claw/claw/bite/gore) this means you full attack with 4 attacks at full str.
You have two combinations, raging and mutagen, that means more resources.
You can combine them with your weapon: BS/bite/gore adding "free damage"
It makes you look like a Hellspawn.
You can stack Enlarge when you want.
Bonus str is higher:
+4 moral +4 alchemichal +2 size +4/+2 ench (bull's str/belt)
If you mix in Drunken Brute you can drink your potions or prolong your rage drinking ale.
If you continue advancing as alchemist, I recommend min lvl 4 since there is only 1BA lost.
Check my PFS PC as reference: Felaron
Change extra discovery for combat feats if you preffer.
More Natural attacks...more sneak damage from Vivi...
Another trap:
Overhand Chop (Ex)
At 3rd level, when a two-handed fighter makes a single attack (with the attack action or a charge) with a two-handed weapon, he adds double his Strength bonus on damage rolls.
Usefull in charges and nothing else, you lose too many rage powers/discoveries/formulae to achieve that...
1 Stupid tip: Buy a Tower Shield, yes I'm serious, wield it while you advance and once you are in reach for carnage, drop it and start killing ^^.
Easier than that, barb2/alch2
1 barb power attack cleave(BS profiency by GM)
2 alch
3 alch feral mutagen (insert feat) (claw/claw/bite YEAH!!)
4 barb Fiend totem, lesser (gore YEAH!!)
5 xxxx furious focus here you take your first -2 in PA if you hit with your BS, if you are going nat attack route you don't really need it...
continue the way you want after that
at this point you have:
3 nat attacks while mutagen.
1 nat attacks while raging.
4 nat attack combined.
You can even do, BS and 2 secondary nat attack as full attack.
Talk with your GM about his interpretation about Jotun, since it's a homebrew game and he will want to cap the size of your weaapon at some point or say the old, you can't wield it since it's a size too large.
BTW in this PC I reccomend extra rage power/extra discovery feat for an increased madness, so much fun with discoveries/rage powers.
You can go for beast totem route for pounce, beastmorph instead of vivi pounce/utility while mutaged.
You forgot Enlarge Person, increasing your nat attacks to 1d6/1d6/1d8/1d8 -> 1d8/1d8/2d6/2d6 and the Large BS from 1d10(normal)->2d8(large)->3d8(enlarged)
Hope it's helpfull.
Don't go fighter except you want the profiency in armor or you are feat starved.
Full plate armor encumberance, even having half weight your weight capacity is 3/4, so be carefull about that.
I suggest the 16/14/14/12/10/8 array
16-2 str 12+2con 14 dex 8 int 10 wis 14+2 cha
if you don't have a minium str you don't hit and the monsters will ignore you and kill you when you are the only one left. you can even change con-dex if you won't use more than +1 dex modifier 16-2/12/14+2/8/10/14+2
Going halfling allows you to have 16 dex and 12 con (inverted stats with gnome)
Don't drop your will save, that's another suggestion ^^
I've said it, if you only bring here your interpretation it's not enough.
FAQ it, quote some errata, link some develepor/designer, do something, anything besides saying "hey it alters mutagen..." when it's not even clear.
The end for me, have fun.
Because it can be Beastmorph Cognatogen too, StreamOfTheSky statted pretty much everything and as long as you don't provide a valid exemple I'll go by RAW and allow it. Class feature repeated? no, then I allow it, I said it yesterday, quote something, bring some reference do something apart from saying it alters... because that part is in a grey zone so bring in some definite proof like I did with the stacking features.
Too tired right now but let's try it anyway...
I've checked crossblood/wildblood they change/replace both bloodline arcana so... it's a no.
Check Beastmorph and Mindchemist and they don't alter the same class feature.
Beastmorph Mutagen:
At 3rd level, a beastmorph’s mutagen causes him to take on animalistic features—whether those of an animal, a magical beast, an animal-like humanoid (such as a lizardfolk), or a monstrous humanoid. For example, when the beastmorph uses his mutagen, he may gain a furry muzzle and pointed ears like a werewolf, scaly skin like a lizardfolk or sahuagin, or compound eyes and mandibles like a giant insect. The beastmorph also gains his choice of one of the abilities listed in the alter self spell, which persists as long as the mutagen. He may select a different ability each time he creates a mutagen.
Cognatogen:
At 1st level, a mindchemist learns how to create a cognatogen, as per the cognatogen discovery.
This ability replaces the mutagen class ability (a mindchemist cannot create mutagens unless he selects mutagen as a discovery).
I've doublechecked, they replace different class features and in the beastmorph mutagen doesn't say in any part that the mutagen is modified.
It says that after drinking the mutagen you gain new abilties.
As tired as I am right now I don't want to continue arguing this, make your call, FAQ this, quote something relevant or make a proper interpretation, don't even bother to say you're altering it, because after reading it again it's not even clear that you modify the mutagen/cognatogen.
The only thing I have in clear is that they just don't replace any class feature in common.
If it's only that, then it's allowed, so... tomorrow I'll check this to see if there are anything new and with some new info. Good night.
The Beastphorm class ability grants the mutagen the ability to take traits from animals, doesn't matter if it's a bramble mutagen, a mind mutagen or a normal mutagen. It adds this effect to the mutagen you usually make.
I knew you would try to do that, but please... continue untill the end
Quote:
alter the same class feature from the core class as another alternate class feature.
Does Beastmorph alter mutagen? No. It's the same mutagen +4+2-2 and now it adds a new effect.
Does Beastmorph alter RageMut? No. It's the same mutagen +6+2-2 and now it adds a new effect. (still can't pick it since other class feature don't stack)
Does Beastmorph alter MindMut?.....
Does Beastmorph alter BramMut?.....
Does Beastmorph alter my opinion?.....
The Beastphorm class ability grants the mutagen the ability to take traits from animals, doesn't matter if it's a bramble mutagen, a mind mutagen or a normal mutagen. It adds this effect to the mutagen you usually make.
I repeat it here, they stack as long as they don't change the same class ability.
Check the table:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist#TOC-Archetypes-Alter nate-Class-Features
Beastmorph and ragechemist don' stack because they change both swift poisoning, beastmorph and minchemist stack because they don't share class ability changes and so on...
Quote:
A character can take more than one archetype and garner additional alternate class features, but none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the core class as another alternate class feature. For example, a paladin could not be both a hospitaler and an undead scourge since they both modify the smite evil class feature and both replace the aura of justice class feature. A paladin could, however, be both an undead scourge and a warrior of the holy light, since none of their new class features replace the same core class feature.