Thanks for the info. It started to look like no def cared about the BR at all.
But if the spells remain mostly blasts and some buffs I can ignore the BR now and just houserule it to work like the first good version.
I really love this class a lot and think the combinations with the bloodrager bloodlines and the eldritch heritage bloodlines can make for some great character concepts.
Human Bloodrager
Destined Bloodline and Stormborn from heritage, which equates to the following link.
Warning this contains scenes of cheesy 80s awesomeness to emphasis just what a bloodrager can be.
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Sorry, I was out sick yesterday and stayed away from the boards.
While we are going to do some tweaking to the spell list, and we are going to take a good hard look at when some bloodline abilities show up, and some of the bloodline spells with a similar eye, I think it is safe to say, that all things considered we are fairly happy with this class, and so are the majority of playtesters.
What you are not going to see some of the defensive abilities or utilities of the bloodrager swapped out for more or quicker spell power more so than he already has. We are not making a class that has the power of the barbarian and the spell power of a sorcerer. We are making a class that finds its rage though its bloodline and has some spellcasting ability. The ability to buff itself in some ways, and to cast offensive spells from time to time when it is opportune to do so. We kept his caster level at the bloodrager level, which is already a boost for his offensive spellcasting. We are not going to give him automatic increases to DC (though he can do so with feats and other options). He has options. They are there for the taking, and we have already seen some interesting options in the playtests.
I hope that helps illuminate where we are sitting with this class.
Then drop his save-based spells. They are all pointless. It's already been shown he effectively will never make them any good. He simply can't get his DCs to a decent level even if he uses all the feats available for that purpose in the game. He doesn't have the native spell level nor enough reason to pump Charisma (e.g. it would hurt him too much since he's a weak caster).
And no one was arguing for the spell power of a Sorcerer. I understand you aren't going to increase his spell power now, but it hurts our feelings to be mischaracterized like that. Sorcerers twist reality like a pretzel. All people proposed for the Spellrager was a little bit better boomboom (and not at a remotely Sorcerer level...
Curious, how exactly is that a Fireball cast by a Bloodrager would be weaker than if it was cast by a Sorcerer of the same level?
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Then drop his save-based spells. They are all pointless. It's already been shown he effectively will never make them any good.
I think we will just keep some, and let the players make their own choices. The final spell list will have plenty of options that don't require saving throws.
And no one was arguing for the spell power of a Sorcerer. I understand you aren't going to increase his spell power now, but it hurts our feelings to be mischaracterized like that.
I wasn't characterizing (or mischaracterizing) anyone. I was just making a statement. I'm sorry if your feelings were hurt.
First, let me just say, I really, really want a tiefling Infernal Bloodrager to benefit from Fiendish Sorcery. Because awesome.
So, on the blasting thing. I'm not looking for a character who fights like a barbarian and casts like a sorcerer. There is absolutely no way a bloodrager can match a sorcerer, who gets higher level and more spells and can actually make some use of metamagic. What I am talking about with automatic DC increases is getting the bloodrager into the neighborhood of a poorly optimized bard when they cast an offensive spell at an opportune time. Even with +3 DC at level 20, they are lagging, but at least they can make small, particularly nerdy monsters cry.
Never could a BR match a Sor at a blasting contest. I look at a BR and see a raging brute who uses casting as a secondary option and not a necessity for combat.
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Curious, how exactly is that a Fireball cast by a Bloodrager would be weaker than if it was cast by a Sorcerer of the same level?Lots of ways. Two main categories.
1. The Sorcerer is going to have a much higher Charisma. Their points from leveling go to Charisma. They'll have better Charisma-boosting gear. They'll start with a higher Charisma. That's an ever-increasing gulf.2. Feats. The Sorcerer has a lot more reason to invest in DC-boosting feats. They don't need melee combat feats. They need boomboom feats. They can afford to take some of those. They also have room for metamagic feats to increase things further.
3. Bit less common, but they can pick up class abilities and other miscellaneous stuff to increase their firepower. Again, they have much more incentive to do this since casting is their main thing.
A lot of that boils down to "The Bloodrager has a lot of other stuff he needs to focus his limited resources on."
Going to have to disagree:
1. No, not really. If a person wants to be more of a blaster BR they'll invest in Cha, given the bonuses you get from Bloodrage this isn't that much of a problem. Basically if you want to be a Smasher who buffs and focuses more on melee or a Blaster who can also melee if it comes down to it.
2. This goes back to point 1, if the BR wants to be more melee they'll invest in more combat oriented feats, if they want their casting to be better they'll invest in spell casting feats. As for Metamagic feats true being a 4th caster does limit what Metamagic FEATS you can take but there is always rods (of all the casters I've played I have never once gone the feat route, always went with the rod so I could take the the other spellcsasting feats), so basically your once again split. Either invest more in your weapon if you want to be more of a smasher, or rods and the like if you want to be more of a blaster.
3. Yes true the Sorcerer version of the bloodlines give them a bonus to spellcasting, but if you want to be more of a blaster I don't see it being that hard to have the BR take the Sorcerer version instead of the BR one, and vice versa.
So in the end it falls down to A. focus on the smashing B. Focus on the Blasting. or C. Go the middle road.
With the exception of the Sorcerer Bloodlines nothing so far has been presented that makes the BR spells any less damaging or ineffective vs. Sorcerer spells of the same level.
Stephen: Would there be any possibility of a 'boomboom' archetype perhaps, that trades some of the martial capability of the Bloodrager for a more spell-focused, 'run in and explode, regardless of personal safety' magical rager?
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Stephen: Would there be any possibility of a 'boomboom' archetype perhaps, that trades some of the martial capability of the Bloodrager for a more spell-focused, 'run in and explode, regardless of personal safety' magical rager?
There are always...possibilities. :)
How does the design team feel about the balance between the different bloodlines? At least in the current playtest version some of the bloodlines just seem to have quite a bit more powerful and/or effective abilities than some of the others. What is your stance on this?
There is still some balancing work to be done. It's something we are fine tuning for the final release.
Also, are you planning on making bloodrager versions of all the other sorcerer bloodlines? (Verdant, Aquatic, Shadow, Serpent, etc.) I really hope so, since that would give the bloodrager some really flavorful new options.
I have no doubt we will be making these bloodlines for the bloodrager. Whether or those will or will not appear in this book is another matter. We only have so many pages to serve a number of masters. Both the bloodrager and the shaman take up a lot of real estate in the book as it is, and expanding their options from those presented in the Advanced Player's Guide and Ultimate Magic immediately may not be the in cards.
I honestly don't know why people are fixated on this class delivering attack/blast spells.
It's a 4 level caster, the sorcerous arcane version of Rangers and Paladins, which don't really get such spells (from Druid/Cleric lists).
(best case might be Sacred Servant with Domain Spells, but that's just one Domain Slot, it's an archetype not standard,
and still very weak in the attack/blast spell department, the CL boost just partially compensates for non-full CL)
As far as archetypes for that sort of thing,
I would say it belongs in a Magus Archetype using Spontaneous Casting and Sorceror Bloodlines. NOT here.
Please give this class an Arcane version of Ranger/Paladin spell lists, i.e. buffs and utility.
I would include Dispel Magic as utility, and it also works well since it functions off of their (full) Caster Level, not DC.
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Sorry, I was out sick yesterday and stayed away from the boards.
While we are going to do some tweaking to the spell list, and we are going to take a good hard look at when some bloodline abilities show up, and some of the bloodline spells with a similar eye, I think it is safe to say, that all things considered we are fairly happy with this class, and so are the majority of playtesters.
What you are not going to see some of the defensive abilities or utilities of the bloodrager swapped out for more or quicker spell power more so than he already has. We are not making a class that has the power of the barbarian and the spell power of a sorcerer. We are making a class that finds its rage though its bloodline and has some spellcasting ability. The ability to buff itself in some ways, and to cast offensive spells from time to time when it is opportune to do so. We kept his caster level at the bloodrager level, which is already a boost for his offensive spellcasting. We are not going to give him automatic increases to DC (though he can do so with feats and other options). He has options. They are there for the taking, and we have already seen some interesting options in the playtests.
I hope that helps illuminate where we are sitting with this class.
I don't think anyone is suggesting the bloodrager have the hitting power of a barbarian and the casting power of a sorcerer. That would be absurd. I've playtested the bloodrager a fair amount (some 10th level combats I posted about, and a low-level PFS character I haven't posted about) and I absolutely agree that it's an effective class... in so much as it plays exactly like a barbarian. I just think it's a shame that it has this unprecedented ability to cast spells during a rage, but zero support or incentive to make anything of that mechanic. Nobody is asking for a power-up. This class hits hard. Unfortunately it hits in nearly an identical way to an ordinary barbarian and does virtually nothing with its spell slots.
I like barbarians. I also really like martial/arcane hybrids. I'm just bummed on a barbarian disguised as a martial/arcane hybrid, especially when the class has so many word-for-word barbarian abilities it could dump in favour of using its spells to cover its defenses. It doesn't surprise me that people are enjoying playing the class, but I have a hard time believing they're enjoying it any way they wouldn't enjoy a regular barbarian.
At the very least I hope you take a good hard look at the early entry summoner spells (and personal spells that could be made early entry without making them available as potions), and consider giving a lot of these options to the bloodrager at earlier than normal spell levels. Even if it ends up with no incentive to cast spells during a rage, it should at least have an incentive to ever cast. Those spells will still be showing up wayyyy later than they would for primary (and even secondary) casters.
I hope this isn't coming across insultingly, because that's not how it's intended. This is just exactly the type of class I normally really love, and I feel like it had one of the strongest first takes of any of the new classes, but I'm really disappointed with its current state and would have guessed this was near the bottom of the pile in terms of "finishedness" of these classes (my opinion of most finished to least finished in order: brawler, swashbuckler, arcanist, slayer, warpriest, skald, bloodrager, shaman, hunter, investigator). It's a bummer to hear the design team considers it more or less finished barring a few minor touch-ups.
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Rysky, they don't have the spells to be a blaster; They don't have the high level spell or the number. Their DC is also really hurt relative to an actual blaster because of said lack of higher level spells.
Focusing on spells is simply not a viable option.
Might as well say a Ranger can be combat healer -- not viable.
Even a Magus would have difficulty as a big blaster (rather than gish) and they have a ton more spells.
What you're saying just wouldn't work. Feel free to demonstrate a build to prove me wrong. Don't be surprised if I come back with a Sorcerer that has higher DCs and does 2-4 times the damage though.
With Higher level spells yes a Sorcerer would do more damage hands down, as it stands if you have the same level classes casting the same level 1-4 spells then no, neither would have a real big advantage over the other. A Sorcerer is a better blaster all around because it is a DEDICATED 1-9 caster whereas the Bloodrager is a HYBRID class with 1-4 spells. I do not want this class to being to compete with a Sorcerer Endgame with spell damage. I am merely stating that there isn't some perceived Deficit with the spells it has.
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With Higher level spells yes a Sorcerer would do more damage hands down, as it stands if you have the same level classes casting the same level 1-4 spells then no, neither would have a real big advantage over the other. A Sorcerer is a better blaster all around because it is a DEDICATED 1-9 caster whereas the Bloodrager is a HYBRID class with 1-4 spells. I do not want this class to being to compete with a Sorcerer Endgame with spell damage. I am merely stating that there isn't some perceived Deficit with the spells it has.If you invest HEAVILY as a BR into dealing damage. You will suck at it. You will be awful. You will do bad damage.
Your melee damage will also be far behind. You will not do well fighting. You will be meh or awful. That's what happens when you take a Sorcerer's stats and items and dump them into a melee character. If you don't QUITE do that, you'll still be bad at both.
You can't combine the two into something decent, the class does not allow that.
So you'll have managed to make a character that's just not good at much of anything. Congrats!
His deficit with spells is quite real. It's not some illusion. As written any attempt to fight against it will end in tears.
Seriously, try making a 10th or 15th level BR whose blasting spells are worth casting outside of very, very rare circumstances.
Actually that is entirely the point of this class.
Right off the bat Bloodrage gives a +4 to Str so you can invest more into Cha, so having an unmodified 12 or 14 Str is perfectly workable, and you can continue to invest into Cha and casting since you gain Improved (+6) and Greater (+8) Bloodrage.
I will post a build later, RPG Superstar has almost immediately devoured my time atm.
"Your in luck scoundrel! Abadar wishes for me to be charitable, so I will be donating this crossbow to your face!"
Lawful Neutral
Human Bloodrager 4 / Warpriest 1
STR: 18
DEX: 16
CON: 12
INT: 8
WIS: 10
CHA: 12
Celestial Bloodline
Blessings (Travel and Protection)
Feats: Catch-Off Guard, Power Attack, Furious Focus, Eschew Materials, Weapon Focus (Light Crossbow), Cleave
Gear: Masterwork light crossbow made of solid gold, masterwork breastplate made of solid gold.
Don't mind me, just having fun making silly character concepts over here.
Daemon and Pestilence would be my vote for other bloodlines Mr. Stephen Radney-MacFarlnad.
Read the flavor text? Seriously, GO READ IT.
Okay:
While many ferocious people can tap into a deep reservoir of rage somewhere in their very being, bloodragers have a more intrinsic power, one that seethes in their blood. Like sorcerers, bloodragers’ blood surges with arcane power. Many of their kin use this power primarily for spellcasting, but bloodragers enter an altered state where their bloodline becomes manifest—rage becomes reality, where the potency of strange ancestral unions and deeds lashes out with supernatural fury with devastating ends. And while in these states, they can as near-instinct cast some arcane spells. Fast, violent, and seemingly unstoppable, the bloodragers’ magic is murder.
Role: Masters of the battlefield, a bloodrager’s bloodline and skill wreaks havoc on his enemies as he unleashes fearful carnage. His place is up front in his enemies’ faces, supplying tremendous martial support with a smattering of arcane casting. Adventurers who travel with a bloodrager learn to stay out of his way.
Doesn't say anything about melting your enemy's faces off with lightning. Granted it doesn't say anything contradicting that either, but your argument isn't as strong as you think.
The current direction of the class is not invalid, though I personally would have preferred a class with more focus on offensive spells. However, I do agree with Drachasor that the best way to go with this direction is to get rid of the offensive spells entirely. Sure you can try to make a Bloodrager who uses spells for offense, but it's a trap. We might disagree on this point, but I'd rather not have the option in the game at all than watch new players pick it and then get frustrated with their characters.
My idea? Make some Bloodrager-exclusive spells that mesh better with their casting style to replace the more traditional options. Here's an example:
Distracting Voices
School Illusion (Figment); Bloodrager 1
Casting Time 1 Standard Action
Components V
Range Personal
Target You
Duration 1 round/level
Saving Throw Will negates (see text); Spell Resistance No
With a roar, illusory voices (the content of which you may choose) emanate from you at a distance of 5 feet/level. Any enemy within this emanation must make a Will save or be distracted by the voices, becoming treated as being flanked so long as they remain in the area. Any enemy within your melee reach takes a -4 penalty on this save. An enemy that successfully saves must make an additional save each round to avoid the effect, but an enemy that fails its save does not receive new saving throws to resist (unless they exit the emanation and then re-enter). Special: If you cast this spell as part of entering a Bloodrage, this spell ends when the bloodrage ends (or when its duration expires, whichever comes first).
"And while in these states, they can as near-instinct cast some arcane spells. Fast, violent, and seemingly unstoppable, the bloodragers’ magic is murder."
Certainly evocative of melting faces with lightning, I think. I mean, it doesn't say...
"And while in these states, they can as near-instinct cast some arcane spells (just not very well unless buffing which they shouldn't be doing while raging anyway). Fast, violent, and seemingly unstoppable, the bloodragers’ magic is murder (not their spells magic, mind you, just their SU magic...their spell magic is kinda rubish at murder)."
I totally understand how you feel this way and I totally agree, but what's wrong with the bloodrage looking more like this?
The passage is contrasting Bloodrager's application of their magic heritage to their Bloodline "Kin" Sorcerors,
with BR's magic being "fast, violent, and murderous", which feels evocative of visceral physical killing.
('magic' is not necessarily even 'spells', all the Su abilities including Blood Rage are 'magic')
So yeah... Not feeling the blast love there.
It doesn't RULE IT OUT, but nothing to suggest blasting/attack spells are central to the concept.
Everything about fundamental design philosophy of 4 spell level casting classes remains.
Meh, in the end it doesn't even matter:
Alchemist? Buff and bash
Eldritch Knight? Buff and bash
Warpriest? Buff and bash
Bard? Buff and bash
Druid? Possible Buff and bash
Ranger? Sometimes Buff and bash
Paladin? Sometimes Buff, always selfheal and bash
Inquisitor? Buff and bash
Magus? Buff use spell damage and bash
and now?
Bloodrager -- with evocative language about death and murder through both mundane and arcane means...
Just another buff and bash.
Just think it would be nice to for once have a 'partial' caster that isn't simply another form of buff and bash.
I was thinking perhaps we would actually get something new.
Now that I'm a bit more cool and less rude I really feel Paizo decided to play it easy and safe on this one instead of really reaching out and rocking the class hard.
It had the potential to really be the most flavorful, awesome class in the book... and instead we get a barely magical barbarian that buffs without any real synergy in its abilities and fluff that doesn't match the action.
The bloodlines do a pretty good job of conveying magical power just sort of bursting forth during the rage, but I don't know if there's a simple way to extend that to the spells. They might just have to be something that sits on top.
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Meh, in the end it doesn't even matter:
Alchemist? Buff and bash
Eldritch Knight? Buff and bash
Warpriest? Buff and bash
Bard? Buff and bash
Druid? Possible Buff and bash
Ranger? Sometimes Buff and bash
Paladin? Sometimes Buff, always selfheal and bash
Inquisitor? Buff and bash
Magus? Buff use spell damage and bash
Summoner? The ultimate expression of Buff'n'bash
Fixed that for you... ;-)
Just think it would be nice to for once have a 'partial' caster that isn't simply another form of buff and bash.
I was thinking perhaps we would actually get something new.
While the theme of the ACG is hybrids of existing classes - supposedly meaning we should never had been hoping for any new inventive combat roles/specializations in the first place - I also actually believed the BR would turn out to be something truly new. In contrast to all of the other classes in the play test, I think the BR had all the potential to break away from the old concepts like buff'n'bash and explore something that hadn't already been done to death (literally) by existing classes. I mean the "barcerer" class combo and bloodrage are conceptually both different and awesome ideas, and the fluff is great, making the BR feel like a class of its own that creates something new and unique by meshing old well-known components. Personally, I also really hoped for a full BAB class in tier 3, filling that rather huge balance void created by the current classes.
But sadly, I have to agree the great qualities of the concept and fluff aren't reflected in the mechanics, which so far also refuse to secure a place for the BR in tier 3. Instead, we get yet another fighter - a class mechanically defined by its melee striker combat role, a focus often not applicable to the situation and its power lacking the flexibility to not be easily circumvented by opponents in higher levels. Just as every other full BAB class in PF so far, unfortunately.
On the bright side, seems there are a few possible tier 3 builds of the current BR which offers both more flexibility and more interesting tactics. Some of the bloodlines allow for quite hilarious niche builds with combat tactics and tricks that simply wouldn't be viable for any other melee class, at least not in higher levels.
Sorry, I was out sick yesterday and stayed away from the boards.
While we are going to do some tweaking to the spell list, and we are going to take a good hard look at when some bloodline abilities show up, and some of the bloodline spells with a similar eye, I think it is safe to say, that all things considered we are fairly happy with this class, and so are the majority of playtesters.
What you are not going to see some of the defensive abilities or utilities of the bloodrager swapped out for more or quicker spell power more so than he already has. We are not making a class that has the power of the barbarian and the spell power of a sorcerer. We are making a class that finds its rage though its bloodline and has some spellcasting ability. The ability to buff itself in some ways, and to cast offensive spells from time to time when it is opportune to do so. We kept his caster level at the bloodrager level, which is already a boost for his offensive spellcasting. We are not going to give him automatic increases to DC (though he can do so with feats and other options). He has options. They are there for the taking, and we have already seen some interesting options in the playtests.
I hope that helps illuminate where we are sitting with this class.
In my opinion the bloodrager needs a few fixes but is by in large solid,
1) uncanny dodge, improved uncanny dodge and DR/-, two out of those three should go or be modified, as things stand those make it a little to similar to a barbarian for my liking. This isnt a power thing so much as a flavor thing. as it stands it feels a bit to much like a gutted barbarian with magic stuffed in. i would like it to feel a bit more like its own thing. just small mechanics that help it stand out a bit. one i might suggest is making anyone hit by a bloodragers melee take a penalty on a save against a bloodrager spell for X turns. just an idea,
2) The spell list and expanding it, you said you are working on it so ill leave it at that
3) rebalance the bloodlines, the gulfs in power are a bit too extream. the infernal bloodline in paticuler.
beyond that i think the class is golden.
I know it probably won't happen, if only because they aren't options for existing sorcerers, but I'd almost like to see some different bloodline options for Bloodragers other than the standards (ie, n place of the standards).
For instance, I could see them getting Linnorm Bloodlines, rather than Draconic. Or Inevitable Bloodlines. Or Qlippoth Bloodlines. Nightshade, anyone?
(And yes, I'm sure Inevitables don't have blood, but how appropriate does an Inevitable Bloodline seem for a Bloodrager?)
As an explanation, it could be referenced as a key feature that results in the distinction between the way a Sorcerer's abilities manifest and the Bloodrager's do- different sorts of bloodline origins manifest differently.
Then drop his save-based spells. They are all pointless. It's already been shown he effectively will never make them any good.I think we will just keep some, and let the players make their own choices. The final spell list will have plenty of options that don't require saving throws.
Stephen, can you tell us why you took away all those cool utility spells the magus list offered? Was the bloodrager too strong with them? Because for me this new list looks like a big downgrade for the class. And I do not understand why it was done.
Contributor
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Stephen, I want to say I like the overall feel of the BR so far. The theme is amazing. The interaction of raging and bloodline powers is really cool. Thanks for coming out to talk to us about this awesome class.
But still, I'm dying to know what you're going to do to make us want to cast spells during rage. A lot of people are already seeing a lack of need for Charisma, at least nothing above 14 by the time you get 4th level spells. And while it's cool to have a class that can cast mid-rage, there's not much reason for it to do so; bloodrage does a bunch for combat but nothing for spellcasting, and at that point you're just wasting rounds of rage. Right now BR's want something like 12 Cha and a handful of buff spells for before running into melee, that's it.
I think the ability to cast spells when you enter greater/might rage was a HUGE step in the right direction, but that still leaves levels 1-11 as Why Bother territory if we can't do it with low level bloodrage.
Sorry, I was out sick yesterday and stayed away from the boards.
While we are going to do some tweaking to the spell list, and we are going to take a good hard look at when some bloodline abilities show up, and some of the bloodline spells with a similar eye, I think it is safe to say, that all things considered we are fairly happy with this class, and so are the majority of playtesters.
This one really does seem to have been knocked out of the park on pretty much the first try, yes.
Still plans to match the sorcerer's variety of bloodlines in the finished book?
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I really want a version of this class without any Focus at all on Buffs/Damage in the spell list.
Just want to put this out there for archetype suggestions; I'd love one that has more open spell access.
I really want a version of this class without any Focus at all on Buffs/Damage in the spell list.
Just want to put this out there for archetype suggestions; I'd love one that has more open spell access.
This is a really good idea. I should have proposed that myself instead of just criticising the new spell list.
I truely hope we get this archetype.
So, this might be an insane idea, and I would not say all of them, but what if they looked at a bunch of spells from the Alchemist list? I think it would be kind of awesome (In the insane way) to see a Bloodrager turn into some monstrosity and vomit up a swarm of Spiders.
That being said I probably ovelrooked the fact that the two already have several spells in common. So oops if it turns out to be the case.
I really want a version of this class without any Focus at all on Buffs/Damage in the spell list.
Just want to put this out there for archetype suggestions; I'd love one that has more open spell access.
This is a really good idea. I should have proposed that myself instead of just criticising the new spell list.
I truely hope we get this archetype.
To me, a bloodrager that can cast Grease or Suggestion or Vomit Swarm or Invisibility is infinitely more interesting than one that can cast Fireball or Bulls Strength.
Barbarians can ALREADY kill things. The last thing they need is more ways to do things.
My whole playgroup has effectively written off the Bloodrager as is, because if they want to play a raging fighter, they dont want to dilute it with spells that add nothing to the barbarian it can't already do. 'more ways to kill things' are massively redundant.
I for one wanted a class that could once per rage heighten D6's to D8's, (or even to D10's!)Or increase save DC's because he was so angry. Change save types because he was so angry. Increase the number of dice rolled because he was so angry.
A guy who could make Detonate the go-to-spell. Hurting myself with AoE is a-okay cause it hurts you too.
Increase the amount of damage based on proximity.
A class ability that would let him deal a natural attack's damage at range. (Because he's so angry).
I wanted a caster that worked out of pure rage. And I wanted that to be reflected in the class abilities.
A true Khornite caster.
I wanted Evocation to be given a second life, and a prime-time spot with this Sith of a caster.
I really want a version of this class without any Focus at all on Buffs/Damage in the spell list.
Just want to put this out there for archetype suggestions; I'd love one that has more open spell access.
This is a really good idea. I should have proposed that myself instead of just criticising the new spell list.
I truely hope we get this archetype.To me, a bloodrager that can cast Grease or Suggestion or Vomit Swarm or Invisibility is infinitely more interesting than one that can cast Fireball or Bulls Strength.
Barbarians can ALREADY kill things. The last thing they need is more ways to do things.
My whole playgroup has effectively written off the Bloodrager as is, because if they want to play a raging fighter, they dont want to dilute it with spells that add nothing to the barbarian it can't already do. 'more ways to kill things' are massively redundant.
Same here.
I would like a pc that can use his martial skill to smash think during combat and to use the spells for utility out of combat and emergencies.I played my BR that way during the first play test, using the magus spell list.
But how do those utility spells fit thematically with the Bloodrager?
not too mention that sounds like a flatout alchemist to me. I wish they would change their minds on making it more blasting friendly. Yes the barbarian already is good at smashing face and so is the bloodrager, but i want to more than just the 2 reasonable options we have(full attack or buff and full attack). I want their actual magic to be murder. Blasting doesn't have to be their best option, but i would like it to be reasonable one. Cest la vie.
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I for one wanted a class that could once per rage heighten D6's to D8's, (or even to D10's!)Or increase save DC's because he was so angry. Change save types because he was so angry. Increase the number of dice rolled because he was so angry.
A guy who could make Detonate the go-to-spell. Hurting myself with AoE is a-okay cause it hurts you too.
Increase the amount of damage based on proximity.
A class ability that would let him deal a natural attack's damage at range. (Because he's so angry).
I wanted a caster that worked out of pure rage. And I wanted that to be reflected in the class abilities.
A true Khornite caster.
I wanted Evocation to be given a second life, and a prime-time spot with this Sith of a caster.
I wanted this class to be more like DreamScarred Press's Wilder and a little less like the Barbarian.
But how do those utility spells fit thematically with the Bloodrager?
You're asking how does someone with a Undead Bloodline (who probably had a lich or vampire in their family line somewhere) justify having Suggestion as a spell? I think it's pretty obvious. The class only gets 4 bonus spells. If you want to go with certain themes you're a bit limited on what all your bloodline can add in as far as spells go.
Bloodrager is an unfortunate name (much like Barbarian is an unfortunate name, but that's an OGL problem). I think it sets the wrong thematic idea for this class.
A Sorcerer and a Bloodrager could very well be brother and sister. They're both from the same Bloodline. One happens to be good at spells and the other is really good at combat in addition to some spells. You're not going to play the Sorcerer as charismatic and dignified and have the Bloodrager be a Barbarian with spells. They're siblings. They're both going to be charismatic. They're both going to be pretty dignified. One just has the ability to boost up their physical powers using their unique gifts.
I think a melee combat Sorcerer is a better theme for the class than a Barbarian with spells. It all just depends on the flavor text and ability names to how you spin it.