Late to the party, haven't looked at the entire thread, but I want a "mimic" class that doesn't do exactly what other classes do, functioning more inverse bards that draw power and inspiration from the rest of the party. Fight alongside the Fighter, assist the skillmonkeys, awaken unexpected magical abilities...
Something not unlike the Final Fantasy Mime/Mimic class.
I may be parsing this differently, but I think what is being requested is not simply analogs of existing items with an Asian Polish, but for specifically themed items of a magical nature that are contextually culturally apt.
Some things, like incense and pearls of power and other things of a miscellaneous nature are certainly appropriate, but going outside of that box gets trickier when one is not completely versed in the cultural more sand particular nuances that give the feel of what one wants to convey.
I am by no means an expert, so making the comparison of the spoon that produces what is described as porridge with the taste and consistency of wet cardboard might be refluffed as a bowl and mallet that can multiply a unit of rice into enough to feed a group, by pounding it into multiplied mochi cakes. If you're running a game where there will be lots of spirits and outsiders, you would be remiss in leaving out ofuda or shimeware if you are planning to include some variation on Shinto. Origami charms are a given, and cultural miscellany abounds from daruma to figurines of power that aren't necessarily combat-related.
Of course, this is assuming that you are focusing in a more Japanese direction. You could end up pulling from Thai lore, Korean, the wealth of Chinese history, take it in a more Vietnamese direction...
I'd really advise hitting up the Dragon Empires books/content, since a lot of the inspiration-drawing has been done for you. And then looking at the materials and cultures from which they were sourced, because there's a ton more to mine.
But that's assuming that such is what you're after, the way I sorta looked for things more akin to how Nyambé handled African-themed materials, items, and props for that style of adventure.
Tone is a valid cause for complaint.
Of course, there's a substantial deficiency of thickness of skin, by my own likely unpopular opinion, but I don't run the joint. I may be able to take as well as I give, but it ain't my house, so if they want to tell me to curb it, until I start running my own place to discuss things I can't really make a big stink about it.
I'll call it like I see it, but accept that the House calls the shots.
90 Year Old Beggar with a Cane wrote:
...the Hell are you? *squints redundantly*
5=Shi Tzu, 6=Frack, 7=Firetruck, 8=Eyes-holes, 9=Muddy Pluckers, 10=Dram it, cause alchemy (or alcohol) solve everything...
93. 101 ways to turn the Prophecy into an entertaining mistranslated Shaggy Dog Story ("What the Nether do you mean the items foretold to prevent the Demon Mother's awakening are the materials for building an oscillating pillar?")
80. 101 shocking monster crushes to inflict on your players
Pardon my pedantic observation, but I think the problem is less realism and where some peoples' verisimilitude is compromised.
Because verisimilitude is tied to peoples' paradigms of what 'fits' and what doesn't.
Which is highly subjective, to be fair, but also subject the strident not-racism that is 'no wuxia/Eastern style action', when they are just fine with, say, the principles of alchemy that touch on Eastern mysticism, or magic based on said region, but not the martial mythos that is just as integral.
While I disagree vehemently with that view, I at least understand it in the same way I understand people being unwilling to parse Gunslingers in their high fantasy.
Jacob Saltband wrote:
It's always been there, but became markedly egregious with 3rd Edition and the removal of the traditional followers and holdings rewards, on top of the miscellaneous quality of life improvements that by and large removed what little restrictions on the cssters were in place and shifted things further with the increase of save or die/save or sick and the more aggressive shift away from blaster casters to Schroedinger's Wizard with the Quantum Spellbook of Inconspicuous Convenience.
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Contrary to my moniker, I'm not going to say 'YER WRONG YOU SCALY THREADLOCK-SUMMONING BASTICH', in part because I, much as you did with my post, agree and disagree on yours.
I too like martials, rather much so in fact! However, the dismissive attitude of most people who come in to kibitz about the disparity threads are not after balance or parity. They are specifically of the mindset that magic is justified as an explanation for Batwizards and Shazamorcerers and the mandate that without magic, martials are nothing. Never mind that with RAW dice rolls, rather than being condemned to the limitations of non-heroic beings, martials should be well and truly capable of pulling off every martial hero of myth and lore's multitudes of abilities, from Cú Chulainn to any of the more fantastic exploits of any of the Authorian knights through even Herakles. And yes, that's even before the approach of Eastern Philosophy and the extrapolations that lead to wuxia.
But people call that cartoony while at the same defending caster shenanigans, which is why I am so very much my name about the matter.
It's not a case of thinking all the threads are necessary either out of an attempt to persuade - it's because there is a literal mental block that people have, a blind spot to the hypocrisy that makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills at their inability to see the juxtaposition of those two ideas and the non-cromulence that accompanies!
I had more to say, but I'll save it for when I get home from the commute.
If people just stopped forcing mundanity on them they'd be just fine.
Even where my tastes aren't everyone else's, it does not require cartoonish, animated, or Oriental methodology to simply let martials, in an already fantastic setting, stop being constrained by the concerns of less exuberant, 'mere' mortals. The sort of things martials survive and endure should have more than just bicep-bulging results. Action hero glint should be in their eyes. Mission Impossible levels of stealthiness and cleverness should exude from the rogue. Monks should NEVER be mundane, from the most Shaolin-expy to the brewers of sacred wine as part of a theological pursuit of enlightenment to the Siddhartha Gautama would-be.
I stand by my supposition that too much of the ingrained martial/caster disparity is revenge-fantasy for nerds. And I say that AS a bloody nerd for Zod's sake.
That being said, give fighters options on the narrative related to feats of either strength or renown, without being constrained to bull-excrement 'realism'. Ditto feats of skill and guile for rogues, while allowing for acts of spontaneous amazingness from the monks. Stop trying to shoehorn them into some box of designated meat targets because you can't keep your RAW-interpretation free of Enforced Mundanity. If you can imagine Casters getting away with all manners of horse manure 'because magic', you should have trouble imagining what it looks like when a martial of suitable heroic stature gives the caster their comeuppance, unless you are that emotionally invested in 'lol caster wins always'.
Though I think a big part is that where people encounter Auto Success with magic, it's treated as the best of all possible results, and I personally think that magic should be the equivalent of taking 10 or 20, while the martial should always be able to get comparable to better results through effort. Magic can certainly work in general for ALL THINGS TO ALL PEOPLE, but I hold that magic works best in tandem with the results of actual physical labor. Thus why masterwork crafting as the chassis for enchanted arms and equipment, and why artisans at their craft are highly sought after for such craftings.
Tim Statler wrote:
Which is specifically awash with the potential for juicily detailed RP, never mind the combat implications.
See, part of me is okay with this, but the pedant in me says 'Look, the Dream World is supposed to be a Psychic thing, if I'm going to get into these head games I want it to be accurate.' If succubus head games can happen without being psychic, why, I'm not even sure if takings things in an occult direction would be worthwhile anymore...
Eh, I'll live.
So aside from a succubus with mesmerist levels, now we have talk of Esoteric Planes, not the least of which is the Plane of Dreams.
Does this mean that a psychic succubus in a grapple can take you into the deepest parts of the Dream World while in direct contact? Or would the experience be wholly in the victim's mind?
I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
I plead the Sturgeon. Even in regards to my observation!
Though in full disclosure, this is usually the alias I go to for disagreement and/or snark. I try not to personally have such a pessimistic view of people in general, but also acknowledge that we are discussing this on the Internet, and that lends itself to a certain flavor of narcissistic absolutism.
Which is why I plead the Sturgeon.
On topic, I am encouraged by this thread and can only agree with the first proposed idea, with myself some forms of "yes it's a game and not the internet, play like you are actually friends" type thing.
For all the realism fetishism going on regarding martials, and farmers who became monsters of power from 'just' swinging a sword...
What the hell do you call those men who basically went to WW2 green Midwestern boys and came back heroes?
Does the process of becoming, say, SEAL team worthy not constitute a prime example of substantial increase of badassery?
FFS, we can abstract hit points but it's too much if a stretch for people to overcome mundaneness by amazing physical effort?
How utterly joyless and beyond pedantic.
Orfamay Quest wrote:
NEEDS MORE MOFUGGING THUMBS.
I have been trying to essentially tell this to people who relish the disparity as some sort of (understandable) nerd power vengeance fantasy.
Martials shouldn't be shackled to mundanity - they should be just as capable of doing the impossible as their finger-wiggling compatriots, just by different means. It doesn't mean shooting lasers from the eyes, but should be not entirely unlike Unchained skills. Shout may be a spell, but I don't see the problem with someone having reached the point of such stupendous badassery that they can yell at an opposing army to lay down their weapons and flee, and a good number will recognize who they face and comply. I'm not even remotely opposed to allowing get the sorts of things that would, if asked "Could a Rock Lee type who is powered by insane levels of training do this allegedly impossible thing?" get a nod and a smile. There is no reason to allow, after a substantial amount of kicking butt and taking names, for a bit of doing the impossible and seeing the invisible to take place.
pH unbalanced wrote:
Confession du moment: I actually vastly prefer oWoD played with GURPS to playing in its own system.