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I was trying not to get into items too much, beyond the dancing whip. There are a lot of kinky items, honestly.
Petty sure 10 minute long unnatural lust is kidna...
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Eidolons are truly open field for getting refluffed. The one closest to my interpretations would be that the eidolon is a facet of the summoner himself. This would put this discussion somewhere between masturbation and "great minds think alike", i.e. If the summoner is kinky, the eidolon likely is as well, and they just happen to like the same things...
As for Cayden's amorous pursuits, he did wake up one morning in a creepy castle full of undead, with a note saying "Sorry, had to leave on urgent business, help yourself to breakfast." and a true horror of a bender. He... Does not talk about this.
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We still have that popcorn? I'm enjoying this discussion.
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We still have that popcorn? I'm enjoying this discussion.
The fact that you're the OP makes this so much better.
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I was in a PbP game where a sexual relationship between a Summoner and his Eidolon was heavily implied. I was all red flags at first, but it was surprisingly well handled.The player in question never really shoved it in anyone's face, but used it to impressive creepiness over time.
Some highlights-
The Summoner had some sort of wasting sickness, like the Oracle curse, and it was implied that the Eidolon was slowly draining the him, but was also somehow keeping him alive past the point where he should have been dead. The Summoner would routinely fling himself into danger, and the Eidolon would protect him, heal him with Life Link, and chastise him for his recklessness. They had an fantastically dysfunctional relationship.
It eventually came out in gameplay that he had tried to commit suicide a few times, but the Eidolon had kept him alive, and that neither of them could die unless they both did.
The final bit of nightmare fuel was that this particular kind of Eidolon only ever died when giving birth, in sort of a mother-as-chrysalis birthing, so the Summoner was having sex with the Eidolon in a complicated sort of suicide pact.
The cherry on top was the GM slowly weaving a sub-plot into the game about a Ragnarok- style apocalyptic prophesy. Turned out the "Fenris" of the prophecy was supposed to be a creature spawned of man and monster, who would be able to walk in both worlds and who's very footsteps would open rips to the world of the dead.
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The only classes that aren't on that list are straight martials
Tee-hee! You said "straight"!
They were Aeons in FFX. Eidolons were in FFIV though, and as I recall Rydia created them from her own mind, not simply received them from a place.
Odd, it seemed to share far more in common with Final Fantasy summoning like from FFX. Y'know, the one where Yuna calls out a big beastie to fight the BBEG for a bit, it gets smacked down, she calls another big beastie, etc. I think they might have even been called Eidolons in that (it's been a while since I played).Besides, pokemon trainers 6 different pokemon for different purposes. Everyone knows that! :P
No, Rydia's summons really were actual creatures - she actually had to go meet them before she could summon them in the first place!
They even had their own kingdom down in the depths of the world.
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A Demon Mother's Mask would reveal all, with disturbing implications for a female half elf wild caller
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Headband of seduction.I wasn't talking "overpowered."
I was talking about this perversion.
... Yeah, you don't need a Summoner to start figuring out ways to get kinky with Pathfinder classes.
Any crafter can create an intelligent Dancing weapon, probably a whip
Familiars. Animal Companions. Enough said.
Hold Person freezes the target "in place". Find a partner into that sort of thing...
Unseen Servant. Think about it.
Read the Unnatural Lust spell.
Alchemist. Tentacles. Enough said.
Beast Shape, Monstrous Physique, etc. So thus far we have abilities available to:
Bard, Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Ranger, Sorcerer, Wizard, Alchemist, Cavalier, Inquisitor, Magus, Oracle, Witch, Antipaladin, Samurai, Arcanist, Bloodrager, Hunter, Investigator, Shaman, Skald, Warpriest.
The only classes that aren't on that list are straight martials (Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, Rogue, Gunslinger, Ninja, Brawler, Swashbuckler). Even then, if I scanned through the list of Poisons I could probably find something that would add Rogue and Ninja to the list; same with Barbarians and Rage Powers. That list was entirely off the top of my head, save research to make sure that all the casting classes got access to one of those or had a pet. Or both.
I can do worse with Mythic. The ability that makes illusions real? Think about that one.
Seriously, if you're going to ban Summoners as a class for this, you're probably in trouble.
or the Spectacles of Eros
.
I was trying not to get into items too much, beyond the dancing whip. There are a lot of kinky items, honestly.
hey, you know that recent potion that changes your gender permanently (and doesn't work on/reverse the effects if someone's pregnant)? yeah, that has no save involved.
you could use it with say, a syringe spear and use it on enemies (or just force/trick someone into drinking it).
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I was trying not to get into items too much, beyond the dancing whip. There are a lot of kinky items, honestly.Petty sure 10 minute long unnatural lust is kidna...
Up there.
If you have unnatural lust for more than 4 hours, consult a physicker.
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And here I thought Succubus in a Grapple would never have any competition...
It still doesn't. Yet.
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My wife can't wait to read this entire thing.
If you really insist that the eidolon is a “slave” then all Summoners are slavers by and perhaps the class takes on a darker tone. If you’re really a slaver compelling the eidolon against its will (which I don’t think is at all the case by RAW) I’m still not sure why forcing your slave into sex would be so much worse than forcing it into combat. In combat the eidolon will face pain and fear while it kills people. If sex is worse than killing people it seems like kind of an uptight world.
I don't see what is "uptight" about being traumatized from repeatedly being raped.
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Incidentally, my PFS summoner does have this relationship with his eidolon. Since there are many paradigms regarding the origin and nature of eidolons themselves, I am envisioning an extraplanar entity that gains power by forming a bond with a being from the material world to gain power. She is also tempting him to heresy (he's Chelaxian, she is Chaotic, and I envision her eventually turning into a succubus). I downplay the ooky at the table to strictly PG. If you get the subtext, you get it, if you don't, it's not gross. She appeals to his vanity, he appeals to her as a means to power. Everybody's happy.
The origin paradigm for the eidolon used by my synthesist in the homebrew game is totally different. The eidolon didn't exist until my character called upon a god, who imbued my character with the aspect of a form that would help him survive.
In neither of these paradigms is the master/slave relationship relevant.
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I wouldn't say vanity exactly. Sevilka understands me.She appeals to his vanity, he appeals to her as a means to power. Everybody's happy.
More than you know, pal. *smh*
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If you really insist that the eidolon is a “slave” then all Summoners are slavers by and perhaps the class takes on a darker tone. If you’re really a slaver compelling the eidolon against its will (which I don’t think is at all the case by RAW) I’m still not sure why forcing your slave into sex would be so much worse than forcing it into combat. In combat the eidolon will face pain and fear while it kills people. If sex is worse than killing people it seems like kind of an uptight world.I don't see what is "uptight" about being traumatized from repeatedly being raped.
the eidolon has the ability to refuse to do something if it will just torture the eidolon.
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If you’re afraid of perversion watch out if any player asks about using the Civilized Ghoulishness feat for a PC. Whatever roleplaying rich tale the player tells about why his or her PC is a ghoul seeking to blend into normal human society it will probably all end up with paralyzed victims or “partners” being abused in a graphic manner (50 shades of Dorian Grey)
It seems like a real shame that ghouls are Chaotic Evil while Zon-Kuthon is Lawful Evil. Since Urgathoa is Neutral Evil I guess ghoulish gourmets who appreciate combining sex, murder, and cannibalism might be more comfortable in her church. I once had a minor NPC named Chef Diobari (alt spelling Dyobaree) who was a follower or hers. I’d imagine that it wouldn’t take much magic to preserve food in a can and provide a quick and convenient meal that kids love (or at least tolerate because of the unholy amounts of sugar in the sauce)
I agree that it is probably up to the player to decide if the eidolon "wants it" or not. A player who decides that the eidolon is a tortured soul repeatedly raped by a cruel master might not object to the Evil label (even if he writes LN on his sheet). One who just wants all the right guests at the Magical Tea Party and thinks the eidolon would love the Summoner but gets told his PC is a moral abomination might find it a drag.
@MeanMutton - As much as I'd like to engage in a debate regarding the relative demerits of various crimes ranging from rape to genocide I'm guessing that would violate the community standards even worse than the rest of this discussion. Since I've been joking about prostitution, sexual enslavement, and murder I should probably take a moment to point out that I'm not in favor of practicing these activities in real life even if the satirical glorification of them and resulting moral dissonance can be amusing at times.
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From the description:
The eidolon takes a form shaped by the summoner’s desires.
Part of this discussion comes down to whether the GM/campaign world/etc. considers an eidolon's mind/feelings/psychology as part of this "shaping" process.
I once had a minor NPC named Chef Diobari (alt spelling Dyobaree) who was a follower or hers. I’d imagine that it wouldn’t take much magic to preserve food in a can and provide a quick and convenient meal that kids love (or at least tolerate because of the unholy amounts of sugar in the sauce)
Favorited for sheer hilariousness.
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Just an utterly random observation...
More often than not the assumption is that it is a male summoner, and an eidolon to fit the presumptive 'his' tastes.
Bring on the freaky ladies with size queen tastes! Or like the lady above with the tentacle eidolon, only not so chaste! Or maybe the woman with the snake swarm.
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For some reason, I'm reminded of this.
Robot Chicken is hilarious.
On a completely tangential note:
Okay, let's assume that a summoner can summon an eidolon with the intent of having non-procreative sex with it firmly in-mind.
What happens when the eidolon attempts to grapple a succubus?
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You have to send anyone under the age of 18 out of the room before you roll initiative in that encounter...
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For some reason, I'm reminded of this.Robot Chicken is hilarious.
On a completely tangential note:
Okay, let's assume that a summoner can summon an eidolon with the intent of having non-procreative sex with it firmly in-mind.
What happens when the eidolon attempts to grapple a succubus?
Clearly, research is needed. FOR SCIENCE!
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For some reason, I'm reminded of this.Robot Chicken is hilarious.
On a completely tangential note:
Okay, let's assume that a summoner can summon an eidolon with the intent of having non-procreative sex with it firmly in-mind.
What happens when the eidolon attempts to grapple a succubus?
The Eidolon gets a negative level and has to save vs. Suggestion to avoid getting another and repeating the process of course.
Afterwards the Succubus probably gives the Summoner her Profane Gift for showing her a good time. Or he gets grappled too.
Just for general knowledge, are the other two the Caster-Martial disparity and Roll vs Roleplaying?Whoops. S%$*. I think we're in critical danger of invoking three of the five-or-so Neverending Discussions:
- Fooling around with the eidolon
- Succubus in a grapple
And now,
- Paladins
I think the Caster-Martial disparity and the rogue thing both fit into a "someone starts a thread arguing the generally accepted point that some classes are weaker than others" category.
There's also the Tyrannical GMs versus the Entitled Players arguments, which can take many forms.
The only classes that aren't on that list are straight martials
Speaking of the disparity...
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Whoops. S&!+. I think we're in critical danger of invoking three of the five-or-so Neverending Discussions:
- Fooling around with the eidolon
- Succubus in a grapple
And now,
- Paladins
So I have this game going where the party has done rather colorful history and characters. One of the characters was a human paladin that successfully redeemed a succubus but died in the process. His player made a new character, that paladin's summoner sister whose eidolon is actually her late brother, serving as her guardian angel. The succubus was taken over by another player, after which she started taking paladin and monk levels. That succubus paladin was also in love with the human paladin, which played a part in her redemption. She's still on love with him in his current angelic-eidolon incarnation, but she's also developed feelings for the summoner. Said succubus is really conflicted about it though, and it's resulted in angry outbursts that have required the dead-paladin-angel-eidolon to step in and wrestle one or both of them away from each other. It's never gone too far, but it has resulted in moments where the summoner and eidolon were on fierce disagreement with each other.
That brings me to my next question: Does any of this justify the rogue player drinking the GM's milk?
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That brings me to my next question: Does any of this justify the rogue player drinking the GM's milk?
That's the only worthwhile service a rogue provides in Pathfinder. Probably the only reason the rogue's still alive and well geared too.
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So I have this game going where the party has done rather colorful history and characters. One of the characters was a human paladin that successfully redeemed a succubus but died in the process. His player made a new character, that paladin's summoner sister whose eidolon is actually her late brother, serving as her guardian angel. The succubus was taken over by another player, after which she started taking paladin and monk levels. That succubus paladin was also in love with the human paladin, which played a part in her redemption. She's still on love with him in his current angelic-eidolon incarnation, but she's also developed feelings for the summoner. Said succubus is really conflicted about it though, and it's resulted in angry outbursts that have required the dead-paladin-angel-eidolon to step in and wrestle one or both of them away from each other. It's never gone too far, but it has resulted in moments where the summoner and eidolon were on fierce disagreement with each other.
That brings me to my next question: Does any of this justify the rogue player drinking the GM's milk?
Nothing justifies drinking other people's milk.
This made me think, though, how would soap operas work in Golarion? Disguise Self, Modify Memory, Reincarnate are all staples of a good Soap Opera.
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Unless you were level 18, you are now a wight.
Wrong edition, I'm afraid. That rule ended with 3.5...
(Although, I must admit, lately I am looking a little... *sunglasses* pasty!
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGHHHHHHHH!
*music starts playing*
That this thread has made it to 139 (now 140) posts.
Glorious, isn't it?
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So... I am WIGHT!!! =)
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So... I am WIGHT!!! =)
Would you rather be wight or happy?
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A summoner decided
To bed his eidolon,
But first he sought to get advice
On whether it was wrong.
Some people thought it kinky
And others just plain weird,
Mostly because his eidolon
Had a bushy beard.
In the end it was decided
After much discussion,
That sleeping with his summoned pet
Was worth avoiding rushing.
He spoke to priests, and other folk
Who listened with grave care,
And most of them advised him
To help remove the hair.
He quickly grabbed a razor
And shaved his helpful minion,
Who now instead of that great beard
Sports a new Brazilian.
The summoner still wasn't sure,
If this was true affection,
But always to be safe and sound,
He wears the right protection.
Advice then, for you other folk,
Who see these goings on,
Don't make unfair assumptions,
While he beds his eidolon.
For all you know, she likes it,
And loves him too, right back,
Probably helped because he is,
A wizard in the sack.
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2 evolution points:
The thread gains a new pair of legs.
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So what happens if you have a female Kitsune or Catfolk as a party member, they're in heat, and the Eidolon has the Scent evolution - does the Eidolon get a will save to avoid ravishing your party members, or does it just happen?
Whee, managed to link yet another questionable thread into this one!
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This thread hasn't even hatched yet. Now THIS thread is nearing maturity, being a full 20 pages in length!
<3